I'm just wondering what the rationale is, if anyone knows, why potions cannot be made of spells with a personal range, or "you" as the target. I mean, potions are personal you are the one drinking the liquid...?
Is this just legend stuff, hangover from 3.5? Anyone want to jump on the bandwagon and have Paizo put an errata in unchained to take away that limitation? Potions are already limited to level 3 spells and under, it certainly wouldn't be game breaking to let them have a potion of See Invisibility, now would it?
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Its because of arbitrary nonsense. Don't try to make sense out of it. That way lies madness.
Let's stop the madness then! Paizonian's unite!
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I think the actual reason is that 3.0 designers didn't want martials to be able to drink potions of true strike.
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Yeah, that's pretty much it. Many "personal" spells are designed to shore up the weaknesses of wizard-type casters and would be considered overpowered on fighter-types.
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I think the actual reason is that 3.0 designers didn't want martials to be able to drink potions of true strike.
And Shield.
Great question. I had that thought myself. It makes more sense for personal spells be potions than touch spells. Though, I want my fly potion. So, I guess I can't complain.
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Same reason Personal spells exist in the first place - to make sure certain magic effects are only available to certain characters. It's annoying enough having to fight a guy in plate mail without him having Mirror Image and Shield as well.
I mean, the actual result of the rule is to create class disparity in favor of Wizards, but I can see what they were going for.
I'd suggest a better solution would be to make spells like See Invisibility non-Personal.
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Yeah, that's pretty much it. Many "personal" spells are designed to shore up the weaknesses of wizard-type casters and would be considered overpowered on fighter-types.
Really?! I think it's already been proven that casters are FAR better than martials, hasn't it? Can't we at least give the poor martials some "personal" potions to shore up their weaknesses?
These days when a fighter wants shield and true strike they just abuse UMD and carry wands. The potion thing is only a limitation to low level martial characters. Past about 6th level it isn't any kind of hindrance to accessing the spell effects they want.
House Ruling that limitation on potions away wont affect your game much.
These days when a fighter wants shield and true strike they just abuse UMD and carry wands. The potion thing is only a limitation to low level martial characters. Past about 6th level it isn't any kind of hindrance to accessing the spell effects they want.
House Ruling that limitation on potions away wont affect your game much.
Your fighters have a lot more skill points than mine, I think.
And scrolls are far harder to activate than wands, which can still be unreliable for low durations in combat.
Potions of blur & displacement still exist though!
I think drinking a potion makes you a willing target of the spell, so it might also be to prevent Potion of Skinsend shenanigans and no-save sleeping potions that last an hour. It does also give Alchemists an interesting niche as the ones who can hand out personal-only buffs.
Won't break much to allow it, but keep an eye out for weird edge cases.
That was my concern when considering that houserule.
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Your fighters have a lot more skill points than mine, I think.These days when a fighter wants shield and true strike they just abuse UMD and carry wands. The potion thing is only a limitation to low level martial characters. Past about 6th level it isn't any kind of hindrance to accessing the spell effects they want.
House Ruling that limitation on potions away wont affect your game much.
Just say no to dump stats.
Just say no to dump stats.Your fighters have a lot more skill points than mine, I think.These days when a fighter wants shield and true strike they just abuse UMD and carry wands. The potion thing is only a limitation to low level martial characters. Past about 6th level it isn't any kind of hindrance to accessing the spell effects they want.
House Ruling that limitation on potions away wont affect your game much.
15 point buy.... I got all 14, wow, I'm the strongest Fighter ever XD
I've never heard of this rule. If it's a potion, you can drink it. There, I houseruled it for my campaign.
I've never heard of this rule. If it's a potion, you can drink it. There, I houseruled it for my campaign.
The rule is you cannot brew a potion with a "range: personal" spell, not that a fighter couldn't drink it.
Wait, all of this no personal spell stuff is completely bypassed with alchemist + Infused potions Discovery, right? (Last I checked this hasn't been plugged.)
15 point buy.... I got all 14, wow, I'm the strongest Fighter ever XDJust say no to dump stats.Your fighters have a lot more skill points than mine, I think.These days when a fighter wants shield and true strike they just abuse UMD and carry wands. The potion thing is only a limitation to low level martial characters. Past about 6th level it isn't any kind of hindrance to accessing the spell effects they want.
House Ruling that limitation on potions away wont affect your game much.
Just say no to 15 point buy too. It's the gateway drug to dump stats.
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I think drinking a potion makes you a willing target of the spell, so it might also be to prevent Potion of Skinsend shenanigans and no-save sleeping potions that last an hour. It does also give Alchemists an interesting niche as the ones who can hand out personal-only buffs.
Won't break much to allow it, but keep an eye out for weird edge cases.
Well, from the developer's mouth/keyboard ...
Potions are like spells cast upon the imbiber. The character taking the potion doesn't get to make any decisions about the effect—the caster who brewed the potion has already done so. The drinker of a potion is both the effective target and the caster of the effect (though the potion indicates the caster level, the drinker still controls the effect).
I'd say that you're entitled to any saves if the spell allows one, but you're out of luck if you're chugging down that potion of Magic Missile.
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I think drinking a potion makes you a willing target of the spell, so it might also be to prevent Potion of Skinsend shenanigans and no-save sleeping potions that last an hour. It does also give Alchemists an interesting niche as the ones who can hand out personal-only buffs.
Won't break much to allow it, but keep an eye out for weird edge cases.
Well, from the developer's mouth/keyboard ...
Potions are like spells cast upon the imbiber. The character taking the potion doesn't get to make any decisions about the effect—the caster who brewed the potion has already done so. The drinker of a potion is both the effective target and the caster of the effect (though the potion indicates the caster level, the drinker still controls the effect).I'd say that you're entitled to any saves if the spell allows one, but you're out of luck if you're chugging down that potion of Magic Missile.
Oh man, I just had this hilarious scene play through my head where some fighter forced a bad guy to drink a potion of magic missiles, and he just keeps saying, "Stop casting magic missiles on yourself. Stop casting magic missiles on yourself." Just like the good ol' days when my brother would grab my wrist and make me punch myself. Good times!
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Spells with target of you or range of personal generally are some of the strongest of their level. You can easily classify them as being worth about half level more than other spells of the same level.
Those spells get that benefit in exchange for the target limitation, a limitation that is kept not allowing them to be made into potions.
Another way you can get around making potions with a range of personal is to take Craft Wondrous Item and make elixirs of True Strike and Shield. An Alchemist would take Master Craftsman Alchemist to get around the fact that he doesn't have a Caster Level. Then you are in business.Wait, all of this no personal spell stuff is completely bypassed with alchemist + Infused potions Discovery, right? (Last I checked this hasn't been plugged.)Yes. Infused extracts can be spells with Range: Personal.
True, but you don't get them at potions prices if they are elixirs.
Oh man, I just had this hilarious scene play through my head where some fighter forced a bad guy to drink a potion of magic missiles, and he just keeps saying, "Stop casting magic missiles on yourself. Stop casting magic missiles on yourself." Just like the good ol' days when my brother would grab my wrist and make me punch myself. Good times!I think drinking a potion makes you a willing target of the spell, so it might also be to prevent Potion of Skinsend shenanigans and no-save sleeping potions that last an hour. It does also give Alchemists an interesting niche as the ones who can hand out personal-only buffs.
Won't break much to allow it, but keep an eye out for weird edge cases.
Well, from the developer's mouth/keyboard ...
Potions are like spells cast upon the imbiber. The character taking the potion doesn't get to make any decisions about the effect—the caster who brewed the potion has already done so. The drinker of a potion is both the effective target and the caster of the effect (though the potion indicates the caster level, the drinker still controls the effect).I'd say that you're entitled to any saves if the spell allows one, but you're out of luck if you're chugging down that potion of Magic Missile.
not so much for fighters as toons with access to the beguiling gift spell haha
And they're not PFS legal.True, but you don't get them at potions prices if they are elixirs.Another way you can get around making potions with a range of personal is to take Craft Wondrous Item and make elixirs of True Strike and Shield. An Alchemist would take Master Craftsman Alchemist to get around the fact that he doesn't have a Caster Level. Then you are in business.Wait, all of this no personal spell stuff is completely bypassed with alchemist + Infused potions Discovery, right? (Last I checked this hasn't been plugged.)Yes. Infused extracts can be spells with Range: Personal.
I didn't know this was PFS-centric, in which case magic item creation feats as a whole are off the board.
For in game logic on this, consider the following:
How would you cast the spell into a potion to brew it if it can only be cast on yourself?
How do you cast spells into a potion that can only be cast on living creatures?
youre not casting it on the potion, youre casting it into the potion.
As I understand things, you're not casting at all - just expending the spell power in some nebulous, undefined manner.
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I think the answer ends up being "because f%*+ you", if we're gonna be honest. Devs don't think a spell should be potion-able, so they make it personal.
I think the answer ends up being "because f@$~ you", if we're gonna be honest. Devs don't think a spell should be potion-able, so they make it personal.this is of course the real reason. Its for balance. I was simply trying to offer a logical reason for it in the game world as well.
You see, there's your problem. Your trying to retcon logic into a system where wizards are world-eaters who plane travel around the multi-verse just for something to do. Logic has no place here. Which, of course, brings us back to the exclusion of some potions because f@$~ you, I said so.
For in game logic on this, consider the following:
How would you cast the spell into a potion to brew it if it can only be cast on yourself?
Wands and scrolls of personal spells are legal...
In-game, some magics are too powerful to be distilled into potions. Many the poor fighter who downed an experimental elemental body potion, only to watch helplessly as his limbs turned to rock and tumbled away from him, one piece at a time.
To the OP:
Because potions are not "personal". A potion is made and then ANYBODY can use it. That's about as impersonal as it gets.
As others here have said, "personal" spells are meant to be used only by the person who casts them. For reasons. We might agree or disagree with the developers about these reasons, but this is the general answer to the question: No sharing of "personal" spells.
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Suddenly, every NPC statblock would be flooded with potions of True Strike, Shield, and See Invisibility.
Have fun with that.
Sometimes, these rules are for the player's safety.
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NPC statblocks are already full of Personal spell potions - flip through the NPC Codex some time. You'll see potions of Mirror Image, Longstrider, Disguise Self, See Invisibility...
I've never been sure whether to remove these, treat them as unique elixirs, or what.
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While I agree with most that it's primarily a mechanical reason - there is an in-game logic to it.
For wands/scrolls the character is still the caster, they're just using the wand/scroll to power it.
For potions, it is the potion itself which is the caster. So - if you drink a potion of mirror image it does cast the spell... and there are now multiple images of that potion in your stomach. Not all that useful. :P