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Excluding the old "I had a feat to burn" option, I can only think of two reasons to use Combat Reflexes: You're building a controller (the snap shot tree or the lunge feat to threaten a large area and keep people from moving) and/or you and your teammates have a lot of Greater combat maneuver feats and you're all about group-stunlock-killing the enemy (trip him, disarm him, push him, and provoke an AoO from your allies with each success).
Am I missing some other build idea?
I think you're thinking Combat Patrol, not Lunge.
Lunge's increased reach effect ends at the end of your turn (the -2 penalty to AC remains until the beginning of your next turn).
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You have a high dex and like to make AoOs... Also nice to be able to make them in that surprise round...
honestly, I've seen a lot more successful uses out of Combat Reflexes then I ever have Combat expertise!!
That's the crappy feat I've had to take and never use before...
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It's not a terrible Feat for any character with a decent to high Dex, particularly if they're using a reach weapon.
Being able to smack a caster both for casting AND firing a ranged attack is solid, for example.
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... I don't think it works that way.It's not a terrible Feat for any character with a decent to high Dex, particularly if they're using a reach weapon.
Being able to smack a caster both for casting AND firing a ranged attack is solid, for example.
Combat Ref lexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity:
If you have the Combat Ref lexes feat, you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity
from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity).Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. All these attacks are at your full normal attack bonus.
Yep. If someone provokes for two separate reasons you can get two separate AoOs on them. Casting a Spell, and making a ranged attack would be legit.
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... I don't think it works that way.It's not a terrible Feat for any character with a decent to high Dex, particularly if they're using a reach weapon.
Being able to smack a caster both for casting AND firing a ranged attack is solid, for example.
Yep. If someone provokes for two separate reasons you can get two separate AoOs on them. Casting a Spell, and making a ranged attack would be legit.Combat Ref lexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity:
If you have the Combat Ref lexes feat, you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity
from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity).Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. All these attacks are at your full normal attack bonus.
But casting the spell and attacking with is the same action.
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But casting the spell and attacking with is the same action.... I don't think it works that way.It's not a terrible Feat for any character with a decent to high Dex, particularly if they're using a reach weapon.
Being able to smack a caster both for casting AND firing a ranged attack is solid, for example.
Yep. If someone provokes for two separate reasons you can get two separate AoOs on them. Casting a Spell, and making a ranged attack would be legit.Combat Ref lexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity:
If you have the Combat Ref lexes feat, you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity
from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity).Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. All these attacks are at your full normal attack bonus.
This FaQ apparently disagrees with me.
Wow, that's kinda effed up.
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It may be the same action, but it's for different events that happen during the action.
Yes, you provoke two attacks of opportunity: one for casting the spell and one for making a ranged attack, since these are two separate events.
(Note that at spell that fires multiple simultaneous rays, such as scorching ray, only provokes one AOO for making the ranged attack instead of one AOO for each ranged attack. It still provokes for casting the spell.
EDIT: Woops ninja'd
But casting the spell and attacking with is the same action.... I don't think it works that way.It's not a terrible Feat for any character with a decent to high Dex, particularly if they're using a reach weapon.
Being able to smack a caster both for casting AND firing a ranged attack is solid, for example.
Yep. If someone provokes for two separate reasons you can get two separate AoOs on them. Casting a Spell, and making a ranged attack would be legit.Combat Ref lexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity:
If you have the Combat Ref lexes feat, you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity
from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity).Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. All these attacks are at your full normal attack bonus.
Like most things, that would fall under DM call. I know most I've played with would say that casting a spell whether it's attack or not is an AoO... and concentration or you lose the spell.. If the spell succeeds THEN you make the ranged attack and provoke another one.
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...because in general, reach is one of the strongest styles? I mean...who DOESN'T like getting more attacks when the enemy engages you?
It is 2 handed plus. 2 handing 2.5. All the damage of 2 handing, with more damage from AoOs and options to expand into other areas.
And it only costs one more feat to get the basic build when compared to 2 handing.
Now, 'why combat reflexes when you already get an AoO each round?' Because you want to have spare AoOs each round. Because if you spend your one AoO on a mook, then another enemy can go unimpeded. So why wouldn't you spend the feat to get more attacks when your GM tries to be cheeky?
Or rather, you are less getting more attacks, and more stealing away options from your GM to get his monsters to do things unpunished. This feat removes options from your GM. Or at least criminalize them and place the stiff penalty of a 2 handed attack upside the head (or two 2 handed attacks if you grabbed a fortuitous weapon). This principle of course applies outside of reach weapons, to things like 'caster is casting a spell and shooting a beam next to me', leading to the two AoOs. Why would you let them get off light for that.
So even without maneuvers or expansive area control, I think there are plenty of reasons to spend the one extra feat. It is never a 'bad' option for anything that hits things.
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Cut from the Air. Deflect ranged attacks with a melee weapon.
I use it for tripping, but its also just really strong with reach weapons in general. A level 1 15 pt buy fighter can hit a ceiling of like 70 damage a round with a polearm if a bunch of enemies with low ACs have to get into melee with him and he has, say, power attack, combat reflexes and cleave.
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Combat Reflexes is an amazing feat, assuming you have a semi-reasonable Dexterity investment, because it does something no other feat does: Gives bonus attacks at no penalty. Two-weapon fighting imposes a penalty and requires a full-round action to use. Same goes for Many/Rapid Shot. Combat Reflexes should be considered the TWF/Rapid Shot of reach weapons/two-handed fighting. Anything that increases your attacks per round, especially on such a consistent basis (reach weapons, enlarge person, etc.), is exceedingly powerful.
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Cut from the Air. Deflect ranged attacks with a melee weapon.
And then Smash from the Air. Smash friggin' disintegrate out of the air. >:D
I grabbed it because between it, broken wing gambit, greater trip, and a few guys taking paired opportunists, my whole party whips into a frenzy every time my hunter or his animal companion get attacked. Plus I use a reach weapon and love melee combat with medium or smaller creatures.
Overall, if you don't have more than one provoke a round, it is BECAUSE of combat reflexes. It is a great deterrent, since they know you can smack them around, and thus they avoid it.
Like nukes, only you can convince the other side to be stupid enough to walk into them, and you don't destroy the whole world when it is used.
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When you have all the greater trip, and vicious stomp feats, you can do some nasty combo-locking on one target. That's not even going into snake fang. Really good for pissing off one person.
I trip him, hit him because he provoked me, and then stomp on him because he fell. I finish my flurr of blows. Since he is getting up I hit him again, and once he makes an attack against me, he misses, so I get to trip him again, and then stomp on him, and then hit again. My turn now, so I do a full flurry. He gets up, and I hit him, and when he tries to run away I trip him, and hit him. My turn...
#MeanGM
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Biggest reason I take it is Paired Opportunists, Outflank, and Butterfly's sting. Handing out crits from Kukri or Rapiers is fun.
Surprise rounds.
Dms LOVE them.
you didn't say you were looking SURPRISE
you said you were looking for traps, this is an ambush. SURPRISE!
It has a +74 stealth modifier from invisibility. SURPRISE!
... Which is why i made a kitsune unchained rogue with an elven branched spear. Ok, Surprise round move up... you surprise me I sneak attack YOU. Next guy moves up, i sneak attack gank them. Ok now its safe right? Nope.. moves up.. GANK.
Take Combat Reflexes, carry reach weapon. Cheap and very effective. Hell, worth it even with a +0 dex modifier.
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It really depends on the build.
My Barbarian has Come and Get Me. This let's me generate A LOT of AoO's. In addition, surprise attack and the fortuitous enchant bump up my AoO even more. On a round that I don't get attacked I can take 2 AoOs every round. This is great for casters who pass the defensive casting check as I can still interrupt the spell. When I get attacked I add in another AoO for every attack against me. In a good round I can get in my 4 normal attacks plus 6 additional AoOs.
My strength magus that's usually rolling with long arm and monstrous physique II gets great mileage out of his combat reflexes, especially combined with our dwarf foehammer fighter (who grants others PCs AoOs pretty much every time he acts).
And being pretty much always able to AoO is really nice too - I lose initiative all the damn time, but I'm still an immediate threat in the opening round.
Anyone with a low initiative modifier and a reach weapon will get substantial usage from Combat Reflexes.
Artanthos, ender of encounters, would like a word with the OP.
With aberrant bloodrage and a potion of enlarge person from his spring loaded wrist sheath, I rock 15' of unarmed reach and 30' of total coverage with the lucerne hammer. With his recently acquired Quaking Amulet of Mighty Fists, I can ki throw a target that is 35' away from me by kicking the ground as a standard action, moving them up to a stunning 60' as part of my trip. I also regularly use Martial Flexibility to grab Bodyguard and team up with my axebeak to provide +7 AC vs attacks (Order of the Dragon increases my aid and the axebeak has Additional Traits for Adopted to get the halfling Helpful trait).
Anyone with a low initiative modifier and a reach weapon will get substantial usage from Combat Reflexes.
What is considered a low initiative modifier??
You need to have a decent Dex to really use Combat Reflexes to its fullest... and that should give you a decent Initiative modifier too.
Unless everyone else has really min/maxed the heck out of it...
personally, My low init guys are around 0... my high init guys tap out around 3...
Anyone with a low initiative modifier and a reach weapon will get substantial usage from Combat Reflexes.What is considered a low initiative modifier??
You need to have a decent Dex to really use Combat Reflexes to its fullest... and that should give you a decent Initiative modifier too.
Unless everyone else has really min/maxed the heck out of it...
personally, My low init guys are around 0... my high init guys tap out around 3...
Anyone with 12 dex and reactionary has that.
Improved initiative is a staple for most casters.
I've seen players with 10+ at level 2.
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I'll just second what everyone else has said. Combat Reflexes is great for certain builds. I have it on two characters that use reach weapons, one character that uses Bodyguard, and one character that uses Snake Fang -- my 11th level Unchained Monk, that when hasted and spending a Ki can get 11 attacks per round. 9 of them are at full-BAB/bonus). That's 5 attacks from flurry, 1 from Ki, 1 from haste, and up to 4 AoOs. It's great when I'm being attacked by multiple enemies, or when an enemy has 3 or 4 natural attacks. It's also good on a round I need to move up. I can spend a Ki on AC, then move past all of the smaller enemies, provoking and letting Mobility Kick in, usually putting my AC above 40. With Flying Kick, I might even get a full attack at the end of it.
I don't.
Most of the attacks of opportunity were trimmed from my home game. One reason among many that we don't experience hour long combats.
Anyone with a low initiative modifier and a reach weapon will get substantial usage from Combat Reflexes.What is considered a low initiative modifier??
You need to have a decent Dex to really use Combat Reflexes to its fullest... and that should give you a decent Initiative modifier too.
Unless everyone else has really min/maxed the heck out of it...
personally, My low init guys are around 0... my high init guys tap out around 3...
Anyone with 12 dex and reactionary has that.
Improved initiative is a staple for most casters.
I've seen players with 10+ at level 2.
Yep. I've seen a few really high ones too... it's just that the player REALLY focused on that.
Average Inits? Usually the 3-4 are the high ones in our games.
But improved initiative alone is more than that, and that's with no dex modifier...a crb feat. You therefore clearly don't even have to focus for more.
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It doesn't take much for some classes to get a high init mod.
A ranged focused Inquisitor, for example, is prioritizing Dex for their ranged combat anyway, then prioritizing Wisdom for spell casting, and getting the combination of the two for an initiative bonus. Probably around a +6 to +8 at second level with no trait or feat boosting it.
Gunslingers have a built in initiative bonus and prioritize Dex. Around a +6 at 3rd level without a feat or trait.
Swashbuckler is essentially the same as Gunslinger. +6 at 3rd without trying.
Rogue/Ninja is going to probably be +4 or +5 at level 1, if they are a Finesse build.
An Archer build is going to be around +4 or +5 at level 1, regardless of class.
A Diviner Wizard might not start out that high, but is getting 1/2 level to initiative, so if they have any Dex bonus at all, they'll be to +5 or +6 before too long.
Just taking Reactionary or Warrior of Old gets a lot of these classes to +8. Improved Initiative would take them to +10 to +12.
Now throw in the +1 competence bonus from a cracked Dusty Rose Prism ioun stone for 500gp. Or the eventual Belt of Dexterity and 4th and 8th level stat increases. Or Heightened Awareness for a +4 untyped bonus.
Anyone with a low initiative modifier and a reach weapon will get substantial usage from Combat Reflexes.What is considered a low initiative modifier??
You need to have a decent Dex to really use Combat Reflexes to its fullest... and that should give you a decent Initiative modifier too.
Unless everyone else has really min/maxed the heck out of it...
personally, My low init guys are around 0... my high init guys tap out around 3...
My oracle of battle has a -4 modifier :P
She always goes first - in the second round.
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I never really care about initiative. Mostly because I don't play sneak attackers or fireballs so getting there first doesn't interest me. I do play a lot of healers and support so having stuff to do is fun when it's my turn.
Actually - I think that support is the 2nd most important to go first (right after SA classes) since your group is still all clumped together for buffing and you can get Haste/Blessing of Fervor up before your buddies move.
Also keep in mind that at higher levels, good dex scores + improved initiative means most monsters will easily have a +8 to +10 (or much, much higher if they're supposed to be agile) initiative mod.
Come and Get Me barb builds.
There's nothing like killing six minions that attack you on their turn.
Being able to generate AoO's has always been a problem.
That's why Come and Get Me, and Robilar's stance, it's 3.5 Progenitor, were so popular. Also why Thicket of Blades and feats that worked off it were so nice for Stand Still builds in 3.5.