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I was looking over the Pyro guide linked in yours, N.Jolly, and did a quick check and saw that Kinetic Whip doesn't give 15ft reach. Not worth that much burn now.
No, but you have more reach when you combine it with Kinetic Form. It's value isn't the reach, but the fact that it extends past your turn so you can make AoOs.
Would the elementals created by a kineticist be able be created in an area that blocks extra dimensional travel?
yes I believe
If I'm invisible and only activate singularity in empty squares, can I basically stay invisible as long as I want even if enemies enter that square after or become affected when the singularity expands?
I would consider casting a singularity blast as a hostile action so I would say no.
If I'm invisible and only activate singularity in empty squares, can I basically stay invisible as long as I want even if enemies enter that square after or become affected when the singularity expands?I would consider casting a singularity blast as a hostile action so I would say no.
i would rule that you would stay invisible until the moment somebody takes damage from it
i would rule that you would stay invisible until the moment somebody takes damage from itIf I'm invisible and only activate singularity in empty squares, can I basically stay invisible as long as I want even if enemies enter that square after or become affected when the singularity expands?I would consider casting a singularity blast as a hostile action so I would say no.
That works too
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I would say you stay invisible unless you created it over a living creature.
If they walk into it after the fact, that's not your fault, nor was it an attack. That's them walking into a hazard.
Hey, doesn't infusion specialization reduce the cost of burn by up to 6 points by level 18? So doesn't that mean you can do a aetheric boost and gravitational boost blast cost possibly free at some point?
Both boosts are composite blasts, not infusions. Infusion Specialization only reduces the cost of infusions in your blast. Composite Specialization reduces your total blast cost with any composite blasts used.
Hey, doesn't infusion specialization reduce the cost of burn by up to 6 points by level 18? So doesn't that mean you can do a aetheric boost and gravitational boost blast cost possibly free at some point?
Only composite specialization applies to the cost of composites, so you would need to use internal buffer and gather power for a free double boosted composite, but you could indeed gather for a double boosted simple blast at level 16 (one level after you unlocked the option).
Wait those are composites?! Does that mean they do the composite damage amount with the alterations listed?
Each of them explains how to calculate its damage. The short answer is: only if you use them on a composite (an option available starting at level 15).
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So while going against better knowledge, I plan on making a Kinetic Chirurgeon (For a different game, loving my Pryo/Vizier.. highly recommended IMO) but I noticed something very important..
While They keep Composite Specilization so you can shoot free composites.. there is still Omnikinesis (Su) and Metakinetic Master (Su)What are you supposed to pick with the latter ability? And Why was Omnikinesis changed to influence the change in any significant way... when the Kineticist loses half the school of infusions?
While Infusion specialization reduced blasting burn.. why was there no equivalent to this archetype? The Mercy on gets one application as well..
Was the above all intended? If Mark or anyone can give some insight that would be much appreciated.
It seems Mark may have missed this one. Or it was ignored.
Not sure if this has been asked before in this thread. Not even sure if this is the right thread to ask it even. But which one do you guys think would be the better choice of basic blast for a 1st-level chaokineticist, gravity or negative?
Afterm going over void and air, aside from their wild talents, they doin't seem very impressive. They seem like good secondary elements, rather than primary elements.
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It really amuses me how much of a hangout thread this has become for the kineticist at all.
Also pardon my dust, adding void/wood.
With void reviewed, initial opinion...isn't great. Void feels like water but with less utility. It feels like a one trick pony with how darkness works, there's a larger amount of rehashed talents than I would like, a lacking elemental defense (something water easily beats it at), and while Negative Blast and Enervating Infusion are like children to me, I'm actually not sure if that's enough to sell the element to me. Gravity Master comes too late to feel like a real tool, the only real 'trick' the class has is darkness infusion + eyes of the void which needs Snake to be genuinely viable to me, and it risk disrupting the party.
Overall, it's strange that this element somehow manages to be exciting and boring at the same time.
Wood's next, knock on it to make sure I can give it more of a nod, although the idea of the seasonal blast do make me smile, so it's got that going for it.
With void reviewed, initial opinion...isn't great. Void feels like water but with less utility. It feels like a one trick pony with how darkness works, there's a larger than I would like number of rehashed talents, a lacking elemental defense (something water easily beats it at), and while Negative Blast and Enervating Infusion are like children to me, I'm actually not sure if that's enough to sell the element to me. Gravity Master comes too late to feel like a real tool, the only real 'trick' the class has is darkness infusion + eyes of the void which needs Snake to be genuinely viable to me, and it risk disrupting the party.
Void made me sad.
I was hoping for a reason to play Kineticist/Shadowdancer, but Chaokineticist end up with a few cool Infusions, and that's it. It's utility almost all suck. Gravity Master is awesome, but there's nothing up to that point. Healing undead, wow, that's purely for Dhampir. No Breath, kinda interesting, but not universally useful. A third flame jet. And Greater Eyes of the Void have the ridiculous prerequisite of Eyes of the Void instead of just Darkvision period.
*huffs and sighs*
Agreed on the void review. Too few toys, too late cool toys, and reflavored toys.
They probably wrote Void and Wood that way so they aren't the overwhelming favorite in comparison to the OA 5 elements. Right now they've got lots and lots of flavor, but neither is the "winner". None of the elements are clear winners, as in, "This is the best/only way to build a Kineticist." They all have a pretty good flavor with a decent-ish (still small) collection of useful abilities that you can mix and match to find a combination that works for you and your team.
Well, at least geotv needing regular eotv means that the element isnt locked in as stronger for darkvision races than the others. Oh look, darkvision races get a free feat with their race if they take this class, because they skip a prerequisite by default! Nah, I get why that works that way.
It's already stronger for darkvision races than others. Basic Chaoskinesis seriously helps with that. Besides which there are other ways besides having a darkvision race to get darkvision.
At this point, it just feels like a tax when you already have a weak set of utility talents. I can accept a tax for good stuff, not for weak sauce.
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They probably wrote Void and Wood that way so they aren't the overwhelming favorite in comparison to the OA 5 elements. Right now they've got lots and lots of flavor, but neither is the "winner". None of the elements are clear winners, as in, "This is the best/only way to build a Kineticist." They all have a pretty good flavor with a decent-ish (still small) collection of useful abilities that you can mix and match to find a combination that works for you and your team.
Void I can give, I don't HATE void, I want to like it more, but it's lacking diversity in build. A lot of the OA elements are too, but they have more paths then void has, and that's all little depressing though.
Wood though...oh boy, freaking wood...It's funny, everyone was talking about void so I figured it'd be the 'cool' one and wood would be the 'dependable' one like water. I was wrong.
Infusions
Everything it gets that's good is a retread of earth to the point where you might as well call it "Earth's crappy sibling." Seriously, the amount of copy and paste for the infusion section was painful, and I was really hoping for things from wood. The few unique infusions from wood are trash based on poison effects which by the point the game gives you these abilities are defended against by most major opponents like undead/constructs/most outsides/PLANTS (which the class wants us to deal with a lot) and others. I didn't think I could be THIS underwhelmed, but here we are. I seriously consider Toxic Infusion an insult to the rest of the class's balance. If it was nauseated, fine, take them out for a round, but sickened? The hell?
Wild Talents
I almost fell asleep reviewing these, no joke. It's again 'Earth lite' in the fact that it and earth are the only 'ground bound' elements (even water can kind of traverse the sky), but everything wood gets is so deeply entrenched in being in a forest that it makes you wonder if it was ever meant to leave one. Seriously, whereas infusions were boring since there was nothing new, wild talents were boring because everything new was just too specific. Nothing there felt like you could use it in most APs (maybe kingmaker?) or most situations, just in the forest. Nothing unique from the class broke a green rating, and some of those were just barely green.
If you disagree with me on either element, I'm totally up for being convinced otherwise, but to me void is something that could be fun with more investment and page space, while wood is just...dead weight.
EDIT: These were just my abridged thoughts, I could have gone a lot further into it, but just to give an idea of how bored I was, it was hard not to just talk about my favorite moments in Avatar during some of those wild talents.
EDIT: Also after more play, kinetic cover has proven more useful than I expected, bumped to green, pushing infusion on the cusp of orange, need more playtime with it.
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From my Crazy Character Emporium thread:
The Wild Talent Sorter spreadsheet for kineticists has been updated to include new material from Occult Origins.
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From my Crazy Character Emporium thread:
The Wild Talent Sorter spreadsheet for kineticists has been updated to include new material from Occult Origins.
Yo RD do you mind if I/want me to include that in the guide, credited to you obviously?
At least Wood gives us a Composite Blast for Fire that doesn't deal bludgeoning damage?
Yo RD do you mind if I/want me to include that in the guide, credited to you obviously?From my Crazy Character Emporium thread:
The Wild Talent Sorter spreadsheet for kineticists has been updated to include new material from Occult Origins.
That's fine with me, but be sure to credit Talon Stormwarden as well, since he pieced together the original framework. (I mostly just made it pretty, corrected a few errors, then added in the two new elements.)
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That's fine with me, but be sure to credit Talon Stormwarden as well, since he pieced together the original framework. (I mostly just made it pretty, corrected a few errors, then added in the two new elements.)
And added with crediting both of you.
Seriously, wood has just got me bored. I always listen to hype music (Mad World OST, check it out), but I couldn't get a track that got me amped for this.
That's fine with me, but be sure to credit Talon Stormwarden as well, since he pieced together the original framework. (I mostly just made it pretty, corrected a few errors, then added in the two new elements.)And added with crediting both of you.
Seriously, wood has just got me bored. I always listen to hype music (Mad World OST, check it out), but I couldn't get a track that got me amped for this.
Sounds like it is a bit...
Wooden.
*crickets chirping*
Ya know, wooded like trees and wooden like that person Natalie Portman was supposed to be with in Star Wars.
I looked over Wood and came to much the same conclusion but I held out hoping that others would see hidden gems where I could not. Maybe it'll see some love in the future but I don't really think so. Oh well, my poor Ghoran Kineticist will just have to go Earth/Water :(
They probably wrote Void and Wood that way so they aren't the overwhelming favorite in comparison to the OA 5 elements. Right now they've got lots and lots of flavor, but neither is the "winner". None of the elements are clear winners, as in, "This is the best/only way to build a Kineticist." They all have a pretty good flavor with a decent-ish (still small) collection of useful abilities that you can mix and match to find a combination that works for you and your team.
I would say that the limited amount of pages in Occult Origins is the reason why Void and Wood aren't as "complete" as the elements in OA. Even then, the Kineticist got 4 pages, while the other classes got only 2 :P
Not sure where I read it, but, according to Mark Seifter, singularity and pulling infusion can be combined to make a pulling singularity that pulls enemies into it instead of towards you as the pulling infusion says in its description. Basically an actual sort of singularity/black hole. Flavorful, but not sure how useful or powerful. Still, I thought I should mention it. :-)
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Not sure where I read it, but, according to Mark Seifter, singularity and pulling infusion can be combined to make a pulling singularity that pulls enemies into it instead of towards you as the pulling infusion says in its description. Basically an actual sort of singularity/black hole. Flavorful, but not sure how useful or powerful. Still, I thought I should mention it. :-)
Sometimes I wonder if Mark angered an editor or if it's some kind of new guy hazing with how often we're hearing about things he wanted included or clarified aren't. The fact that there's an FAQ section in my guide with actual FAQ rather than my inane ramblings is quite depressing. I think in this situation, I'd bump singularity a step, but that's only 5 feet, and the area of singularity is enough that people can walk away from it before being hit a second/third time. Can it force a tactically unsound movement? Probably. Will it often? Probably not. Personally I want to like singularity more, but for flavor, it should have had the pulling effect innately rather than needing another ability to augment it into a more worthwhile blast, especially with the save and reduced damage attached to it.
I would say that the limited amount of pages in Occult Origins is the reason why Void and Wood aren't as "complete" as the elements in OA. Even then, the Kineticist got 4 pages, while the other classes got only 2 :P
The problem is that there was too much ambition in those 4 pages. There shouldn't have been two elements, full stop. There should have been void, and some feats, because as I've said before, this class NEEDS more/better feats.
Void feels like an idea dump more than an element, and while I like some of the ideas in it, that's what it seems to be. Negative Energy and Gravity are odd choices to combine. Nothing too strange, but odd enough where it feels like there were ideas for both, but neither had enough to make a full element, thus being pushed together into Void.
The biggest problem with void is that it's best ability until the later levels, the darkness synergy, mirror's fire's big thing too much, which is seeing through smoke/creating smoke. I have ideas for it myself, but that's not what I'm talking about here. It has some fun ideas, but it also has a lot of rehashes. Limited space, I know. But the things that I did like from it I really liked, and I don't feel like the negative energy or gravity attacks got nearly enough attention.
Wood should have been scrapped, pure and simple.
I hope we see void expanded on, although wood can take a dirt nap for all I care.
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I feel like you're right about wood not having enough useful/new/exciting info. But I feel obligated in defense of Mark that several people *begged* for a wood element, because it's part of certain elemental charts. Was there enough power to make wood useful? Probably not. Was there enough demand to make it a solid choice to try? Definitely. Has anyone here mentioned or thought of using all the kineticists extra gold and feats to take craft wondrous and make a metric crap ton of feather tokens of "bam! I haz a tree!"? Probably not.
I feel like the wood kineticist was ultimately a flop, but one many people asked for and which could in some cases be used more outside the forest than people give it credit for. If you really, really wanted to make wood viable, I feel it's possible. Not top tier, perhaps not even as good as any of the other elements ever, but useable. You just have to kind of make a forest around you first.
I know I'm being hard on it, and to try and work with the idea of wood, I'm doing a bit of writing myself, seeing if I can hammer out something that can help the element out that I plan on putting out later. It's almost more of a design challenge to myself to see if I can do any better, because if I can't, I can't blame Mark, all I can do is tell people to avoid it. There's a few elements that weren't touched that I'm working on now, seeing if I can make something fun out of them.
Wood is viable...ish. I'd seriously just go elemental annihilator with it and never look back, losing the painful wild talents and just making a fun beatstick.
Part of it is coming out in a soft cover which wasn't going to get the most attention, but it's a guide and in a pretty big way just my opinions here, so I'm going to do my best to guide others.
What's so bad about wood exactly? It seems totally viable to me. The Prince of Flowers could easily wreck all sorts of encounters.
Not sure where I read it, but, according to Mark Seifter, singularity and pulling infusion can be combined to make a pulling singularity that pulls enemies into it instead of towards you as the pulling infusion says in its description. Basically an actual sort of singularity/black hole. Flavorful, but not sure how useful or powerful. Still, I thought I should mention it. :-)
I love it personally. There is nothing quite so satisfying as setting up a negative energy wall where the enemy stands, then using a singularity infusion to hurt them a second time while pulling them out of the wall, then using a pushing blast to knock them back into both area of effects, hurting them a third, fourth, and possibly fifth time.
The main issue I had with Void is the lack of synergy between physical and energy blasts between other elements. You are either an energy blast focused kineticist or a physical blast focused kineticist unless you go straight Void. This in relation to the Void composite blasts... Should have made that clear earlier.
I thought it would be interesting to mix Aether and Void to have a physical and energy blast until I notice there's no decent composite blast. The utility of those two together would be nice... Just not the offense.
I feel like you're right about wood not having enough useful/new/exciting info. But I feel obligated in defense of Mark that several people *begged* for a wood element, because it's part of certain elemental charts. Was there enough power to make wood useful? Probably not. Was there enough demand to make it a solid choice to try? Definitely. Has anyone here mentioned or thought of using all the kineticists extra gold and feats to take craft wondrous and make a metric crap ton of feather tokens of "bam! I haz a tree!"? Probably not.
I feel like the wood kineticist was ultimately a flop, but one many people asked for and which could in some cases be used more outside the forest than people give it credit for. If you really, really wanted to make wood viable, I feel it's possible. Not top tier, perhaps not even as good as any of the other elements ever, but useable. You just have to kind of make a forest around you first.
It's worth noting that the outline for this book originally expected both the void and the wood element to fit on one spread (2 pages!). I was the freelancer here, not acting as a designer, so that meant I needed to meet the outline, rather than being the one who created or decided it. As the freelancer, I had a little more leverage than a normal freelancer does since I made the class, and Owen is awesome, so when I told him that it was physically impossible to do that, he advocated on my behalf up the chain and got it up to 4 pages (but it was a close call), rather than just be told "make do with 2 for both elements or we'll ask another freelancer to do it". I agree that for it to be closer to a standard element, I needed two spreads (4 pages) for each one, but that was never going to happen.
And I do agree that RD's Prince of Flowers is a pretty cool phytokineticist.
I don't know if I agree with the yellow rating for pushing and bowling infusions. I think they should at least be dual colored yellow/green because situationally they can be rather good if used in conjunction with aoe/area control infusions like deadly earth, wall, singularity or others. You can use push to get them into or through the areas for more damage and when combined with snake you can push in any direction you want. You can use bowling to trip foes that are entangled, grappled or still inside the area effects for even more CC. If they are entangled and/or grappled then they have reduced stats and more likely to keep failing the checks.
Yes they are 'low power' infusions but you get them at early levels. The fact that they're super cheap means that at mid/late game you could always tack on one on a blast for free if it doesn't already have a substance infusion for an added possible bonus effect. And with pushing you can increase the push distance with more burn which can still be reduced to free if you have spare burn reduction.
The main issue I had with Void is the lack of synergy between physical and energy blasts between other elements. You are either an energy blast focused kineticist or a physical blast focused kineticist unless you go straight Void. This in relation to the Void composite blasts... Should have made that clear earlier.
I thought it would be interesting to mix Aether and Void to have a physical and energy blast until I notice there's no decent composite blast. The utility of those two together would be nice... Just not the offense.
On the flipside, I personally do like that Void has so many composites. A pure Void does get two composite blasts they can mix together. While the usage of Gravitic Boost is limited, at level 15 that starts to look a lot nicer.
Ok Meant void/wood, but yeah, by comparison those 2 elements fell short of the strong utility and strong offense elements. Air still feels like the ultimate ranged attacker. Also the defensive talents seemed kinda meh when compared to the stonger defensive talents, Earth/Water. So while I was hoping for void to be more like the kinetisist equivalent of a Starsoul Sorcerer or a Heavens Oracle, it seems to have fallen rather short. Wood was never that impressive, though the ability to use feather tokens to pop out automated siege enginges is interesting at the very least, and in adventure paths that tend to stay in forested or at least wilderness areas, it has a good amount of utility. The problem is wood is only good utility wise in circumstances that other strong utility elements would be just as good if not better.
You guys are discounting both elements WAY too quickly. You need to use your imaginations more!
The main issue I had with Void is the lack of synergy...
You gotta' look for synergy to find it.
I think void would make a great secondary element to earth, for example. The negative energy blast nicely supplements the physical earth blasts giving you the option of making touch attacks when you couldn't before. The No Breath wild talent also combines nicely with Earth Glide and Tremorsense, allowing you to hide or wait in ambush forever.
The problem is wood is only good utility wise in circumstances that other strong utility elements would be just as good if not better.
Combining air with wood in order to be able to fly over a forest and see through the canopy like it's not even there is freaking AMAZING!
Never again will the party have to worry about bandits or ambushes in half the terrain types out there. Raptors in tall grass, sahuagin in seaweed, bandits in the trees...none will get by you unannounced!
Even straight up wood with a fly spell from a potion or ally can make a crazy awesome scout in all kinds of situations--to say nothing of your plant minions adding extra eyes on the ground. Once you spot enemies, you can send wave after wave of plant minions to take care of them without ever having to put yourself or your party members at risk.
The main issue I had with Void is the lack of synergy...You gotta' look for synergy to find it.
I think void would make a great secondary element to earth, for example. The negative energy blast nicely supplements the physical earth blasts giving you the option of making touch attacks when you couldn't before. The No Breath wild talent also combines nicely with Earth Glide and Tremorsense, allowing you to hide or wait in ambush forever.
The utilities are great with Void, but again, you don't get any composite blasts with that combo. The physical composite only works with Gravity blast and any other physical blast. None of the earth composite blasts work with the Void energy blast. Therefore... Void requires you to solo Void for a physical and energy blast combo.
Straight Void is pretty awesome, if you like the niche idea, which I do. Being able to liter the field with inpenetrable darkness that you can see through is awesome.
Wood... I haven't really looked at it all the much, because I'm just not all that interested in it to be honest. It feels less Occult and more elemental and to me, bland.
I think void would make a great secondary element to earth, for example. The negative energy blast nicely supplements the physical earth blasts giving you the option of making touch attacks when you couldn't before. The No Breath wild talent also combines nicely with Earth Glide and Tremorsense, allowing you to hide or wait in ambush forever.
I think Air Shroud is a better use for "forever in rock" because then you get access to better and earlier flight as well as a better composite in sandstorm blast.
I would say that the limited amount of pages in Occult Origins is the reason why Void and Wood aren't as "complete" as the elements in OA. Even then, the Kineticist got 4 pages, while the other classes got only 2 :PThe problem is that there was too much ambition in those 4 pages. There shouldn't have been two elements, full stop. There should have been void, and some feats, because as I've said before, this class NEEDS more/better feats.
More feats? Like which ones?
Void feels like an idea dump more than an element, and while I like some of the ideas in it, that's what it seems to be. Negative Energy and Gravity are odd choices to combine. Nothing too strange, but odd enough where it feels like there were ideas for both, but neither had enough to make a full element, thus being pushed together into Void.
1) Void has been a primary element in oriental mythology.
2) A void is often seen as a black hole, which is a gravitational force, not to mention that Darkness is often associated to negative energy3) Both negative and positive energies are viable elements for a Kineticist to wield.
Wood should have been scrapped, pure and simple.
I hope we see void expanded on, although wood can take a dirt nap for all I care.
Wood, like metal, is a primary element. Dude, we even have magic schools for both metal and wood for wizards.
I could have seen it as an alternate energy for Earth, but they did separate it anyway. Not complaining though.