Uhhh, let me think.
Bloodrager/Oracle
Wizard or Arcanist/Magus
Paladin/Bard
Hunter/Druid
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Honestly anything that is single attribute dependant makes for powerful gestalt. So does anything that combines all 3 stats high with a max spell casting and Max bab class.
Some people approach it as one defensive and one offensive class in order to strike a good balance.
I personally have wanted to play a sorcerer/oracle for just the sheer amount of spellsat your disposal.
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Hello, everybody :)
I'm going to join a Pathfinder-group out of Gestalt characters. (Combining 2 Classes per level) Powerplaying is expressively allowed. Starting at lvl 2
The last time I played Pathfinder is some years, so I'm a bit out of form and not up to date. So I thought myself, I'll ask the well-educated community for advice^^
Does anyone know the most powerful combinations? Experiences? Calculations?
Since in the SLs world are magic items pretty rare, but creating them not prohibited or disadvantaged, I've built a mage/cleric to go for the mystic thaumaturge at fourth lvl and probably fighter for some feats. Everything necessary to create loads of magic items for the group and to be the groups "knowledge (all)-character". But I'm not really satisfied with the result. My stats are horrible, although we have 30 points to invest in attributes (instead of 25 on Epic-Fantasy).
We are also allowed one single magic item, which costs 4000 GM in max. Other money is just the 140 GM from lvl 1.I hope there are some good ideas :)
Advices to improve my mage/cleric-character would also be cool.
But I can totally understand everyone, who doesn't want to deal with the strange houseruling^^'
A good Alternative to your Mystic Theurge is just going with Oracle//Sorcerer and make sure you have Blood money, Lesser restoration, and Limited wish. Now you have access to most the spells in the game. You rely on 1 Stat (Cha). And you never need UMD as a skill.
If you want some awesome Martial Who just lays damage and is really hard to kill?
Paladin//Bloodrager (Rage and Smite)
You want a Good Combo of Melee and Casting?
Paladin//Sorcerer
Paladin//Oracle
Synthesist/Kensai or Wizard/Kensai
Depends on if you want raw physical power + action economy or spell power + action economy.
If you just want to make the DM cry: Barbarian/Rogue. Bonus points for Conan references while you play.
Mmmmmm... paladin/oracle vmc cavalier order of the stars... mmmmmm....
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Mmmmmm... paladin/oracle vmc cavalier order of the stars... mmmmmm....
I like Paladin//Bloodrager VMC Order of the Stars.
Smite + Challenge + Rage
if you go Arcane Bloodrager you can easily get Displacement when you rage and later game turn into Form of the Dragon 1.
Or Take Primalist and Trade off some of the lesser Powers for Beast totem line or Come and Get me.
Go Human and Grab Fey Foundling and Power attack Level 1...Level 5 Grab Raging Vitality. Your golden and everything else is just gravy (Like raging Brutality, Arcane Strike, and/or Improved critical)
Bloodrager / dragon desciple wrecks people hard
Paladin / Psychic Sorcerer
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Do you definitely want both arcane and divine casting, or was that just an initial idea?
What kind of stats are you working with? If you've got an extra-high point buy it's easier to handle classes whose stats don't line up well, but usually you want to have similar stat requirements for both classes
Do you know what the rest of the party will be playing?
My initial thoughts for good combos similar to wizard//cleric would be:
1) Empyreal Bloodline Sorcerer//Cleric. Spontaneous arcane and prepared divine casting, both based on Wis. Good Fort and Will saves, d8 HD and average BAB (fine for a caster). Skills are poor - consider Herald Caller cleric to get 4/level. Ecclesitheurge cleric is another good option since the restriction against armour is irrelevant to you and it adds some nice casting flexibility.
2) Sorcerer (Any)//Feyspeaker Druid. Spontaneous arcane and prepared divine casting, both based on Cha. Good Fort and Will saves, 6 skills/level, misc. goodies. Druid has some nice long-duration buffs, including wild shape (2 levels delayed) which improves action economy. Downside: only d6 HD and poor BAB. Not a disaster as long as you make sure to have an extra-good Con and watch other physical defenses. Wild Shape helps.
3) Feyspeaker Druid//Oracle. Spontaneous and prepared divine casting with a diverse list of spells (including more arcane-like blasting and control) and lots of other goodies including some long-duration or passive abilities. Good Fort and Will saves, d8 HD and average BAB, 6 skills/level. Can wear armour!
4) Wizard//Mindchemist Alchemist. ALL good saves, d8 HD and average BAB, 4 skills/level plus your massive Int and a big bonus to Knowledge skills. Alchemist extracts and bombs round out your wizard spells with extra control or blasting options, the ability to share personal-range buffs, and some curatives. Cognatagen boosts your Int, thus your DCs for everything and bomb damage. You can also pick up passive defensive discoveries. Wizard doesn't play very well with divine casters but if you're set on wizard and want healing this is very good.
"Most powerful," how?
Melee combat? Alchemist (beastmorph, vivisectionist) X//bloodrager (primalist; Draconic bloodline) 5/dragon disciple 4/bloodrager +Y is pretty brutal.
Mix of melee and spells? Cleric (negative energy) X//magus (take the Broad Study arcana at 6th level) X can be nasty; pick up Versatile Channeler for some healing and utility against undead.
Ranged combat? Monk (zen archer) X//ranger 1/sorcerer (wildblooded; Celestial/Empyreal bloodline) 7/arcane archer 3/sorcerer +Y can pull off some pretty sick tricks.
Master of many magics? Human (favored class shaman for the bonus cleric spells) Arcanist (Magaambyan initiate) 6/Magaambyan arcanist 10/arcanist +X//shaman (speaker for the past; Lore spirit) Y can gain access to spells from three different lists (cleric, druid, and sorcerer/wizard; at least to some extent) and has a lot of flexibility.
Or maybe a skald X//summoner (master summoner) X to flood the battlefield with minions that gain the benefit of your Raging Song?
I'm currently playing an Admixture Evoker Wizard/Inspired Chemist Grenadier Alchemist.
It's tons of fun making things go boom.
There's some fun potential in mixing a Fighter with something that can get a lot of attacks. Something like a Vivisectionist Alchemist loaded up with tentacles and stuff. High static damage boosts + extra damage like Sneak Attack can utterly wreck things.
How about paladin//synthesist summoner? Swift action self-healing + fused eidolon's temporary hit points from living armor.
The downside? Probably reduced ability scores for your physical stats. Might be more viable for a lower point buy.
Maybe an arcanist//synthesist summoner? You can max out your mental stats, then use the eidolon's physical stats.
I'm a bloodrager/synth summoner fan. Elemental bloodline of course.
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Normally, prestige classes like Mystic Theurge aren't allowed for Gestalt. Definitely check before you go too far down that path.
This is very true.
However, if "Powerplaying is expressly allowed" means your GM has made the questionable balance choice to allow all prestige classes... then absolutely go Empyreal Sorcerer//Cleric and then switch to Mystic Theurge//Unchained Monk for ALL THE WIN*
*Here defined as two full casting progressions, almost full BAB, fantastic saves, a host of defensive and mobility related powers all based on your single casting stat, and a punch that could have anything from Stunning Fist to Chill Touch to Harm attached.
Hmmm, maybe a Hospitaler Paladin / Life Oracle?
If Oradin werent powerful enough with multiclassing, imagne when its allowed full progression in both.
Summoner+Skald
(Raging/Buffed Eidolon!)
Here is a list of gestalts I've made over the years. Warning! Please check these before you plug and play, stuff has been Errata'd since it's been made, I specifically remember sound striker Bard being Errata'd into garbage so you may want to change the archetype(unless you can get your DM to use the original version). Some of these may also have had rolled stats or house rules in them, I honestly don't remember.
Duetist Bard + Dual Curse Oracle http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=431073
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=444111
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=489410
Inquisitor + Zen Archer
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=362039
Fireball User
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=414206
Killua from Hunter x Hunter(Impressively powerful but a bit wonky in terms of classes, I slightly remember this one requiring that you take the levels in a specific order for prerequisites or something so check that)
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=160031
On mobile right now but I think I also have lower level and less conveluted versions of the fireball User and the Bard/Oracle. Will put them up when I get home.
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Hello, everybody :)
I'm going to join a Pathfinder-group out of Gestalt characters. (Combining 2 Classes per level) Powerplaying is expressively allowed. Starting at lvl 2
The last time I played Pathfinder is some years, so I'm a bit out of form and not up to date. So I thought myself, I'll ask the well-educated community for advice^^
Does anyone know the most powerful combinations? Experiences? Calculations?
Since in the SLs world are magic items pretty rare, but creating them not prohibited or disadvantaged, I've built a mage/cleric to go for the mystic thaumaturge at fourth lvl and probably fighter for some feats. Everything necessary to create loads of magic items for the group and to be the groups "knowledge (all)-character". But I'm not really satisfied with the result. My stats are horrible, although we have 30 points to invest in attributes (instead of 25 on Epic-Fantasy).
We are also allowed one single magic item, which costs 4000 GM in max. Other money is just the 140 GM from lvl 1.I hope there are some good ideas :)
Advices to improve my mage/cleric-character would also be cool.
But I can totally understand everyone, who doesn't want to deal with the strange houseruling^^'
Personally my favorite is a UnchainedMonk/Druid/Barbarian. UnchainedMonk 20, Druid 8+, Barbarian 4+, Fighter 5+. It's even reasonable to add in Crusader Cleric for the free weapon focus, then pick up Crusader's Flurry. Personally I like rolling with Shizuru so you can Daze stuff when you hit it, with no save. Plus dat Katana tho. It's a feat-starved build, but that's why the fighter levels come in handy and give you some +1s.
By level 10 you can reach 12d8 Unarmed Strike damage(not including all of the strength damage and power attack damage and many others), but if you include Ascetic Style that US damage can be used with a weapon instead. Personally I enjoy tossing my weapon in the air as a "distraction" that doesn't really do anything than make cool moments, transform into a huge air elemental, catching the sword and it auto-resizing, then swinging(next round) for horrendous damage on top of ridiculous defensive stats. It's very powerful, but I don't know that it's the "most powerful". It's definitely a martial build too, less such a caster.
I can email you or link you a spreadsheet if you want.
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A player in a game I'm in is gestalting a Zen Archer Monk with arcane archer magus. He is ridiculously destructive.
I don't know about most powerful, but I want to play a paladin//ninja someday. Full BAB, all good saves (boosted by Cha!), d10 HD, 8+ skills, healing, sneak attack, smite, ki, ki powers, ninja tricks, spells for zest.
@SmiloDan: Archetyped Paladin yes; I had a Player run a Divine Hunter to complement the Rogue(Unchained) half of his Gestalt -the stock Heavy Armor Proficiency served no purpose except fodder for archetype trade-off, and the kept Medium Armor Proficiency allowed hassle-free wear of Mithrilled Medium Armors counting as light armor for rogue purposes but still meeting the pre-reqs to wear medium without penalty. Survival rate increased immensely. Another reason is that he took the Rogue's active Action Economy style and it meshed well with a lot of the Paladin's passive abilities like Lay on Hands and pre-encounter buffs. This was a case of versatility vs win-condition one-trick-pony. It was a fine balance of BAB, Saves, Skill, HP -which is a very commendable strategy at the expense of MAD, hence the focus into archery as primary DPS.
"Powerful" as in highest DCs achieved to save against or stacking bonuses I agree with the SAD tactic. An Arcanist/Wizard would be so focused on their specialties so as to be overwhelming. A lot of Gestalts opt for closing all gaps/versatility, but there's something to be said for focused builds such as a Magus(Myrmidarch) spliced into Gunslinger(Pistolero).
EX: Spell Combat, Two-Weapon Fighting, Ranged Spellstrike combining with a single pistol(revolver, cartridges, rapid reload) performing a full-round-attack(haste?)reloading each shot as a free action and with the right the "Close Range" Magus Arcana can be dumping lead and magic at the same time in the manner that Wizard(Spellslinger) could only dream of and weep at. Adding in Spellstrike and Haste, is that up to seven (Rapid Shot?) ranged attacks a round versus Touch AC if within first range bracket?
I've only played Gestalt twice: once as a one-shot power-play session, and the other in clearing Council of Thieves with 1 PC and DMNPC in a one-player campaign. Gnome Slayer/Oracle(Dual-Cursed, Seeker) may not be optimal, but along with the Sylph Paladin(Divine Hunter)/Rogue(Unchained) it allowed two characters to survive and thrive. Would like to play Druid(Saurian Shaman)/Ninja just to in-effect roleplay Jurassic Park.
Magus/Alchemist
Magus/Alchemist
Could an Eldritch Archer Magus/Alchemist Spellstrike with a thrown bomb? Because that would be funny. Maybe even add the Grenadier alchemical damage.
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"Powerful" as in highest DCs achieved to save against or stacking bonuses I agree with the SAD tactic. An Arcanist/Wizard would be so focused on their specialties so as to be overwhelming.
Not really.
The arcanist//wizard doesn't actually have any stronger spells than a plain wizard. Arcane reservoir only works on arcanist spells. There are a handful of exploits that will add functionality to wizard casting (like Shift Caster or Metamagic Knowledge for more bonus metamagic feats) but mostly arcanist//wizard is about having access to a wider range of wizard spells and supernatural abilities, not increased potency.
The best way to get a focused gestalt is not to combine two similar classes, but to combine classes that have abilities that complement the same focus.
Like the Mindchemist//Wizard, with an Int-boosting cognatogen which adds +2 to +4 to the DCs of all wizard spells.
Or the Mesmerist//Heavens Oracle, which gets to stack Mental Potency and Awesome Display to hike the number of HD it can effect with illusion spells, reduce the target's effective HD for purposes of being affected by illusion (pattern) spells, and apply a penalty to will saves, for a ridiculously potent Colour Spray.
It's even easier to get overwhelmingly focused martial//martial options. Like brawler//rogue flurry of sneak attack. Or barbarian//hunter amplified ferocious mounted ragelancepounce.
Note that some of these combos are also fairly versatile. The mindchemist//wizard has all good saves, a d8 HD, and buckets of skill points. The barbarian//hunter gets two good saves, lots of skills, and partial spellcasting.
A lot of Gestalts opt for closing all gaps/versatility, but there's something to be said for focused builds such as a Magus(Myrmidarch) spliced into Gunslinger(Pistolero).
Yes there is.
Full BAB plus lots of combat bonuses.
All good saves.
Partial spellcasting.
Decent skills.
Though Gunslinger//Eldritch Archer is probably better as a focused ranged build, since it can use spell combat with a ranged weapon (action economy!) and gets ranged spellstrike earlier.
That's why Ranger or Slayer//pretty much any spellcaster is a nice, easy to use gestalt. Full BAB, all good saves (usually), d10 HD, 6+ skills (tons of skills if Int-based caster!), spells, and all the ranger or slayer treats.
Side question: How would a ranger/druid gestalt with the shapeshifting hunter work math wise? Would they increase the things modified by the feat by level x2?
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@Topic:
I know a Fighter/investigator with a reach weapon. A damage machine.
- full bab + buffs + studied combat
- all good saves (+bravery if we want to mention it)
- d10
- 6+int skills + free inspiration dice
- mobility in armor
- lots of feats + talents
Most of the time it is good to look at swift actions: You want to be able to use them but you do not want to have too many abilitie that need them.
For that reason inquisitor/magus would be a suboptimal gestalt as both need swift actions.
And if you got one clas with strong standard actions (casting for example) you should look for uses for your move action, too. Besides moving, that is.
What is less useful under gestalt and more so with over-high pointbuy are animal companions.*
*Unless you build for a strong AC. That might be possible.
With a high pointbuy a daring champion cavalier/ magus might be nice.
You could even make him bladebound with a rapier to bypass the reduced magic item availability.
Another option would be druid/sacred fist warpriest. You get full casting, monks's ac bonus, swift action tricks.
If you want to cast turn into something little that can fly, if you want to melee turn into something big and strong and use unarmed strikes or natural attacks depending on the form.
Edit:
If 3pp is allowed I'd look into Aegis/divine caster or perhaps aberrant aegis/druid for wildshape + tentacle action.
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Side question: How would a ranger/druid gestalt with the shapeshifting hunter work math wise? Would they increase the things modified by the feat by level x2?
RAW yes, but as Gestalt is basically a house rule in the first place a GM may restrict such feats on the grounds that they weren't intended to be used with gestalt.
Gestalt Kitsune Fey Sorcerer/Mesmerist. Suppose its going to be hard finding a humanoid with a will save hard enough to resist your lure.
Magus/Alchemist
Changed my mind
Magus/Occultist
