Vicious Wolf Toppling: Gestalt Build Optimization Advice


Advice


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So I've come up with a gestalt build based around an interesting shenanigan I found with Toppling Spell, Vicious Stomp, and the Wolf Style feat line. And I'm looking to make it better.

Basics of the build: Level 8, druid on one side of the gestalt, a brawler/fighter/monk mix on the other. He uses a toppling magic missile (aspirant's bond, Naga Aspirant ability) to make trip attempts against 5 enemies, with a +26 trip bonus. Any enemies that are tripped fall into an adjacent square of his choosing (Wolf Trip). He then gets an attack of opportunity against all of them with a +16 bonus against AC-4 (Vicious Stomp). If he's flanking any of them (and chances are he will be, because he chooses where they land), he gets to add his Wisdom (+7) to the attack roll (pack tactics Wolf Domain ability). If he hits them, the damage will activate Wolf Savage, giving them a DC 23 Fort save vs. bestow curse.

Side notes:
Firstly, this build is entirely theoretical, which means that I'll shamelessly minmax as long as it doesn't hurt the build overall. This also means that I'm not worried about it being playable at any level other than 8.
Secondly, I understand that this build isn't going to be able to use its tripping shenanigans on creatures that are immune to trip. I'm okay with that; it's just a drawback of tripping in general. The character has other druid spells and other party members. I'm created this build with the expectation that the character would be heavily dependent on tripping, and I'm just trying to make it better at what it does.
Finally, just so you know, I'm making a couple of slight assumptions about the rules as a basis for this build. I'm assuming that Toppling Spell functions like a normal trip attempt except as otherwise specified, and is therefore affected normally by feats such as Improved Trip, Fury's Fall, and Wolf Trip, the last of which I brought up in this thread. I'm also assuming that armor does not impede a monk's AC bonus ability when they are using Wild Shape and the armor is melded into their form, as has been discussed on a few threads in the past.

Anyway, here it is:

Stat block (in medium air elemental wild shape form):

Male human druid (naga aspirant) 8 // brawler (snakebite striker) 2/fighter (lore warden) 4/monk (master of many styles) 2
LN Medium humanoid (human)
Init +6; Senses darkvision 60 ft., Perception +18
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Defense
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AC 30, touch 26, flat-footed 24 (+6 Dex, +7 Wis, +4 natural, +1 deflection, +1 insight, +1 luck)
hp 74 (6d10+2d8+32)
Fort +14,
Ref +15,
Will +17
Defensive Abilities aspirant’s enlightenment, evasion
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft., fly 60 ft. (perfect)
Melee unarmed strike +16/+11 (1d6+8), slam +9 (1d6+6)
unarmed strike brawler’s flurry +14/+14/+9 (1d6+8)
slam +14 (1d6+6)
Special Attacks pack tactics 10/day, sneak attack +1d6, Stunning Fist 5/day (DC 21), wild shape 3/day, whirlwind (DC 12), Wolf Savage (DC 23)
Druid Spells Prepared (CL 8th; concentration +15)
4th - strong jaw, something, something, something
3rd - aspect of the wolf, something, something, something, something, something
2nd - bloodhound, something, something, something, something, something
1st - hunter’s howl, toppling magic missile x6
0 (at will) - something, something, something, something
--------------------
Statistics
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Str 7, Dex 22, Con 16, Int 7, Wis 24, Cha 7
Base Atk +8; CMB +8 (+16 with Weapon Finesse, +18 to trip); CMD 32 (34 vs trip)
Feats Ability Focus (Wolf Savage), Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Fury’s Fall, Improved Trip, Improved Unarmed Strike, Natural Spell, Racial Heritage (Nagaji), Stunning Fist, Toppling Spell, Vicious Stomp, Weapon Finesse, Wolf Savage, Wolf Style, Wolf Trip
Traits Gifted Adept (magic missile), Wayang Spellhunter (magic missile)
Skills Acrobatics +10, Escape Artist +10, Fly +18, Heal +11, Perception +18, Knowledge (nature) +11, Sense Motive +11, Stealth +17, Survival +16
Languages Common, Druidic
SQ wild empathy +6
Combat Gear first level pearl of power
Other Gear agile amulet of mighty fists / amulet of natural armor +1, belt of incredible dexterity +2, +1 brawling padded armor, cloak of resistance +1, dusty rose prism ioun stone, headband of inspired wisdom +2, jingasa of the fortunate soldier, ring of protection +1
--------------------
Gifted Adept +1 CL with chosen spell
Wayang Spellhunter reduce cost of metamagic by one for chosen spell

Level/Stat Breakdown:

Ability Scores (25 point buy)
Str: 7 (-4 points)
Dex: 16 (10 points) + 4 size + 2 enhancement = 22
Con: 16 (10 points)
Int: 7 (-4 points)
Wis: 18 (17 points) + 2 racial + 2 level + 2 enhancement = 24
Cha: 7 (-4 points)

1: Druid//Brawler BAB +1, Fort +2, Ref +2, Will +2
2: Druid//Fighter BAB +2, Fort +4, Ref +2, Will +3
3: Druid//Fighter BAB +3, Fort +5, Ref +3, Will +3
4: Druid//Monk BAB +4, Fort +7, Ref +5, Will +5
5: Druid//Monk BAB +5, Fort +8, Ref +6, Will +6
6: Druid//Brawler BAB +6, Fort +9, Ref +7, Will +7
7: Druid//Fighter BAB +7, Fort +9, Ref +8, Will +8
8: Druid//Fighter BAB +8, Fort +10, Ref +8, Will +9

1: Weapon Finesse
1-Brawler Bonus: Improved Unarmed Strike
1-Druid Bonus: Improved Trip
1-Human Bonus: Racial Heritage (Nagaji)
2-Fighter Bonus: Combat Reflexes
3: Toppling Spell
3-Fighter Bonus: Combat Expertise
3-Fighter Bonus: Wolf Style
4-Monk Bonus: Stunning Fist
4-Monk Bonus: Wolf Trip
5: Natural Spell
5-Monk Bonus: Wolf Savage
6-Brawler Bonus: Vicious Stomp
7: Ability Focus (Wolf Savage)
8-Fighter Bonus: Fury’s Fall


I have a few areas I'm looking for particular advice on.

Trip bonus with toppling magic missile: Right now, it's at 26 (9 CL + 7 Wis + 6 Fury's Fall + 2 Improved Trip + 2 Maneuver Mastery). Is there a good way to get it higher? Trip bonus is my primary concern, but I also want to improve other statistics: attack bonus, AC, Wolf Savage DC, etc.

Feats: I thought Ability Focus (Wolf Savage) would be more useful than Greater Trip. Was I wrong? Any important feats I'm missing? Any more efficient way to accomplish what I have now?

Magic Items: I was hoping to get Wild stoneplate or something to boost my AC, but it was quite expensive and prevented me from getting brawling armor. Should I have gotten it after all? I also decided a monk's robe probably wasn't worth it. Was I wrong? Finally, I was considering dropping the amulet of natural armor and just using barkskin, maybe spending the money on upgrading my cloak or buying more pearls of power. Should I do that? Any important magic items I'm missing? Any more efficient way to accomplish what I have now?

Spells: Here, I'm sort of at a loss. I don't have much experience with casting druids above low levels, so I haven't settled on any spells beyond magic missile and the domain spells. I have access to a very nice selection of spells from the Naga Aspirant archetype. I get some handy buff spells from my domain, but I could use more. I also have the Wis for spells that have saves, and the Dex and BAB for spells with attack rolls. I'm just not sure what to pick. I will probably prepare greater thunderstomp once, just in case the placement of enemies is too perfect to pass up. Other than that, I could definitely use suggestions.

Any other advice?


Heatstroke would be a useful debuff for you. River of Wind is a bigger, longer-lasting version of Greater Thunderstomp. Ice Slick might be redundant with your toppling magic missiles, but it's there. Vine Strike lets you further debuff your enemies. Slowing Mud combines Slow and a blinding effect.

There are some nice spells which depend on the right environment/situation to be useful. Sickening Entanglement, Echolocation, Scrying, Shifting Sands or Plant Growth for example. Fortunately you know all the spells on your list and can prepare them each day as necessary.

Look up the naga aspirant spells too; you may prefer Mirror Image to Ironskin, for example.


how are you turning into "medium air elemental wild shape form"? naga aspirant replaces wild shape.


avr: Slowing Mud and Vine Strike seem fantastic for my purposes. Being prone and staggered would be an enormous pain for my opponents (not to mention the blindness), because standing would use a whole turn and provoke, moving away would use a whole turn, provoke, and get them nowhere. And stacking more debuffs onto every unarmed strike is great as well. Heatstroke is nice, but it's single target, so I'm not sure how useful it would be as a level 3 spell. Maybe against bosses that can't be tripped. I'm not that enthusiastic about River of Wind or Ice Slick, because they knock prone, not trip, so Wolf Trip wouldn't activate and pull them to me.

Rylar: I was under the impression that Naga Aspirants got wild shape like normal, and then at 6th level they got an alternate option for using wild shape, while keeping the normal ability. Here's the relevant text, with a portion bolded for emphasis:
"At 6th level, the naga aspirant can use her wild shape ability (gained at 4th level, as normal) to assume the form of a true naga....This ability otherwise works like and replaces wild shape."
I searched just now and found a couple of threads debating the issue, here and here. It seems like the general opinion was leaning more towards "all normal wild shape, with the extra option of naga shape," but I guess its still up in the air. It would be awful for this build if it's not that way, but for now I'll just assume that it is.


Cool, I didn't read it that way, but can see now how that might be the intention. Pretty cool idea for a character.


Thanks. I imagine it would be fun to play, but with the pure quantity of feats and abilities that need to be combined, it would be a mess trying to bring them up from level 1, even if I could find a gestalt game to use it in. I had a great time making it, though.


Does anyone have any other comments or suggestions to improve the build?


Bump.


Updated build:

Vicious Wolf Toppler (in medium air elemental wild shape form, including buffs with a duration of 1 hour/level or longer) wrote:

Male human druid (naga aspirant) 9 // brawler (snakebite striker) 2/fighter (lore warden) 6/monk (master of many styles) 1

LN Medium humanoid (human)
Init +7; Senses darkvision 60 ft., Perception +20
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 32, touch 20 flat-footed 26 (+6 Dex, +4 armor, +4 shield, +4 natural, +2 deflection, +1 insight, +1 luck)
hp 95 (8d10+1d8+36)
Fort +19,
Ref +16,
Will +20,
Defensive Abilities aspirant’s enlightenment
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Offense
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Speed 50 ft., fly 70 ft. (perfect)
Melee +2 unarmed strike +22/+17 (1d6+13), slam +13 (1d6+9)
+2 unarmed strike brawler’s flurry +20/+20/+15 (1d6+13)
Special Attacks pack tactics 11/day, sneak attack +1d6, Stunning Fist 4/day (DC 22), weapon training (natural), wild shape 4/day, whirlwind (DC 12), Wolf Savage (DC 24)
Druid Spells Prepared (CL 9th; concentration +17)
5th - tireless pursuers, threefold aspect, wall of thorns
4th - echolocation, freedom of movement, greater invisibility, slowing mud (DC 22), strong jaw
3rd - aspect of the wolf, greater longstrider, greater magic fang, sleet storm, stone shape, suggestion (DC 21)
2nd - bloodhound, detect thoughts (DC 20), fog cloud, invisibility, mirror image, soften earth and stone (DC 20), vine strike (DC 20)
1st - hunter’s howl (DC 19), toppling magic missile x6
0 (at will) - create water, detect magic, light, spark
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 5, Dex 22, Con 16, Int 11, Wis 26, Cha 7
Base Atk +9; CMB +8 (+24 with unarmed strike, +28 trip with unarmed strike, +29 trip with Toppling Spell); CMD 24 (26 vs. trip, 29 vs. disarm and sunder)
Feats Ability Focus (Wolf Savage), Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Craft Wondrous Item, Fury’s Fall, Greater Trip, Improved Trip, Improved Unarmed Strike, Racial Heritage (Nagaji), Stunning Fist, Toppling Spell, Vicious Stomp, Weapon Finesse, Wolf Savage, Wolf Style, Wolf Trip
Traits Magical Lineage (magic missile), Snowstride
Skills Perception +20, Knowledge (nature) +14, Sense Motive +20, Spellcraft +12, Stealth +18
Languages Common, Druidic
SQ augmented form (charming gaze), wild empathy +7
Combat Gear first level pearl of power, second level pearl of power
Other Gear +1 brawling darkleaf studded leather armor, +2 darkwood heavy wooden shield, agile amulet of mighty fists / amulet of natural armor +1, belt of incredible dexterity +4, cloak of resistance +3, cracked dusty rose prism ioun stone, druid’s vestment, dusty rose prism ioun stone, gloves of dueling, jingasa of the fortunate soldier, ring of protection +2, spell component pouch

Level/Stat Breakdown:
Ability Scores (25 point buy)

Str: 7 (-4 points)
Dex: 16 (10 points) + 4 size + 4 enhancement - 2 penalty = 22
Con: 16 (10 points)
Int: 7 (-4 points) + 4 enhancement = 11
Wis: 18 (17 points) + 2 racial + 2 level + 4 enhancement = 26
Cha: 7 (-4 points)

1: Druid//Brawler BAB +1, Fort +2, Ref +2, Will +2
2: Druid//Fighter BAB +2, Fort +4, Ref +2, Will +3
3: Druid//Monk BAB +3, Fort +6, Ref +4, Will +5
4: Druid//Fighter BAB +4, Fort +7, Ref +4, Will +6
5: Druid//Brawler BAB +5, Fort +9, Ref +5, Will +6
6: Druid//Fighter BAB +6, Fort +10, Ref +6, Will +7
7: Druid//Fighter BAB +7, Fort +11, Ref +6, Will +7
8: Druid//Fighter BAB +8, Fort +12, Ref +6, Will +8
9: Druid//Fighter BAB +9, Fort +13, Ref +7, Will +9

1: Weapon Finesse
1-Brawler Bonus: Improved Unarmed Strike
1-Druid Bonus: Improved Trip
1-Human Bonus: Racial Heritage (Nagaji)
2-Fighter Bonus: Combat Reflexes
3: Craft Wondrous Item
3-Monk Bonus: Stunning Fist
3-Monk Bonus: Wolf Style
4-Fighter Bonus: Combat Expertise
5: Toppling Spell
5-Brawler Bonus: Vicious Stomp
6-Fighter Bonus: Wolf Trip
7: Fury’s Fall
7-Fighter Bonus: Greater Trip
9: Ability Focus (Wolf Savage)
9-Fighter Bonus: Wolf Savage

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