Unarmored swordmaster archetype: when is it coming?!?
Thank you.
Kensai is great save for the casting.
Monk is alright save for the magic ki.
Just a dude, no armour, uses martial attacks and shiz.
So a swashbuckler?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
What makes you think Paizo should tell you right now when or if one is coming out:-)
The Aldori Dueling Archetype is minimal or no armor. Plus throw a little duelist in there too. The Aldori dueling sword is 1 handed weapon that is finessable. So you can use Slashing grace for dex to damage. Or you could take the prestige class sword lord and get dex to damage. The prestige class gets you Aldori Dueling feat for free. While you can wear light armor you don't have to. With all the AC bonuses you do get you can forgoe armor an dump strength to boost you dex and intelligence. I'd try to fit all 3 class in some how. You'll want steel net 7th and 8 levels sword lord and 5 levels duelist. You'll be able to fight defensively at no penalty with crane style getting +4 to your AC, +5 for INT from canny defense, and +4 defensive parry. You can further use sense motive as swift action vs DC 10 + Opponents BAB to get +2 AC vs their attacks. Slap dodge in there and that's +14 AC before Dex and Magic Items. Not bad for no armor. Get bracers of AC 8, ring of protection 5, amulet of natural armor 5 with +10 dex and you have a 52(54 against 1 opponet) AC level 20.
This a quick build so my numbers might be off a bit give or take a few.
Just build a fighter and don't wear armor? What are you looking for in this archetype?
If I had to guess, about the only thing the unarmored fighter would do would be to provide an AC bonus in addition to dex - there are already a few full-BAB classes that do this. The Swashbuckler, the deulist, etc.
Folks are kinda uncreative.
An unarmored sword Master has a ton of implied flavor. Nothing listed here really captures that.
DR doesnt reflect it well since the swordmaster is more about parrying and dodging blows rather than simply eating it.
Character concepts that simply pour on the Ac Boosts without any features to truly exemplify the sword master's art fail the concept in my belief.
A swashbuckler is probably the closest analogy but too locked into it's flavor of charm and style. A sword master is simply the master of his form of combat. Charisma is/should be unimportant to him.
You could go for a Martial Artist, a monk archetype.
The archetype is without ki pool but unlocks fighter specific feats. If you want these feats for a sword, you would have to pick from Asian ones like nine ring broadsword and tri-point double-edged sword.
There is only one archetype ability really about unarmed combat and it's not that significant. While it trades away a lot, it keeps the amazing monk speed. The unusual immunities to physical hardships don't hurt either.
|
Folks are kinda uncreative.
An unarmored sword Master has a ton of implied flavor. Nothing listed here really captures that.
DR doesnt reflect it well since the swordmaster is more about parrying and dodging blows rather than simply eating it.
Character concepts that simply pour on the Ac Boosts without any features to truly exemplify the sword master's art fail the concept in my belief.
A swashbuckler is probably the closest analogy but too locked into it's flavor of charm and style. A sword master is simply the master of his form of combat. Charisma is/should be unimportant to him.
Did you forget Kata Master.. Im sure I mentioned that.
Mh, I suppose that it would be a high level Swashbuckler that has enough DEX to use Silken Ceremonial Armor without losing damage.
I still want a martial class with Canny Defense though.
Yes, like that, but that starts off at level 1.
I mean, a Sacred Fist can sword-flurry starting at lv4 if you retrain to get Crusader's Flurry then.
|
I would also enjoy an archetype that did this.
I imagine it so: "Blademaster"
A swashbuckler archetype that does the following
Changes panache to being dexterity based but having it use your dex mod-2 (min 1) and rename it to "Blademaster's Focus"
It refreshes by 1 point for every hour you practice with your blade and when you drop an enemy to 0 or lower HP.
Changes Swashbuckler Finesse to "Blademaster Finesse" and changes light or one handed piercing weapons to bladed weapons.
Replace charmed life with "Blademaster's Edge" which allows the replacement of strength with dexterity for damage with a single weapon from the light or heavy blade fighter weapon group and gains a +1 shield bonus to AC when wielding that type of weapon, at level 10 these bonuses apply to all weapons in the light or heavy blades fighter weapon group and the to shield bonus increases to +2, at level 18 you may deflect one ranged attack/round with your weapon(as if using deflect arrows) and the shield bonus increases to +3.
Replace Derring-Do with Canny Defence which only works when the Blademaster is considered armed with a bladed weapon, has at least 1 Focus in his pool, and isn't wearing any armour or wielding a shield.
Replace Kip-Up with "Blademaster's Feint" which allows you to give up your first attack to feint as long as you have at least 1 focus. You may use an attack roll as your bluff check by spending 1 Focus.
Change the text of precise strike to use bladed weapons instead of piercing weapons and remove the text stating that the Blademaster can't use their other hand. Include in it's place the following: The Blademaster must have both hands on a bladed weapon or weapons to use this ability, and cannot use this ability if one of the Blademaster's hands is otherwise occupied.
Change Swashbuckler's Initiative to Blademaster's Knowledge which allows the Blademaster to add 1/2 their level on appraise, knowledge, and spellcraft checks when concerning blades. By spending 1 hour practising with a magical blade and expending all points of Focus the Blademaster currently has(minimum 1) the Blademaster may make a spellcraft check to identify the magical properties of a blade as if they had cast Identify, using spellcraft in this manner considers it a class skill.
Change the name of Swashbuckler Weapon Training to "Blademaster Weapon Training" and change piercing weapons in the text to bladed weapons.
At 6th the Blademaster gains "Center Mind 1/day" which allows you to spend a move action to refresh your Blademaster's Focus. It increases to 2/day at 14th.
Replace Swashbuckler's Grace with "Blademaster's Freedom" which doubles the bonus from Canny Defense vs AoO.
Replace Superiour Feint with "Greater Blademaster's Feint" which causes the feint from Blademaster's Feint to cause the opponent to be flat-footed for the entire round.
Replace Subtle Blade with "Blademaster's Grip" which causes any blade wielded by the Blademaster to be immune to any effects that would target it, and the Blademaster doesn't drop the blade when stunned, asleep, or anytime the Blademaster otherwise would unwillingly be caused to not have the blade in their hand.
Replace Perfect Thrust with "Blademaster's Stance" which allows the Blademaster's Canny Defence bonus to apply against combat manoeuvres as well.
Replace Swashbuckler's Edge with "Blademaster's Expertise" which allows a Blademaster to spend 1 focus after missing with an attack in a full-attack action to re-roll the attack with a -5. This ability can only be used once per full-attack action.
Replace Cheat Death with "Blademaster's Flurry" which allows the Blademaster to use the deflect arrows ability of Blademaster's Edge any number of times per round by expending an AoO for each use after the first.
Mh, I suppose that it would be a high level Swashbuckler that has enough DEX to use Silken Ceremonial Armor without losing damage.
I still want a martial class with Canny Defense though.
Kapenia Dancer Magus.. :-)
But that's a caster :(
But that's a caster :(
Yep.. but at some point, you have to put SOME limits on things. Canny Defense is, quite frankly, a silly ability. The best way to prevent getting hurt (high AC) is always going to be not getting hit (dodging/dexterity). Next is going to be preventing damage from hits that do land (armor/shield). It take a pretty big stretch of the imagination to allow INT to give you the ability to dodge attacks faster than your physically are able to (DEX).
Maybe if Paizo prints a "High Seas Adventures" book, you'll get a Bucaneer class.
Just imagine - a Swashbuckler/Brawler/Gunslinger Hybrid that's an unarmed swashbuckler that gains Teamwork Feats on the fly and can grant them to allies for a short time, flurries with swords and/or guns, and uses Deeds with a Luck/Grit/Panache pool.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
But that's a caster :(Yep.. but at some point, you have to put SOME limits on things. Canny Defense is, quite frankly, a silly ability. The best way to prevent getting hurt (high AC) is always going to be not getting hit (dodging/dexterity). Next is going to be preventing damage from hits that do land (armor/shield). It take a pretty big stretch of the imagination to allow INT to give you the ability to dodge attacks faster than your physically are able to (DEX).
Ah, yes, I forgot about a The Great Imagination Scarcity common in tabletop gaming.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I wish we had an universal unarmed & unarmored variant. Unchained was the perfect opportunity to give us one, but Paizo squandered it... So now we have to wait for specific class archetypes.
Or create/use house rules... That's what I do.
If you care...
- Evasive Maneuvers: You can exchange your armor and shield proficiency to instead be able to add a Dodge bonus to AC equal to your Int, Wis or Cha modifier (whichever you select at 1st level) when not donning armor or shield of any.
If your class has proficiency with medium armor, this bonus increases by +1 at 6th level and every 6 levels thereafter.
If your class has proficiency with heavy armor, this bonus increases by +1 at 4th level and every 4 levels thereafter.
This bonus does not stack with other class features that allow you to add Wis, Int or Cha bonus to AC, unless said class feature allows the character to replace her Dex bonus to AC, and even then, you still can’t add the same attribute twice.
- Unarmed Combat: You get the IUS feat and your Unarmed Strike damage die rises to 1d6 (1d4 if you're small). You're considered to have the Stunning Fist feat for the purpose of fulfilling prerequisites.
Additionally, if your class is proficient will all martial weapons, you can exchange this proficiency to instead be proficient with all Monk weapons and a single martial weapon of your choice.
Why add an unarmored variant for every class?
Because I like character variety. Unfortunately, while there are many ways to focus on all other combat styles (You don't have to belong to any specific class to be an archer, TWFer, 2-hander, grappler, tripper, etc), unarmed/unarmored combat remains restricted to very few classes/archetypes that don't necessarily make the best fit for your character concept. This is a more open-ended variant.
Is this balanced?
I think so. Unarmed Combat isn't known for being overpowered, and Monk weapons are not exactly amazing either.
Won't characters use this variant to get high touch ACs with no ACP?
Perhaps... But then again, their flat-footed AC will be very low, and they'll need to spend an item slot if they want to keep their AC up to par with their level. Doesn't really bother me.
What about multiclassing? What about classes who don't get armor proficiency anyway, but could benefit from this rule, such as Wizards adding Int to AC?
This variant can only be selected at 1st level. In order to multiclass, you must have at least 2 class levels, and at 2nd level, you can't take this variant.
Wizards and Sorcerers getting a free AC bonus is one of my concerns, which is why I specifically mentioned that the dodge bonus to AC replaces armor proficiency gained through class levels.
Doesn't that mean Wizards could dip a single level in a class with martial proficiency to get this ability?
Well, if they want to lose a caster level to increase their AC, I'm fine with that.
What about classes that get better armor proficiency at higher levels, such as Magus?
This is a bit more complicated. I'd simply rule that whenever a character gets better armor proficiency through class features of the class that grants him the dodge bonus to AC, he'd simply add the appropriate numerical adjustments to that bonus.
e.g.: When a Magus gains proficiency with medium armor, he'd add a bonus equal to 1/4 his Magus level to his Dodge bonus AC, as long as he got that armor proficiency from one of his Magus' class features, and not with a feat or through multi-classing.
Why give Stunning Fist for characters with martial weapon proficiency?
I didn't. They are only considered to have that feat for the purpose of fulfilling feat prerequisites. That's so that they can grab cool unarmed combat feats (such as Dragon Ferocity) at a reasonable level.
Won't this step on the Monk's toes?
Yeah... A little. However, note that the Monk is still better at fighting unarmed (his damage die scales with level and he can add his full Str modifier to off-hand unarmed attacks) and unarmored (a Monk's bonus to AC is untyped, so it applies to flat-footed AC as well, although classes with access to heavy armor will have higher AC). In my case, specifically, this is even less of an issue, since Monks benefit from a handful of house-rules that make them considerably more effective, including proficiency with all Monk weapons, free MoMS archetype and increased critical multiplier for unarmed strikes at 8th level.
|
Folks are kinda uncreative.
An unarmored sword Master has a ton of implied flavor. Nothing listed here really captures that.
DR doesnt reflect it well since the swordmaster is more about parrying and dodging blows rather than simply eating it.
Character concepts that simply pour on the Ac Boosts without any features to truly exemplify the sword master's art fail the concept in my belief.
A swashbuckler is probably the closest analogy but too locked into it's flavor of charm and style. A sword master is simply the master of his form of combat. Charisma is/should be unimportant to him.
Ah, yes, I forgot about a The Great Imagination Scarcity common in tabletop gaming.
Why don't you just use creativity/roleplay your "HP" as being your ability to deftly avoid lethal blows by deflecting them with your sword? It's your 'vitality pool' or 'stamina pool' or 'sword expertise pool' and you spend the points when someone is attempting to hit you and you block it with your weapon? It's not like mechanically taking HP damage is you getting black eyes or cut to ribbons. If you want it to have some 'gritty martial' nature, then maybe that opponent's desperate attack lands a graze on your face, you acknowledge your enemy's skill with a smile and a "not good enough" before masterfully landing a decisive blow ('power attack') and taking him down with all the grace and speed as your favorite swordsman.
DR can absolutely be creatively described as you turning blows into grazes/misses, especially with the roleplay.
I mean, if an ogre hits you for 30 hp, you can choose to roleplay it as that ogre is clubbing you silly in a looney tunes style as cartoon stars float over your head for a few seconds. Or you can roleplay it as you sidestepping as blow hits the ground with a burst of speed and honed reflexes. Mechanically it's not like that 30 hp actually negated your ability to act heroically, unless of course it drops you to zero.
Those 'cure spells' are helping you recharge tired muscles or re-energize, they aren't closing wounds because you didn't a hit. Maybe just some scratches and bruises, but those are merely flesh wounds, and a veteran swordsman shrugs them off easily enough.
For the unarmored weapon master, the danger on the battlefield is fatigue, the moments when your body no longer obeys, when your reflexes slow, and the fine honed edge of your ability is blunted by mortality.
With creativity you can just roleplay your armor as basically looking like your favorite coat, kimono, or normal clothes. The only reason it's an issue is encumbrance or some devious type thinking you're an easy mark by mistake. The first of these 'problems' is laughable if you're a STR build, and really not an issue if you get a handy haversack later, or muleback cords, or just don't dump your STR score. The second one is just a roleplay issue of the GM/other players - the devious type who would think twice about attacking a guy in armor is the same type that would cower while seeing the steely, deliberate walk of a veteran swordsman, no matter what he was wearing. Or perhaps you wear a sash or style emblematic of your 'school' or background (or kilt, or hairstyle, or tattoo, or whatever) that clues people in.
If you worried a lot about what others who aren't 'creative' enough to roleplay with your desired style, just get the Endurance feat so you can sleep in your 'clothes' and maybe get a glammered bonus.
If you're looking for other in game mechanics, have you thought about some of the ways you could emulate the ability with feats and skills?
A high sense motive with Unarmed Strike+Snake Style lets you attempt to 'avoid' or 'deflect' or 'parry' (or however you want to fluff the enemy missing) an attack as an immediate action each round. It's pretty iconic and easy to get by third level with any 'martial' class.
Other feats like Combat Expertise + Threatening Defender seems appropriate, and sets you up for taking your improved disarm/sunder/whatever other tricks you want your swordsman to use. Shield of Swings is an alternative. Dodge is similarly iconic, especially if getting Canny Defense is a goal - you can always go into Duelist.
Fighter or a Slayer are both martial classes that could do it. Swashbuckler can do it, too. A Daring champion cavalier with the right orders has a good set, too. Treat Charisma as your warrior spirit, and your steely resolve and masterful skill will strike fear into your enemies when you show off your prowess with dazzling display or intimidate.
|
Flavor != Mechanics.
DR can be shrugging of a hit, or immediate regeneration, or even parrying the blow to a less damaging spot or to miss entirely if the hit fails to overcome dr.
Class features to add AC simply allow you to meet your goal of being unarmored. "Mastering the sword master's art" is a role-playing goal, that can be done by any number of classes regardless of mechanics.
Swashbuckler: Parry and Riposte, AC bonuses, Panache, Precise Strike.
Rogue: Two Weapon Feint + Sneak Attack + Finesse Training
Monk: Unarmored AC, Flurry, Style Strikes
Fighter: Feat Chains + Weapon Training
Barbarian: Rage + Rage Powers do not have to be frothing berserking. They can be a battle trance or dance, just with an extreme focus.
Slayer: Studied Target + Rogue tricks.
Investigator: Studied Combat is awesome for an intelligent sword master. Go Sleuth and you aren't even a caster anymore.
I wish we had an universal unarmed & unarmored variant. Unchained was the perfect opportunity to give us one, but Paizo squandered it... So now we have to wait for specific class archetypes.
Or create/use house rules... That's what I do.
If you care...
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **...
seems pretty good for sohei
Edit: if you don't like stat dumping
I wish we had an universal unarmed & unarmored variant. Unchained was the perfect opportunity to give us one, but Paizo squandered it... So now we have to wait for specific class archetypes.
Or create/use house rules... That's what I do.
If you care...
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **...
seems pretty good for sohei
Edit: if you don't like stat dumping
Well... You can still dump the attributes you're not using as your AC booster...
|
Here's my take on an armor-less sword master that's not stuck fishing for crits with a rapier or lugging around some strange exotic weapon they'll never find a magical upgrade for:
Choosing to focus solely on his sword, a blade master foregoes any armor at all, relying on solid parries, quick reflexes, and mobility to see him through battle.
Soft Skills
The blade master adds Acrobatics and Sense Motive to his list of class skills, but he removes Handle Animal and Ride.
Passive Parry (Ex)
So long as the blade master wields a sword and is not wearing armor or using a shield, he adds a +2 shield bonus to his AC. This bonus improves by +1 at 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter.
This ability replaces the lore warden’s proficiency with all armor and shields.
Quickness (Ex)
At 2nd level, the blade master adds +5 to his base movement speed. This benefit applies only when he is not wearing armor, using a shield, or carrying a heavy load. This bonus improves by +5 at 6th level and every 4 levels thereafter.
This ability replaces bravery.
Active Parry (Ex)
At 3rd level, the blade master may use an immediate action to attempt to parry a melee weapon attack made against him. He may wait until he knows the result of the enemy's attack before declaring the use of this ability. The blade master rolls a normal attack roll and, if it meets or exceeds the enemy's attack roll, the attack is parried, causing no damage. At 7th level and every 4 levels thereafter, the blade master gains a +1 bonus on rolls made for this ability.
After attempting to use this power, whether or not the parry is successful, the blade master suffers a -2 penalty on all attack rolls until the end of his next turn.
This ability replaces Armor Training.
Blade Training (Ex)
At 5th level, a blade master gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls with all swords. This bonus increases by +1 at 9th level and every 4 levels thereafter.
This ability replaces Weapon Training.
Whirling Parry (Ex)
At 19th level, the blade master's active parry ability no longer requires an immediate action and can be attempted a number of times per round equal to his Dexterity modifier. The -2 penalty on his subsequent attacks is cumulative for each parry, however.
This ability replaces armor mastery.
Blade Mastery (Ex)
At 20th level, the blade master cannot be disarmed of any sword he wields and he automatically confirms any critical threat with a sword.
Well... You can still dump the attributes you're not using as your AC booster...I wish we had an universal unarmed & unarmored variant. Unchained was the perfect opportunity to give us one, but Paizo squandered it... So now we have to wait for specific class archetypes.
Or create/use house rules... That's what I do.
If you care...
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **...
seems pretty good for sohei
Edit: if you don't like stat dumping
true I'm just thinking of a tasty oracle dip at 2nd level.
Edit: actually those rules can flat break oradins...err more
I think there's potential for each class martial class for an unarmored archetype, wish Paizo went for it!