Mastering the Elements: N. Jolly's guide to the Pathfinder Kineticist


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Cao Phen wrote:

Question:

Does Augment Summoning affect the Spark of Life Utility Wild Talent?

Spark of Life wrote:

Element Universal; Type utility (Sp); Level 5; Burn 0

You breathe a semblance of life into elemental matter, which takes the form of a Medium elemental of any of your elements as if summoned by summon monster IV with a caster level equal to your kineticist level, except the elemental gains the mindless trait. Each round on your turn, you must take a move action to guide the elemental or it collapses back into its component element. By accepting 1 point of burn, you can pour a bit of your own sentience into the elemental, removing the mindless quality and allowing it to persist for 1 round per kineticist level without requiring any further actions. At 12th level, you can choose to form a Large elemental as if by summon monster V; at 14th level, you can choose to form a Huge elemental as if by summon monster VI; at 16th level, you can choose to form a greater elemental as if by summon monster VII; and at 18th level, you can choose to form an elder elemental as if by summon monster VIII.

The feat doesn't mention having to cast the spells etc. Just if you do happen to summon creatures they are "better". Sadly the prereq is probably completely useless to you.


Yeah, I could definitely see that working; however, I do not see the prerequisite feats being worth that tiny little extra bump at all.

Silver Crusade

Faelyn wrote:
Yeah, I could definitely see that working; however, I do not see the prerequisite feats being worth that tiny little extra bump at all.

Yeah, kineticist make poor summoners. They're behind the curve on summon spells, require burn to make work, and lack the variety of summon creatures that more dedicated summoners receive.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

They do have the advantage of being a standard action to summon and you can have two out at a time, without burn. Furthermore, repositioning is really easy within range as rather than maintain one you can just resummon it.

My main issue was that by making them mindless they cannot benefit from certain buffs but grab a couple of allying weapons and just throw the bonus on the monsters and you can start working on your continuous army.

Make sure that you grab a variety of elements, Earth/Air being my favorite combo for this though Bestiary 5 may add some options to the list. Consider Celerity from Air as well, it will cost you a burn to keep one active then just Haste them every round.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Aether elementals are kind of interesting, since they seem designed to be ranged elementals, unlike the others. Also invisible minions can be handy.


The actual summoning bit, I think is very interesting. I just don't see the benefit of burning two feats to give subpar summons a little boost to the strength and constitution unless you only plan on summoning all the time. Otherwise, kineticists literally gain nothing from Spell Focus: Conjuration... That is an utterly wasted feat for this class.

Scarab Sages

Does a Kineticist's Diadem gives extra dice to roll for Kinetic Healer? If so, since it states that physical blasts converts the bonus dice from d6 to d8, does it also do that for the Kinetic Healer?


Cao Phen wrote:
Does a Kineticist's Diadem gives extra dice to roll for Kinetic Healer? If so, since it states that physical blasts converts the bonus dice from d6 to d8, does it also do that for the Kinetic Healer?

Mark says a diadem should work with kinetic healer.

And yea, use d8's if you got a physical basic kinetic blast like water or telekinetic.


A related question about the extra dice from the Diadem: does metakinesis like empower effect it? I can honestly see reading the text as increasing base damage or just the final damage.


The same link I put up earlier has him saying "you couldn't empower it, since that's a different ability." Metakinesis only works for actual blasting for attacking.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

But could you emporwer the bonus dice from the diadem during a conventional blast?


Oh that's what Thaago meant.

Hmm that's tough. On one hand the extra dice doesn't get multiplied on a critical as a regular bonus modifier would which would have gotten empowered along with the base blast dice. While on the other hand it does modify a simple blast and would even count for Kinetic Healer.

For now I'd just be running it as a No for my own kineticist for conservative reasons, but hope it gets clarified soon.


I think I agree in principal, but it always annoys me to have to complicate the stat line on my sheets. I'm going to kick this over to the 'ask Mark' thread and hope he weighs in. :)

I'm puzzled as to why it doesn't get doubled on critical hits. Seems an awful lot of extra bookkeeping for a 5% (doubled with improved critical) chance of 1d8 extra damage...

Silver Crusade

If Mark's still checking up on this thread, I actually have a bit of a question about infusions, since they all seem to have slightly different verbiage for when they active. Can the interaction of the following phrases be clarified?

-Whenever a blast hits a foe and penetrates its spell resistance/deals damage

So does this need a direct hit to trigger, or does it simply have to break SR/deal damage, allowing it to be used with things like explosion and such? I just want to make sure for something I'm working on, please let me know if this question's already been answered.


In your guide, you note that Envervating Infusion would work great with Flurry of Blasts due to multiple applications; however, the text states that the target makes only a single save, with a penalty based on how many times they were hit.

Doesn't this suggest that they would only get affected once?

Silver Crusade

Sycondaman wrote:

In your guide, you note that Envervating Infusion would work great with Flurry of Blasts due to multiple applications; however, the text states that the target makes only a single save, with a penalty based on how many times they were hit.

Doesn't this suggest that they would only get affected once?

Looking through the original list of infusions, there weren't any that actually COULD stack (can't double entangle), which makes Envenerating Infusion special in that respect.

I rated it on my interpretation of the ability, but if we get this clarified and I was wrong, I'll change the infusion's rating accordingly. I really hope I'm right since this infusion loses a lot of value if it can't be applied multiple times.

Designer

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N. Jolly wrote:

If Mark's still checking up on this thread, I actually have a bit of a question about infusions, since they all seem to have slightly different verbiage for when they active. Can the interaction of the following phrases be clarified?

-Whenever a blast hits a foe and penetrates its spell resistance/deals damage

So does this need a direct hit to trigger, or does it simply have to break SR/deal damage, allowing it to be used with things like explosion and such? I just want to make sure for something I'm working on, please let me know if this question's already been answered.

Chilling just says "deals damage," so it works fine no matter how you read it. Burning, Thundering, and the ones with "hits a foe and penetrates SR" with no need to deal damage should have a clause in there about Reflex saves to make it perfectly clear. I'd been running it that evasion blocked those effects but otherwise they applied on a failed or succeeded Reflex save, but I'm going to admit that this isn't clear from the text.

Silver Crusade

Mark Seifter wrote:
Chilling just says "deals damage," so it works fine no matter how you read it. Burning, Thundering, and the ones with "hits a foe and penetrates SR" with no need to deal damage should have a clause in there about Reflex saves to make it perfectly clear. I'd been running it that evasion blocked those effects but otherwise they applied on a failed or succeeded Reflex save, but I'm going to admit that this isn't clear from the text.

Okay, so there's no need for a direct attack (so said substance infusions work on all targets that were damaged/SR penetrated in say a cloud or wall infusion) to be made for "Whenever a blast hits a foe and penetrates/deals damage" infusions? That's basically how I was thinking it worked, I just like being certain for both my own designs as well as the guide's sake. Thanks for the answer!

EDIT: BTWay, what's your thoughts on the envenerating infusion issue that was just brought up? Does Flurry of Blast need updated text due to this?


Just a note: You've said 'feign' instead of 'feint' in the guide in two different parts of the feats section (Under Improved/Greater Feint, and Moonlight Stalker/Feint/Master).


N. Jolly wrote:
I just like being certain for both my own designs as well as the guide's sake. Thanks for the answer!

Speaking of, he has some great ideas! Including a Geokineticist one I'm wishing I had writen first.

*promotes promotes*


N. Jolly wrote:
Sycondaman wrote:

In your guide, you note that Envervating Infusion would work great with Flurry of Blasts due to multiple applications; however, the text states that the target makes only a single save, with a penalty based on how many times they were hit.

Doesn't this suggest that they would only get affected once?

Looking through the original list of infusions, there weren't any that actually COULD stack (can't double entangle), which makes Envenerating Infusion special in that respect.

I rated it on my interpretation of the ability, but if we get this clarified and I was wrong, I'll change the infusion's rating accordingly. I really hope I'm right since this infusion loses a lot of value if it can't be applied multiple times.

I agree. Flurry of Blasts makes Enervating a good choice, but without it it's terrible.

Mark, any word on this? Would Flurry of Blasts apply the penalty from Enervating Infusion multiple times?

Silver Crusade

Sycondaman wrote:

I agree. Flurry of Blasts makes Enervating a good choice, but without it it's terrible.

Mark, any word on this? Would Flurry of Blasts apply the penalty from Enervating Infusion multiple times?

It's interesting to think that with this, presumably you're getting 3/4/5 strikes, and with each strike, that's increasing the DC by 1 for each hit (which are almost guaranteed by using an energy blast), that's one save at a -3/-4/-5 for 3/4/5 negative levels.

I mean I did say it was borderline purple (needs flurry to work, buffed by haste), but this is one intense combo if it works.


N. Jolly wrote:
Sycondaman wrote:

I agree. Flurry of Blasts makes Enervating a good choice, but without it it's terrible.

Mark, any word on this? Would Flurry of Blasts apply the penalty from Enervating Infusion multiple times?

It's interesting to think that with this, presumably you're getting 3/4/5 strikes, and with each strike, that's increasing the DC by 1 for each hit (which are almost guaranteed by using an energy blast), that's one save at a -3/-4/-5 for 3/4/5 negative levels.

I mean I did say it was borderline purple (needs flurry to work, buffed by haste), but this is one intense combo if it works.

Agreed, but the single saving throw is what makes me think it doesn't work that way. In my mind though I think I would still find it disappointing because it compares so unfavorably to Enervation. Enervation is a lower level ability for classes that get it and doesn't allow a saving throw.

Granted, Kineticists can do it "at will" but the tradeoff is harsh.


Sphynx wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:
N. Jolly wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:


Also I think your understanding of Extra Wild Talent is incorrect. At lv7 the highest level wild talent you can use is lv3, to two lower than that is a lv1 still. I think you're reading it as you can take anything that you could qualify for if YOUR level was 2 lower, but it's lowering the spell level by two. meaning at lv9(8) you could get a lv2 power as you qualify for lv4 powers.
Also wow, that's again much worse. That's...wow...that's...why?
Yeah, that feat does seem SUPER lame now. When I first read it I thought as you did that it dropped my level by two, but upon closer look I found that it's often a waste. It puts everything at "secondary element track." I guess this is their way to stop doing extra ___ feats but still give us one to stop the complaints.

Not to be forgetting... the main purpose of the Extra Wild Talent feat is so that you can catchup a bit in your 2nd element. Example... Aether to Air (since it's easiest to speak from experience). 8th level you obviously still want to get either Self-TK or Invisibility (whichever one you didn't grab at 6th level). So, at 9th level you can grab the Extra Wild Talent to get Air Cushion. Then at 10th level you can get Wings of Air (replace Self-TK) as well as Celerity. It's not intended to give you more powers so much as make sure you got what you were missing.

It has its uses, but it's not really suppose to give you more than you'd have otherwise.

Sorry to dredge up a really old post, but I'm doing this exact thing right now and have a question. Instead of going this route to get Wings of Air at 10th level, do you see any downsides to variant-multiclassing wizard with the Air school?

I've seen it said a few times that kineticists don't need that many feats, and the 1st level air power gives the equivalent of Air Cushion and Wings of Air, plus self-only Levitate to boot. Plus, you get a familiar (which I would otherwise be using Eldritch Heritage to get). It feels like I'm kind of coming out equal or even possibly ahead with regards to getting those, but I want to make sure I'm not missing any obvious problems.

Pros to VMC-wizard:
Familiar;
Feather fall/Levitate/Fly;
Not restricted to Air for my expanded element yet still getting normal flight;
Requires 1 fewer feat by 10th level to get these same abilities than I would normally require (3rd and 7th level feats, vs. Skill Focus + Eldritch heritage (Arcane) + Extra Wild Talent (Air Cushion));
The utility talent that would've been taken by Wings of Air is freed up for something else

Cons:
The 11th-level VMC ability is underwhelming (although I'll probably take prestidigitation for the fun of it);
???

Designer

N. Jolly wrote:
Sycondaman wrote:

I agree. Flurry of Blasts makes Enervating a good choice, but without it it's terrible.

Mark, any word on this? Would Flurry of Blasts apply the penalty from Enervating Infusion multiple times?

It's interesting to think that with this, presumably you're getting 3/4/5 strikes, and with each strike, that's increasing the DC by 1 for each hit (which are almost guaranteed by using an energy blast), that's one save at a -3/-4/-5 for 3/4/5 negative levels.

I mean I did say it was borderline purple (needs flurry to work, buffed by haste), but this is one intense combo if it works.

It's definitely nice to stick them with a massive penalty on the save, though it's one save against the effect, so only one application; the other alternative is to trade quality for quantity of saves and kinetic blade full attack with enervating. If you get lucky on some of the early saves, they'll suffer the penalty from negative level(s) on the later ones too!


If you really want to be rude, you can either go aoe/flurry to make multiple people save (then flurry for one nearly guaranteed failed save each round on the bbeg) or you can use enervating with a kinetic fist monk type character. It gets really nasty when you're hitting 6 and 7 times a round with a chance for negative levels every single time. Once they fail the first two or so, there's generally a 3 turn max on their lifespan. Improved twf, some AoO granters... this can get really rude really quick, especially for a gestalt unmonk.

Silver Crusade

Shiroi wrote:
If you really want to be rude, you can either go aoe/flurry to make multiple people save (then flurry for one nearly guaranteed failed save each round on the bbeg) or you can use enervating with a kinetic fist monk type character. It gets really nasty when you're hitting 6 and 7 times a round with a chance for negative levels every single time. Once they fail the first two or so, there's generally a 3 turn max on their lifespan. Improved twf, some AoO granters... this can get really rude really quick, especially for a gestalt unmonk.

Yeah, I was going to drop Evenerating Infusion down to (high) orange, but I think the synergy with kinetic blade/fist is enough to keep it at least green. Because of that, Void stays green on offense. Note that none of the material I will be adding will change the official rankings of each element, those will state independent of 3rd party influence. I will probably talk to whomever reviews my material to see if they want to 'rerank' older elements with newer inclusions, or just rate each new option instead, although I do hope to have the new elements reviewed as the old ones have been.

Scarab Sages

With the Weapon Master's Handbook, we have another option for flight that is worth mentioning for any non-air kineticist. Flight Mastery, an magic item master feat will allow anyone with a +6 base fort save, 3 ranks of UMD, and a stat belt to cast flight.

A single class kineticist can qualify at 8th level. It's especially good for annihilators who give up utility talents.

Flight Mastery:

Flight Mastery (Item Mastery)
You can coax the magic of flight from transmutation
magic items.
Prerequisites: Use Magic Device 3 ranks, base Fortitude
save bonus +6.
Benefit: You can cause an item that has a transmutation
spell of 2nd level or higher listed in its construction
requirements to cast fly. If the item is a suit of armor you
are wearing, you can use the item’s enhancement bonus
in place of your Dexterity modifier on Fly skill checks
while the spell lasts. You can use this feat once per day,
plus an additional time per day at base Fortitude save
bonus +9 and +12.


Even with "extra" feats for utility, I don't know that getting flight once per day at 8th is really worth a feat really. You don't get the second use until 14th and the third at 20. At the first use, you would almost be better off buying a few potions or wand of fly for when it is needed (and you would have access to it faster).

As an option I'm not sure it would rank above green (if that).


Imbicatus wrote:

With the Weapon Master's Handbook, we have another option for flight that is worth mentioning for any non-air kineticist. Flight Mastery, an magic item master feat will allow anyone with a +6 base fort save, 3 ranks of UMD, and a stat belt to cast flight.

A single class kineticist can qualify at 8th level. It's especially good for annihilators who give up utility talents.

** spoiler omitted **

VMC Wizard (Air) is a better choice than super limited access to flight.


Yeah and if that's a CL 1 fly, it's really not a great move. Neat, an option for pure melee who doesn't like disposables, multiclassing, or party members... which is basically nobody I know of in most games.5/7 elements (fire/water/tele/void/air) get something to get them off the ground eventually. I feel like this is a really subpar choice even for the other two, which is sad. If they'd made it a umd check move action each round to maintain, and you fall if you fail the check (move with the spell as part of that check), then we'd be talking. Or even character rounds per day, so you could use it for short bursts in several fights or obstacles. But a single cast of cl 1 fly will fix one problem per day, and a wand would eliminate the restriction per day and be more useful and cost effective than spending a feat.

Sad day.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Shiroi wrote:

Yeah and if that's a CL 1 fly, it's really not a great move. Neat, an option for pure melee who doesn't like disposables, multiclassing, or party members... which is basically nobody I know of in most games.5/7 elements (fire/water/tele/void/air) get something to get them off the ground eventually. I feel like this is a really subpar choice even for the other two, which is sad. If they'd made it a umd check move action each round to maintain, and you fall if you fail the check (move with the spell as part of that check), then we'd be talking. Or even character rounds per day, so you could use it for short bursts in several fights or obstacles. But a single cast of cl 1 fly will fix one problem per day, and a wand would eliminate the restriction per day and be more useful and cost effective than spending a feat.

Sad day.

Caster level is equal to your BAB for item mastery feats, so it's not caster level 1, at the least. Interestingly, the DCs are based off of Constitution for item mastery feats, so I've certainly pondered they might be of use to some kineticists despite their 3/4 BAB, but kineticists do get plenty of tricks of their own, so I suppose it depends...haven't put much deep thought into it yet, at any rate. Sadly, not likely to get a chance to play a kineticist anytime soon.


Hmmm... I need to look into this book.
I also noticed I was saying cl 1, when that's not hardly the minimum caster level for fly. Regardless, not the best option for us. Definitely a neat trick for a magic savvy unmonk or barbarian. I'd say for a fighter too but between fighters not getting nice things and not being worth it even if they did... /derail

I don't feel like vmc wizard is really worth it for fly either though. Yeah we don't need the feats but what do you really get that we can use for 5 feats? Fly. That's most of your benefit right there, and the archetype that gives up utility powers needs more feats than normal kineticist anyways, so it feels awkward that most of the people that route would help at all also sacrifice the most to take it.

Silver Crusade

Skylancer4 wrote:

Even with "extra" feats for utility, I don't know that getting flight once per day at 8th is really worth a feat really. You don't get the second use until 14th and the third at 20. At the first use, you would almost be better off buying a few potions or wand of fly for when it is needed (and you would have access to it faster).

As an option I'm not sure it would rank above green (if that).

With everything I know about it, if I were to put this into the guide (not likely), it'd be orange. A feat for a once a day flight isn't exactly earth breaking, especially at 8th level. By that point, you're getting closer to other avenues of flight that are less restrictive. The wait for the second use of it is just painful and by that point you almost certainly have a better option for flight or pseudo-flight.


Heck, just buy a Broom of Flying. it's more flexible in its use and it costs gp instead of a feat.


how does one submit their own questions on this site, i can not figure it out for the life of me

Silver Crusade

Guildegreil wrote:

how does one submit their own questions on this site, i can not figure it out for the life of me

What do you mean submit questions? Do you mean to like a Dev? Mark has his own AMA thread in the Off Topic section of the boards (as do I), although if you want to just ask something about the guide to me, the author, I'm here if you just post the question.


Or do you mean when looking at the advice section of the site, use the new post button near the top right?


So, N Jolly, what is your opinion on the Caligni (from Bestiary 5, if you've seen it yet) both as a race in general and for a kineticist?

I'm thinking of putting together either a Dwarven geokineticist or a Caligni chaokineticist for an upcoming Emerald Spire game. Thoughts?


An aetherkineticist can't pick up creatures with basic tk or tk haul at all, right? Mage hand specifies objects, and I don't see any abilities that circumvent that. Foe throw is great for enemies, but not the best way to help your friends get across obstacles. I'm considering getting a handy haversack and stuffing a carpet into it so I can carry folks around on that if I need to.

I'm trying to come up with as many creative uses for my utility powers as I can before my campaign starts (we'll be 5th level). At will telekinesis is awesome, but I'm starting to discover it's not as effortlessly and infinitely useful as Jean Grey had led me to believe. It would really help if there was some way to quicken utility talents, or even better to use them as immediate actions. Or to reduce the action required to concentrate on them. I mean, obviously not at 5th level, but at all.

Silver Crusade

Xelaaredn wrote:

So, N Jolly, what is your opinion on the Caligni (from Bestiary 5, if you've seen it yet) both as a race in general and for a kineticist?

I'm thinking of putting together either a Dwarven geokineticist or a Caligni chaokineticist for an upcoming Emerald Spire game. Thoughts?

Since it hasn't hit the PFSRD, I can't give an opinion on it yet, although as long as it's +Con or Dex without negging the other, it should be okay enough.

wynterknight wrote:

An aetherkineticist can't pick up creatures with basic tk or tk haul at all, right? Mage hand specifies objects, and I don't see any abilities that circumvent that. Foe throw is great for enemies, but not the best way to help your friends get across obstacles. I'm considering getting a handy haversack and stuffing a carpet into it so I can carry folks around on that if I need to.

I'm trying to come up with as many creative uses for my utility powers as I can before my campaign starts (we'll be 5th level). At will telekinesis is awesome, but I'm starting to discover it's not as effortlessly and infinitely useful as Jean Grey had led me to believe. It would really help if there was some way to quicken utility talents, or even better to use them as immediate actions. Or to reduce the action required to concentrate on them. I mean, obviously not at 5th level, but at all.

I'm pretty sure the answer to that is no myself since TK Haul states 'object' in the description. I mean I guess technically you could put a person ONTO an object and levitate it, although I think you could only do that with a willing creature.

Personally, I really REALLY like the idea of using Foe Throw with a teammate, maybe it's something I can work on including in my own content.

Also as I have told hundreds of people before, Jean Grey is a dirty liar, never believe anything she does.

As for quickening utility talents, there MIGHT be a way with the 'quicken spell like ability' feat, it's really something I should have included in my guide. Due to how kinetic blast scale, it wouldn't work with them, but for utility wild talents, it does actually have a chance of working since the effective spell level of them doesn't increase. It almost feels like something I could do a primer on in the guide...

And updates on my end, my content is almost done, preliminary noise about it is good, few new elements coming up and a bunch of new wild talents to check out.


wynterknight wrote:

An aetherkineticist can't pick up creatures with basic tk or tk haul at all, right? Mage hand specifies objects, and I don't see any abilities that circumvent that. Foe throw is great for enemies, but not the best way to help your friends get across obstacles. I'm considering getting a handy haversack and stuffing a carpet into it so I can carry folks around on that if I need to.

I'm trying to come up with as many creative uses for my utility powers as I can before my campaign starts (we'll be 5th level). At will telekinesis is awesome, but I'm starting to discover it's not as effortlessly and infinitely useful as Jean Grey had led me to believe. It would really help if there was some way to quicken utility talents, or even better to use them as immediate actions. Or to reduce the action required to concentrate on them. I mean, obviously not at 5th level, but at all.

Yes the object has to be unattended but afaik, they can then get on it after you start your link to it. You can use tk haul to lift a sheet of metal or wood and they can sit/stand on it as you move them across the area. Also, if you accept the burn from tk haul then the duration moves from concentration to per minute which means you don't need to spend a standard to keep it up, just a move to move it.

For usefulness, my party recently acquired a partially collapsed tower and I'm using my tk haul during our current down time to move the required stone and dirt to fix it up. Combined with tk finesse, she can literally do all the work without getting her hands dirty. Literally.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
N. Jolly wrote:
Xelaaredn wrote:

So, N Jolly, what is your opinion on the Caligni (from Bestiary 5, if you've seen it yet) both as a race in general and for a kineticist?

I'm thinking of putting together either a Dwarven geokineticist or a Caligni chaokineticist for an upcoming Emerald Spire game. Thoughts?

Since it hasn't hit the PFSRD, I can't give an opinion on it yet, although as long as it's +Con or Dex without negging the other, it should be okay enough.

Caligni actually have +2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Int, as well as see in darkness. Beyond that, they have light sensitivity...and explode with a bright flash of light if they die. But still leave enough corpse to raise, so.


Yea, moment I saw +2 Con and Dex I realized they were easily natural Kineticists. Especially Chaokineticists. Probably the best ability scores you can get.

Shabti are alright, mostly because they are really strong in general and have a Aasimar style Con and Cha bonus with no detractors. The rest are terrible.


Luthorne wrote:
Caligni actually have +2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Int, as well as see in darkness. Beyond that, they have light sensitivity...and explode with a bright flash of light if they die. But still leave enough corpse to raise, so.

Wow that's sexy, right up there with hobgoblin. The light sensitivity sucks though.


Texas Snyper wrote:
Luthorne wrote:
Caligni actually have +2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Int, as well as see in darkness. Beyond that, they have light sensitivity...and explode with a bright flash of light if they die. But still leave enough corpse to raise, so.
Wow that's sexy, right up there with hobgoblin. The light sensitivity sucks though.

Not for a Chaokineticist! Mwahahahahaha!

Now to wait for a chance to build one of these for a game...

Silver Crusade

Texas Snyper wrote:
Luthorne wrote:
Caligni actually have +2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Int, as well as see in darkness. Beyond that, they have light sensitivity...and explode with a bright flash of light if they die. But still leave enough corpse to raise, so.
Wow that's sexy, right up there with hobgoblin. The light sensitivity sucks though.

That's tex mex sexy right there, and while I like Hobs more (no penalty), they're basically born void kineticist. See in darkness does help them skip a wild talent which is pretty nice though.


N. Jolly wrote:
Texas Snyper wrote:
Luthorne wrote:
Caligni actually have +2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Int, as well as see in darkness. Beyond that, they have light sensitivity...and explode with a bright flash of light if they die. But still leave enough corpse to raise, so.
Wow that's sexy, right up there with hobgoblin. The light sensitivity sucks though.
That's tex mex sexy right there, and while I like Hobs more (no penalty), they're basically born void kineticist. See in darkness does help them skip a wild talent which is pretty nice though.

Technically they skip 2 wild talents, and basic chaokinesis really helps for being outside.

Fell in love with them for a few classes actually, but it really comes down to which would be best suited for the module. (I'm rolling up both anyway.)

Silver Crusade

Also can I admit how much of a corner I've turned on Pushing Infusion? It's now rated green, and after having played with it for a while, I can say that it's a lot more valuable than I gave it credit for, something that I've have a lot more fun with than I was expecting.

Based on what's been said here, Caligni have been added to the guide as purple, doubt there's much that'd cause that to change unless they have some HUGE flaw no one's talking about.

And I seriously can't believe this guide's about to hit 1400 post, that's just way more than I was ever expecting from this.


From what Xelaaredn is saying, I'd probably go purple as chaos start, and a strong blue for all other elements. That basic chaokinesis is key to minimizing their weakness, when its relevant. That -2 Int hurts me in my "I want all the skill points" gut. But that's just me.

Question though, wouldn't you still need eyes of the void + greater if you want to see through the supernatural darkness of greater darkness infusion?

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