Pondering the ethics of the world of Golarion.
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...Yes. They are still Humanoid in type. There's no real way to justify it as not. Not even "but they're in animal form" because they turn back into their humanoid shape on death.
That word doesn't have as much meaning in a fantasy world. In our world, the creature needs to be the same species. For example, it's not cannibalism for one species of spider to eat another species of spider.
It's pretty well established tgat at the least Typw or that equivalent determines this for fantasy settings. Orcs and Ogres are often described as cannibals for example...because they eat humans and elves. Not because they eat each other.
Contrast man-eating dragons, which are not.
Are there any instances of an animal contracting lycanthropy and becomeing a were-creature vs a humanoid doing the same?
That word doesn't have as much meaning in a fantasy world. In our world, the creature needs to be the same species. For example, it's not cannibalism for one species of spider to eat another species of spider.
Generally, in setting, cannibalism applies whenever one intelligent creature eats another intelligent creature.
There are exceptions, of course. I mean...dragon crafting doesn't need you to be evil. And while people often focus on dragons eating people, it has a rather different tone than when a zombie or such eats a person. The power and shape differential does have some effect.
And hell, lizardfolk are generally neutral, and they have a large cultural norm when it comes to...'not wasting meat'.
But generally, eating other sentient creatures is cannibalism.
I deleted a wall of text realizing I went off topic, here is the retry:
It would be cannibalism if the consuming party was aware that these were-creatures are intelligent beings.
In a fantasy setting like Golarion, the races could be analogs to the various nations of Humans on Earth.
Dodging the cannibalism label is playing Karma Houdini and smacks of pettiness. By species no, it is not literal cannibalism. Fine. What would the word defining the act of consumption of another another species, with whom the consumer is able to communicate through dialogue, thought, the written word, art, and heck, even able to reproduce with, be?
I've played a Gnome Druid who ate, processed, and turned to manufactured goods the threats he and his group defeated, be they Animals, Magical Beasts, or Humanoids. He followed a creed where Nature Abhors Waste, but he was fully aware that processing those bandits into trail rations constituted cannibalism since he viewed his fallen foes and himself as people.
Generally any humanoid eating another humanoid is considered cannibalism.
I would base it on being the same type.
So a humanoid eating another Humanoid was cannibalism. But if a Dragon, or awakened Direbear did it, then not.
The problem is that in our world there is only one species considered "people".
Another issue is that it's hard to define species in a world with fantasy fertility. As dragons and people can reproduce and their children are fertile, you could argue that humans and dragons are the same species.
Are there any instances of an animal contracting lycanthropy and becomeing a were-creature vs a humanoid doing the same?
Not exactly. There's Therianthropes though.
If it's sapient, it's cannibalism in any way that matters.
If it's cannibalism when the lycanthrope eats you then it's cannibalism when you eat the lycanthrope.
Are there any instances of an animal contracting lycanthropy and becomeing a were-creature vs a humanoid doing the same?Not exactly. There's Therianthropes though.
Ugh. Frog God Games.
Are there any instances of an animal contracting lycanthropy and becomeing a were-creature vs a humanoid doing the same?Not exactly. There's Therianthropes though.
Heh... "Asswere".
Heh... "Asswere".Are there any instances of an animal contracting lycanthropy and becomeing a were-creature vs a humanoid doing the same?Not exactly. There's Therianthropes though.
Is that someone that becomes a jerk by the light of the full moon?
Are there any instances of an animal contracting lycanthropy and becomeing a were-creature vs a humanoid doing the same?Not exactly. There's Therianthropes though.Ugh. Frog God Games.
Oddly enough, that is what prompted this question.
Depends, are you talking about Were- creatures or -were creatures? The former are intelligent humanoid/monstrous humanoid shapeshifters that aren't druids who turn into animal and/or hybrid forms during certain periods based on a lunar cycle. Their natural form is close enough to human that eating them would be considered cannibalism.
The latter, however, is where things get tricky. They are shapeshifting animals who for whatever reason are as intelligent as the humanoid/monstrous humanoid races and have the ability to take humanoid/hybrid forms. Note that while similar, these do not include the Kitsune which have the "hybrid" form as their natural form and are distinct from the likes of foxweres. By one judgment they're intelligent creatures so eating them would be cannibalism, by another they're still animals albeit somewhat magical ones.
It seems as if there should be a different word for intelligent creatures eating each other. Scientifically, it's only canabalism if it is the same species.
You know, I think to be safe, you should just either not eat anything that's intelligent and human-shaped, or (if you are trying to be a cannibal) eat things that are intelligent and human shaped. Broad strokes never hurt anyone.
Dragons and humans being the same species isn't as strange as elves and humans. Elves aren't even from the same planet.
It isn't like not being cannibalism makes it "right". Or it's not like cannibalism is necessarily "wrong". If you are in a starvation situation, you do what you have to to survive.
Could you pull a "Walking Dead" on the were-creature, keeping him alive and in animal form and eat him without it being cannibalism?
If you have to ask whether it's cannibalism then it probably is; I'd suggest not doing it (or doing it if you're in favor of cannibalism).
"Cannibalism" is mostly irrelevant to the "ethics" of this situation. It is not unethical for a female spider to eat the male during copulation. It is not unethical to eat a dead human, if the only other option is death by starvation, though it is breaking a taboo in most cultures.
The problem is that in our world there is only one species considered "people".
Another issue is that it's hard to define species in a world with fantasy fertility. As dragons and people can reproduce and their children are fertile, you could argue that humans and dragons are the same species.
Sorry for a nitpicking but you are operating on terribly obsolete definition of species. Being able to breed with another creature does not mean they both belong to the same species - crossbreeding between separate species is well documented in biology and can give rise to new species. Of course the primary difference between our world and fantasy in that matter is the distance between species being crossbreed in this way and much greater chance of producing fertile offspring (which does happen in our world but is rare).
In a fantasy world, I tend to think that the definition for 'cannibalism' becomes 'eating another sentient species'. This is what makes bad things bad, and ferocious things ferocious, but also why good dragons don't romp around using orcs and goblins as their primary food source.
but also why good dragons don't romp around using orcs and goblins as their primary food source.
They don't?
I thought they did. Well, more or less. They pretty much just go hunting and eat what they want. As "good" dragons, they generally don't include villages of people as being on their menu, nor do they generally just snag cattle from the poeple's farms, but they probably hunt in the mountains or woods or whatever just like people do, looking for edible game and killing whatever they find that is appealing. If that happens to be a group of orcs wandering around, so be it.
What do they do in your world, buy a dude ranch in Colorado and raise cattle?
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but also why good dragons don't romp around using orcs and goblins as their primary food source.They don't?
I thought they did. Well, more or less. They pretty much just go hunting and eat what they want. As "good" dragons, they generally don't include villages of people as being on their menu, nor do they generally just snag cattle from the poeple's farms, but they probably hunt in the mountains or woods or whatever just like people do, looking for edible game and killing whatever they find that is appealing. If that happens to be a group of orcs wandering around, so be it.
What do they do in your world, buy a dude ranch in Colorado and raise cattle?
Now I want to have an ancient copper dragon that just lives on a farms raising cattle and maybe some exotic animals for food just hanging out giving sage "farmer" advice to anyone who passes by. He also wears a straw hat and smokes a corncob pipe. Which is actually several corn cobs cobbled together.
I think I would use Narnian ethics in regard to eating non-human creatures -- if it could talk when it was alive, you DON'T eat it.
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He also wears a straw hat and smokes a corncob pipe. Which is actually several corn cobs cobbled together.
Isn't that a corncobble pipe?
but also why good dragons don't romp around using orcs and goblins as their primary food source.They don't?
I thought they did. Well, more or less. They pretty much just go hunting and eat what they want. As "good" dragons, they generally don't include villages of people as being on their menu, nor do they generally just snag cattle from the poeple's farms, but they probably hunt in the mountains or woods or whatever just like people do, looking for edible game and killing whatever they find that is appealing. If that happens to be a group of orcs wandering around, so be it.
What do they do in your world, buy a dude ranch in Colorado and raise cattle?
Weeeelll ... in my world, that of Homecoming, two things: first, dragons are not color-coded for your convenience. Coloration is a matter of place-of-living and what the dragon subconsciously has chosen (over an extended period of time) as being most useful for its survival. Second, there is no race that is automatically, universally evil. Serious evil is as tough to achieve as serious good; therefore, while one might consider the greenskin tribes in Homecoming barbarous, they are not evil.
This might've been said best in an in-character post:
.. and then Brand talks about cruelty and butchery.
"Humans," the black orc Nok Dha'Lek says in a deep, rich bass voice that sets bones in your chests shivering with sympathetic vibration, "humans wipe out questing parties without cause, on mere suspicion. Humans destroy greenskin trade caravans with no knowledge but that a human caravan, bound for the north, has been picked clean of worthwhile goods and animals, not caring that their humans ignorantly fled the approach of a peaceable but wary trading column, heavy with guards - and the foolish humans fell victim to the dangers of the wilds through which both travel. Humans fall upon goblin alchemists and their apprentices, upon orc hamlets while their hunters are away, and raze them to the ground, leaving alive not a buck or doe or skittering bolkin." Without looking away, Nok spits to the side. "Talk to me of cruel greenskin butchery again, human, and you best be doing so with your axe already on its way."
So yeah - while it's clear that when you say 'people' (from your 'villages of people') you mean typical PC races of human, halfling, elf, dwarf, gnome, and maybe even occasionally a singular half-orc or two, it's clear that for you and your game, other sentients aren't people - that the concept doesn't span across all sentient races. Definitely a 'smite first, detect evil later' sort of approach. To be fair, that's probably the standard Pathfinder/D&D approach - which, to be honest, seems immensely bland.
What do they do in your world, buy a dude ranch in Colorado and raise cattle?Now I want to have an ancient copper dragon that just lives on a farms raising cattle and maybe some exotic animals for food just hanging out giving sage "farmer" advice to anyone who passes by. He also wears a straw hat and smokes a corncob pipe. Which is actually several corn cobs cobbled together.
I ... might use this. Let's face it, all a dragon would really have to do to keep cattle (or whatever) effectively within their range is to regularly mark territory around his ranch ... and then he winds up with a sizeable herd which he can regularly sell to others, including other dragons.
Now, I'm about to go into a whole thing, so ...
And what are your consequences for that? Now, instead of needing roughly one acre of land per person to provide for their food needs for a year (this is at roughly the consumption habits of the general population of the modern United States, including the comparative overabundance of meat in the diet), an individual only needs, say, half an acre of land to provide for their food needs - or perhaps a full acre (instead of 3 acres) if you're on a meat-sparse diet. Great!!
... and of course, that means that you can have sizeable cities with smaller 'bread-baskets' supplying them. Instead of needing 90% of your population farming the area around a city in order to supply it, you wind up with what we might consider an 'innate mechanization', in that you get the same effect as mechanization, but without the actual machinery: one needs to farm only half or a third as much land to provide for the food needs of a large population, while being able to farm just as much as before. You wind up with being able to have a greater number of people in the cities and towns: instead of 9:1 in favor of the country, you might instead wind up with 3:1 in favor of the country - or essentially more than a x3 (actually three and a third) increase in city population.
All this without even touching active magic targeted to enhance crop growth ...
Generally, though, I would consider it cannibalism or a close cousin for one sentient to consume another.
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Beyond the definition, there is a certain connotation to cannibalism. Think of it this way, if there was a demon lord of cannibalism (and there probably is), he/she/it would probably get power from the horror of someone of someone doing it out of desperation (Donner Party) or of the horror of someone discovering the act (preferably from the demon lord's perspective if the victim was someone loved by the discoverer).Zura
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[url=http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Kabriri]Kabriri
might have a certain relation to cannibalism too.Eating a sentient humanoid without horror is like going to Disneyland after the park is closed and the rides are shut down: technically you have been there, but you haven't really got the full experience.
Unless you belong to one of the cultures that accepts ritual cannibalism as a normal part of their lives, where consuming flesh of a dead relative is expected as a show of reverence, and keeping soul within the family.
I always define cannibalism in my games as a being of higher mind of one type consuming the flesh of a similar being of higher mind of the same type. In this case Humanoid for Humanoid, so very much yes.