I'm starting a new campaign in a couple of days, and the setting is a world where permanent magic haven't been invented yet.
This means that scrolls, wands and the like are good to go, but a +1 sword won't fly.
I'm worried about which classes will fall behind the others, and what problems I will have to address in order to make this work.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
This will make all the martial classes suck. Suck more than they already do.
Don't do it unless you're willing to substitute in Automatic Bonus Progression (which basically means the magic was in you the whole time instead of your items) but doesn't actually get rid of the permanent magic bonus.
Pathfinder is unplayable without the big six items or an equivalent, such as that provided by ABP.
I don't know that I would say it is unplayable. But you do have to make a lot of adjustments to challenge ratings and things like that. Monster abilities DCs are higher than expected for saves, their to hit is too high, AC to high etc.
If you adjust down these things, then it is basically the same game.
That is a lot of work, and if you don't want to do it, the Automatic Bonus Progression mentioned above, or one of a host of similar in concept home-brew solutions will work for you.
A simple solution without a giant rewrite might be to simply use lower-CR encounters. Say, treat the party's APL as being 2/3 of what it really is, or maybe even 1/2, (round up) when selecting the CR of the monsters.
Use lots of special materials like adamantium, etc., to bypass DRs (or just don't bypass them and force the PCs to outdamage the DR or outthink the encounter).
That might make for a playable game with no permanent magic, but like Claxon said, the gap between casters and non-casters will be much worse than it is in the official game, so I would suggest that you INSIST that all PCs be the same type. Either all casters or all martials or all half-casters, or whatever. That way there is no gap at all. Me, I would ban all full-casters and all non-casters and let the players have all the stuff in the middle and see how that goes.
If you want to play with no permanent magic items and no ABP, then you're going to have to manually adjust all encounters. I would use the ABP as a rough guide to start with. Look at all of the benefits that ABP and makes sure to adjust the monsters to accommodate this.
For example at 12th level, we have +2 weapon attunement and +4 physical prowess. For most melee characters, that's +4 to hit and damage. Reducing the monster's AC by 4 and HP by 16-30 will offset this.
Likewise, they get +2 armor attunement, +1 toughening and +2 deflection. That's 5 points of AC that they won't have.
and so on.
Of course you'll need to play it by ear to figure out what challenges your specific group and that's always a factor.
A simple solution without a giant rewrite might be to simply use lower-CR encounters. Say, treat the party's APL as being 2/3 of what it really is, or maybe even 1/2, (round up) when selecting the CR of the monsters.
This works with some exceptions. DR/magic is a much bigger deal so two things that are CR 8, one with DR/magic and one without it won't be nearly the same in this alternate world. Incorporeal is even worse, with anyone who isn't a spell caster being totally ineffective. So if you eliminate whole problem categories, than a simple APL adjustment can work.
A well-prepared group might have Magic Weapon on tap. First round of battle the group's buffer drops Magic Weapon on the paladin's sword and he overcomes those problems.
The right amount of CR adjustment would probably be someone dependent on how optimized the group is for this kind of game (which is likely to be different, somewhat, than general optimization for regular Pathfinder). As I mentioned, the house rule might not be too painful if every PC is a caster; maybe they'll all be prepared with a trick up their sleeves (or a spell on their spell list) for this kind of thing.
Also, sometimes an encounter goes just fine by piling on high damage, high enough that some damage from each hit exceeds the DR (or hardness) and eventually kills the monster. This is harder without magic to improve the damage, but easier if everything you fight is half your actual APL, so that might be a wash.
Finally, the GM would need to consider every encounter when he designs it. This is true of all games so probably doesn't need to be called out. But true, this is probably much more important with significantly impactful house rules like this one. This GM-consideration includes not using a particular monster that has abilities making it overpowered with the given house rules.
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A simple solution without a giant rewrite might be to simply use lower-CR encounters. Say, treat the party's APL as being 2/3 of what it really is, or maybe even 1/2, (round up) when selecting the CR of the monsters.This works with some exceptions.
I don't think it works. An 8th level spellcaster is still a CR 7 monster (CR 8 with PC wealth); an 8th level rogue is basically a commoner with a good Reflex save.
I don't know what everyone's fixation with "Hey, let's play a fantasy RPG without the magical bits" is, but D&D and its clones are not the system to use. Break out GURPS or FATE instead.
I see, then I'll have to grant them the big 6 in another way. The setting is purely for the sake of storytelling, so I don't have any problems with doing so.
Mysterious (and costly) herb-baths to increase attributes.
Alchemically induced bone-growth for bonus natural armor.
...Ground pixie dust for resistance bonus to saves?
A hefty fee to the local temple to buy the services of a guardian angel instead of a Ring of Protection.
I still have to come up with a way for weapons/armor, though.
Lots of the advice depends very much on the course of the campaign you want to run.
The difference of advice need to work a campaign that you plan to go from 1st to 6th before wrapping up is very different than what you will need if you want to start at 4th and proceed to 17th.
The biggest piece of advice is: Are your players interested?
If your players are interested, and trust you to make it work, all the problems can be resolved, but it WILL take some work to resolve.
At the higher levels, as Claxon mentioned, your best bet for not making a complete rework is likely to use the Automatic Bonus Progression. The lower levels, though, could prove interesting, especially if you have plenty of alchemical gear and supplies in addition to potions.
One large adjustment for the players is the impact on treasure. If you do not have magic items, one of the rewards in the system is gone. Characters will run out items to purchase, and then money will start to lose meaning, except for the group to pull together its resources to buy the most powerful wand (cannon) they can afford. So you will need to think about adjusting that. What other rewards will characters have?
You can start doing things to limit your spell-casters to "balance" this out, but that starts down a spiral series of changes through the system. Maybe that is what you want, but you should be clear on your intent.
So, what are you trying to achieve, what do you envision your campaign covering, and what tools are you willing to use to do it?
I see, then I'll have to grant them the big 6 in another way. The setting is purely for the sake of storytelling, so I don't have any problems with doing so.
Mysterious (and costly) herb-baths to increase attributes.
Alchemically induced bone-growth for bonus natural armor.
...Ground pixie dust for resistance bonus to saves?
A hefty fee to the local temple to buy the services of a guardian angel instead of a Ring of Protection.I still have to come up with a way for weapons/armor, though.
Alternative Bonus Progression basically does this for you. You don't really need to logic it except by saying that "you get a +1 bonus to your saves built into your class progression." I'd suggest using the rules for advancing the characters levels by 2 for doling out bonuses since permanent magic items are exceedingly rare.
But ABP basically exists so you can make the math work right in a low-magic setting. It doesn't need to be a magic sword to get +1 to hit and damage, it just needs to be a sword that you are extremely familiar with the use of, so you use it more effectively than anybody else would. You can also handwave it as ineffable luck, or "someone up there likes you" or whatever.
I guess unplayable is unfair, but you will have to do so much adjusting to encounters to account for the change in power, and in special abilities (like incorporeal) to keep everyone relevant that it may as well not be the same game. Of course I am thinking about this from the perspective of running published modules and adventure paths, and if you intended to create everything yourself it may not be as much of a problem. However you will be deviating so much from the standard that it will be difficult to know exactly what to do or how to deal with things.
Alternately get ahold of a Midnight base book. If you want to play super low magic thats the book to pick up. Magic items are usually rare and unique and grow with the character but are senseable by servants of the dark god who basically rules the world there. They have an array of alternate heroic paths that take the place of most magic items but aren't as generic as the pathfinder equivalent.
If you look at some of the magic weapons the magic could easily be replaced with normal practices. The enhancement bonuses of a +1 weapon could be due to well balanced construction. Keen weapons could be the result of meticulous honing, returning weapons have long cords tied to them. some magic effects could be off the table, but you can work around most.
A simple solution without a giant rewrite might be to simply use lower-CR encounters. Say, treat the party's APL as being 2/3 of what it really is, or maybe even 1/2, (round up) when selecting the CR of the monsters.This works with some exceptions.I don't think it works. An 8th level spellcaster is still a CR 7 monster (CR 8 with PC wealth); an 8th level rogue is basically a commoner with a good Reflex save.
I don't know what everyone's fixation with "Hey, let's play a fantasy RPG without the magical bits" is, but D&D and its clones are not the system to use. Break out GURPS or FATE instead.
I think a lot of it has to do with folks wanting to emulate the feel of popular Low Fantasy works like A Song of Ice and Fire, The Witcher, The Black Company, Conan the Barbarian, and so on. But like you said, Pathfinder just isn't built to work that way.
In the long run, what happens when you remove permanent enchantments? Well...
-15 AC
-8 less attack (not sure on damage- depends)
-8 less saves
-3 spell DCs
And much more. But all that would be the immediate effects.
The problem here is that, for many enemies (non human ones at least), they are designed to work without equipment. So their power doesn't drop much. But as you can see, this is a massive drop for the party.
The only way this would really work is if you gave massive penalties to the enemies too. So that dragon? Weak as a kitten. Nerfing isn't as important with humanoids...except for the fact that casters would need major nerfing.
Cause notice how the spell DCs mostly only suffer from the lack of extra mental stat? But saves suffer from both the missing +5 enhancement bonus and the +3 due to stat raising items?
So yeah...you would need to nerf both interesting monsters and casters. Really, it is easier to remove both than trying to figure out how to nerf them.
If you just wanted martials versus martials, then that is fine. You can do a tactical system with that. But if you want much past that, then you can't escape the fact that the system is tied deeply with items. Just removing them and not replacing the effect will not work out too well.
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A simple solution without a giant rewrite might be to simply use lower-CR encounters. Say, treat the party's APL as being 2/3 of what it really is, or maybe even 1/2, (round up) when selecting the CR of the monsters.This works with some exceptions.I don't think it works. An 8th level spellcaster is still a CR 7 monster (CR 8 with PC wealth); an 8th level rogue is basically a commoner with a good Reflex save.
Not so true for a sorcerer, witch or wizard, they will have to sped a large part of their spells to boost defense and saves. Very good for caster that can use armor.
Any class that has abilities that can enhance weapon, armor or saves get a large boost in comparison to other classes.
Inquisitor: can boost all the above abilities. Can get a magic weapon on the fly, has the spells to boost his non magical weapon and armor for a long period when he reach level 7.
Magus: can boost his weapon several times in a day.
Paladin: a standard action, but he can enhance his weapon.
Arcane Duelist Bards will be loved for Bladethirst.
Druid will suffer a little, but they have the spells to be powerhouses and shapechange is almost unaffected.
Clerics and several oracles would suffer a small reduction in power.
Summoners too will be able to circumvent most of the drawbacks.
Monks too will probably shine in comparison with other martial classes.
On the other hand:
Rogue and Fighters would be heavily penalized, especially fighters as they have a harder time using UMD.
Sorcerers, witches or wizards will have to spend several spells to get some defense and at the same time would be under a serious pressure to provide long term spells to boost other characters weapons.
- * - * -
Then you have the WBL problem.
No permanent magic items mean that the player will spend their money in consumables (BTW, how do you class staves?). So a huge capability to boost the abilities for a short period if you use standard WBL and the need to constantly pump founds or consumables in the campaign to keep the characters at WBL replacing what they use.
If you don't keep them at WBL and instead dish out only the normal amount of money there is a big change in the game.
Note that you should get rid of most of the magic items crafting feats.
If you allow custom elixir and single use wondrous items you will see people making outrageous things.
As an alternate idea, don't make items permanent. Not sure if anyone here has played Elder Scroll V: Skyrim, but every time you hit with a weapon it looses a charge. Weapons have a number of charges based on how high they have been enchanted. i.e. a weapon that adds 5 points to damage gives, lets say, 200 uses. While a bonus of 15 gives 75 uses. I know my math is off, but this is only an example.
So you could still have your +1 sword, but only for 100 swings. After that it reverts back to being a masterwork sword, ready for possible future enchantment.
Anyway, as I said; its just an alternate idea.
If you just wanted martials versus martials, then that is fine. You can do a tactical system with that. But if you want much past that, then you can't escape the fact that the system is tied deeply with items. Just removing them and not replacing the effect will not work out too well.Even martials versus martials is a stretch. 100% of AC scaling after level 3 at most comes from magic items for most classes. Only about 25%-33% of attack roll scaling comes from magic items. Once you're in top end mundane armor you stagnate while BAB and class based accuracy boosters like weapon training and rage keep going up.
Yeeeeepp.... but they are less dramatically affected.
I can make martial builds that can deal with this, such as a key away reach build. That is all about 'effective DPR'- how well can you full attack in a given situation? Reach +lunge build can do it well...and make others such by adding pushing assault (basically forces enemies to eat AoOs again and again, and they have to use a move to re-engage)
Hell, combat expertise is actually a great deal here- it raises AC, and since low AC is the main problem anyway, you don't have to worry about the attack penalty.
I agree with t everyone recommending using the ABP rules. But instead of coming up with ways to justify it just consider them part of leveling up. If you can accept that people get a bonus to stats every 4 levels without any explanation why does getting a few more require you explain them. The only thing that might require some explanation is DR magic. For this simply make up another special substance or two that covers it. You probably need two substances on for meatal weapons, and one for wooden weapons.
Another way to handle it is that almost all creatures have some innate ability to use magic. As you level up you learn to draw on this even if you are not a spell caster.
In the long run, what happens when you remove permanent enchantments? Well...
-15 AC
-8 less attack (not sure on damage- depends)
-8 less saves
-3 spell DCsAnd much more. But all that would be the immediate effects.
That is a very good summation as a starting point. I would also add that just as important but far more difficult to calculate or compensate for are the "utility" powers that magic items grant. Extreme mobility (such as spider climb, flying, or various flavored teleports) is just one example.
Another implication is the increase of power of Greater Dispel Magic. If almost every benefit or augmentation a creature has comes from a spell (whether cast or from a bottle), then the use of Greater Dispel Magic becomes an even better tactic than before.
However, I think the baseline of the top end mechanics impact is summarized quiet well with lemeres's list above.
I throw my word in for Automatic Bonus Progression, too.
It has the fluff of "no permanent magic items" covered, as its based on you being just so good, while maintaining the inherent math in encounter design.
You can even think up some rituals / alchemical processed that might explain part or all of this. Instead of just superior skill.
I think a lot of it has to do with folks wanting to emulate the feel of popular Low Fantasy works like A Song of Ice and Fire, The Witcher, The Black Company, Conan the Barbarian, and so on. But like you said, Pathfinder just isn't built to work that way.Agreed on everything except the Black Company being low fantasy - it's Epic Fantasy, just from the point of view of a bunch of grunts working for the Evil Overlord. (And it grows out of that as the series progresses.)
I like the series, if you couldn't tell.
Fair point: the overall setting isn't low fantasy, it just has a lot of the low fantasy feel because Croaker and the Company are ordinary soldiers with only a hedge mage or two supporting them. Granted, I've only read the first three books myself, so couldn't comment on the later parts of the series.
The only big issue I can see, has already been stated, which is that pure martials like fighters will be even weaker when compared with full casters like wizards. This may negatively impact your game.
You could go with automatic bonus progression as already described, or you could go with weakening spellcasting in some way and maybe link that explanation with the explanation for why there are no permanent items.
For example: maybe much about magic has not been discovered yet. So maybe spells above "x" level have not been invented. Or maybe certain powerful spells have not been discovered and that is also your opportunity to remove problem spells from your game.
Or perhaps magic is temporary, it leaks out of magic items after a period of time, which is why there are no permanent items, and for spells with a duration it might mean reduced duration or active concentration is required to maintain each spell.
Perhaps magic is simply weaker. It can't be used to create a permanent effect, instantaneous spells don't exist and all spell DCs are reduced by 5.
Perhaps magic is simply weaker. It can't be used to create a permanent effect, instantaneous spells don't exist and all spell DCs are reduced by 5.
Can we get something like 3/4 BAB for spell DCs?
Limited magic from unchained might be an idea lemeres
However we did a the math back during alpha and beta and the peeks for no wbl and full wbl were the same between saves and spell dc at that time. Proportionally the removal of permanent magic hits evenly offensively and defensively.
It does make spells more desirable though while also limiting them more.
Magically speaking it makes targeting the right save for each opponent type more important, and makes team-based casting more desirable (better guarantee of successful casting).
However we did a the math back during alpha and beta and the peeks for no wbl and full wbl were the same between saves and spell dc at that time. Proportionally the removal of permanent magic hits evenly offensively and defensively.
That does not line up at all with the math posted earlier in this thread. Mind backing up that claim?
Right so I'm home.
I am sticking with the point of Core rulebook since that was when the math was originally done, and beta versions at that however:
This thread as a whole was great on the topic
Now magic items are going to account for:
+11 to highest stat (for casters this is more important than non-casters)
+5~6 to save throws separately from stats
+5 to hit
+5 to damage
+5~20 to AC (dependent on armor, shield, necklace, and ring)
+1 to caster level
Pearls of power.
Now the +11 off of the highest stat will hurt the casters the most, as this is the most direct hit to power for them. it results in a -6 on DCs, not a -3.
The loss of bonus to hit and damage is offset by the loss to AC for everyone and visa versa (the loss to AC is offset by the loss of bonus to hit and amage).
However boosting spell DC is the hardest thing to do in the game. There are very limited feat options for it, and the most common methods are: 1. Higher level spells 2. increases to casting stat.
When we went with a wisdom 10 human fighter he had (on average) a 20% chance of saving against a supercharged wizard's best spell.
Change that to a dwarf and that went into the fighter's favor by 15% and giving him a starting wisdom of 14 moved it 10% more into his favor, putting him to a 45% success rate against the best the wizard had at the time.
Losing 8 points off of that hurts, but the wizard losses 6 points off his best spell. This is a 10% swing in the caster's favor, but he has less spells to do this with and has more need of his spells to bolster his own defenses with the lack of permanent magical items.
However this is against one of the two acknowledge weakest save throw class/race combinations in the game. Almost every other class is looking at a much improved save compared to the human and fighter rogue.
If we grant inherent bonuses through scrolls the fighter and wizard will evenly increase with the wizard getting back an extra +1 on his DC compared to the fighter (due to +5 from level increases and +5 inherent coming to an even number).
The wizard is going to lose at least 1 bonus spell of each level (2 for 8th and 9th level at 25 Int compared to 36).
Somewhere in that thread is much more information on the topic... I have to be back up in about 7 hours for my son's pinewood derby. I'll be back tomorrow afternoon to cover it more directly and thoroughly.
This will make all the martial classes suck. Suck more than they already do.
Don't do it unless you're willing to substitute in Automatic Bonus Progression (which basically means the magic was in you the whole time instead of your items) but doesn't actually get rid of the permanent magic bonus.
Pathfinder is unplayable without the big six items or an equivalent, such as that provided by ABP.
I've run a game like this. Martial class did just fine if not even better because bad guys also lacked permanent magic items. Divine caster did the best though. Wizards and Sorcerers suffered greatly. Do not a caster who can not wear armor in game like this. If you really need to play a wizard get arcane armor training ASAP and accept some spell failure chance otherwise you will casting purely on defense. The ability to wear armor is what made divine casters king of this style of game.
I ran the Tomb of the Iron Medusa (level 14) on this board with very few magic items and it worked, from my perspective.
You can check my profile for the character creation rules and read the game. You'll get a sense of what changed.
Sometthing to worry about is consumables getting you right back to where you are.
A potion of greater magic weapon lasts hours and with several of them you might as well have a permanent magic weapon.
I fear more than anything you are going to end up with ammunition counters (for the consumables) instead of permanent magic items.
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I imagine that the party will rely heavily on Oils and other temporary effects to get through the day. Of course, when casters start getting 3rd level spells, Magic Weapon/Fang/Vestment will effectively enable "permanent" enchants anyway.
The only difference is that the expectation will fall upon casters to sacrifice chunks of their power (very notable chunks around levels 5-9) to empower other party members. Depending on the players, this could be seen anywhere between "yay, teamwork" and "someone has to be the Enchant Gimp"
But hey, stealth buff to Summon spells. That ought to be fun for some folks.
Perhaps magic is simply weaker. It can't be used to create a permanent effect, instantaneous spells don't exist and all spell DCs are reduced by 5.Can we get something like 3/4 BAB for spell DCs?
The probloem is, that when the DCs get too low, at some point you just don't use spells with saves.
I've run a game like this. Martial class did just fine if not even better because bad guys also lacked permanent magic items. Divine caster did the best though. Wizards and Sorcerers suffered greatly. Do not a caster who can not wear armor in game like this. If you really need to play a wizard get arcane armor training ASAP and accept some spell failure chance otherwise you will casting purely on defense. The ability to wear armor is what made divine casters king of this style of game.
A wizard doesn't need magic items for protection - that's what Mage Armor, Shield, PfE, Protection from Arrows, Blur, Mirror Image, Fly, Overland Flight and/or Invisibility are for.
A divine caster can't compete with a Summoner or Wizard who summons monsters while under Invisibility and Overland Flight the whole time (maybe with a wall or some difficult terrain-spell thrown in for good measure).Unless you have a campaign were most enemies are human(oids) with lots of spellcasting power.
At the very least I would keep +X weapons and armor and reflavor them as different levels of masterwork. Like Good, Fine, Exceptional, Masterwork, Legendary where it just represents really well made items that are effectively +X.
The probloem is, that when the DCs get too low, at some point you just don't use spells with saves.Perhaps magic is simply weaker. It can't be used to create a permanent effect, instantaneous spells don't exist and all spell DCs are reduced by 5.Can we get something like 3/4 BAB for spell DCs?
Well, the idea would be that such a move would be for a game where enemies had significantly lower saves since they lack permanent boosts that could make them more likely to make saves.
Yes, not useful against more monstrous enemies (since they just have good numbers designed around not having such equipment)...but I wouldn't put such enemies out anyway in an itemless campaign since the PC's defenses are weaker too. You might already need to use the nerf hammer so hard that the dire tiger is a dire kitten... which means that they end up pathetic and near unusable. So it would likely end up as a humanoid vs. humanoid campaign. Were everyone's base defenses suck.
A divine caster can't compete with a Summoner or Wizard who summons monsters while under Invisibility and Overland Flight the whole time (maybe with a wall or some difficult terrain-spell thrown in for good measure).
Unless you have a campaign were most enemies are human(oids) with lots of spellcasting power.
I don't agree, Druids are good at summoning and Clerics with the right build can be effective summoners as well. I played a Cleric of Asmodeus and didn't take Sacred Summons because I thought he would be too powerful for the AP.
A wizard doesn't need magic items for protection - that's what Mage Armor, Shield, PfE, Protection from Arrows, Blur, Mirror Image, Fly, Overland Flight and/or Invisibility are for.
A divine caster can't compete with a Summoner or Wizard who summons monsters while under Invisibility and Overland Flight the whole time (maybe with a wall or some difficult terrain-spell thrown in for good measure).
Unless you have a campaign were most enemies are human(oids) with lots of spellcasting power.
And where is he getting all these extra spell slots to be doing this the whole time?
And where is he getting all these extra spell slots to be doing this the whole time?A wizard doesn't need magic items for protection - that's what Mage Armor, Shield, PfE, Protection from Arrows, Blur, Mirror Image, Fly, Overland Flight and/or Invisibility are for.
A divine caster can't compete with a Summoner or Wizard who summons monsters while under Invisibility and Overland Flight the whole time (maybe with a wall or some difficult terrain-spell thrown in for good measure).
Unless you have a campaign were most enemies are human(oids) with lots of spellcasting power.
Pearls of power, wands, scrolls, etc all come to mind (depending on if you count a Pearl of Power as a permanent magical item in it's own right, or just a storage receptical for magic).
If you know you're not getting protection from permanent magical items, I think its a safe bet that you sit your butt down during downtime and start making reams of protection scrolls.
And where is he getting all these extra spell slots to be doing this the whole time?A wizard doesn't need magic items for protection - that's what Mage Armor, Shield, PfE, Protection from Arrows, Blur, Mirror Image, Fly, Overland Flight and/or Invisibility are for.
A divine caster can't compete with a Summoner or Wizard who summons monsters while under Invisibility and Overland Flight the whole time (maybe with a wall or some difficult terrain-spell thrown in for good measure).
Unless you have a campaign were most enemies are human(oids) with lots of spellcasting power.Pearls of power, wands, scrolls, etc all come to mind (depending on if you count a Pearl of Power as a permanent magical item in it's own right, or just a storage receptical for magic).
If you know you're not getting protection from permanent magical items, I think its a safe bet that you sit your butt down during downtime and start making reams of protection scrolls.
Generally if it's in the wondrous items and reusable it's permanent.
Also if you think you are going to be the only ones with scrolls, when the clerics have all the summons too, and invisibility purge, dispel magic, et al and be perfectly safe... you aren't too keen of a wizard.
But this does illustrate a point I made earlier...
At the end of the day this is what the problem is going to be -- you trade "permanent" items for everyone packing a bunch of consumables.
Everyone having consumables is expected and balanced, since both sides are doing the same thing.
For Wizards and clerics, them getting dispelled from scroll buffs is no different from cast buffs, neither of them can put those defenses back up unless they prepared them multiple times as backup.
But yes, all it really does is make wands/scrolls of things like Magic Weapon absurdly common.
Won't really stop anyone from having magic gear, it'll just mean more consumables for the same effect.
And where is he getting all these extra spell slots to be doing this the whole time?
At low level you don't need that many buffs (especially against enemies without magic items) and at high level you have quite a few low level spell slots.
@Boomerang Nebula: I didn't mean to imply that divine casters can't be good summoners (especially with the Monster Summoner's Handbook's Herold Caller of Monster Tactician out there). It's just that when it comes to defense in a low item-campaign I really don't see armor on the same level as Invisibility+Overland Flight for a summoner.
In addition to the game balance issues mentioned (I use a form of innate magical bonus progression myself), you have the issue that you're effectively removing Loot from the game. Some players won't take that well.
GM: "The dragon was lying on a hoard of treasure, at least ten thousand gold pieces' worth."
Wizard: "I cast detect magic on it. Anything good?"
GM: "There is nothing magical. There will never be anything magical."
Fighter: "Well, at least we can use the money to buy... stuff. Mundane, non-magical stuff." (Sighs.)
GM: "But you rescued the princess!"
Fighter: "Yeah, and I bet we'll get a great reward from the king. A great mundane non-magical reward."
At that point the reward better *BE** the princess! :P
I see, then I'll have to grant them the big 6 in another way. The setting is purely for the sake of storytelling, so I don't have any problems with doing so.
Mysterious (and costly) herb-baths to increase attributes.
Alchemically induced bone-growth for bonus natural armor.
...Ground pixie dust for resistance bonus to saves?
A hefty fee to the local temple to buy the services of a guardian angel instead of a Ring of Protection.I still have to come up with a way for weapons/armor, though.
crafted items at specific dc's are equal to magic weapons, I.e. more then masterwork. I suggest masterwork dc's starting at 30 and increasing every 5 dc.
The entire weapon has to be crafted, so the 9k raw for a +3 weapon would take months to make.You may want to restrict the maximum bonus to +3, OR you may require exotic materials for the best stuff, like 1E. So, you only get +5 stuff if you use adamantine, mithril goes up to +4, etc.
Also makes craft skills much more important.