Yes.Just to clarify... if a racial FCB affects a class ability, you can only begin taking that racial FCB after you have obtained said ability?
For a specific example, the halfling kineticist FCB:
Kineticist (Occult Adventures pg. 85 (Amazon)): Increase the capacity of the kineticist’s internal buffer by 1/6 point.So I cannot select that until 7th level, correct?
What? That's as silly as it is stupid.
Paizo has errated the old FCBs so you hae to actually have the ability the FCB applies to, and added that wording to Occult book. So you can't start buffering the buffer until you actually have it...
You could retrain once you gain the ability right?
For the favored class benefit, I'd houserule it to where you didn't get the benefit before you got the feature, but I'd let you take it.
Since this seems to be THE kineticist thread.
I have a stupid question. How come some talents have a burn cost of "0" and some have a burn cost of "-"? What is the difference?
Paizo has errated the old FCBs so you hae to actually have the ability the FCB applies to, and added that wording to Occult book. So you can't start buffering the buffer until you actually have it...
Can you post a quote and source link please?
You could retrain once you gain the ability right?
Sadly, I do not see an option to retrain favored class bonuses anywhere.
If an alternate favored class option modifies a class
feature or ability, it can’t be taken before the character has
that class feature or ability. For example, if a class gains a
class feature at 6th level, a character couldn’t take a racial
favored class option that applies to that class feature until
6th level, even if the benefit from that option wouldn’t be
high enough to add a bonus until a later level
so you'd have to wait till lv6 not 7, but you're still waiting forever
Paizo has errated the old FCBs so you hae to actually have the ability the FCB applies to, and added that wording to Occult book. So you can't start buffering the buffer until you actually have it...Can you post a quote and source link please?
You could retrain once you gain the ability right?Sadly, I do not see an option to retrain favored class bonuses anywhere.
....Related Point: Can I apply the aasimar or elf oracle's favored class bonus to a revelation I do not yet have? Can I do so for the aasimar bard’s favored class bonus?
No, when choosing which class feature’s effective level to increase, you can only select a feature that you already have. For example, an aasimar flame oracle cannot choose to improve the wings of fire revelation with her favored class bonus until she actually gains the revelation at 7th level or beyond; she could not start augmenting it at 1st level.
For the halfling it would be pointless to take it at 6... Just take the the extra HP and start picking up the Buffer FCB at 7th. Otherwise you're stuck with a fractional FCB that literally does nothing...
And, yes, Ravingdork, it is silly.
And what about the Human FCB ?
1. I can take that FCB from level 1 on, getting Extra Wild talent at level 6.
2. I have to wait until I can take the Extra Wild Talent feat.Second question :
Can I take the Defense wild talent for my expanded element ? If so, how, as it's not an utility talent, nor an infusion, and the specific text of Extra Wild Talent prevents me to do so ?
1. You can take the FCB for humans from level 1 because it does not modify a class feature you don't have. It grants a benefit after six levels.
2. You can take the Expanded Defense wild talent for your expanded element wild talent choice, or for the Extra Wild Talent feat. You just can't select the (defense) wild talent or blast wild talents directly.
The difference is that Expanded Defense is a (utility) wild talent that gives you access to a second (defense) wild talent after/at Level 7.
Yeah, but you don't meet prerequisites for Extra Wild Talent before level 6, so you shouldn't be able to take it... no ? I mean, it would work the exact same way as preventing from taking an FCB for not having access to a class feature.
Sorry for the Expanded Defense, I forgot it.
FCB only care if you're modifying something you don't have. Gaining a feat that you currently don't qualify is fine. Personally I'd take a level or 2 of HP to be able to get the feat at a higher level.
That is not a clarification. That is a new rule. I don't care what they say to the contrary.
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Since this seems to be THE kineticist thread.
I have a stupid question. How come some talents have a burn cost of "0" and some have a burn cost of "-"? What is the difference?
I can answer this, a cost of 0 is generally used for wild talents that are activated, while the cost of - is generally a non activated wild talent, something that's always active.
I can answer this, a cost of 0 is generally used for wild talents that are activated, while the cost of - is generally a non activated wild talent, something that's always active.Since this seems to be THE kineticist thread.
I have a stupid question. How come some talents have a burn cost of "0" and some have a burn cost of "-"? What is the difference?
Thanks!
Second stupid question:For physical blasts like earth. Are you using existing material from your environment? or does the material just appear magically for you to blast?
I can answer this, a cost of 0 is generally used for wild talents that are activated, while the cost of - is generally a non activated wild talent, something that's always active.Since this seems to be THE kineticist thread.
I have a stupid question. How come some talents have a burn cost of "0" and some have a burn cost of "-"? What is the difference?Thanks!
Second stupid question:
For physical blasts like earth. Are you using existing material from your environment? or does the material just appear magically for you to blast?
I believe it magically appears for all but the aether blast
That is not a clarification. That is a new rule. I don't care what they say to the contrary.
Agreed. I've never observed anything prior to that to indicate you could not utilize your FCB for 6 levels. Honestly, I feel that those types of FCBs are almost pointless. Oh, sure you can increase your Buffer, but not until level 12... Which is close to end game for most Pathfinder.
That is not a clarification. That is a new rule. I don't care what they say to the contrary.Agreed. I've never observed anything prior to that to indicate you could not utilize your FCB for 6 levels. Honestly, I feel that those types of FCBs are almost pointless. Oh, sure you can increase your Buffer, but not until level 12... Which is close to end game for most Pathfinder.
technically you can take it lv6, thus getting the increase at lv11. but your point is still valid.
When brought up to Mark, he said that, and maybe others, maybe they could get an exception to this rule. Now I'm not sure if anything will happen because of it. But he agreed that having racial FCB that you couldn't take for many levels at all wasn't a very good idea.
Perhaps you can take it, but can't complete it until you have the ability first? That would make more sense to me.
Perhaps you can take it, but can't complete it until you have the ability first? That would make more sense to me.
With the nerfing of the "problematic" FCB's it probably wouldn't be an issue anymore honestly to take FCB before you have the ability. It used to be an issue by loding an extra 3 or 4 levels for revelations, getting the lv10 and lv12 revelation bonuses at lv7 and lv8 on something you can't take till lv7. But now that it's 1/6 an early +1 probably isn't bad.
I can answer this, a cost of 0 is generally used for wild talents that are activated, while the cost of - is generally a non activated wild talent, something that's always active.Since this seems to be THE kineticist thread.
I have a stupid question. How come some talents have a burn cost of "0" and some have a burn cost of "-"? What is the difference?Thanks!
Second stupid question:
For physical blasts like earth. Are you using existing material from your environment? or does the material just appear magically for you to blast?
You're using your connection to your elemental plane to bring through the material, except for aether users.
Perhaps you can take it, but can't complete it until you have the ability first? That would make more sense to me.
And that makes perfect sense. I would deny any argument that someone would try to claim that it grants you the ability early; that is just ignorance along the same lines of "well the rules don't specifically say I cannot, therefore I can!"
I cannot see any game breaking mechanics in allowing one specific race to have 1 additional Buffer point at level 6. It's. One. Single. Point. Of. Burn. And the only way to reduce the cost of utility talents.
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How many interesting feats came out with a the book a class was released in though? Maybe 1 or 2 for class, if that? The class is still new, it needs time for the interesting (and borderline broken) stuff to get released in the soft-cover book line.
Most classes can access a lot of interesting stuff that wasn't designed for that class, which gave them a good number of options out of the box.
For example, the gunslinger can use general ranged feats such as Rapid Reload or Clustered Shots in addition to the gunslinger-specific feats it was introduced with (of which there were 7). The cavalier was introduced to a game that already had basic mounted combat feats, and it also as a class is encouraged to use Teamwork feats which are also interesting and strategic. The magus could make use of a ton of caster feats, including metamagic, item crafting, and Spell Perfection.
The kineticist however can't tap into most of those options because its fighting mechanics are so unusual. Most of the ranged feats aren't useful, especially if you use energy blasts. For a switch hitter, Quickdraw is pointless. And while some general melee options work (eg Lunge), others work only with the elemental annihilator (eg Two-Weapon Fighting, Vital Strike). Unlike the other Occult classes it's not even an actual spellcaster, which means it can't use generic or psychic-specific caster feats.
Compare the Occultist, which gets Extend Resonant Power, Efficient Focus Shift, Rapid Focus Shift, and Implement Focus in addition to Extra Focus Power and Extra Mental Focus, use of metamagic, AND more effective use of traditional ranged and melee combat feats.
While I am looking forwards to increased options for the kineticist in Occult Origins and other supplements, its lack of feats is not simply due to being a new class.
A kinectist is unable to use a Kinetic Blast when inside a Antimagic Field since it is a spell-like ability. Would it also prevent a Kinetic Blast from doing damage if shot from outside the field?
I would think the physical ones would but the magic ones wouldn't.
Antimagic field disables any and all magical abilities unless specified otherwise. This means Supernatural abilities (channeling, domain powers, bloodline powers etc) Spell-like Abilities, and Spells all stop working. Period. It doesn't matter what type of spell it is, or what effect it has, it doesn't penetrate the antimagic field.
So if you shoot a fireball into a square and part of the area of effect is within an antimagic field, then the area within the field is completely protected. The flames from the spell simply stop at the field and don't go any further.
Only non-magical effects from spells still persist. For example, wall of stone is an instantaneous spell effect, so the effect of the magic is already completed the instant the spell if cast. There is nothing left for the antimagic field to disable, so a wall of stone persists, because it no longer has magic.
For the energy Kinetic Blasts, there is no question, they don't penetrate a field and are stopped cold upon entering. The physical blasts are a little iffy though. On the one hand, it's a magical attack that conjures temporary physical matter to propel through the air, on the other hand, you're essentially conjuring a ball of air/earth/water to hurl at an enemy or straight up hurling a weapon through the air.
Ultimately, I, personally, would have to say that physical blasts don't work in an antimagic field because, ultimately, you are conjuring the elemental material, temporarily, from the astral plane. However, I could easily see how others might rule otherwise.
That is not a clarification. That is a new rule. I don't care what they say to the contrary.
It follows the same logic as prerequisites and taking/choosing abilities/etc for classes with archtypes.
I don't particularly care for it, but it isn't a "new" rule by any stretch. People just assumed otherwise, as mentioned in the quote.
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Could just be me but I fail to see why in most cases a kineticist would conjure elemental matter from another plane. I've got an Aerokineticist who, under most circumstances, has no trouble finding his element to hurl at baddies. I've got a hydrokineticist player in a game I DM for in Skull and Shackles who also has no trouble so far using his terrestrial element without need to conjure it from...Antimagic field disables any and all magical abilities unless specified otherwise. This means Supernatural abilities (channeling, domain powers, bloodline powers etc) Spell-like Abilities, and Spells all stop working. Period. It doesn't matter what type of spell it is, or what effect it has, it doesn't penetrate the antimagic field.
So if you shoot a fireball into a square and part of the area of effect is within an antimagic field, then the area within the field is completely protected. The flames from the spell simply stop at the field and don't go any further.
Only non-magical effects from spells still persist. For example, wall of stone is an instantaneous spell effect, so the effect of the magic is already completed the instant the spell if cast. There is nothing left for the antimagic field to disable, so a wall of stone persists, because it no longer has magic.
For the energy Kinetic Blasts, there is no question, they don't penetrate a field and are stopped cold upon entering. The physical blasts are a little iffy though. On the one hand, it's a magical attack that conjures temporary physical matter to propel through the air, on the other hand, you're essentially conjuring a ball of air/earth/water to hurl at an enemy or straight up hurling a weapon through the air.
Ultimately, I, personally, would have to say that physical blasts don't work in an antimagic field because, ultimately, you are conjuring the elemental material, temporarily, from the astral plane. However, I could easily see how others might rule otherwise.
I understand what you are saying, but I can understand where that is coming from. Think of it this way-when you manipulate any element, either drawing it from the elemental plain or affecting terrestrial matter, you are still using energy to maintain its consistancy and relative impact force on the target. An anti-magic field removes this supernatural energy causing the air or earths consistancy to disapate, rendering it harmless inside the field.
Generally anti magic fields are something that really only the martially inclined would ever associate with and doesn't really make any sense, since theoretically in order to even make one, you need to have a powerful magical artifact or magic caster to create it...which would be inside the field...which negates magic...meaning it would only create an arcane paradox, piss off the universe, and fissile spectacularly and then reactivate...and then fissile and so-on. The only way you could get away with it is have it be a technological device, which you then need to justify being there...and don't say a wizard did it because I don't think there are many wizards that would do something like this willingly or even intentionally.
Could just be me but I fail to see why in most cases a kineticist would conjure elemental matter from another plane. I've got an Aerokineticist who, under most circumstances, has no trouble finding his element to hurl at baddies. I've got a hydrokineticist player in a game I DM for in Skull and Shackles who also has no trouble so far using his terrestrial element without need to conjure it from...Antimagic field disables any and all magical abilities unless specified otherwise. This means Supernatural abilities (channeling, domain powers, bloodline powers etc) Spell-like Abilities, and Spells all stop working. Period. It doesn't matter what type of spell it is, or what effect it has, it doesn't penetrate the antimagic field.
So if you shoot a fireball into a square and part of the area of effect is within an antimagic field, then the area within the field is completely protected. The flames from the spell simply stop at the field and don't go any further.
Only non-magical effects from spells still persist. For example, wall of stone is an instantaneous spell effect, so the effect of the magic is already completed the instant the spell if cast. There is nothing left for the antimagic field to disable, so a wall of stone persists, because it no longer has magic.
For the energy Kinetic Blasts, there is no question, they don't penetrate a field and are stopped cold upon entering. The physical blasts are a little iffy though. On the one hand, it's a magical attack that conjures temporary physical matter to propel through the air, on the other hand, you're essentially conjuring a ball of air/earth/water to hurl at an enemy or straight up hurling a weapon through the air.
Ultimately, I, personally, would have to say that physical blasts don't work in an antimagic field because, ultimately, you are conjuring the elemental material, temporarily, from the astral plane. However, I could easily see how others might rule otherwise.
Because it simplifies mechanics. Otherwise, if using your blast pulls from the environment, then there needs to be rules on how much of the environment is altered for every blast it makes. Does each earth blast make one 5-ft square difficult terrain? Does using a water blast on a ship suck the water from the potable water in the barrels?
They simplified the mechanics so that all of the blasts conjure it's element from another plane, and then it vanishes back into the plane.
Tels, does it actually state that somewhere, or is that just conjecture?
Tels, does it actually state that somewhere, or is that just conjecture?
Probably not specifically, but it's something that came up a few times in the playtest and Mark clarified that they conjure the element from another plane.
Tels, does it actually state that somewhere, or is that just conjecture?Probably not specifically, but it's something that came up a few times in the playtest and Mark clarified that they conjure the element from another plane.
It also prevents things like "you can't use it because there isn't any fire around" and makes sure the ability is always reliably there for the character.
Compare for example Smoke Storm who explicitly calls for a source of fire to be used
I skimmed the thread, and I did not see anything regarding one precise multiclassing: the Evangelist.
So, it might be redundant, but what do you think about getting into Evangelist? Except for the first level, nothing is lost, so...worth it? Useless?
Any thoughts?
Evangelist isn't multi classing; its a Prestige Class, but yes it's pretty much always a good option for pretty much anyone. Just need to find a good deity bonus to go with kineticist.
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I got the PDF from my subscription, and other than the two new elements there isn't much in Occult Origins. Wood has a lot of similarities with earth, and Void has a lot of similarities with aether.
Wood's defense gives a natural armor boost instead of DR, and has wood/nature themed utility powers.
Void has a Physical and Negative Energy simple blast. It also is very attractive for a secondary element, as it has an energy composite blast with void blast and any other simple energy blast. It's main problem is that is completely useless against undead or anything with negative energy affinity, which is worse than fire.
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I got the PDF from my subscription, and other than the two new elements there isn't much in Occult Origins. Wood has a lot of similarities with earth, and Void has a lot of similarities with aether.
Wood's defense gives a natural armor boost instead of DR, and has wood/nature themed utility powers.
Void has a Physical and Negative Energy simple blast. It also is very attractive for a secondary element, as it has an energy composite blast with void blast and any other simple energy blast. It's main problem is that is completely useless against undead or anything with negative energy affinity, which is worse than fire.
Two elements is still a decent amount, although with the size of OO, I'm not sure how big they'd be. Still, it's more an excuse for laziness rather than really waiting for it, although it will be fun to add some new things in.
Yeah, you can make some pretty cool things with Occult Origins.
Yeah, you can make some pretty cool things with Occult Origins.
Where do you get the stuff for it if it hasn't been released yet?
Yeah, you can make some pretty cool things with Occult Origins.
Any chance you'll be making a Void character to go along with your Wood element kineticist ?
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Yeah, you can make some pretty cool things with Occult Origins.Where do you get the stuff for it if it hasn't been released yet?
If you are a subscriber, you get the books shipped early, and you can download the PDF as soon as the physical copy ships.