Owner - D20 Hobbies
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I'm trying to determine if there is anything to challenge Full Plate with a Tower Shield for the King of the AC hill on a budget of 20,000 gp and a 20 point buy.
I'm interested in PFS legal material and doing so without gimping the character's offensive capabilities beyond average.
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I'm trying to determine if there is anything to challenge Full Plate with a Tower Shield for the King of the AC hill on a budget of 20,000 gp and a 20 point buy.
I'm interested in PFS legal material and doing so without gimping the character's offensive capabilities beyond average.
Are we looking ata 6th level PC, or just a thought exercise?
And PFS Standard, yes?
A dex based monk would probably give some competition to full plate and a tower shield.
Assuming level six and the 20k is supposed to cover all gear, not just defensive gear here's what I rough out.
Gear
Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists 4000 GP
Ring of Protection +1 2000 GP
Wand of Mage Armor (would realistically be purchased with prestige in PFS but whatever) 750 GP
Cloak of Resistance +2 4000 GP
Belt of Incredible Dexterity +2 4000 GP
5250 GP for other miscellaneous gear, likely expendables
AC 28 (Dex +6, Dodge +1, +4 Armor bonus from mage armor, Natural Armor from barkskin +3, +2 Wisdom bonus, +1 for being a level six monk, +1 deflection bonus)
flat footed 21
touch 21
My guess is that`s fairly competitive with the plate and shield a bit at this wealth level (though possibly lags a little behind if the armored character is focused on tanking) but from my experience the dex based monk scales really well past level six without much investment and can get close to broken if you want to dump all your resources into tanking. By the time my character reached level 11 she had an AC around 37 and was doing respectable damage for a light weapon fighter.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Plain Fighter:
DEX 12
+1 Full Plate (2650 gp)
+1 Darkwood Tower Shield (1630 gp)
Ring of Protection (2000 gp)
+1 weapon (2300 gp)
Cloak of Resistance (4000 gp)
Jingasa (5600 gp)
1800 gp remaining
AC 10 +11(+1 Plate and defender trait) + 5 (Shield) + 1 DEX + 1 RoP + 1 Jingasa = AC 29
Doesn't require any actions to gain 7 AC (natural/mage armor).
The 16 AC from Armor/Shield is hard to offset, and any money spent on AC for a dex Monk will be as effective on a plate and tower shield fighter.
I had hoped to find something competitive, but I've spent hours trying to think of a way around that problem. But I haven't seen much.
The action economy of the barkskin and mage armor only really matters in an ambush since they`re both one hour buffs at this level. And really the two turns it takes to get them up doesn`t seem like much compared to the minutes it takes to properly don full plate.
I will concede that levels five and six were likely the worst levels for my dex based monk, so the 20,000 GP cap does hurt the analysis a little bit.
Personally I found the main virtue of the dex monk was that things that increased my AC also tended to help my damage output. At level seven I picked up monks robes to boost my AC by 2 and increase my unarmed strike to 2d6 (just about the only level that wondrous item is ever worth while) then I paid the atonement to shift alignment to abandon monk in favour of urban barbarian levels. Raging to increase both damage and AC is nice. The character only really got silly in scenarios where spell casters made reduce person available, hard to say no to increasing static damage and AC at the expense of slightly smaller damage dice. Uncanny dodge also carried the benefit that both touch and flat footed AC were respectable while the classic sword and board build tends to be very vulnerable to touch attacks.
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Flowing Monk with Crane style.
Dex 18/20
Wis 17
Belt of Inc Dex +2 (4000)
Dusty Rose Prism Ioun Stone (5000)
Cracked Vibrant Purple Prism Ioun Stone (2000)
Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier (5000)
Potion of Barkskin (300)
Ring of Protection (2000)
Wand of Mage Armor (750)
Wand of Shield (750)
200g remaining
AC 10 +4 (mage armor) +4 (shield) +5 (Dex) +3 (Wis), +1 (insight) +1 (monk) +1 (luck) +2 (natural) +1 (deflection) +16 (dodge (+4 (Ki defense) +3 (flowing dodge (3 enemies adjacent)) +1 (dodge feat) + 4 (fighting defensively (+2 normal, +1 crane style, +1 acrobatics) +4 (in melee with crane wing until missed by 4 or less) = 48
With a -2 to fight defensively. The 2 wands would probably have been PP purchases along with a wand of Barkskin, would have made one of the 5k purchases an amulet of agile instead to add dex to unarmed damage for a +7 to hit and 1d8+5 damage or flurry for +7/+7/+2 1d8+5.
Alternatively, you could also get a couple of pearls of power and ask friendly spell casters if they'd cast some of the spells instead of using the wands so that they'd last longer, but that's more if you have a regular group like we did.
Shield does take a standard action to activate with the ioun stone and with the wand would only last 1 minute and Ki Defense is a swift action and at 6th lvl there's only 6 ki points, so you can't have the 48 AC all the time, but still.
My wife basically took this character from 1st through Eyes of 10. She also tripped and redirected and had a few other fun surprises as well as an insane AC. GM could only hit on a 20.
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Nagaji Urban Bloodrager 3 / Alchemist 4 / Duelist 3
Dex 16 (20 while Controlled Bloodraging, 24 with Mutagen)
Int 16
Still have 5 points for other attributes.
Fate's Favored trait.
Dodge, Mobility, Weapon Finesse feats required for Duelist. Still have feats left.
Ring of Protection +1 (2000) +1 AC
Amulet of Natural Armor +1 (2000) +1 AC
Jingasa (5600) +1 AC
Shield Spell in wand (750) +4 AC
Mage Armor spell in wand (750) +4 AC
Has about 9K left for cloak of resistance, magic weapon, etc.
10 +4 (mage armor) +4 (shield spell) +7 (fully pumped Dex) +3 (canny defense from Int) +1 (dodge feat) +1 (Natural Armor) +1 (ring) +1 (amulet) +1 (Jingasa) +1 (Fate's Favored) = 34 AC while in Controlled Bloodrage and using mutagen..
Fighting Defensively and other things could raise it higher. Would have the Int, open feat and BAB to be able to use Combat Expertise and still hit.
Bloodrager gives Uncanny Dodge at level 2, so we don't lose the Dex, Dodge feat and Int bonus from the Duelist's Canny Defense ability. Kansai Magus would also allow for Canny Defense at the cost of BAB.
Note that the only thing we are getting from Nagaji is the Natural Armor. You could also easily do this via Half-Orc and maybe Dwarf with the Ironhide feat.
With higher wealth you could eventually buy Celestial Armor assuming you went the Duelist rather than Kensai route. With higher level you can get more Canny Defense by investing in Int.
I'm sure others could improve on this.
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Monetary wise tower shield, heavy armor, and the usual magic items are the way to go. But class, feats, or race can add even more. How high do you want to go?
Crusader archtype
I like martial characters better, despite the fact that spells are more powerful.
I had hoped to find a non-gimp offensive melee with AC 27 or more by level 3, like what can be done with Heavy Armor and Tower Sheild.
Raising that to AC 32 or so by level 7 without doing what I've done in the past (spend nearly 100% of my wealth on AC gear.)
Flowing Monk with AC 48
Flowing Monk with Crane seems possible (AC 27 with just mage armor and 35 defensive).
Is it difficult to hit always fighting defensive?
Action economy is always an issue for me, usually combat is over before you can contribute if you use your first round to buff.
Mage Armor is fine as a cast spell by level 7 or so. I'd rather go the Pearl of Power route than the wand route.
Nagaji Urban Bloodrager 3 / Alchemist 4 / Duelist 3
The Nagaji is for the Natural Armor, the Bloodrager 2 gives Uncanny Dodge for flatfoot/invis protection, and alchemist is for mutagen?
This also seems promising.
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Flowing Monk with AC 48Flowing Monk with Crane seems possible (AC 27 with just mage armor and 35 defensive).
Is it difficult to hit always fighting defensive?
Action economy is always an issue for me, usually combat is over before you can contribute if you use your first round to buff.
Mage Armor is fine as a cast spell by level 7 or so. I'd rather go the Pearl of Power route than the wand route.
At 7th you can take crane riposte which makes the penalty for fighting defensively -1. Obviously using weapon finesse and agile amulet of mighty fist makes it better in combat.
Between being able to trip when someone attacks her and her huge AC, she's pretty tough. One thing that hurts is if she can't attack in a round her AC drops big time. She took to having shurikens just so that if she couldn't get to an enemy in a round she could still throw a shuriken to attack defensively. :) Also went ki throw so she could reposition and trip them.
Had a guy in our local area that if you weren't playing a straight martial he'd give you grief, and would outright backhand insult those that wanted to play monks. After seeing her monk in action, it shut him up. ;)
Nagaji Urban Bloodrager 3 / Alchemist 4 / Duelist 3The Nagaji is for the Natural Armor, the Bloodrager 2 gives Uncanny Dodge for flatfoot/invis protection, and alchemist is for mutagen?
This also seems promising.
Yes.
The advantage of the Urban Bloodrager archetype is no AC penalty for Controlled Bloodrage and it can pump your Dex.
Realized that the Alchemist extracts could include Reduce Person for another +2 AC. At 4th level of Alchemist there is also Blur and Cat's Grace for short term buffs.
As I said, probably more that can be done here. Most of the class advantages can come online by level 3 (Urban Bloodrager 2 / Alchemist 1).
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Alchemists have a pretty easy time buffing their AC, between mutagen, Barkskin, Shield, not being bothered by spell failure chance, and perhaps recycling some other AC-enhancing potions with Alchemical Allocation.
And then you add not-quite AC defences that synergize well with good AC: Displacement, Greater Invisibility, Ablative Barrier, Stoneskin...
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I think I've found a workable build.
Kitsune
STR 5 DEX 16 CON 15 INT 15 WIS 8 CHA 17 (includes racial & 20 point buy)
Traits: Fate's FavoredBuild:
1 Monk (Unchained): Dodge(b), Weapon Finesse(L), Medium Haramaki
2 Paladin (Iroran): Confident Defense (Cha to Dex to AC)
3 Monk: Evasion, Combat Reflexes(b), Fox Shape(L)
4 Paladin: Divine Grace (Cha to saves), Lay on Hands, Change Shape (fox for +4 DEX/+1 NAC/-2 STR and speed 40'), CHA now 18
5 Paladin: Mercy, Piranha Strike(L)
6 Fighter (Lore Warden): Lunge(b)(*)
7 Magus (Kensai): Weapon Focus Unarmed Strike(b) Unknown Feat?(L), Canny Defense (Int to AC)Items:
Amulet of Mighty Fists Agile (4000 gp)
+1 brawling fire-forged tiny haramaki (5000 gp; AC 0+1; Fire Resist 2, Brawling)
Pearl of Power (1000 gp; Mage Armor for party members)
Ring of Eloquence (3400 gp)
Jingasa of Fortuneate Soldier (5000 gp; melded so can't use 1/day)
18,401 gp spent
Effects:
Permanently in Fox form(*)
Mage Armor
Stats:
HP 52
AC 27 (10 + 4 mage armor + 5 DEX + 1 dodge + 3 confident + 2 luck + 1 NAC + 1 Canny -2 Lunge +2 size)
Saves Fort 14, Reflex 13, Will 6
CMB 9
CMD 15
Melee Unarmed +11/+6 1d3+11, Bite +3 1d3+9
Space 2 1/2 ft Reach 5 ft (Lunge)
Plus I have room to grow. The next 2 levels of Paladin give me an AC per level and the next 2 levels of Magus give me an AC per level. Plus I don't have the standard Ring of Protection, Cloak of Resistance, Dusty Rose, Pale Green attack and saves, Headband of INT and CHA would give me more levels of Magus/Paladin respectively, Belt of DEX for more attack, AC, damage and Bodywraps for bonus to attacks/damage.
Levels in Iroran Paladin and Monk may or may not stack, so the next level of Paladin I take will raise my Unarmed to 1d4 if they do, or remain 1d3 if not.
I'll permanently use Lunge, every round and the -2 AC is reflected in my AC
I think this is a comparable build to a semi optimized Fighter build, for example this one:
HP 69 AC 28 FRW 12/7/2 CMB 11 CMD 20 Atk 11/6 Dmg 1d8+12 GP 23430
Power Attack, Weapon Spec, Toughness
+1 Sword, Tower Shield, Pale Green Saves, Hellknight Plate, Dusty Rose/Wayfinder, Jingasa, Cloak of Resistance
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Totally reworded this build into maybe a better solution.
Kitsune Perma Fox 2.0
Main Items:
Luckyhorshoe/Jingasa, without Lunge, Ring of Eloquence, and Agile Amulet
AC 30 (Touch 25) and -2 with Lunge, F/R/W 16/16/10, HP 62
Speed 40
CMB 15 CMD 23 (Greater and Quick Dirty Trick)
19.2 DPR vs AC 20 and 26.7 DPR if Sneak Attack
Fighter, +1 Full-Plate, +1 HShield, AoNAC, and Luckyhorshoe/Jingasa
AC 31 (Touch 16), F/R/W 9/7/4 HP 80
Speed 35
CMB 14 CMD 28 (Greater Sunder)
DPR vs AC 20 22.77
Both can add Ring of Protection, Dusty Rose, etc. that are common to all.
14,000 gp both get +3 AC unique to them:
Fox can add DEX, CHA, and WIS items for +3 AC.
Fighter can +2 to Full Plate, and +1 AoNA
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Looks like I'll forever be about 3 points behind the fighter. At least until I buy +4 (CHA/WIS headband) and +4 DEX Belt on the Fox. Which is 42,000 gp of extra wealth that needs to be spent to "meet" Generic Fighter.
I've avoided Fighting defensively paths. Mostly because I don't have the spare feats and there is much GM deviation on how exactly you can activate fighting defensively.
The extra 18 HP the Fighter has (mostly do to feat feasting), is probably made up for the extra save bonuses?
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Actual builds if curious:
Race Kitsune
STR 7-2 DEX 15+2 CON 14 INT 8 WIS 15 CHA 15+2Traits:
T1.0 Adopted (Social; +Halfling)
T1.1 Equality for All (Regional/Halfling; Andoran; +2 CMB/CMD Medium+)
T2 Fate’s Favored (Faith; +1 Luck to all things that are Luck bonuses)1 Swashbuckler (Mouser) 1
+Level - Weapon Finesse (-)
2 Unchained Monk (Monk of the Mantis) 1
+Bonus Dodge (Dex 13)
3 Paladin (Iroran Paladin) 1
+Level - Fox Shape (Cha 13, BAB+3, Kitsune)
4 Paladin 2
=Dex +1
5 Fighter (Lore Warden) 1
+Level Toughness
+Bonus Mobility (Dodge)
6 Fighter 2
+Bonus Combat Expertise (-)
~Retrain Toughness -> Lunge (BAB +6; 5 Days & 300 gp)
~Retrain Mobility -> Improved Dirty Trick (Int 13, Combat Expertise; 5 days & 300 gp)
+Bonus Quick Dirty Trick (Improved Dirty Trick, BAB+6)
7 Monk 2
+Level Greater Dirty Trick (Improved Dirty Trick, BAB+6)
8 Paladin 3
=Cha +1
9 Paladin 4
+Level Accomplished Sneak Attack (Sneak Attack)
10 Paladin 10
11 Monk 3
+Level Dirty Fighting20,000 gp: Lucky Horseshow (+2 luck to saves), Ring of Eloquence (speak), Jingasa of Fortuneate Soldier (+2 luck to AC; melded so can't activate), Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists
Fox Shape activated, Lunge not activated.
Generic Figher:
Weapon Training Axe, Dodge, Power Attack, Improved Sunder, Greater Sunder, Toughness, Tribal Scars Raptorscale, Vital Strike, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization
Defenders of the Society (+1 AC)
Fate's Favored
+1 gandasa (hard target - could swap for longsword for easy targets)
+1 full plate and +1 darkwood heavy wooden shield
Amulet of Natural Armor +1
Jingasa of the fortuneate soldier
Lucky Horseshoe
Responding to this thread to track it...sounds like a good discussion.
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I'm trying to determine if there is anything to challenge Full Plate with a Tower Shield for the King of the AC hill on a budget of 20,000 gp and a 20 point buy.
I'm interested in PFS legal material and doing so without gimping the character's offensive capabilities beyond average.
My Thoughts are:
Usually a Monk can get some really high AC.
My main thought.
AC hahahaha. Pathfinder favors Layered defenses. Tho a Moderate AC is still somewhat needed.
Arcane Bloodrager @ 4 get a 20% Miss chance. @ 8 you get a 50% miss chance when you turn rage on. Just buy +1 Mithral Breastplate armor, Ring, Neck, and Jingasa. If you require more AC then Shield+cat's Grace boost it further.
Typically when I play my Spell Eater Bloodrager I have typically:
24-16ish AC (While Raging), Free action Choice of Displacement, Haste, or Resist Energy, Fast Healing 3-8 (depends on level), 1/day Crit negation, Immunity to Evil domination/possession via wayfinder/clear spindal, Temporary HP, and I tend to cast a lot of Ablative Barrier to basically double my Fast healing returns. All while sporting a Crazy HP pool and Very high Damage. At higher levels I can pick up DR as well with stoneskin or other magical sources. Basically a ton of Layers of Defenses for an enemy to have to get through before he is actually doing any kind of significant harm to me.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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AC hahahaha. Pathfinder favors Layered defenses. Tho a Moderate AC is still somewhat needed.
Layered as in good:
ACHP
Saves
Resistances and Immunities
DR
Miss Chance
If so, I agree. But AC is the one you need to be in the front line. It is the one, from my experience, that is far more important. There are a lot more straight combat encounters than ones that have dangerous "save of suck" conditions.
If I can at least get in the "normal monsters need a 17 to hit me" range (auch as AC 30 at level 7), then I'm in better shape.
I've always found Monk's way less AC than any other type that can wear full plate. Most of my characters are Monk-ish, some of them have 2 levels in Monks but are wearing Full Plate and negating Fast Movement, Flurry, and the AC bonus to get more AC.
I also have issues with action economy, with the vast majority of all combats over by the end of round 2 you can't really afford to burn the first turn buffing. Well, if you'd like to contribute anything other than burning a daily resource.
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Trust me, if you get your AC too high to be hit as often as the GM thinks you should be; suddenly Save or Suck spells will become a LOT more common. If your saves are too high, it will be spells without saves or AC. If you have DR, you may find yourself up against whatever penetrates it. If you have miss chance, people will have true-seeing.
Its not the GM wanting to kill you, usually, its him wanting to threaten you. If he can't threaten your character there is not much tension to build a story around. The goal is to be just survivable enough to live without drawing Ire.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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This is PFS, so the GM can't deviate from the modules/scenarios that way. So I'll be perfectly safe.
A little word about me, I like to play melee characters that are front line fighter types and tend to draw a lot of attention from the NPC and/or the GM.
I've played one to level 12, another to 11, a third to 10, and a fourth to 7 plus a couple to level 2, 4, and 6.
On the last one, I found I just got hit way too much and died twice in the space of 5 modules. I then re-tooled to be Full Plate with AC 34 and didn't have any trouble from the rest of level 7 to level 11.
Other characters that are backup/support melee (rogue, magus, monk) are fine at AC below 30 range. I just don't like those.
Trust me, if you get your AC too high to be hit as often as the GM thinks you should be; suddenly Save or Suck spells will become a LOT more common. If your saves are too high, it will be spells without saves or AC. If you have DR, you may find yourself up against whatever penetrates it. If you have miss chance, people will have true-seeing.
Its not the GM wanting to kill you, usually, its him wanting to threaten you. If he can't threaten your character there is not much tension to build a story around. The goal is to be just survivable enough to live without drawing Ire.
I REALLY hate when GMs do that. May as well be a normal, vanilla mediocre-at-everything character if the GM is going to just adjust it so you always fail a certain percent of the time.
PFS is good stuff for that then, I like to adapt to my players too much to run modules as-is.
And yeah, it sucks when a GM gets over-eager with adjusting enemy strength vs PCs. I feel like it is important to always challenge your PCs in combat, challenge not destroy. Though token rewarding combat where you cannot be touched is fun on the odd occasion.
When adjusting for PC strength, I always make sure if an enemy has a strength, they have a weakness as well. People need to feel like they are useful and their build matters, otherwise like you said they would just build an average character. So I try to give my enemies the same kinds of mixed weaknesses that PCs usually have. High AC/Low Save brutes or High HP/DR Brutes with next to no AC, mixed with High Save/Low AC backline, and etc.
Anyway, since I've posted twice I'll min-max up a build. Can someone tell me if Variable Multiclass is allowed in PFS?
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Variable Multiclass is allowed in PFS?
No.
These things are allowed and banned - The Additional Resources list
Well that does my whole build in, but I'll leave this thread with something helpful regardless. Goblins. Sneaky little devils with +4 to Dexterity and small size, thats already 3 free AC but they also have the amazing feat "Roll With It" that allows you to completely negate a single physical attacker every single round. Sure you are staggered, but that is what spellcasters are for!
You can be among the front lines, especially as say a Reach Cleric/Oracle/Shaman, and spend your turn moving or casting and your immediate actions bouncing around like mad. I suggest a Shaman so you can have a Protector Familiar sit on your shoulder and Aid Another you every single round for free AC.
-Skills-
Who cares?
Ranks in acrobatics can up the AC bounus given by total defense.
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This is PFS, so the GM can't deviate from the modules/scenarios that way. So I'll be perfectly safe.
A little word about me, I like to play melee characters that are front line fighter types and tend to draw a lot of attention from the NPC and/or the GM.
I've played one to level 12, another to 11, a third to 10, and a fourth to 7 plus a couple to level 2, 4, and 6.
On the last one, I found I just got hit way too much and died twice in the space of 5 modules. I then re-tooled to be Full Plate with AC 34 and didn't have any trouble from the rest of level 7 to level 11.
Other characters that are backup/support melee (rogue, magus, monk) are fine at AC below 30 range. I just don't like those.
You could just go the complete opposite way.
6th level unchained barbarian (invulnerable rager) with 23 Con (20 + 4th level +2 belt), Tribal Scars, and Toughness. Spend your favored class bonuses and PP on the extra HP retraining. AC=irrelevantThat'll get you 99 HP plus whatever you can get from the retraining. Add another 12 temporary when you rage and DR 3/- . Anything you can't kill with that reservoir is probably something you should be running away from anyway.
Take Regenerative Stance and plan on Increased Damage Reduction starting at level 8.
Yeah, it has to be a protector familiar archetype or one with 5ft of reach. Otherwise the familiar's arms are too short.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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opposite way.
6th level unchained barbarian (invulnerable rager) with 23 Con (20 + 4th level +2 belt), Tribal Scars, and Toughness. Spend your favored class bonuses and PP on the extra HP retraining. AC=irrelevant
Last character was that way, Ulfen Guard (Rage), Con 14, Toughness, Tribal Scars, Shawl of Lifekeeping, Multiple Temporary HP items, Die-Hard, Destroyers Blessing (gain 1 rage round and 1 hp if you break something - Sunder and had Greater Sunder with Adamantine so breaking was my thing and hurting you when I do it - bonus).
A little over 110 HP at the beginning of the day at level 7.
I had AC 27 to AC 29 at the time.
Died twice.
Remember AC 27 requires "on average" a 14 to hit you.
That means 35% of the time you are taking damage and 5% or so a LOT.
Raising the AC from AC 27 to AC 30 drops this to 15%, which is like doubling your HP.
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I'm trying to determine if there is anything to challenge Full Plate with a Tower Shield for the King of the AC hill on a budget of 20,000 gp and a 20 point buy.
I'm interested in PFS legal material and doing so without gimping the character's offensive capabilities beyond average.
Does it matter if the AC is contextual or has a limited effective Duration?
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Plain Fighter:
DEX 12
+1 Full Plate (2650 gp)
+1 Darkwood Tower Shield (1630 gp)
Ring of Protection (2000 gp)
+1 weapon (2300 gp)
Cloak of Resistance (4000 gp)
Jingasa (5600 gp)
1800 gp remainingAC 10 +11(+1 Plate and defender trait) + 5 (Shield) + 1 DEX + 1 RoP + 1 Jingasa = AC 29
Doesn't require any actions to gain 7 AC (natural/mage armor).
The 16 AC from Armor/Shield is hard to offset, and any money spent on AC for a dex Monk will be as effective on a plate and tower shield fighter.
I had hoped to find something competitive, but I've spent hours trying to think of a way around that problem. But I haven't seen much.
Same thing, but with a cleric and you upgrade the shield with Sanctified Shield instead of the Defender of Society Trait. You'd still need Heavy Armor and Tower Shield feats, but you can one of those with the Crusader Archetype and the other as a starting feat. +100gp and you have a freed trait. You also now have a caster, which can use Shield of Faith (+2 deflection to AC, +1 per six levels)
Only works once per round, but you can abuse the hell out of Snake Style.
Investigator (Empiricist) 6
Human
Int 20
(other stats aren't meaningful for this idea, so put them wherever you'd like)
Class abilities: Ceaseless Observation at 2nd level lets you use your Int bonus for Sense Motive.
Trait:
Thoughtful Wish-Maker (Plane of Fire) +2 to Sense Motive checks
Feats:
Improved Unarmed Strike, Snake Style (Immediate action to substitute Sense Motive check for AC), Skill Focus (+3 to Sense Motive), Alertness (+2 to Sense Motive)
Extracts:
Focused Scrutiny (+10 untyped bonus to sense motive against a particular target)
Fox's cunning (+4 to Int, so +2 to Sense Motive)
Investigator Talents:
Expanded Inspiration (free inspiration to add +1d6 to Sense Motive)
Empathy (roll twice and take the better one on Sense Motive)
Magic Items:
Spectacles of Thought-Seeing (+6 Competence bonus to Sense Motive)
Skills:
6 ranks in Sense Motive
So you get:
6 ranks
+3 class skill
+7 (Int bonus from 24 Int with Fox's Cunning)
+6 (Competence from Spectacles)
+5 (Skill Focus and Alertness)
+2 (Trait bonus)
+2 (Snake style)
+10 (Focused Scrutiny)
That puts you at +41 before you've even rolled, and you still get d20+d6 and get to roll twice for both and take the better result. You'll end up with an AC of between 43 and 67 for the first hit. There are likely other bonuses for Int or Sense Motive that I missed, too.
If you're concerned about your AC the rest of the round, put the remaining build points in Dex, buy a +3 Chain Shirt and a +1 Buckler with your remaining cash, put ranks in Acrobatics (you have 66 to spare), and fight defensively for a 24 or full defense for a 27, which is still respectable, especially if it's against iteratives.
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Love Snake-style. Once per round, but it applies to touch AC too and you choose which attack you use it against. If you wanted to be excessive, you could further abuse it with missile and ray shield feats, and maybe even mounted combat deflect hits to the mount.
unhittable... I give your PC a room of food and water, with toilet, and build a solid stone jail around him for 20000 less food&water... I keep the excess as profit.
oh... did you want him to be able to attack? Add 12 arrowslits.
I do think that if the goal is about safety, being an adventurer is a really bad plan.
Though you do bring up a solid point. I mean, the offensive power of any PC with that much AC is going to suffer. I'd honestly suggest designing a Ranger or cavalier that is designed to swap places with their companion and heal up, while their companion is the alternate tank. Seems like that would be a more realistic solution instead of just having a single PC with superior AC.
It's still a fun exercise, though.
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Keep in mind that the plate/shield fighter's AC doesn't apply versus touch attacks while the Dex based monk combo does, though less of his is an option while flatfooted. I tend to favor touch AC over flatfooted because while flatfooted is nice in that first round and surprise, high dex means higher initiative so less chance of being flat footed and touch applies to all those nasty touch spells like Slay living and Harm and Enervation.
At really high levels miss chance is nice when the casters start using quickened true strike plus nasty bad touch spells. Also hit points are a major concern versus power word nastiness.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Does it matter if the AC is contextual or has a limited effective Duration?
Limited durations usually use action economy, which I never have spare. So I tend to avoid things limited situation (Snake Style, Fighting Defensively, 10 minute/level or less buffs.)
[Roland] character sounds bad. Not an invul rager, only 14 con, ouch.
Wasn't a Barbarian, so couldn't be InvRag. Con 14 with 7 "retrain HP" effects, so effectively CON 16 for HP ;-)
well the AC arms race can get silly.
I was really going for route 3 or route 2 without being way less than route 1.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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I've revised my views from this thread and other discussions.
I'm less concerned about going up against Tower Shield AC.
Also the recent change of Jungasa of the Fortunate Soldier has reduced the AC high mark across the board.
So the current target for "route 3" AC is AC 28 without using amulet of natural armor, dodge feat, dusty rose ioun stone, or the ring slot.
3 = +1 heavy shield
11 = +1 full plate (defender of the society)
3 = DEX 16 and Armor Training 2
1 = Amulet of Natural Armor
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28
Monk's can't use Amulet of Natural Armor, so it is something Fighter gets that Monk do not.
Everyone gets a Ring of Protection and Dusty Rose Ioun Stone, so no point in counting it now.
Current Best
9 = Dex 22 Cha 16 with Fox Shape and 3 levels of Iroran Paladin
3 = natural AC (fox shape natural AC and size AC)
2 = Wis 14 with Monk AC Bonus
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24
The Character needs Dex for atk/cmb/dam, and it needs Cha for saves/AC. Finally it needs Wis for AC. So it is hard to increase any of those 3 scores.
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I've revised my views from this thread and other discussions.
I'm less concerned about going up against Tower Shield AC.
Also the recent change of Jungasa of the Fortunate Soldier has reduced the AC high mark across the board.
So the current target for "route 3" AC is AC 28 without using amulet of natural armor, dodge feat, dusty rose ioun stone, or the ring slot.** spoiler omitted **
Current Best
9 = Dex 22 Cha 16 with Fox Shape and 3 levels of Iroran Paladin
3 = natural AC (fox shape natural AC and size AC)
2 = Wis 14 with Monk AC Bonus
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24The Character needs Dex for atk/cmb/dam, and it needs Cha for saves/AC. Finally it needs Wis for AC. So it is hard to increase any of those 3 scores.
Yes Jingasa became unplayable now and is just wasting space on paper. Wasn't a Nerf...was a butchering of the item.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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An alternative:
3 Iroran Paladin Cha/level to Dex (light armor and no shield)
2 Kensai Magus Int/level Dodge (light armor and no shield) - any weapon
- 5th level -
7 = Max Dex = Dex 18, Cha 16
5 = +3 darkleaf rosewood armor (Max Dex 8)
2 = Dodge (Canny Defense) from Int 14
1 = Amulet of Natural Armor
AC 25
Any way to improve short of Ring of Protection or Dusty Rose Ioun Stone? Or feats like Dodge?
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(Thread necro, because I hate making new threads where old ones will do....)
6th-level halfling, 20pt buy, with a 17>19 dexterity (cost 13pts) at 1st..
Build:
Trait: Cautious Warrior, Bestial Wrath (or other non-combat trait)
01 Fighter1 [Unarmed][IUS][feat:Crane Style], Cautious Fighter
02 uRogue1 [[SA+1d6]
03 uRogue2 [Talent:Offensive Defense], Accomplished Sneak Attacker
04 uRogue3 [SA+3d6], DEX>20
05 (any dex rage class)1, Dodge
06 Fighter2 [feat: Crane Wing]
Equipment (20kgp or less):
750gp: potion Cat's Grace
750gp: wand Mage Armor
2000gp: Ring of Protection (deflection)
2000gp: Amulet of Natural Armor (natural)
5155gp: +2 buckler (shield)
8320gp: +1/Furious/Defending rapier
= 18,975gp (out of 20,000gp max)
Action economy:
* move (drink potion of Cat's Grace)
* standard (UMD Mage Armor)
* swift (activate Crane Style)
* free (rage)
* free (transfer Defending weapon enhancement bonus to AC)
AC 10....
+1 size small
+1 Dodge
+1 ring
+1 amulet
+4 (Mage Armor)
+3 (buckler)
+3 (defending weapon)
+9 raging dexterity 28
Fighting Defensively bonuses:
+3 Acrobatics (3+ ranks)
+1 Cautious Warrior
+2 Cautious Fighter
+1 Crane Style
+4 Crane Wing (until an opponent rolls really high)
Offensive Defense
+3 (after any successful sneak-attack)
~ ~ ~
AC 44 after one round of buffing, AC 47 after sneak-attacking anything.