And why?
Me I like them both but I probably have to go with arcane just because I play wizard so much more than other classes.
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Psychic magic. No penalties on Cunning Caster, so enchantment and illusion are more useful.
Psychic magic. No penalties on Cunning Caster, so enchantment and illusion are more useful.
that is not really arcane or divine
exactlyPsychic magic. No penalties on Cunning Caster, so enchantment and illusion are more useful.that is not really arcane or divine
?
Out of Divine/Arcane, Divine, since it actually has flavour while arcane is just "Anything that wasn't divine". Out of Arcane/Divine/Psychic, definitely Psychic.
?exactlyPsychic magic. No penalties on Cunning Caster, so enchantment and illusion are more useful.that is not really arcane or divine
I think that QuidEst and Imbicatus's point was that the discussion in this thread should also include Psychic, which you had forgotten (or ignored) in the thread title.
Personally I like both Divine and Psychic. The notion that armor would restrict magic does not sit well with my perception on fantasy magic.
Psychic magic. No penalties on Cunning Caster, so enchantment and illusion are more useful.that is not really arcane or divine
If excluding psychic magic was intentional, then I prefer arcane. Lots of interesting spells there. Making magical copies of people, possession, illusions, and pocket dimensions.
Arcane, it has most of the most fun stuff.
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Fighting spirit.
I also wish that 4e's Primal was a source. It makes more sense for Druids and Rangers than divine.
And while we're at it, I'd create a Cosmic source for Witches and Oracles, as they both don't sit right in arcane and divine, because they are both powered by unknown outside forces.
As long as Oracles keep their spell list and cure spells I'm fine with this.
Anyways for me, Divine > Extracts = Psychic > Arcane. Mostly because I don't like full arcane casters. The only arcane classes I like are the witch and the bard. Meanwhile extracts are flavorful as all hell and can cheat with the personal range spells.
I'd go with Divine, mostly because I lean towards Ranger/Hunter for my favorite classes.
Arcane.
Psionics (not psychics). Then Divine. And lastly Arcane.
Definitely arcane for me. The divine spells (save maybe for Druids) have never made me want to play a divine caster personally.
Out of Divine/Arcane, Divine, since it actually has flavour while arcane is just "Anything that wasn't divine". Out of Arcane/Divine/Psychic, definitely Psychic.
Well, perhaps that is what people are looking for. To not be bound by devotion to some god, or vague concept like 'nature'.
Well, perhaps that is what people are looking for. To not be bound by devotion to some god, or vague concept like 'nature'.
I have no issue with that. I have issue with a group of magic that is completely unrelated to each other. Wizards get their magic through study, sorcerers have their powers from random origin stories, witches get magic from pacts, Bards get their magic from... nothing. There is no actual relation between the different forms of arcane magic. The field of magic itself has no flavour. Arcane isn't a "type of magic" it was just "anything that isn't divine". It's multiple different fields of magic, not one.
Yes I intentionally did not say physic
Of course; Physics aren't magic, silly. It's science.
I prefer Divine over Arcane, cause I like the connection to the gods, and outsiders and stuff.
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Arcane because I dislike the idea my powers could be taken away at a crucial moment because I forgot to appease some other being/s.
Of course I'm not entirely happy with Pathfinders multiple magic sources and I wouldn't be happy with arcane, divine, primal, cosmic at all. Give me only magic magic and have the source differ not the type. So you could have divine source (gods), infernal source (demons), neutral source (djinn), booglelymooglly source (Cthulu), personal source (your own powers) which may affect how it manifests because gods prefer to give more healing spells, demons will give whatever gets them your soul, Cthulu gives spells that warp and corrupt that sort of thing but its all magic and functions on the same rules.
After reading the post by Senko I would like to change my answer to "magic magic".
After reading the post by Senko I would like to change my answer to "magic magic".
So a rogue with a REALLY good set of bluff and sleight of hand checks?
I think I like more of the arcane classes, but for me it really depends what my character concept is.
I actually love paladins, but since their casting is pretty limited they may not be an indication of which I actually prefer.
If it were real life I'd go divine. As tempting as it is to be able to weave the fabric of the universe into my own personal scarf through sheer willpower - having a direct line to a deity seems like it'd be pretty hard to beat.
So a rogue with a REALLY good set of bluff and sleight of hand checks?
I think you are confusing "magic magic" with "real world magic", did you read the post by Senko?
I think you are confusing "magic magic" with "real world magic", did you read the post by Senko?
So a rogue with a REALLY good set of bluff and sleight of hand checks?
"magic magic" just sounds silly. I won't make excuses.
And while we're at it, I'd create a Cosmic source for Witches and Oracles, as they both don't sit right in arcane and divine, because they are both powered by unknown outside forces.
Not really, Oracles may not know who te source is, but it definitely is a Deity or Demigod.
The Patron is purposefully unknown to basically anyone, but it doesn't bestow power, it is a teacher. The witchers magical expertise is hers alone in the end, but instead of going to wizard school another entity speaks to her though the familiar.
Of course I'm not entirely happy with Pathfinders multiple magic sources and I wouldn't be happy with arcane, divine, primal, cosmic at all. Give me only magic magic and have the source differ not the type.
Isn't that.. basically how it already is? There's only trivial differences between arcane, divine and psychic magic and they're basically only in the technique/flavor of the character archetypes intended to use it.
But in the end they all function more or less exactly the same.. and in fact they have a ton of spells shared between them.
Of course I'm not entirely happy with Pathfinders multiple magic sources and I wouldn't be happy with arcane, divine, primal, cosmic at all. Give me only magic magic and have the source differ not the type.Isn't that.. basically how it already is? There's only trivial differences between arcane, divine and psychic magic and they're basically only in the technique/flavor of the character archetypes intended to use it.
But in the end they all function more or less exactly the same.. and in fact they have a ton of spells shared between them.
This is why Psionics is awesome. Similar enough to be easy to pick up, different enough to be different.
Arcane.
Why? Because that's what my all time favorite class - the bard - uses.
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Of course I'm not entirely happy with Pathfinders multiple magic sources and I wouldn't be happy with arcane, divine, primal, cosmic at all. Give me only magic magic and have the source differ not the type.Isn't that.. basically how it already is? There's only trivial differences between arcane, divine and psychic magic and they're basically only in the technique/flavor of the character archetypes intended to use it.
But in the end they all function more or less exactly the same.. and in fact they have a ton of spells shared between them.
Close but its the differences that bug me e.g. cleric/magus can cast in armour but a wizard can't, not sure on druids or sorcerer is inherent power but you can freely multiclass into it whenever you like. I just want one uniform system with the same rules regardless of who's casting. Its a personal thing though and not just DnD related I could never get into the manga fairy tale because it seems like every main character has a unique magic system all their own.
As a side-note, it can be incredibly refreshing to occasionally play a more low-thematic-magic RPG now and then, like the old Pendragon game.
Want your pagan deities to bless you by turning aside the blades of those pesky knights? Spend a day communing with the other side at Stonehenge on the equinox and sacrifice a ram... and then collapse into fitful sleep for most of the next two weeks. You now have the spiritual equivalent of plate armor for a year and a day; go spook the Christians in battle by fighting with nothing on but some paint. Just hope they don't have a saint on the hill praying hard for some divine retribution on your head.
Arcane, so my character actually has powers of his own and isn't just a arbitrarily constricted conduit for some fickle god. Seriously. Why wouldn't you just make your clerics/oracles level 20 from the start? I mean, if you can afford to have level 20 followers in the first place, just magically give them the experience and power they need instantly.
Although if psychic is allowed, definitely psychic because why wouldn't you love psychic?
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Arcane, so my character actually has powers of his own and isn't just a arbitrarily constricted conduit for some fickle god. Seriously. Why wouldn't you just make your clerics/oracles level 20 from the start? I mean, if you can afford to have level 20 followers in the first place, just magically give them the experience and power they need instantly.
Although if psychic is allowed, definitely psychic because why wouldn't you love psychic?
Because most psychic systems don't allow you to do things magic does.
Also I suspect some Gods (gm's) do just make their followers lvl 20. Of course "experience" is not the same as actual experience in knowing when to reshape reality and when not too.
Mystic Theurge. Enough said.
Arcane. I don't like the idea of being beholden to anything else for power. Then again you also don't necessarily have anyone to watch your back, so there's that.
Y'all mfers need Nethys.
Slight Rant:
Funny you should say that. Because I'm a big nerd, like most of us I imagine, I was thinking about what I like playing V.S. what I would want to be should I be teleported to D&D world.
There are deities with better domains, but Nethys is basically going to give you power and otherwise leave you alone. Playing a character I prefer other deities because of said domains, but if I had to deal with said Deity on a personal level I'd prefer one that was severely hands off, like Nethys.
I'd want to be either:
Gestalt Wizard (Teleport) 20/Cleric of Nethys (20)/ Mythic 10.
alternately same classes non-gestalt. Whatever works.
I say this because Nethys would most likely leave me be to pursue my own ends as long as I used magic to do so.
Looking at other deities I think they'd all want something from me.
For example: Abadar is probably the runner up for who I'd worship. However, I also like being in the middle of nowhere sometimes. Assuming I can teleport directly to my hermit cabin on a mountain somewhere and use magic to have all the modern conveniences. I like being in nature, but at the end of the day I want a hot shower and a clean bed.
This includes protection and preservation of the wild places. Now, I don't want to live in them like some hippie druid, but I respect their overall purpose and majesty.
I suppose there might be another divine entity out there somewhere that I could be friends with, but I dislike reliance on something else for my livelihood.
Arcane, mostly due to control options of Witch's Slumber & Cauldron Hexes are AMAZING.
Arcane, mostly due to control options of Witch's Slumber & Cauldron Hexes are AMAZING.
Why are you impressed with the Cauldron Hex? It's basically just brew potion with a alchemy skill kicker. Am I missing something?
Arcane BECAUSE of its flavor/variety...the wizard studies, sorc/bloodrager inherits, bard sings, witches hex, et al.
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I have always preferred arcane over divine from both a mechanic and flavour perspective.
Mechanically, arcane has better and more diverse battlefield control spells (IMHO) which tends to be my focus with most caster characters I play.
From a flavour perspective I have never really enjoyed paying homage to others to grant powers. When I alter the fabric of reality I want it to be because I'm one of the smartest mofos around and have learned to harness the power of the universe!
Arcane, mostly due to control options of Witch's Slumber & Cauldron Hexes are AMAZING.Why are you impressed with the Cauldron Hex? It's basically just brew potion with a alchemy skill kicker. Am I missing something?
Depending on down time rules of the DM, I have found it is the best way to Buff, Example being Bulls Strength, Haste, and Enlarge person, before combat and to heal and delay diseases and poisons after combat. Without burning through my spells perday
for some fickle god
By how gods work in those systems, they are anything but fickle. They are compelled by they nature to behave in a specific way depending on their domains, it is the Cleric changing his behaviour that breaks the connection.
tl;dr: Gods are extremely restricted in behaviour so it's the other way around
Depending on down time rules of the DM, I have found it is the best way to Buff, Example being Bulls Strength, Haste, and Enlarge person, before combat and to heal and delay diseases and poisons after combat. Without burning through my spells perday
I think he's wondering why the Cauldron Hex impresses you more than any other caster with the Brew Potion feat.