Sounds like yet another argument about how PFS is bad rather than the fighter being bad, given that all the rules that improve them are freely available online.
You do realize that those rules were made by people that took time and energy to make, for a living, and that those people would probably like to eat food and not sleep in a ditch right?
You really need to participate in pfs to get to know it: it works much better in practice than it does according to theory. Its really not that different than a home game with a dm. Quit complaining about it at every opportunity.
Quit complaining about it at every opportunity.
No.
The fighter works better in actual play than theory too, doesn't stop people from complaining about it at every opportunity.
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Sounds like yet another argument about how PFS is bad rather than the fighter being bad, given that all the rules that improve them are freely available online.
Yeah, that addresses one point while emphasizing the others. There's nothing in the CRB that says "Head to the Paizo messageboards for a free system mastery course in making these options work" or "go to this unaffiliated website to pillage rules". If you pick up a CRB, the Fighter sucks, and it takes some web skill and familiarity with the broader system to figure out how to fix it. You still have to actually know what the appropriate fighter is called before you can start looking it up and using it.
The fact that someone is hosting their own website which holds a repository of knowledge that can potentially make the Fighter better not a positive, it's an admonition of the class. If I want a fixed Rogue or Monk, I go to Pathfinder Unchained. One book, available on Paizo's website, advertised as containing those fixes. If I want to make a decent Fighter, I have to dredge through numerous forum threads until I've found the names of all the Fighter band-aids, then I have to go to an unaffiliated website to track down what those things actually do, and even then most of them are "catch up" fixes that are just getting the Fighter up to where all the other classes started, many of them awkwardly paced and not actually helpful depending on the level I'm playing at. That is not a selling point.
The fact that the Fighter is also Paizo's version of a "pay to win" class in PFS (and really more of a "pay to play" option) is just an additional strike against it.
I've often wondered if the cavalier, samurai, and fighter shouldn't all just be one class called the "soldier". Conceptually, it fits; a tough, professional warrior who knows how to fight solo or lead a group and wins the day without using use any type of magical ability. Gestalt them all together and it'd address some of the issues with skill points, saves, and out of combat utility. It'd require some tweaking here and there, but it could work.Moving from fluff to mechanics, there's a lot of ways to houserule that. I have a whole set of Fighter mods, but the short of it is that there are a lot of subsystems that I think would be helpful to give the Fighter. Seriously - at level one, a Cavalier gets a mount, order, tactician, and the challenge ability. Did I mention he gets an entire horse? You know what the Fighter gets? A bonus Feat. One. They should, maybe, get a bit more.
What counts as that "more" is the line in the sand we're dealing with.
I agree with this, although my ideas also swallow swashbuckler, gunslinger and the brawler, too.
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actually terrible at being a generic fill in the blanks class. Pick virtually any character concept, even one as basic and generic as "farmboy picked up a sword" or "a soldier from an army" and the other classes will fill it better (thanks to skills and stuff).So what classes would you use for those concepts?
(There are good answers, but assuming you don't want ranger spellcasting or rage, a novice player would have to search quite hard to find them.)Lets use Strider as an example. Sure, people associate Strider with the ranger class because, well, he calls himself a ranger.
Strider has no magic, does not run around with a pet, fights lots of different ways, and tends to avoid heavy armor.
In fact, there is nothing Strider does that a Lore Warden could not manage just as well, or better, than a character with the ranger class. The fighter is up four feats over the ranger at 6th level allowing him decent levels of proficiency with both TWF and archery. 8 skill points/level with a 14 intelligence (Strider was certainly intelligent) and perception and stealth picked up with traits.
With basic mechanics dealt with, everything else is roleplay. Dress and act appropriate to Strider, refer to yourself as a member of the Rangers, play smart. Try not to choke any annoying
hobbitshalflings.
I think a Slayer would be a better fit than any kind of fighter, actually.
Fighters can't match Rangers or Slayers when it comes to tracking, and tracking is one of Aragorn's best skills.
Sounds like yet another argument about how PFS is bad rather than the fighter being bad, given that all the rules that improve them are freely available online.
You do realize that those rules were made by people that took time and energy to make, for a living, and that those people would probably like to eat food and not sleep in a ditch right?
You really need to participate in pfs to get to know it: it works much better in practice than it does according to theory. Its really not that different than a home game with a dm. Quit complaining about it at every opportunity.
Sure, PFS does what it's meant to, provide a public environment sanctioned by the parent company to enjoy the product.
But it does not represent the entire player base, and issues drawn up from them need to be treated as such and not as if this one facet of the game is more important than anyone else who runs games, be it the people in their homes or other local game shops who have house rules. I've played in and run such games, and branched out to many groups this way who could play whatever rules we wanted at home.
This suggests that you have no problem being just like those people.
Quit complaining about it at every opportunity.
No.
The fighter works better in actual play than theory too, doesn't stop people from complaining about it at every opportunity.
Meh, people keep bringing it up as a reason Fighter doesn't work. Its a system whose house rules seem more intent on holding down some of the weakest classes while really doing very little to rein in the most powerful. When it comes up in discussion of the fighter im going to point out that it does more to hold down some of the weakest classes than it does to rein in the most powerful.
I mean there's literally no reason PFS could not use Stamina (based on a feat, free for fighters, or whatever) or background skills, or any other system from Unchained. URogues and UMonks are allowed and The USummoner is the only legal summoner, so it's not like PFS has a problem with that book existing.
If they did that, fighters would be better in PFS.
I've often wondered if the cavalier, samurai, and fighter shouldn't all just be one class called the "soldier". Conceptually, it fits; a tough, professional warrior who knows how to fight solo or lead a group and wins the day without using use any type of magical ability. Gestalt them all together and it'd address some of the issues with skill points, saves, and out of combat utility. It'd require some tweaking here and there, but it could work.
I really have to agree. Given that the whole (supposed) point of the fighter is being a blank chassis on which you can build whatever you want the idea of having classes like the Gunslinger, Swashbuckler, Cavalier et al. doesn't really seem right.
Of course, the problem is the fighter's core mechanic is feats and feats generally aren't high powered or dynamic enough to accomplish those things very effectively, especially at lower levels.
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There's a long running argument about whether Strider has magic. I tend to think he does (similar to lay on hands), but many say he simply knows lost lore and proper use of herbs for field medicine that was lost to modern men.Much of the information on Aragorn/Strider implies that he is simply superior to the standard strain of humanity running around Middle Earth; while "magic" is debatable, there are definite indications that his abilities go quite beyond what someone who isn't Aragorn could do with the same knowledge. "Hands of a king" and all that. So basically, "magic by any other name" is still magic, and Aragorn has at least a splash.
Especially since Tolkein was usually not very explicit about the difference between knowledge and magic. For example, a lot of the magical equipment the Fellowship had wasn't magical in the sense of "A Wizard made it" so much as it having incredible powers because the smith who forged their swords of the elf who made their cloaks was just that good at what they did.
There's nothing in the CRB that says "Head to the Paizo messageboards for a free system mastery course in making these options work" or "go to this unaffiliated website to pillage rules". If you pick up a CRB, the Fighter sucks, and it takes some web skill and familiarity with the broader system to figure out how to fix it. You still have to actually know what the appropriate fighter is called before you can start looking it up and using it.
The fact that someone is hosting their own website which holds a repository of knowledge that can potentially make the Fighter better not a positive, it's an admonition of the class. If I want a fixed Rogue or Monk, I go to Pathfinder Unchained. One book, available on Paizo's website, advertised as containing those fixes. If I want to make a decent Fighter, I have to dredge through numerous forum threads until I've found the names of all the Fighter band-aids, then I have to go to an unaffiliated website to track down what those things actually do, and even then most of them are "catch up" fixes that are just getting the Fighter up to where all the other classes started, many of them awkwardly paced and not actually helpful depending on the level I'm playing at. That is not a selling point.
I'd also mention that because of the piecemeal way the fighter has been worked on over the years, a lot of the fixes it has gotten have wound up causing problems with previous fixes.
People still bring up Lore Warden as a fix for the Fighter's low skill points—but now the Lore Warden loses out on Advanced Armor Training and takes a penalty to bravery. Or the Two Handed Fighter being the king of DPR ... but again he misses out on Advanced Armor Training, and that archetype doesn't get Bravery at all. Pretty much every good Fighter Archetype that addressed some of the issues with the class lost out on a big chunk of the fixes aimed at boosting up the default class features
There's a long running argument about whether Strider has magic. I tend to think he does (similar to lay on hands), but many say he simply knows lost lore and proper use of herbs for field medicine that was lost to modern men.Much of the information on Aragorn/Strider implies that he is simply superior to the standard strain of humanity running around Middle Earth; while "magic" is debatable, there are definite indications that his abilities go quite beyond what someone who isn't Aragorn could do with the same knowledge. "Hands of a king" and all that. So basically, "magic by any other name" is still magic, and Aragorn has at least a splash.
Aragorn has inherent magic, just the use he got out of Athelas, that Sam calls 'a weed' when he's generally fairly well versed on plants is a bit of Royal magic
Aragorn has inherent magic, just the use he got out of Athelas, that Sam calls 'a weed' when he's generally fairly well versed on plants is a bit of Royal magicThere's a long running argument about whether Strider has magic. I tend to think he does (similar to lay on hands), but many say he simply knows lost lore and proper use of herbs for field medicine that was lost to modern men.Much of the information on Aragorn/Strider implies that he is simply superior to the standard strain of humanity running around Middle Earth; while "magic" is debatable, there are definite indications that his abilities go quite beyond what someone who isn't Aragorn could do with the same knowledge. "Hands of a king" and all that. So basically, "magic by any other name" is still magic, and Aragorn has at least a splash.
It could be also read as: Since Aragorn lived that long, he's the only ranger to reach spellcasting levels (and it fits in parts of prophecies about his greatness). And athelas is just a material component for a spell (delay poison or something).
it was not a mere cure wounds, it was at least a delay poison spell, and I'm not sure rangers get that... I wonder if he doesn't have cleric or druid levels, or maybe a ranger archetype with enhanced spellcasting...
I said delay poison, which is 1st lvl spell for rangers...
No.
Quit complaining about it at every opportunity.
then at least make informed critiques, because right now all you do is spread disinformation. Case in point...
The fighter works better in actual play than theory too
No. The theory around the fighter and the benefit of a full base attack bonus include making full attacks, something it does on a spread sheet with far less efficiency than in actual play.
doesn't stop people from complaining about it at every opportunity.
Most dm's also ban some alternate rules, systems, and feats. If you try to fix the fighter with a third party product you'll likely get a similar banhammer from a home game DM.
I don't call being a resource sink and being carried by the contributing characters 'succeeding.'
It's only a team hame if everyone pulls their own weight
Contributing less =/= being carried. I could make a party of all fighters and get through any AP. It may be more difficult, but that doesn't mean it would be unsuccessful.
Over on the GitP forums, someone proposed a simple test: A Fighter wants to kill a flying, plane-shifting dragon. How can they get to the dragon, fight it, and win, without a lot of sentences that start with "ask a spellcaster to..."?
Contributing less =/= being carried. I could make a party of all fighters and get through any AP. It may be more difficult, but that doesn't mean it would be unsuccessful.Okay, this I GOTTA see. Which AP, and who's going to GM it?
That's not really a simple test, it's a test specifically constructed to try and beat a fighter. I never said fighters are amazing or able to do everything XYZ other class could do, I was just arguing that they aren't "being carried" in a general sense. Also it can be any AP. Like I said, it would be harder for sure, but absolutely possible.
Yeah I mean, fighters aren't a great class but it's not like they can't do amazing DPR and building characters that can overcome CR appropriate challenges isn't all that difficult in Pathfinder either.
Yeah I mean, fighters aren't a great class but it's not like they can't do amazing DPR and building characters that can overcome CR appropriate challenges isn't all that difficult in Pathfinder either.Beating the hitpoints out of enemies they can reach is something Fighters are indeed good at. Dealing with enemies who fly around while spamming Save-Or-Cry effects might present a problem. And pity them if they need to use skills for anything...
A fighter with Item Mastery: Flight Mastery should do the trick. Thry can even switch into it with Barroom Brawler and Warrior Spirit to get some Training (AWT: Item Mastery) special qualities for even more options.
With all due respect, the GM and/or group was coddling the fighter. Either enemies weren't being played to their potential, or the GM deliberately structured encounters [and possibly gear distribution] to favor the fighter.The only way to have a completely non-magical, simple martial class actually achieve level 17 is if they basically become Saitama from One Punch ManI've had several break 17. They did fine and were crushing things all the way til the end.Or they are creative players that understand how the rules work.
It's really not that hard to succeed at high levels, even as a fighter. . .
I don't call being a resource sink and being carried by the contributing characters 'succeeding.'
It's only a team hame if everyone pulls their own weight
If you cannot pull your own weight as a fighter, even at high level, you are doing it wrong.
A fighter with Item Mastery: Flight Mastery should do the trick. Thry can even switch into it with Barroom Brawler and Warrior Spirit to get some Training (AWT: Item Mastery) special qualities for even more options.Yeah I mean, fighters aren't a great class but it's not like they can't do amazing DPR and building characters that can overcome CR appropriate challenges isn't all that difficult in Pathfinder either.Beating the hitpoints out of enemies they can reach is something Fighters are indeed good at. Dealing with enemies who fly around while spamming Save-Or-Cry effects might present a problem. And pity them if they need to use skills for anything...
Item mastery feats, winged boots, actual wings.
All are options at higher levels.
actually terrible at being a generic fill in the blanks class. Pick virtually any character concept, even one as basic and generic as "farmboy picked up a sword" or "a soldier from an army" and the other classes will fill it better (thanks to skills and stuff).So what classes would you use for those concepts?
(There are good answers, but assuming you don't want ranger spellcasting or rage, a novice player would have to search quite hard to find them.)Lets use Strider as an example. Sure, people associate Strider with the ranger class because, well, he calls himself a ranger.
Strider has no magic, does not run around with a pet, fights lots of different ways, and tends to avoid heavy armor.
In fact, there is nothing Strider does that a Lore Warden could not manage just as well, or better, than a character with the ranger class. The fighter is up four feats over the ranger at 6th level allowing him decent levels of proficiency with both TWF and archery. 8 skill points/level with a 14 intelligence (Strider was certainly intelligent) and perception and stealth picked up with traits.
With basic mechanics dealt with, everything else is roleplay. Dress and act appropriate to Strider, refer to yourself as a member of the Rangers, play smart. Try not to choke any annoying
hobbitshalflings.
I think a Slayer would be a better fit than any kind of fighter, actually.
Fighters can't match Rangers or Slayers when it comes to tracking, and tracking is one of Aragorn's best skills.
At the level range I was discussing (6th is usually agreed on as appropriate for LotR), a ranger or slayer has a +3 bonus over a fighter.
There are many different ways to interpret Strider in Pathfinder. No one way is necessarily better or worse than any other, interpretation tends to be a personal matter as much is based on personal opinion.
That being said, as a 6th level fighter
Strider
Male human (Taldan) fighter (lore warden) 6 (Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Pathfinder Society Field Guide)
CG Medium humanoid (human)
Init +2; Senses Perception +10
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Defense
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AC 20, touch 13, flat-footed 17 (+7 armor, +2 Dex, +1 dodge)
hp 58 (6d10+18)
Fort +7, Ref +4, Will +2 (+1 vs. fear)
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee +1 longsword +11/+6 (1d8+8/19-20) or
. . +1 longsword +11 (1d8+8/19-20)
Ranged mwk composite longbow +9/+4 (1d8+4/×3)
Special Attacks weapon training (heavy blades +1)
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Statistics
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Str 18, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 10
Base Atk +6; CMB +12; CMD 25
Feats Advanced Weapon Training, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Double Slice, Fast Learner[ARG], Power Attack, Two-weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (longsword), Weapon Specialization (longsword)
Traits highlander (hills or mountains), seeker
Skills Acrobatics +3, Climb +7, Handle Animal +4, Heal +8, Intimidate +4, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +6, Knowledge (geography) +8, Knowledge (history) +6, Knowledge (local) +7, Knowledge (nature) +11, Knowledge (religion) +6, Perception +10, Ride +4, Spellcraft +6, Stealth +10 (+12 in hilly or rocky areas), Survival +9, Swim +6; Racial Modifiers highlander (hills or mountains)
Languages Common, Dwarven, Elven
Combat Gear healer's kit; Other Gear +1 elven chain, +1 longsword, +1 longsword, arrows (20), mwk composite longbow (+4 Str), belt of giant strength +2, 369 gp
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Special Abilities
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Advanced Weapon Training You are specially trained to use your weapon skills in new ways.
Prerequisites: Fighter level 5th, weapon training class feature.
Benefit: Select one advanced weapon training option, applying it to one fighter weapon group you h
Combat Expertise +/-2 Bonus to AC in exchange for an equal penalty to attack.
Effortless Dual-Wielding (Weapon Training [Blades, Heavy] +1) (Ex) Treat selected weapon group as light for determining dual-wielding penalties.
Power Attack -2/+4 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Weapon Training (Blades, Heavy) +1 (Ex) +1 Attack, Damage, CMB, CMD with Heavy Blades
I skipped Armed Braver and went with TWFing while using Longswords (the weapon of choice for most in middle earth.) While Strider carries and uses a bow, he tends no to fire into melee.
Light weight armor. Strider is not wearing heavy armor during his travels with Frodo. Elven armor seemed most appropriate, also with an investment in dodge to reflect Strider side stepping attacks. Combined with a decent dexterity score, the run of the mill orcs are going to have to try a little harder to seriously injure our hero. Trying this trick with Nazgul is not recommended.
Strider is a knowledgeable person, well versed in many topics. Nature, geography, medicine, the doings of men, he can even identify the barrow wraiths. Stealth, perception and survival are also primary skills, very important for a Ranger of the North. Lore warden matches well with this, and the light armor. We'll not be missing heavy armor for now. Maybe well pick up proficiency later, if needed while leading an army.
Magic items are scarce, for now. Probably spent too much on the armor and weapons instead of a cloak of resistance, but that really has nothing to do with class chosen. The exact same gear would work with an equivalent slayer or ranger.
I probably should have sprung for Iron Will. Fighters certainly have an easier time picking it up than rangers or slayers, but so many other toys. Maybe if Strider makes it to 7th level.
Resource sink
But...where else do those resources go? Who is providing these resources? Spellcasters? Well, then what exactly wpuld be a better investment? If I wasn't wrong, the problem for martials was never doing their job in a vacuum, it was enabling it due to various obstacles they cannot overcome. Spellcasters break down those obstacles. But they really can't replace a fighter. Because they break down in a vacuum. And the only chance they could reppace fighters before epic levels is with extreme cheese.
And at that point I think your argument might as well be that nobody should anything but wizards just powergaming from 1-20 and be done with it.
Yeah I mean, fighters aren't a great class but it's not like they can't do amazing DPR and building characters that can overcome CR appropriate challenges isn't all that difficult in Pathfinder either.Beating the hitpoints out of enemies they can reach is something Fighters are indeed good at. Dealing with enemies who fly around while spamming Save-Or-Cry effects might present a problem. And pity them if they need to use skills for anything...
It's not particularly difficult to gain some method of flight.
And I mean, archery is often considered the best combat style in the game, which gives you a pretty darn long 'reach'.
I'm not even disagreeing with the core premise that fighters are a fairly underwhelming class. It's just that most of those issues are relative more than anything else and clearing CR appropriate encounters in PF isn't very hard.
Most dm's also ban some alternate rules, systems, and feats. If you try to fix the fighter with a third party product you'll likely get a similar banhammer from a home game DM.
What i'm saying IS informed, the fighter, using the options available, put forth by paizo, is of high martial/low 3/4 caster value to a party. Contributes more than "OH MY GOD COMPLETELY USELESS", AND you don't even need to max the potential DPR to one round many CR appropriate monsters up til 9, which i have been assured is absolutely almost the end of anyone's adventuring career. (though why people constantly bring up wizards doing 9th level spell s!!+ if all these campaigns are done by 6th or 7th escapes me).
Could we stop comparing paizo issued products to 3rd party as well? Its a bit disingenuous. But as ive said, gms are more than in their rights to ban or allow or not allow what they want, but they then have to assume the responsibility of balance of classes.
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I don't know about most APs but mid-latw RotRL would eat an all martial party alive if played to the fullest by the GM.
Gunslingers would fare better than Fighters, but certain enemies [with propper spell selection] would eat them for lunch.
Yeah, I just took a look at
Or look at Reign of Winter
A party of just fighters would have a rough time. Particularly at higher levels, but even at low level as evidenced by the RoW thing I mentioned. And good luck if the party encounters even a single shadow before they get their hands on a magic weapon. Not a serious issue if you've got a cleric or wizard, but a likely TPK in a party of all fighters.
Or look at Reign of Winter ** spoiler omitted **
The fighter has the possibility of being two-rounded. A wizard has the possibility of being one rounded by the same action. The fighter generally should last 3-4 rounds, the wizard will only last 2-3 rounds on average.
Prior to invisibility breaking, a fighter can attack with a 50% miss chance. Wizards cannot generally target invisible opponents.
** spoiler omitted **
Or look at Reign of Winter ** spoiler omitted **
Wait what? No. Wizards can target them way easier than the Fighter can without the miss chance.
Wait what? No. Wizards can target them way easier than the Fighter can without the miss chance.** spoiler omitted **
Or look at Reign of Winter ** spoiler omitted **
Spells with "Target" cannot be used against opponents with total concealment. This includes invisible opponents.
Some spells have a target or targets. You cast these spells on creatures or objects, as defined by the spell itself. You must be able to see or touch the target, and you must specifically choose that target. You do not have to select your target until you finish casting the spell.
I think MadScientistWorking doesn't literally mean targeting an invisible creature. Anything that lets the wizard affect the invisible creature will do. Something like Glitterdust or See invisibility would work, and Glitterdust is a staple spell while See Invisibility is a prime scroll candidate.
Of course, this is level 2, so those aren't exactly options yet.
Not that this really matters. It is invisibility, not improved invisibility. The fighters and the wizard have roughly zero chance of finding the invisible creature before they open up on the party, and afterwards they are visible again so it doesn't matter if the fighters can attack with 50% concealment (mind you, total concealment does jack vs Color Spray).
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I think MadScientistWorking doesn't literally mean targeting an invisible creature. Anything that lets the wizard affect the invisible creature will do. Something like Glitterdust or See invisibility would work, and Glitterdust is a staple spell while See Invisibility is a prime scroll candidate.
Of course, this is level 2, so those aren't exactly options yet.
Not that this really matters. It is invisibility, not improved invisibility. The fighters and the wizard have roughly zero chance of finding the invisible creature before they open up on the party, and afterwards they are visible again so it doesn't matter if the fighters can attack with 50% concealment (mind you, total concealment does jack vs Color Spray).
Plus, so long as the wizard has line of sight
I think MadScientistWorking doesn't literally mean targeting an invisible creature. Anything that lets the wizard affect the invisible creature will do. Something like Glitterdust or See invisibility would work, and Glitterdust is a staple spell while See Invisibility is a prime scroll candidate.
Of course, this is level 2, so those aren't exactly options yet.
Not that this really matters. It is invisibility, not improved invisibility. The fighters and the wizard have roughly zero chance of finding the invisible creature before they open up on the party, and afterwards they are visible again so it doesn't matter if the fighters can attack with 50% concealment (mind you, total concealment does jack vs Color Spray).
Nope. Ironically both martials and spellcasters have access to an ability that will negate the premise of invisibility. Admittedly I'm not entirely sure how order of operations work when you ready an action against an invisible creature but still you can get the jump on them.
I think MadScientistWorking doesn't literally mean targeting an invisible creature. Anything that lets the wizard affect the invisible creature will do. Something like Glitterdust or See invisibility would work, and Glitterdust is a staple spell while See Invisibility is a prime scroll candidate.
Of course, this is level 2, so those aren't exactly options yet.
Not that this really matters. It is invisibility, not improved invisibility. The fighters and the wizard have roughly zero chance of finding the invisible creature before they open up on the party, and afterwards they are visible again so it doesn't matter if the fighters can attack with 50% concealment (mind you, total concealment does jack vs Color Spray).
The scenario cited was for second level characters. Glitterdust and See Invisibility were not options.
Both the fighter and the wizard are in a difficult spot, as the opponent will most likely break invisibility with an AoE, dealing roughly 1/3 of the fighter's hp and 1/2 the wizard's hp.
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Nope. Ironically both martials and spellcasters have access to an ability that will negate the premise of invisibility. Admittedly I'm not entirely sure how order of operations work when you ready an action against an invisible creature but still you can get the jump on them.I think MadScientistWorking doesn't literally mean targeting an invisible creature. Anything that lets the wizard affect the invisible creature will do. Something like Glitterdust or See invisibility would work, and Glitterdust is a staple spell while See Invisibility is a prime scroll candidate.
Of course, this is level 2, so those aren't exactly options yet.
Not that this really matters. It is invisibility, not improved invisibility. The fighters and the wizard have roughly zero chance of finding the invisible creature before they open up on the party, and afterwards they are visible again so it doesn't matter if the fighters can attack with 50% concealment (mind you, total concealment does jack vs Color Spray).
Invisibility does not break until the action breaking the invisibility occurs.
A readied action vs. an attack (or spell) would occur prior to the attack being made. A caster would still be invisible at the time the readied action resolved.