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magnuskn wrote:

How about "Sorry, you formulated your third option in a way which makes me not agree with it anymore, although the general idea is what I'd support.". Sometimes getting too fancy with your wording works out contrary to your intentions.

Pathfinder AP's were too short, since most of them did not reach level 20. IMO, they could either have cut out the fiction (I don't think I read a single piece in ten years) or should have stopped with the bean-counting and just have people level up at certain points in the adventure to get to level 20 at the end. And, yes, I know that both of these options are disliked by some other people, since some people love the fiction and others are strongly pro-bean counting.

You don't like adding numbers or reading stuff? Why do you play Pathfinder?

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Leitner wrote:
DominusMegadeus wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
Iomedae: "Oh holy Inheritor, I beseech thee for thy wisdom and thy blessing."


*120 Sonic Damage*


That's pretty much not even slightly how that encounter is written.


*Deafened, muted, bleeding out, dumped in the woods*

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Arachnofiend wrote:
Iomedae: "Oh holy Inheritor, I beseech thee for thy wisdom and thy blessing."


*120 Sonic Damage*


The Wizard doesn't need to cut off all contact or interaction with the outside world to be impossibly safe. He can just cast Astral Projection from his demiplane and live life the same as anyone else.

The only difference is that when you "kill" his projection, he wakes up in his safety bubble alternate dimension and starts to plot your murder. Which he can do as an astral projection. He can also project up to 10 willing Murder-Buddies. That's 10, minimum, assuming he has no caster level boosts. But hey, you just burned 1,000g off a 20th level character. I'm sure a Wizard with prep time won't be very scary the second time.

You could try some wacky Shulsaga stuff, but they can only throw a DC 15 Will save to end the projection. Maybe they could help with backtracking to the demiplane, but that really puts you in a precarious position. Very few things could possibly have happened if the Wizrd's Astral Projection suddenly ends. The demiplane is unreachable and he was in the Prime Material, so if he didn't see anything there, he knows there's f%+!ery about on the Astral itself. If this is a "properly built" Wizard, then he probably specializes in Divination, so he starts asking questions, and the universe starts answering. He finds the Shulsaga, the Shulsaga knows you, he finds you, game over. You don't have the luxury of small, probing moves like this unless you're 200% sure it leads to killing him posthaste.

It really does seem like a pretty common thing in RPGs though. Like someone said upthread, devs are just incapable of imagining a world where the afterlife doesn't suck. It's not like it's even an adventure-enabling part of the universe, either. It's somehow even more depressing than having no afterlife at all.

Kind of the Shifter class, but they're pretty disappointing. You can focus your feats and spells on things that make you better while wildshaped, but there's no better class than bog-standard Druid.

It's kind weird that Druids don't even get the Beast Shape spells. At least then you could manually trade spellcasting for Wildshape.

Mysterious Stranger wrote:
Why is losing your memories necessarily a bad thing? If you go by the idea that you are only your memories than losing them would indeed be a bad thing, but if you go by the idea that you are more than just your memories that is not the case. If after death you exist in a state of absolute pleasure and joy that causes you to lose your individuality and enter a state of ecstasy that would not be a bad thing.

Losing individuality is the problem. You're not just mind wiped and dropped into eternal paradise. That would still be very troubling, but it'd be a little better. You can't enter a state of ecstasy because there is no you. Joy is only desirable because it's something you experience. 'Being' is a prerequisite for experiencing and the afterlife strips you of that.

The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas is a big hit there, I assume.

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Richard Crawford wrote:
Because after all, it's the GM who's telling the story.

y i k e s

Quentin Coldwater wrote:

Sidetrack: Wouldn't the PCs also be evil, in pretty much every published adventure ever? In every AP, module, or what-have-you, there are human adversaries that need to be defeated. Yeah, evil is evil and needs to be stopped, but rarely do the PCs have any real authority over their targets. You can make it a point to subdue them nonlethally, but there are never (AFAIK) repercussions for killing bad guys. And if you're rewarded for doing a mission which involves killing humanoids, aren't you an assassin as well?

Hell, even the premise of the Pathfinder Society matches that of contract killers. Make sure Thing X happens/doesn't happen/is obtained, and so on, and any casualties on the way are just unfortunate accidents. The Society is basically a group of mercenaries, but that doesn't put them above the law.

Most of this can be summed up as "adventurer life is weird," but still.

Go ask some PFS players about the Decemvirate. Those people give Asmodeus a run for his money.

ShroudedInLight wrote:
I'd like to note that in the Kingmaker RPG I just ran across another crazy aspect of Pharsma, in her inquisitor sending innocent people to their deaths in order to make their families take revenge to defeat an undead.

NE is a valid Pharasmite alignment.

Anything to destroy the abominations. Anything.


If I'm being serious and not nerdraging about Iomedae, Asomodeus is hard to argue against. I concede that the demon lord of "strangers, kidnapping and candy" and others like him are beyond imagination in their awfulness, but they're just not very prevalent. Like Set said, a much more personal, localized Evil. No world altering consequences, much more small strings of crime and blasphemy.

Meanwhile, you have Cheliax being one of the strongest countries on the continent while actively and openly worshiping devils. They already have colonies, and they don't seem like the type to sit back and build higher walls when they're more land to take. Naval juggernaut, power-hungry, expansionist. I'm not saying he doesn't have any competition for Evil badass of the universe, but it's a lot of distant seconds in my book.

One of the worst parts is that I don't think you can ever put enough lipstick on "The Demon Lord of child molestation" to make it a mainstream thing, but people can be turned around to full-blown devil worship in small steps. Devils are about laws, laws are stable, stable is safe. Just like Cheliax's civil war, you can inject Asmodeus right after a big social upheaval or disaster, and people will fall right in line. "I want things to be normal, I want to stop the bandits, I want to go to church and go to work and stop worrying." Asmodeus is also already legal to worship in a number of other places, so it very much normalizes him. The Prince of Law rather than Darkness or Lies. Good PR is scary as Hell.

The Dandy Lion wrote:
Tarik Blackhands wrote:
blahpers wrote:
The Sideromancer wrote:
I'm surprised the infamous trivia contest hasn't been brought up yet.
Wrath of the Righteous's bit with big Io herself. Evidently the main thrust of the situation is players can get blasted for failing know checks. I hear there's more nuance to it than that but I wouldn't touch anything Mythic with a 30ft pole so I can't say for sure.
In the context it made perfect sense to be honest. Testing mythic heroes and all, the punishment is basically a slap on the wrist and most of the questions shouldn't be difficult.

Lawful Good people do not inflict lethal damage on someone who annoys or disrespects them.

Never forgive, never forget.

Iomedae is most Evil, hands down.

HWalsh wrote:
Yqatuba wrote:
So I haven't played or run the game but I still know about the infamous encounter with Iomedae. (Where she forces you to ask questions and hits you for massive sonic damage if you fail, and also permenantly mutes anyone who insults her). So I was thinking instead maybe have her on the verge of tears after losing her herald and instead of punishing people she gives them a magic item (one per character) if they guess right. As for the mockery thing just have her hit them with a silence that lasts the rest of the encounter (meaning the person can't answer any questions so cant get magic items}

Iomedae on the verge of tears? She's the most powerful war goddess. She wouldn't do that.

Alternatively - Any PC willing to mock a God in their own home deserves what they get. It also is only permanent if they don't apologize and/or if they do it again.

Truth, Justice and The Lawful Good Way: Inflict lethal damage on innocent people if they annoy you.

The Hideous Child Tavern

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Balkoth wrote:
Ascalaphus wrote:
However, what is stopping devils from forcing everyone to sign away their souls under duress? Probably the other deities, who don't want their followers stolen away.

Erastil: Hey, have I ever told you about Farmer Bob?

Iomedae: No, who is he?

Erastil: He's a mid-fifties human male, raised a family, staple of the community, all around great guy. Never put a foot wrong his whole life.

Iomedae: Sounds like an ideal follower of yours, I take it something happened to him?

Erastil: Yeah, he got tortured and murdered by devil worshipers. But at least he'll join me in my sacred realm and -- hang on, breaking news. Apparently he was tortured to the point he signed an infernal contract and is now damned to Hell for eternity. Oh well!

Iomedae: Sucks to be him, I suppose. Moving on to another topic...

Sounds about right for Iomedae, honestly. She's basically a devil with good PR.

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The problem is the same as it ever was. Fear spells should be enchantment instead of necromancy.

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In short, diversity in comics is not bad for business. Shitty stories and boring characters are bad for business.

The problem is, as mentioned upthread, creators seem too scared to make a minority/lgbt with any flaws or character at all. So all comic fans ever see of 'diversity' are those bland fakers who replaced their heroes. This leads them to the understandable but mistaken conclusion that diversity = bad.

As a 90's kid myself, I am unreasonably obsessed with John Stewart as GL. But they didn't just put a black guy in a green suit and expect people to like him. He had a past, a personality, a relationship with another member of the team (that wasn't just "omg, she's dating a black guy!?!?!?!"). He was a serious foil to the laidback Flash.

They actually put in effort is what I'm saying. That's the key. You will not be rewarded or accepted for being a boring black guy anymore than you will for being a boring white guy. Don't write a token minority. Write a character who happens to be a minority.

Need to be careful of solutions in search of a problem. Why would you do that? What are you fixing?

_Ozy_ wrote:

Yeah, I don't see how you reliably account for a party with 20', 30', and 40' move characters. Heck, in my last game we had 20' gnome/dwarf, 30' half-orc, 50' Desna cleric + longstider, 60' flying wizard.

How do mapless GMs handle this? I'm honestly curious.

From the posts in this thread, the answer is apparently houseruling all of it out.

Dagger, pretty sure.

Like Jeraa said. Constructed combined with Regeneration (Chaotic) makes Arbiter familiars basically immortal.

Snowlilly wrote:
Matthew Downie wrote:
TxSam88 wrote:
we are having a hard time getting our players from always optimizing their characters. So by getting rid of the classes we've seen to be most troublesome
Isn't that like saying, "We have a problem with people driving drunk, so we're going to ban the types of car they tend to drive"?

Pretty much.

A skilled player can optimize any class, given the time and effort.

Exactly. If there are choices, then one will be better than the other. Choosing the better choice is optimizing.

"Focus on liberation" is basically the MO of every Chaotic Good deity.

I could almost swing a Lamashtu worshiper who wants to free the so-called 'monster races' of the world from their bigoted oppressors. That would be riding the absolute edge of Lamashtu's dogma, but it'd be a breathe of fresh air compared to another Cleric of Milani who never shuts up about breaking the chains of oppression.

Depends if "persuade others" means 'Make Request', 'Influence Attitude' or both.

Whether or not you can use Int to make requests also determines if you can use it for the Diplomacy portion of 'Suggest Course of Action', as well.

You can find all 4 uses listed here.

I FAQ'd, but they'll just say no, even though they've abused invisible casters in their own adventures.

Just seems really disingenuous.

The Decemvirate are really obviously Evil. Like, incredibly so.

If their stated goal is anything besides "empowering the Decemvirate" then the answer to your title is "No".

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Matthew Downie wrote:

Fighters fulfill their intended flavor pretty well:

Some take up arms for glory, wealth, or revenge. Others do battle to prove themselves, to protect others, or because they know nothing else. Still others learn the ways of weaponcraft to hone their bodies in battle and prove their mettle in the forge of war. Lords of the battlefield, fighters are a disparate lot, training with many weapons or just one, perfecting the uses of armor, learning the fighting techniques of exotic masters, and studying the art of combat, all to shape themselves into living weapons. Slightly more than mere thugs, these skilled warriors reveal the true deadliness of their weapons, turning hunks of metal into arms capable of taming kingdoms, slaughtering monsters, and rousing the hearts of armies (though not as well as a bard could). Their skill with weapons and armor is matched only by their lack of any other skills, and their mighty fortitude is matched only by their slow reflexes and weak will. Soldiers, knights, hunters, and artists of war, fighters are unparalleled champions, and woe to those who dare stand against them, except for wizards and such who don't find them much of a problem.

I believe the internet parlance is "top kek". You really had me for a second there.

That is kind of the problem. One of the only reasons to choose a Fighter (if you're unwilling to admit Ranger archetypes and Slayers exist) is that they're not magical dudes. They're regular guys who swing swords and fight dragons anyway.

Sadly, the proposed Fighter doesn't work in an anti-magic field.

Also, Slayers and non-magic Rangers exist. It's okay to move on.

Orfamay Quest wrote:
(The fIghter intimidates, the witch uses evil eye, the cleric bestows a curse, the thief inflicts a Constitution poison, and THEN the target is petrified.)

PCs using poison? A Rogue that isn't too busy "positioning for a sneak attack" to actually do something? What game are you playing?

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Pharasma for being a non-Evil death deity that dislikes undead. Also, no overdone reaper look.


Nethys for casting a spell that lets him see the entire multiverse all at once. "But he went insane", you might say. Sounds like bitter grapes from someone who didn't get to ascend.


Damerrich for being the patron saint of edgelords, but still managing to be a legitimately Good god. Always regret that you were forced to take a life, but never regret taking it.


Vildeis for representing the extremist, hardcore Good that you would expect from an outsider. An angel who stabbed out her eyes with a black dagger so that she would never again have to suffer the sight of evil is one of the most metal things I've ever read in my life.


Lissala is... complicated. I love her for being strict but fair, expecting people to follow their superiors and actually rewarding obedience instead of tricking them into killing their wives or other cartoon villany. Lissala also gave us the Lissalan Snake Sigil spell, which is one of the best ever put to paper by Paizo.

The problem I have with her is her alignment. I'm pretty sure she was supposed to be a Lawful Neutral goddess. I'm aware that James Jacobs has explicitly said she was always LE, but it just never fit to me. Her teachings inspired Xin, a LN wizard, to develop the seven virtues of rule. I understand that you can call anything a virtue if you want, but these virtues were then corrupted into the sins. So you have to tell me how wealth, fertility, honest pride, abundance, eager striving, righteous anger, and rest are Evil. If you can manage that, then try to explain how they got corrupted into the sins if they were always whatever Evil spin the rulers put on them. I've heard it argued that Krune was her high priest and he was Evil. This is true, but he was a Wizard. He could claim to be the high priest of Shelyn if he wanted to. Being LE is also completely okay with a LN god.

In short, Paizo pls.

What a lot of people forget is that slavery is not only by-the-books legal, but culturally acceptable in the vast majority of Golarion. Obviously people have other problems with Asomdeus and Devils in a cosmic sense, but in a place civilized enough that the dirty peasants don't just form a mob and run you out of town, I think most places will have no real issues with an Asmodean. The do-gooder who tries to do something to you would be in the wrong in most places.

Unfortunately, Magnimar in particular is a bitter rival of Korvosa and demeans them with the nickname "Little Cheliax". They're one of the least likely city-states to accept open devil worship.

Fortunately, this means Korvosa would be a great place for you to do this. Slavery is illegal, but they have a large public temple to Big A anyway. They contract Shelynites to make stuff for them. They have a friendly rivalry with the temple of Abadar in regards to legal and bureaucratic duties in the city. It's a rather new part of the city, but it's done a good job fitting in. Hell, they only sacrifice willing volunteers in order to stay on the city's good side. It's as ingrained as anything outside of Cheliax itself.

Plenty on this very board, but yours kind of takes the cake.

I recently got the three Shadowrun videogames on Steam (Returns, Dragonfall, Hong Kong). It's a really cool world and it must be nice to draw cyborg samurai troll bankrobbers for a living. Your cover looks great, btw.

Very much inspiring me to try the tabletop game.

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I mean, halflings and gnomes exist. You could outfit a whole small-race castle.

That Elder Thing is amazing.

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I'm FAQing this because I think it's important, despite the near certainty that devs will say no because they dislike people having fun.

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Yeah, necromancy losing healing and getting fear was an awful trade, both mechanically and flavor-wise.

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DominusMegadeus wrote:
I'm going to guess, just a shot in the dark really, that this topic ends with ChaosTicket saying Druids are worthless as-is, and should be Full-BAB with 8 + Int ranks per level and 3.5e Wildshape.

A little off target (I erred towards Fighter/Rogue Druid, he went Wizard/Cleric Druid), but I still feel vindicated.

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I'm going to guess, just a shot in the dark really, that this topic ends with ChaosTicket saying Druids are worthless as-is, and should be Full-BAB with 8 + Int ranks per level and 3.5e Wildshape.

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Zygomind isn't even an encounter. It's a campaign in and of itself.

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DominusMegadeus wrote:

Wall of Thorns is so obnoxiously strong.

It has no save or SR and every option the spell lists for being stuck in it is coupled with a horrible drawback.

Magical fire can work, after 10 minutes.

You can slash through with a machete at one square per hour.

If you have good strength, you can power through with full-round actions and still take the damage.

If you do manage to move at this snail's pace, don't worry, it still sucks. The thorn bush itself is almost 100 cubic feet and last for an hour and a half. The Druid might have cast it from anywhere within ~200 feet of you, and his whole party had time to set up an ambush for you.

This is not counting the possibility that the druid turned into a Behemoth Hippopotamus and came in after you because he's immune to it from Woodland Stride.

It's only balanced by being on the spell list of a 9th-level caster who can turn into an elemental.


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Java Man wrote:
This all sounds very reasonable, but can someone point out the rule that prevents a CE cleric from taking the Devil subdomain of Evil? Or a LG cleric taking it off of Law? Assuming that the deity or philosophy domain list contained it, which admittedly would be odd.

Probably no rule against it if you can find a LN or NE god that offers it. The trouble, as you alluded to, is finding that god. I wouldn't hold my breathe for such a deity being published anytime soon.

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There's a Lawful Version of the subdomain and an Evil version of it.

Devil (Law) will still have the other domain power and spells of the Law domain, while Devil (Evil) will have the other domain power and spells of the Evil domain.

You can be Lawful Evil (Take either one), Lawful Neutral (Take Law), or Neutral Evil (Take Evil).

"Polymorph" is the word you're looking for. I don't know what kind of drugs you were on that lead you to "transmogrification".

To answer your question:

d20 PFSRD wrote:

Polymorph: a polymorph spell transforms your physical body to take on the shape of another creature. While these spells make you appear to be the creature, granting you a +10 bonus on Disguise skill checks, they do not grant you all of the abilities and powers of the creature. Each polymorph spell allows you to assume the form of a creature of a specific type, granting you a number of bonuses to your ability scores and a bonus to your natural armor. In addition, each polymorph spell can grant you a number of other benefits, including movement types, resistances, and senses. If the form you choose grants these benefits, or a greater ability of the same type, you gain the listed benefit. If the form grants a lesser ability of the same type, you gain the lesser ability instead. Your base speed changes to match that of the form you assume. If the form grants a swim or burrow speed, you maintain the ability to breathe if you are swimming or burrowing. The DC for any of these abilities equals your DC for the polymorph spell used to change you into that form.

In addition to these benefits, you gain any of the natural attacks of the base creature, including proficiency in those attacks. These attacks are based on your base attack bonus, modified by your Strength or Dexterity as appropriate, and use your Strength modifier for determining damage bonuses.

If a polymorph spell causes you to change size, apply the size modifiers appropriately, changing your armor class, attack bonus, Combat Maneuver Bonus, and Stealth skill modifiers. Your ability scores are not modified by this change unless noted by the spell.

Unless otherwise noted, polymorph spells cannot be used to change into specific individuals. Although many of the fine details can be controlled, your appearance is always that of a generic member of that creature's type. Polymorph spells cannot be used to assume the form of a creature with a template or an advanced version of a creature.

When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin type, all of your gear melds into your body. Items that provide constant bonuses and do not need to be activated continue to function while melded in this way (with the exception of armor and shield bonuses, which cease to function). Items that require activation cannot be used while you maintain that form. While in such a form, you cannot cast any spells that require material components (unless you have the Eschew Materials or Natural Spell feat), and can only cast spells with somatic or verbal components if the form you choose has the capability to make such movements or speak, such as a dragon. Other polymorph spells might be subject to this restriction as well, if they change you into a form that is unlike your original form (subject to GM discretion). If your new form does not cause your equipment to meld into your form, the equipment resizes to match your new size.

While under the effects of a polymorph spell, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form (such as keen senses, scent, and darkvision), as well as any natural attacks and movement types possessed by your original form. You also lose any class features that depend upon form, but those that allow you to add features (such as sorcerers that can grow claws) still function. While most of these should be obvious, the GM is the final arbiter of what abilities depend on form and are lost when a new form is assumed. Your new form might restore a number of these abilities if they are possessed by the new form.

You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell. In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.

If a polymorph spell is cast on a creature that is smaller than Small or larger than Medium, first adjust its ability scores to one of these two sizes using the following table before applying the bonuses granted by the polymorph spell. (see Table: Ability Adjustments from Size Changes)

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Nermal2097 wrote:
No actual need for goatees (two of my PCs are women)

Sir, that is the best reason for them to have goatees.

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Oath Against Chaos Paladin of Abadar or Tyrant Anti-paladin of Asmodeus.

More seriously, a Cleric -> Hellknight Signifier is probably the best you can do. Cast OP spells, hit things with a mace, heilworship a Lawful god.

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Orfamay Quest wrote:
But no one ever was assaulted in the middle of a library by a folio volume.

You must hang out in some lame libraries if you've never been assaulted by a book.

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I understand that the business isn't easy for non-white actors. It goes without saying that anyone with a soul supports gender/racial/whatever equality. In this specific case however, it appears a Japanese actress was never even on the table. Which makes sense to me. Just visually, Major has never screamed "JAPAN". Purple haired chick with red eyes, preference for leather jackets. She's the epitome of 'anime', of course, but not really a Japanese character in any way that the actress' ethnicity matters.

That being said, ScarJo isn't the best, Lucy was garbage from the get-go, and this will probably be another embarrassment. It has potential, but potential is worthless in Hollywood if you don't get results.

I only hope Togusa and his badass revolver get enough screentime.

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