So people outside the 20-foot radius can neither see nor hear the display?
So people outside the 20-foot radius can neither see nor hear the display?
Only if they are blind and deaf.
What if she 5foot steps into the earth via Earth Glide before Gather Power, how far would the audible display reach then?
What if she 5foot steps into the earth via Earth Glide before Gather Power, how far would the audible display reach then?
Can't find the post, but I recall Mark saying the visual elements wouldn't go through your typical dungeon room wall, so I imagine they wouldn't come up out of the ground either. For my geokineticist I'd probably still describe rattling rocks or fissures opening or something, though. Makes more sense to me.
Only if they are blind and deaf.
So people outside the 20-foot radius can neither see nor hear the display?
But it says it is limited to a 20-foot radius, so how do people outside of that area even know what's going on if the display's sound and visibility only extend that far?
To put it another way, a torch lights up only a small area, but the torch light can still be seen from far away.
So how does one determine the extent at which the effect can be seen or heard?
Can it be seen/head from 50 feet? 100? 1000?
What is the Perception DC to perceive it? 0? -20? -1000?
So how does one determine the extent at which the effect can be seen or heard?
Can it be seen/head from 50 feet? 100? 1000?
What is the Perception DC to perceive it? 0? -20? -1000?
You need to take into account geography and line of sight. There is no rule to give you the absolute answer.
So how does one determine the extent at which the effect can be seen or heard?
Can it be seen/head from 50 feet? 100? 1000?
What is the Perception DC to perceive it? 0? -20? -1000?
Imagine a 40ft diameter sphere, so a bit smaller than something like a hot air balloon. How far away can you usually see that?
Imagine an extremely loud noise, like maybe a motorcycle or automatic weapons fire. How far away can you usually hear that?
If there is no rule covering your interpretation, than surely my interpretation is the correct one.
If there is no rule covering your interpretation, than surely my interpretation is the correct one.
It just seems strange, like you're saying that anyone outside the explosion radius of an Alchemist's bomb wouldn't be able to see this explosion.
I'd put the DC at -10 for Hear sound of battle, since it's making a lot of noise like a battle would. Then adding perception modifiers as appropriate. It definitely is noticeable outside of the 20ft radius. That's how big the display is, not the range of noticing it.
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I'd put the DC at -10 for Hear sound of battle, since it's making a lot of noise like a battle would. Then adding perception modifiers as appropriate. It definitely is noticeable outside of the 20ft radius. That's how big the display is, not the range of noticing it.
This sounds like a fair interpretation, although really however you want to run it is fine if it works for everyone at your table. At PFS though, be prepared for a barrage of different people's "common sense."
If there is no rule covering your interpretation, than surely my interpretation is the correct one.It just seems strange, like you're saying that anyone outside the explosion radius of an Alchemist's bomb wouldn't be able to see this explosion.
An alchemist's bomb doesn't specifically reference sight and sound. Gather Power does.
Another question. With the Elemental Annihilator can you use weapon finesse with your attack if you wield the Devastating Infusion with two hands?
Another question. With the Elemental Annihilator can you use weapon finesse with your attack if you wield the Devastating Infusion with two hands?
If you formed it to be a light weapon, it can be finessed. However, light weapons typically can't be held in two hands for increased strength bonus. That situation would be the same here for 1.5 x Con modifier.
Light: A light weapon is used in one hand. It is easier to use in one's off hand than a one-handed weapon is, and can be used while grappling (see Combat). Add the wielder's Strength modifier to damage rolls for melee attacks with a light weapon if it's used in the primary hand, or half the wielder's Strength bonus if it's used in the off hand. Using two hands to wield a light weapon gives no advantage on damage; the Strength bonus applies as though the weapon were held in the wielder's primary hand only.
If there is no rule covering your interpretation, than surely my interpretation is the correct one.
Ignore this person...
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If there is no rule covering your interpretation, than surely my interpretation is the correct one.Ignore this person...
Feel free to start another thread about this entire thing, but please don't clutter up this one.
Also what has Occult Realms done for the kineticist? I heard someone mention something about it, but I can't remember. Is it anything worth including in the guide? I actually have some content for the kineticist I'm working on, and I might include a link to it in the guide for those of you who are looking for more kineticist content.
Occult Realms only has Elemental Saturation for kineticists, areas where the elemental planes are strongly linked to Golarion other other planes (though very common in the Elemental Planes). If one becomes attuned to an area with some appropriate skill checks, the kineticist can get access to a new wild talent (it says they can learn it, I think that means it's available to be picked up from regular wild talent progression/Extra Wild Talent feat and not that they'd get an extra talent on top of regular advancement automatically.) The book lists several example locations for each element with an example specific location and power.
The introductory language is sort of ambiguous in parts about whether it's a bonus wild talent or it replaces an existing one, but the Earth Child talent, at least, makes it clear in the attunement section that it replaces and existing wild talent. That must have been what they meant for all of them, although it makes this a very "meh" addition to Kineticists. You already have to seek these places out and pass a (sometimes hard and dangerous) test just to have access.
Is it limited your primary element or can you attune to any of your expanded element?
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The introductory language is sort of ambiguous in parts about whether it's a bonus wild talent or it replaces an existing one, but the Earth Child talent, at least, makes it clear in the attunement section that it replaces and existing wild talent. That must have been what they meant for all of them, although it makes this a very "meh" addition to Kineticists. You already have to seek these places out and pass a (sometimes hard and dangerous) test just to have access.
So what I'm taking from this is that it's not really guide worthy? It doesn't sound like the kind of thing I could really include a rating to aside from "elemental leylines good!", so everything else is a moot point.
The introductory language is sort of ambiguous in parts about whether it's a bonus wild talent or it replaces an existing one, but the Earth Child talent, at least, makes it clear in the attunement section that it replaces and existing wild talent. That must have been what they meant for all of them, although it makes this a very "meh" addition to Kineticists. You already have to seek these places out and pass a (sometimes hard and dangerous) test just to have access.So what I'm taking from this is that it's not really guide worthy? It doesn't sound like the kind of thing I could really include a rating to aside from "elemental leylines good!", so everything else is a moot point.
I would agree that it's not necessarily worth putting in the Guide. I did not find the new abilities all that exciting.
Occult Realms give the Fire kineticist the ability to literally burn away an enchantment on someone, Earth alows you to become an Oread with the crystalline body racial trait, water allows you to control how salty or fresh a container of water is, air give a boost to your wind defense talent and the ability to ignore the effect of weather on your air blasts, and aether allows you to apply Primal Magic effects on your blast.
The introductory language is sort of ambiguous in parts about whether it's a bonus wild talent or it replaces an existing one, but the Earth Child talent, at least, makes it clear in the attunement section that it replaces and existing wild talent. That must have been what they meant for all of them, although it makes this a very "meh" addition to Kineticists. You already have to seek these places out and pass a (sometimes hard and dangerous) test just to have access.So what I'm taking from this is that it's not really guide worthy? It doesn't sound like the kind of thing I could really include a rating to aside from "elemental leylines good!", so everything else is a moot point.
It's so entirely dependent on a GM even allowing it or bothering to work it into a campaign I'm not even sure it's worth being in the guide. The book lists example powers (which are still pretty flavourful and cool) but any other powers are gonna have to be houseruled in as custom powers.
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Hey all, got a question for the guide's followers.
Now a while back in a different thread (I want to say alchemist, but I can't remember), I said I'd never include 3P content unless I was involved in it. I'll admit I said that back when someone was asking about putting DSP material in, but now I'm actually doing 3P work, and one of those 3P things is additional material for the kineticist.
So yeah, I do plan on including it, but I wanted to ask everyone how I should. Would you rather it be integrated with the other material (obviously marked as 3P, possibly by highlighting it so there's no confusion), or only mentioned at some point and kept in a separate document?
I still feel this is a community guide, so I'd rather not include something abruptly when it's not wanted.
Since it is 3P, I think the best approach would be to add it as a link to a separate document as a footnote or something.
I'd personally say integrate it into the guide, with all the indication that it is 3rd party, just for cohesion purposes, but I wouldn't be opposed to have it mentioned and linked to in another document.
I would favor it having it's own section to distinguish the two. That said, if you are working personally on the things perhaps it would help to have a neutral party review your review.
You might do an entirely 3rd party category, going through section by section as you do in your main guide. Keeping it in the guide, but separate from it at the same time.
One of my only peeves with using the D20pfsrd is that there are several pages that integrate 3rd party and 1st party stuff together, but don't really distinguish between the two that easily. You might read an ability, think it's really cool and want to use it, only to find out later it's 3rd party. I'd hate for something similar to happen in your guide, especially for people playing in PFS.
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I would favor it having it's own section to distinguish the two. That said, if you are working personally on the things perhaps it would help to have a neutral party review your review.
Trust me, I've having someone look over this content, I already know well enough from when I did homebrew that I'm not perfect, so nothing is being written without another set of eyes on it. I plan on asking someone to review it again after it's about to go gold so I can make sure that I'm making something that's both flavorful and balanced with current content, as I'm not looking to just make something better than what's out currently.
I would favor it having it's own section to distinguish the two. That said, if you are working personally on the things perhaps it would help to have a neutral party review your review.Trust me, I've having someone look over this content, I already know well enough from when I did homebrew that I'm not perfect, so nothing is being written without another set of eyes on it. I plan on asking someone to review it again after it's about to go gold so I can make sure that I'm making something that's both flavorful and balanced with current content, as I'm not looking to just make something better than what's out currently.
I think what Mortonator is saying is that someone neutral should be the one who handles the guide/ratings of your own material, not that all rules content needs a developer (which is also true).
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You might do an entirely 3rd party category, going through section by section as you do in your main guide. Keeping it in the guide, but separate from it at the same time.
One of my only peeves with using the D20pfsrd is that there are several pages that integrate 3rd party and 1st party stuff together, but don't really distinguish between the two that easily. You might read an ability, think it's really cool and want to use it, only to find out later it's 3rd party. I'd hate for something similar to happen in your guide, especially for people playing in PFS.
Well I do have an idea for how to separate it out that'll make it obvious what is and isn't 3rd party.
Here's an idea of what I would have planned for it, this is just a sample.
And yeah, I feel you, the PFSRD isn't always super great at splitting content. Let me know if you think this is enough of a difference, the color was just the first one I went to, although I still want to pick something that easily conveys the color, so a light tone that's easy to distinguish is ideal.
I think what Mortonator is saying is that someone neutral should be the one who handles the guide/ratings of your own material, not that all rules content needs a developer (which is also true).
That's fair, I have a few people in mind, although if anyone thinks they'd like to do the reviews for my personal content, I'd be glad to talk with you about it.
I think what Mortonator is saying is that someone neutral should be the one who handles the guide/ratings of your own material, not that all rules content needs a developer (which is also true).I would favor it having it's own section to distinguish the two. That said, if you are working personally on the things perhaps it would help to have a neutral party review your review.Trust me, I've having someone look over this content, I already know well enough from when I did homebrew that I'm not perfect, so nothing is being written without another set of eyes on it. I plan on asking someone to review it again after it's about to go gold so I can make sure that I'm making something that's both flavorful and balanced with current content, as I'm not looking to just make something better than what's out currently.
Pretty much this.
The developer can easily see (or sometimes even fail to see!) the ideal situation of a ability. Reality is rarely so kind.
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The developer can easily see (or sometimes even fail to see!) the ideal situation of a ability. Reality is rarely so kind.
So you're saying I can't just rate everything purple except for the options that I rate *COLOR OF A GUITAR SOLO* due to awesomeness? I mean it's my guide, I see no conflict of interest here. There is one, but I don't see it.
The developer can easily see (or sometimes even fail to see!) the ideal situation of a ability. Reality is rarely so kind.So you're saying I can't just rate everything purple except for the options that I rate *COLOR OF A GUITAR SOLO* due to awesomeness? I mean it's my guide, I see no conflict of interest here. There is one, but I don't see it.
I didn't know you could use darkness infusion on your eyes.
The developer can easily see (or sometimes even fail to see!) the ideal situation of a ability. Reality is rarely so kind.So you're saying I can't just rate everything purple except for the options that I rate *COLOR OF A GUITAR SOLO* due to awesomeness? I mean it's my guide, I see no conflict of interest here. There is one, but I don't see it.
Does a kineticist perform the best air guitar solos?
Does a kineticist perform the best air guitar solos?The developer can easily see (or sometimes even fail to see!) the ideal situation of a ability. Reality is rarely so kind.So you're saying I can't just rate everything purple except for the options that I rate *COLOR OF A GUITAR SOLO* due to awesomeness? I mean it's my guide, I see no conflict of interest here. There is one, but I don't see it.
Only if you have the Rock Element.
Rock element is trademarked by me, no stealing N. Jolly!
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Does a kineticist perform the best air guitar solos?The developer can easily see (or sometimes even fail to see!) the ideal situation of a ability. Reality is rarely so kind.So you're saying I can't just rate everything purple except for the options that I rate *COLOR OF A GUITAR SOLO* due to awesomeness? I mean it's my guide, I see no conflict of interest here. There is one, but I don't see it.Only if you have the Rock Element.
Rock element is trademarked by me, no stealing N. Jolly!
I'm sorry, I can't hear you, I'm busy copyrighting the "hard earth" element, which is totally different from Rock but acts in exactly the same way.
The developer can easily see (or sometimes even fail to see!) the ideal situation of a ability. Reality is rarely so kind.So you're saying I can't just rate everything purple except for the options that I rate *COLOR OF A GUITAR SOLO* due to awesomeness? I mean it's my guide, I see no conflict of interest here. There is one, but I don't see it.
Hehe, yeah precisely. Though if you write something where everything would be reasonably labeled purple (better than the usual blue "must have") in a guide, that actually probably means it's significant power creep and also constrains builds into using precisely that content, thus lowering options. I try to aim for mostly green ("this is a good option if you have space for it") on my personal ratings to keep options open, with the knowledge that of course it'll need to be the case for some things to be orange ("situational") to cover those situations and some things that are sort of the flagstones of an element will be blue+.
If you keep it all in one Guide, I would personally like to see it have its own section within the Guide as opposed to integrating it into the other sections. Within each section you could put a footnote, something along the lines "For additional 3pp options, follow the link here." That way there is no confusion; however, I do not necessarily feel that an entirely new Guide would be required.
Yea, if you're going to keep it on the same guide then definitely its own section. You can link to it from the main but it should be completely separate and clearly marked as 3P material.
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Hehe, yeah precisely. Though if you write something where everything would be reasonably labeled purple (better than the usual blue "must have") in a guide, that actually probably means it's significant power creep and also constrains builds into using precisely that content, thus lowering options. I try to aim for mostly green ("this is a good option if you have space for it") on my personal ratings to keep options open, with the knowledge that of course it'll need to be the case for some things to be orange ("situational") to cover those situations and some things that are sort of the flagstones of an element will be blue+.
I've been trying to keep around green since my design goals are 20% orange, 60% green, 15% blue, 5% purple. Really, one or two options being purple would be as far as I'd go, and even that's stretching it. Like as you can see, there's not a lot of purple in the guide which I consider a credit to you as a designer, really only Wings of Air hits that for me.
I'm also aware that there needs to be some orange for both theme and balance, that things can't all be great. Situation utility is as important as general versatility. I think most people assume an orange option is bad, when that's really not the case, it's just more specialized for the most part.
Green should be the core, while blue the standouts, and very rarely a purple option. I myself guide the purple option heavily, and don't just go throwing it around.
If you keep it all in one Guide, I would personally like to see it have its own section within the Guide as opposed to integrating it into the other sections. Within each section you could put a footnote, something along the lines "For additional 3pp options, follow the link here." That way there is no confusion; however, I do not necessarily feel that an entirely new Guide would be required.
Okay, so let me ask it like this:
What if it's listed
(example: elements)
Official content
Unofficial content (clearly listed as such)
This way it's not connected to the other content, it's clearly listed, and it's not disjointed from the other sections.
Hehe, yeah precisely. Though if you write something where everything would be reasonably labeled purple (better than the usual blue "must have") in a guide, that actually probably means it's significant power creep and also constrains builds into using precisely that content, thus lowering options. I try to aim for mostly green ("this is a good option if you have space for it") on my personal ratings to keep options open, with the knowledge that of course it'll need to be the case for some things to be orange ("situational") to cover those situations and some things that are sort of the flagstones of an element will be blue+.I've been trying to keep around green since my design goals are 20% orange, 60% green, 15% blue, 5% purple. Really, one or two options being purple would be as far as I'd go, and even that's stretching it. Like as you can see, there's not a lot of purple in the guide which I consider a credit to you as a designer, really only Wings of Air hits that for me.
I'm also aware that there needs to be some orange for both theme and balance, that things can't all be great. Situation utility is as important as general versatility. I think most people assume an orange option is bad, when that's really not the case, it's just more specialized for the most part.
Green should be the core, while blue the standouts, and very rarely a purple option. I myself guide the purple option heavily, and don't just go throwing it around.
Yeah I think we're looking at a similar thought process, and I agree with you on that; it's interesting though that many of the first player reactions to a book with lots of "purple" (before there's enough time to see how it affects the game) is usually "Wow this book is really well-designed! That must have taken lots of effort." It takes little effort to write something that's purple. Consistently green to keep open build options is hard.
Faelyn wrote:
If you keep it all in one Guide, I would personally like to see it have its own section within the Guide as opposed to integrating it into the other sections. Within each section you could put a footnote, something along the lines "For additional 3pp options, follow the link here." That way there is no confusion; however, I do not necessarily feel that an entirely new Guide would be required.
Okay, so let me ask it like this:
What if it's listed
Section heading (example: elements)
Official contentUnofficial content (clearly listed as such)
This way it's not connected to the other content, it's clearly listed, and it's not disjointed from the other sections.
I think that would be just fine. That way you can keep it within the heading, but still have its own section. I think that would be a good way to handle it.
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I think that would be just fine. That way you can keep it within the heading, but still have its own section. I think that would be a good way to handle it.Faelyn wrote:
If you keep it all in one Guide, I would personally like to see it have its own section within the Guide as opposed to integrating it into the other sections. Within each section you could put a footnote, something along the lines "For additional 3pp options, follow the link here." That way there is no confusion; however, I do not necessarily feel that an entirely new Guide would be required.
Okay, so let me ask it like this:
What if it's listed
Section heading (example: elements)
Official contentUnofficial content (clearly listed as such)
This way it's not connected to the other content, it's clearly listed, and it's not disjointed from the other sections.
Agreed, looks good.
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Question:
Does Augment Summoning affect the Spark of Life Utility Wild Talent?
Element Universal; Type utility (Sp); Level 5; Burn 0
You breathe a semblance of life into elemental matter, which takes the form of a Medium elemental of any of your elements as if summoned by summon monster IV with a caster level equal to your kineticist level, except the elemental gains the mindless trait. Each round on your turn, you must take a move action to guide the elemental or it collapses back into its component element. By accepting 1 point of burn, you can pour a bit of your own sentience into the elemental, removing the mindless quality and allowing it to persist for 1 round per kineticist level without requiring any further actions. At 12th level, you can choose to form a Large elemental as if by summon monster V; at 14th level, you can choose to form a Huge elemental as if by summon monster VI; at 16th level, you can choose to form a greater elemental as if by summon monster VII; and at 18th level, you can choose to form an elder elemental as if by summon monster VIII.
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Yeah I think we're looking at a similar thought process, and I agree with you on that; it's interesting though that many of the first player reactions to a book with lots of "purple" (before there's enough time to see how it affects the game) is usually "Wow this book is really well-designed! That must have taken lots of effort." It takes little effort to write something that's purple. Consistently green to keep open build options is hard.
Glad to know I'm not too far off base with what I'm working to design. Perhaps if you've got some free time once this is all done, I'll see if you want to review what I've written for the guide, since I've already done that with your official stuff.
Question:
Does Augment Summoning affect the Spark of Life Utility Wild Talent?
Augment Summoning works on the summoner's SLA, so I assume it'd work on this too.