Osirionologist

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The Exchange

Merellin wrote:

After combat HP healing, And emergency in combat "Prevent death on next attack" healing. But mostly after combat topping off HP.

Would a Alchemist work with the Wasteland Blighter or Chirurgeon archetypes? Then healing touch and healing bombs and such discoveries.. I love the alchemist.. xD

Healing Bombs are awkward at best, really. You spend a prepared cure extract slot or a cure potion and a bomb to heal one person (if you hit them) for the effect of the extract/spell, doing minimum splash heal. Because it is healing, you do not add INT to it as you would with your bomb damage, so it ends up being rather weak in combat (and requires you to use precise bombs if you want to avoid healing enemies), heavy on your resources, and completely undesirable outside of combat due to more efficient ways of healing.

Healing Touch is better, and the alchemist can cover most of the condition removal your party may need, but you will have to prep extracts carefully. Fortunately, you can rely on mutagen and bombs for most of your combat needs, so is it possible to play a healing alchemist? Yes. Chirurgeon will be necessary due to Breath of Life later on.

If you have some downtime in your games generally, Clone Master may be a fun way to martyr yourself on the frontline with healing and administering cure extracts, or by creating alchemical simulacrums (and doppleganger) to have a full set of identical medics a la Valkyria Chronicles.

Shaman, especially Animist Shaman, is also rather potent at condition removal and healing, I'd prefer it for healing since you can straddle Witch and Oracles while wearing medium armor. Very versatile with your spirit and wandering spirit, too.

The Exchange

Horas Ebonfeather wrote:

I was trying to build a sniper around the idea of ,Cairn the longshot from Trigun.

I was going to use 5 lvls of Gunslinger; musket master,
than take rogue 6 lvls, sniper archetype with gives me the +10 feet for sneak attack per 3 lvls, than take rogue talents and use ninja trick talent and use all three talents on deadly range will add 30 ft to my sneak attack to a total of 80 feet. Than with the distance magic on my musket plus the musket master ability it would make the first range increment 100 ft.
My feat selection would be, point blank shot, precise shot, improved precise shot, rapid shot for sure
maybe wpn focus, snap shot, snap shot improved, and improved initiative

what do you think of this idea.

To avoid the arguments about sniping and sound, just head into Spellslinger Wizard after your 5th level in gunslinger and cast Invisibility and Silence on yourself. At 10th you can jump into Eldritch Knight to pump up the BAB again, and you'll be able to cast Greater Invisibility for some serious sniping.

Or alternatively, Musket Master 5, Rogue (Sniper) 1, pick up Accomplished Sneak Attacker while taking Wizard (Spellslinger) 3, then take Arcane Trickster to continue advancing spells and sneak attack.
Even more ways snipe. Speaking of which, Sniper Goggles will let you make ranged sneak attacks from any distance, so you'll want to pick those up regardless.

The Exchange

Halfling Blade Adept Arcanist 6, Eldritch Knight X
STR: 8 DEX: 18 CON: 12 INT: 16 WIS: 10 CHA: 15

Spoiler:

Mystery: Battle
Curse: Tongues
Feats:
1) Weapon Finesse
3) VMC: Revelation: Skilled at Arms
5) Dervish Dance (Scimitar)
7) VMC: Orison: Purify Food or Drink OR Create Water
7) Bonus Combat Feat: Weapon Focus: Scimitar
9) Extra Arcane Exploit: Spell Strike. Consider Toughness or Arcane Armor Training, too.
11) VMC: Curse Focus
11) Bonus Combat Feat: Arcane Strike
13) Improved Critical
15) VMC: Revelation: Resiliency
15) Bonus Combat Feat: Greater Weapon Focus
After level 16, go back to Arcanist and do whatever you want, really.

Exploits:
Arcanist Exploit 1 (replaced with Sword Bond, giving you an Arcane Bond with a Scimitar for you to use with Slashing Grace later)
Arcanist Exploit 3 (replaced with Sentient Sword, giving you a great scaling weapon)
Arcanist Exploit 5 Dimensional Slide*
Arcanist Exploit 6 - Halfling gets +1 arcane exploit from favored class +1/6 arcanist exploit progression, which will be used to get the Blade Adept's special offer exploit: Eldritch Blade (uses caster level instead of her class level for the bonded sword's powers)

*Dimensional Slide will let the Halfling engage by burning an arcane point and getting a 60ft teleport around the battlefield.
Isolate enemies with spells like Wall of Force to give yourself favorable positions. Bonus points for Dimensional Sliding yourself in and challenging an enemy to single combat.

Small Size will help offset your earlier weak BAB progression with an extra +1 to hit, go for Dex based combat with Weapon Finesse. Extra AC is nice since you will be using light armor to offset that spell failure chance.

Raise DEX at 4 and 8, raise INT for 12/16/20
Feel free to use Arcane Reservoir to increase spell DC a little if need be.
At level 16 you can crit fish in order to activate EK's capstone to swift-cast spells with your scimitar.

Greater Invisibility, Haste, Heroism are all spells that give you a boost in your melee fighting (and your allies). True Strike will let you do targeted disarm or other combat maneuvers.

Create Pit, Ice Spears, Walls (esp. Wall of Force/Wall of Stone), the various cloud spells all provide area control that largely won't affect you thanks to dimensional slide, which can also get you out of a dangerous situation.
Feel free to teleport into a flank for an ally with Dimensional Slide.

I'm not sure if it's worth the VMC Oracle unless you are really planning for the late late game. You give up a painful amount of feats that don't really have a lot of payback until later, mostly to save a single level of spell progression by not having to multiclass to something that provides martial weapon proficiency. Still, since you are not looking for damage, but control, it is doable. Feats feel really anemic.

The Exchange

As I explained in another thread about Sacred Fist recently, Guided Hand makes for a great Sacred Fist Warpriest build, creating a very WIS focused character.

Wisdom and WIS enhancing items give you +hit, +ac, +will save, +spells/day, +spell DC, +blessing DC, +fervor/day, +ki pool and +wis skills.

For a fun way to play it without using your fists, going Cleric (Crusader) 1, Sacred Fist X.

Cleric (Crusader) will get you armor proficiency to use until level 3, along with Weapon Focus and Proficiency with your deity's favorite weapon (whichever god you want, sacred fist doesn't require you to worship a specific deity anyway) as well as set you up for Guided Hand.

A human can take Channel Smite and Guided Hand at level one, which enables taking Crusader's Flurry at level 3.
That enables you to flurry with your deity's weapon using wisdom, and now you take off your armor (since you don't get the wisdom ac bonus or flurry with it on) and continue as you please.

Cutting the Cleric (Crusader) dip is possible, it just pushes the feats back a little (needing to take Weapon Focus, but let's be honest, you are going to take Weapon Focus with your weapon anyway) to everything coming online around level 5. It also requires a race that will get you the weapon proficiency.

This lets you do some fun builds like Elf SF of Cayden Cailean with a rapier (the true divine swashbuckler complete with flurry-critical fishing), or a dwarf SF of Torag with a warhammer (flurrying warhammer? Dwarf wisdom racial bonus?), tengu of Iomedae for longsword (or Shizuru for flurrying katana), or a half-elf with ancestral arms and [insert weapon you want to flurry with here + deity].

It's just a very diverse chassis. Some domain options are pretty cool and can outlast the one level dip in Cleric, though with Crusader you only get one. Some options I thought about when making a greatsword-flurrying champion:

Spoiler:

Painful Smite (Destruction, torture subdomain) lets you convert weapon damage to nonlethal (which is occasionally useful anyway if you want to capture)and add your wisdom modifier to the damage, you also get a free intimidate check to demoralize with a bonus to the intimidate check equal to the amount of nonlethal damage you dealt. 3+Wis times a day.

or

Seize the Initiative (War, Tactics subdomain) Whenever you/allies roll for initiative, can let one ally within 30 feet roll twice and take either result, 3+Wis times a day. Pretty nice ability, will always be useful.

For Cayden Cailean, a true affable rapier swashbuckling dandy who eschews armor:

Travel Domain gives +10 movement speed for a true monk-feel and Agile Feet lets you ignore difficult terrain as a free action 3+Wis/day.

The Exchange

A highly regarded expert wrote:
BretI wrote:
A highly regarded expert wrote:
I really need to update the guide. It doesn't take into account the Unchained Rogue (clearly better), the Accomplished Sneak Attacker feat, or the Arcanist class.

Given that your Arcane Reservoir doesn’t grow, Arcanist really isn’t a good choice for an Arcane Trickerster.

Unchained Rogue works well, Arcanist not so much.

Yeah, I was looking at that. Same problem you get with some of the other classes that can qualify for trickster, but aren't optimum choices, like the bard and magus: Level-based abilities that stop growing and become more irrelevant the more you level.

Your best arcane class choices remain wizard, followed by sorcerer. The others give up too much to stay viable into the higher levels, where the trickster starts to shine.

One distinct advantage the Arcanist brings however, is very nice flexibility and synergy with Ninja. I prefer Arcanist to Sorcerer for a CHA build Arcane Trickster. I actually played one from 1st to 11th quite enjoyably until a streak of bad luck and 3 failed reflex saves in a row got me roasted with aoe and an exploding statue. That was before Unchained Rogue came out or accomplished sneak attacker, so I do agree there are some other ways to build it that are probably stronger than the past.

However, I will disagree with the statement "The others give up too much to stay viable into the higher levels..." because Arcanist really does not give up too much.

Arcanist/Ninja get some nice things- Dimensional Slide is an incredibly nice positioning tool for an Arcane Trickster. With 4 levels, you get no-AoO provoking 40ft "teleport" to another location in sight, which lets you get a flanking position, out of danger, up onto a wall, etc, and only counts as 5ft of movement, so you can get quite a distance in one movement (I was playing a gnome, so this was especially nice due to small size speed - I can't emphasize enough how useful it is being able to move double your normal movement speed without AoO to anywhere in sight, ignoring difficult terrain or enemy positions). It stays relevant and useful throughout your career, and is used as part of a move action, which has the added benefit of leaving your swift action clear for things like Vanishing Trick, or immediate action Counterspell (another nice exploit), or at higher levels, to cast a quickened spell and a standard action spell. Being a part of a move action, you can "slide" to cover/concealment and make a stealth check.

Another exploit that is normally not that great on the Arcanist, Shadow Veil, gives you concealment and +5 bonus to stealth, which means you can burn an arcane point to emulate Hide in Plain Sight (but no need for any shadows) to make a stealth check and set yourself up for more sneak attacks or simply disappear.

On top of these, if you choose not to take them, you can always take Quick Study for utility, Potent Magic to grab even more damage dice to your spell-sneak attacking (or extra rounds of greater invisibility), a Metamagic feat, or Metamixing, which lets you, unlike the sorcerer, add metamagic to a spell on the fly without increasing the casting time. Or just take item creation feats to craft things or get a familiar (though poor familiar doesn't scale, and the aforementioned list was to counter the point that the abilities "fall off" over time).

Probably the biggest downsides I felt were the lack of Evasion (which really wasn't a big deal for me since you have a pretty good reflex save from rogue or ninja dip) and trapfinding (which you can get with a trait nowadays).

The Unchained Rogue looks nice, but I just can't imagine taking one level of it for the weapon finesse and then using a feat for accomplished sneak attacker. Entry into Arcane Trickster as Wizard3/Unchained Rogue 1 means that you have [+1] BAB at level 5. That... Even with relying on touch attacks, it's kinda scary. The quicker access to higher level spells is nice, but I've always thought the Arcane Trickster more leans on the Rogue's role in the party, and the opportunity cost in the skills and non-spell utility seems like it might hurt. Or perhaps not?

I'll have to try it next.

The Exchange

Malefic wrote:
So my wizard is a wizard. But he wants to be a magus. As a level 6 divination wizard with craft wondrous item. Any ideas how I'd go about this without multiclassing?

Well, what exactly about the Magus does your Wizard want to emulate? Also what are your opposition schools? It could be a bit rough for you depending on if you made self-buffing spells or evocations opposed, in which case you'll need to take Opposition Research.

If you want the Magus' toughness in battle, you'll want to take Great Fortitude and Toughness feats.

With a low CMD, you are probably going to want to compensate with Defensive Combat Training.

If you are wanting to make a Wizard zipping around the battlefield blasting off damage, the good news is you can still do it, so long as you didn't make evocation or conjuration an opposition school. The bad news is that instead of Divination, Evocation school focus would help you more with admixture.

If you want to emulate the Magus' melee combat ability, you will probably fall short without multiclassing and jumping into Eldritch Knight. Fortunately since you are a divination specialist, you are practically guaranteed to go first in combat, which will let you get your buffs up.If you don't want to, here are some other thoughts:

Weapon Focus will be essential; if you have a bonded weapon, enhancing it up to +5 as feasible will help quite a bit, too.

And you can self buff with Haste (transmutation), Heroism (enchantment) and the like to further compensate for low BAB. There are plenty of spells you can use to debuff enemies as a wizard; never forget that Entangled gives a -2 to AC from Dex penalty, Fatigued gives -1, Exhausted gives -3,Stunned is -2&Dex bonus, and so on. Really anything that you can get double duty out of will help.

Additionally you can make yourself more accurate by getting to Greater Invisibility (illusion) at level 7 (+2 untyped bonus to attack rolls and ignore enemy dex mod to AC), which will serve you well offensively, defensively, and for utility, until you fight someone that can see you regardless. Speaking of utility, hopefully you didn't opposition illusion, since you can make good use of Mirror Image or Displacement to help yourself.

You can ask your GM if you can take Quicken Spell-like Ability at 11th level, which would let you swift action self buff with Diviner's Fortune for a scaling +5 bonus to your attacks, saves, and concentration checks, which would be limited to a few times a day, but helps you greatly with accuracy.

With craft wondrous item, you will be wanting to make items to boost your strength and constitution. Your CMD is also going to be pretty low if you want to be emulating the magus and operating in melee, so Knowledge is Power is probably going to be a discovery to consider.

Once you hit 12th level, craft yourself a Pale Green Prism Ioun Stone for +1 (competence) bonus to attack/saves/checks.

An Opalescent White Pyramid Ioun Stone will get you weapon proficiency with something martial, otherwise you're going to be using a quarterstaff.

If you are wanting to do melee touch attack spells, you might consider going for Lunge with your 13th level feat or just rely on Long Arm (transmutation).

Ultimately, you'll have to be clever, the combat wizard is always about choosing the right tool for the job and situation. Good luck!

The Exchange

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Mystic Theurge is a terrifically fun prestige class that is hard to pin down because there are so many fluid pieces to it. It definitely calls back to earlier D&D approaches to games, and may have lost a bit of luster due to a shift in the metagame.

Cleric gives such a flexible spell list that the prestige class enables a lot of ability to change your style of play from day to day, or even during the day. The fact you can still spontaneously convert spells to cure is useful, and having double the spell slots to prepare things means that while you could prepare the same number of spells a normal mage would, you can leave the others free to prep them later. Very much a swiss-army knife.

Wizard likewise gives you access to a very vast spell list, and more importantly the ability to scribe scrolls, which you can do for a lot more flexibility and utility during downtime. Additionally, because you can leave slots open to prepare later, so long as you have a few minutes, you can pull up something useful. Bonus points for the Wizard for Arcane Discovery: Fast Study, which means so long as you have a minute, you can prepare something. I also do not see why this does not affect your prep time for your divine class, as well. It does require you to take 5 levels in wizard first, though which either means you play straight wizard for 5, then go cleric 3 and delay start of mystic theurge a little (but also getting you access to 3rd level arcane spells at normal speed), or picking it up by continuing in wizard after taking mystic theurge levels.

With 2 hours you can scribe a 1st or 2nd level spell onto a scroll, and people often forget you can scribe more than one spell onto a scroll, which is useful for saving you actions on pulling and using them. It's also something you can pretty much do while doing your stint on watch, even going so far as to prep one spell into a remaining free slot with 15 minutes of time and then writing it into a scroll for 2 hours. It'll cost you a bit of money in materials (though your divine focus is reusable), but a nice way to convert any remaining slots into scrolls for you, or the party rogue, or other party spellcaster, or anyone with UMD, to hold onto.

A lot of people get caught up over the delayed spell levels, but that logic generally involves the assumption that the mystic theurge is the only mage in the party and revolves around certain opportunity costs, namely spell DC and delayed access to spell levels.

Spell DC ends up not being that much of a problem since you can prep in a higher spell slot (in either of your casting classes), which keeps lower level spells relying on DCs a bit more relevant later on, or you can simply choose not to focus on save DC reliant spells. Often times party equivalent CR encounters involve multiple lower CR monsters, so it isn't dead and done as far as spell DCs go.

Additionally, you can focus hard on one casting ability score (prioritizing INT on the Wizard over WIS on the Cleric, for example), which keeps your ability bonus to spell DC relevant, or attempt to split more evenly between the two, which generally results in more spells per day, but lower, more average spell DCs. A fun side effect of having both arcane and divine spells is that some feats like Spell Focus get more mileage, since divine spells are also tied to certain schools, so you can be a lot more precise with your spell feat tool selection.

One often overlooked bonus of Combined Spells is the line "The components of these spells do not change, but they otherwise follow the rules for the spellcasting class used to cast the spell." This means that you could prepare some potent Arcane spells on your Divine Caster's slots, and cast them following the rules for the divine caster class. Which means you can cast it in armor, and/or while wielding a shield (which is also easy to remove outside of combat, lowering the need for arcane armor training). In fact, a mystic theurge gets a lot of benefit from carrying a shield, which most arcane classes can't do. Obviously Mage Armor is a reliable buff you can set on yourself, too.

To expand on that and say that because you have so many spell slots, it is nice to be able to leave a few slots open to prepare for later, and also be able to use the cleric slots as batteries, since you can prep arcane spells (at a higher level, yes) in them which you can then use in combat while wearing armor, or even spontaneously convert to healing spells if need be. This leaves you with some different armor options, which makes things like the armored coat fun, since you can don/doff it quickly outside of combat if you need to cast an arcane spell.

At higher levels the mystic theurge is also a very effective counterspell mage, which can really lock down both arcane and divine casting bosses for practically the entire duration of a fight.

It is the ultimate generalist mage filling a support role, and also uniquely shines in parties with one other spellcaster who is a specialist, especially the 3/4 6th lvl spell casters. They often suffer from a limited number of spells per day or smaller number of spells known, which the mystic theurge can compensate for with their spellcasting and scroll creation.

Theurges make terrific magic item creators in general, from wands to staves, magical arms and armor, etc.

One potential problem is the feeling of lacking in feats, but with the number of feats out there in Pathfinder these days, I always find myself wishing I had more feats, no matter what class I play.

Falling behind on caster level generally hurts more, but as other posters have shown, there are several ways to deal with that - Multidisciplined, Bifurcated Mind, Magical Knack are all ways to approach it.

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At first I thought a straightforward Urban Druid-Balanced Scale of Abadar or even Cleric-Balanced Scale would work. Then I thought about Ranger (Urban Ranger) 10 + Balanced Scale and realized that a "young" Abadar has to go about making a vault, a museum, of all sorts of items. Which means going out from Axis on collection expeditions. So that is where the young adventurer Abadar came into mind. It's a bit of fun, probably more appropriate to playing in a party, but with a pretty epic goal already established from level one.

"Abby" Abadar
Level 1 Snapshot: Human Inquisitor (Sanctified Slayer, Urban Infiltrator) 1, Recovery Inquisition
STR: 12 DEX: 15 CON: 12 INT: 12 WIS: 18 CHA: 12
(Human +2 into Wis from 16) 25pt buy; for 20, drop Dex to 14 and Wis to 17)
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
Traits: Eye for Quality (Religion), Birthmark (Faith)
Notable Gear: Light Crossbow, Buckler, Dagger
Notable Spells: Divine Favor, Comprehend Languages
Skills: Diplomacy, Bluff, Know: Local, Know: Noble, Sense Motive, Perception, Disable Device, Survival

Spoiler:
At level 1 "Abby" Abadar is off on her adventure to collect copies of everything under creation in order to create the First Vault in Axis!
She is very adept at fishing out rumors or descriptions of such legendary things, thanks to Gifted Detective and her diplomacy score, which will get her enough information to perform a Focused Search for the legendary object.
Naturally she will use Guidance to help her in all her preparations and tracking. Read Magic/Detect Magic will help her find and decipher any magical items. Of course, while asking about for information on these artifacts, should she learn of any trouble in the local community, she will offer up her legal expertise and ability to help mediate any trouble or correct wrongdoing. Studied Target and Stern Gaze will help in a pinch, to make sure she is getting the truth, and will hopefully dissuade anyone from becoming violent, should a confrontation turn so. Studied Target also will help her combat ability, should it come to it.
Light Crossbow +2(+3) 1d8+1(+2) (studied bonus)
Level two will bring about more abilities with Detect Alignment to help locate magical artifacts quickly and now with Track and Focused Search, she is ready to truly start collecting!
Comprehend Languages will get her far in her wide search. Cure Light Wounds is not bad for helping others or herself. Divine Favor is her combat buff of choice.

Level 5 Snapshot: Inquisitor 5
STR: 12 DEX: 15 CON: 12 INT: 12 WIS: 19 CHA: 12
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Reload, Rapid Shot, Coordinated Shot, Precise Strike OR Covering Fire
Notable Gear: Judge's Breastplate, improve Wis/Dex with items and the usual increases to light crossbow and armor enhancement

Spoiler:
By this point her her career, "Abby" Abadar is a bit fed up with misinformation and the corruption she's seen in her travel. She has become very skilled with her crossbow and can handle herself in an alleyway brawl if forced to fall back on her knife.
She gets a lot of mileage out of studied target and Bane, letting her hit a lot harder with her crossbow or amplifying her damage with a dagger in melee. Discern Lies will help her not be fooled by corrupt officials or mislead with false information as she seeks out new treasures to add to the now-growing vault back in Axis.
Tongues now lets her discuss her dealings with anyone on the plane, though Voluminous Vocabulary may provide a more useful benefit due to the longer lasting timeframe.

8th Level Snapshot: Crossbow Mastery, Slayer Talent: Trapfinding
By 8th level she has become a master of spotting and disarming traps, whether they be guarding the fantastic objects she searches for, or are mere bandit traps waiting to snare travelers. Her ability to also locate an object or person with Locate Focus now comes truly into being.

Level 10 Snapshot: Inquisitor 10
STR: 12 DEX: 15 CON: 12 INT: 12 WIS: 20 CHA: 12
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Reload, Rapid Shot, Coordinated Shot, Precise Strike OR Covering Fire, Crossbow Mastery, Slayer Talent: Trapfinding, Enfilading Fire OR Outflank, Extra Slayer Talent: Ranger Combat Style: Improved Precise Shot

Spoiler:
Greater Invisibility lets her escape from most things, and if they are too persistent will let her exploit her sneak attack -errr, "precision" damage- for painful regrets with her light crossbow. It is also useful for investigations and fact-finding missions.
Divination may help her plan her next move to find the object she seeks.
Divine Power helps her truly flex her muscles in combat now should the need arise.
Mostly combat damage is Light Crossbow Rapid Shot with Bane, Divine Favor, Greater Invisibility stacks Sneak Attack damage. She should be able to handle her Vault-Collecting better than Indiana Jones by this point.

Level 12 Snapshot: Inquisitor 11, Balanced Scale of Abadar 1
STR: 12 DEX: 15 CON: 12 INT: 12 WIS: 21 CHA: 12
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Reload, Rapid Shot, Coordinated Shot, Precise Strike OR Covering Fire, Crossbow Mastery, Slayer Talent: Trapfinding, Enfilading Fire OR Outflank, Extra Slayer Talent: Ranger Combat Style: Improved Precise Shot, Extra Slayer Talent: Rogue Talent: Favored Terrain (Urban)

Spoiler:
The Vault is becoming a reality, thanks to all of her adventuring this far. Abadar's work is beginning to precede her now, though her fame is beginning to cause trouble. She uses "A Thousand Faces" to assume whatever form is most appropriate for the community in which she next travels, which is where the rumor that Abadar is a man has started to travel. That is little more than a distraction for her though, as there is no vault that can withstand her search!
Mechanically at this point, she has taken the appropriate prestige class "Divine Assessor" (Balanced Scale of Abadar).

Level 15 Snapshot: Inquisitor 11, Balanced Scale of Abadar 4
STR: 12 DEX: 15 CON: 12 INT: 12 WIS: 21 CHA: 12
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Reload, Rapid Shot, Coordinated Shot, Precise Strike OR Covering Fire, Crossbow Mastery, Slayer Talent: Trapfinding, Enfilading Fire OR Outflank, Extra Slayer Talent: Ranger Combat Style: Improved Precise Shot, Extra Slayer Talent: Rogue Talent: Favored Terrain (Urban), Extra Slayer Talent: Ranger Combat Style: Pinpoint Targeting, Divine Fighting Technique: Abadar's Crossbow.

Spoiler:
The Vault in Axis has added quite a few items now, enough that Abadar's link to it allows her to access some of these items as need be, with her "Access the Vault" ability. Dimensional space is something she is achieving greater mastery over, with "Bottomless Bag" and her mastery of speech is further enhanced by "Eloquent Bargainer".
Hallow now lets her start setting up locations for temples and more vaults. Geas/Quest is an appropriate way to help solve problems.

Level 17 Snapshot: Inquisitor 11, Balanced Scale of Abadar 6
STR: 12 DEX: 15 CON: 12 INT: 12 WIS: 22 CHA: 12

Spoiler:
Abadar's Vault has truly taken form! She can now teleport out of trouble whenever need be, or use it as a gateway to dimension door away/into some place. Level 6 spells come online as well, and with Measured Response she can guarantee the average damage which is pretty high (4-5 attacks with rapid shot/greater invisibility for bane+sneak attack with divine power as a buff). She can pull items out of the Vault if she needs to, as well.

Level 20 Snapshot: Inquisitor 14, Balanced Scale of Abadar 6
STR: 12 DEX: 16 CON: 12 INT: 12 WIS: 22 CHA: 12

Spoiler:
Greater Bane on her +5 Light Crossbow lets her hit 1d8+4d6, if she happens to have Greater Invisibility, she rapid shots Greater Bane for 1d8+4d6(greater bane)+4d6 (sneak attack)+5 (enhancement)+3(studied target) for 5 attacks;
Divine Power gives her +6 accuracy and +6 damage luck based, or another 30 damage = ~272.5 damage/round
note, this assume no other enhancements to her crossbow, like flaming/frost/holy/axiomatic
Legend Lore will round out the rest of her needs for tracking down items. Every week she can pull out a magic item of 9,500gp or nonmagical item of similar value out of the vault. 2 feats and an extra teamwork feat from levels 17-20 weren't accounted for, so they can be used to pick up something else.

Some different options: Druid (Urban Druid) 6, Balanced Scale of Abadar 6, then finish with more Druid.

Thoughts: A Thousand Faces is pretty ideal for a deity of communities/civilizations, as is getting an appropriate domain, the ability to assume the form of an eagle with wildshape later fits into Abadar's lore. Downside is that the iconic Gold Breastplate just can't be worn by a druid, which isn't terrible if just adding Glammered to some armor to make it look like it. Skill points are pretty hard to come by.

Another option: Ranger (Urban Ranger) 10, Balanced Scale of Abadar 6, finish with Ranger

Thoughts: More martial version that can do Rogue things in the party. Pretty weak spellcasting though, but can have a decent eagle companion or something. Certain skills like Appraise are missing until pretty late.

Shaman 5 Balanced Scale of Abadar 6 Shaman finish
Thoughts: A lot of nice abilities, especially the Lore/Slums spirits. This is potentially workable too, though skills and feats will be rough.

Somehow it just felt like the Inquisitor abilities all melded well into the concept of someone collecting everything into a vault all while righting wrongs and helping people in towns/cities along the way.

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It can work splendidly, but does require the GM and players to be aware of it.

The important thing is to make sure everyone still has their moments in the spotlight and character stories/arcs woven into the fabric of the story.
Note that just because a character may be the rightful ruler of a country doesn't give them immediate advantages over the others. Restoring the kingdom is the long term goal at the end of the campaign, after all, so just because one of the players is the "lost heir" doesn't innately give them special advantages.

My own experience in a year-long campaign as the player of the "lost heir" restoring her kingdom, whose birthright had been usurped, was to play as a full support character. Started as a Bard (Sandman), but ended up reclassing into a Cleric (Evangelist) after the party's close brush with the divine. While she certainly had good social skills, there was a lot of disguising and relying on the others to do investigating whenever the party was in towns controlled by the usurpers. The other party members were a former general of the court, now in exile after the coup (elf magus), a martial artist from the southern tribes who while continuing his mastery decided to help in exchange for the party having saved him from slavers (half-orc monk), the captain of the royal yacht on which the general had fled with the young heir during the coup (half-elf gunslinger) , and a prodigious young spy who had trained in tutelage under the spymaster of the court (human ninja).
My character focused on team-support in buffing/inspire courage (oratory, which made for great royalty themed speeches later). It is important, I think, to establish that the lost heir can't do everything alone, she needs to trust and rely on her friends/companions. While there is no need to go completely into a "damsel in distress" mode, it may be less "in your face" to have the party support role be filled by the lost heir character, as opposed to the front liner or master of arcane arts. It lets you act as more of an enabler, helping the rest of the party members be more heroic and do cool things, and creates a nice subconscious reciprocal feeling of balance ("they are doing this to help the heir, and the heir is doing this to help them").

Listening to others, asking for advice from your party members helps to play up their strengths too while passing around the spotlight. It also incidentally, being a good listener is a good trait of a ruler.

In terms of that long-term goal, the "lost heir" doesn't need to be terribly weaker than the other characters, but it makes sense for traits and feats to thematically work towards the goal. Traits like "Family Resemblance" offer a lot- offering a bonus in some situations and a complication in others. Taking the Leadership feat is also fantastic for showing character development, and is easily tweaked- we used it to help stat out various NPCs we had recruited/convinced to help us.

Ultimately it will rely on the players and group dynamic, but it can make for an epic game. We played ours for a year and it was the most memorable game we've played in the last 5.

The Exchange

One thing to consider is the variant multiclass rules. VMC Bard will get you Bardic Knowledge equal to your character level for the price of a few feats (I noticed you have her listed as Level 16, which means she would get most of the Bard benefits from VMC, including Lore Master). This would let you use any class, combination of classes, and/or prestige classes you want. This would let you choose something that synergizes more than Bard with INT.

Here are a few INT synergy ideas with VMC Bard:

I combined that with a Clone Master/Mindchemist Alchemist to play off a character who had been around for a long time. Mindchemist's "Perfect Recall" ability lets you add INT to knowledge checks twice. I don't care to dip classes too much, but a two level dip in Mindchemist would get you cognatogen and Perfect Recall along with alchemy.

An Investigator would be another alternative option to pick vmc bard with. You get your usual +1d6 inspiration on knowledge checks and a host of flavorful talents (Effortless Aid, Eidetic Recollection, Item Lore, etc). Empiricist Investigator is very INT-focused.

This might also be super fun with Tome Eater Occultist. Word Sense is a wonderfully thematic ability for a librarian character, and you are always lugging around scrolls/books. Plus the puns about devouring knowledge. Curator Occultist would be a different option, suitable for a character lugging around a ton of books all the time (if you can flavor them that way).

Since Loremaster's "Lore" ability stacks with Bardic Knowledge, a character (Say, a Wizard who gets Scribe Scroll for free) can go Wizard 7/Loremaster 10 for +13 to all knowledge checks with Lore (+5) and Bardic Knowledge from character level (+8).

Other prestige classes like Arcane Savant, Cyphermage, Pathfinder Chronicler, Divine Assessor (very cool abilities for a librarian/adventurer! I might try this with vmc bard/cloistered cleric), and Runeguard probably deserve a look.

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Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

Welcome to Paladin Thread #981236576438976345.3Q. This is about how Lycanthropes can potentially make Paladins fall.

So, Lycanthropes are usually people afflicted with a curse. One of the ways to "cure" it is through Wolfsbane, an alchemical item that grants a reroll on the save of Lycanthropy. Another thing I noted is that Wolfsbane is, in fact, a Poison, and that each dose that grants a reroll in fact causes ability score damage (I believe it's Constitution), which means enough damage would kill them.

I remembered reading a clause that states Paladins cannot (objectively) use Poison, as it is against their code of conduct, and made me realize that if a low level Paladin tried to cure a friend afflicted with Lycanthropy, that he would end up having to use Wolfsbane if he wished his friend to be free of that curse.

However, as I've stated prior, Wolfsbane is a Poison, which Paladins cannot use, and if he tried to have somebody use it on his behalf, it wouldn't be much different than if the Paladin did so himself. So, if a Paladin tried to use Wolfsbane on his friend in any manner (which isn't a guarantee that it would work), would that be grounds for falling, even if he had the best of intentions with its application? He'd actually be more in trouble with his Paladinhood for trying to save his life than by simply ending his curse-addled existence by the pointy end of his sword?

No, it wouldn't be grounds for falling, because he wouldn't use poison. He'd help his friend make an informed decision about his medical options, thanks to the fact he has ranks in Heal because why wouldn't he? Of course he will spend time in prayer with his deity, asking for guidance, as he considers all of the options available. That would be the lawful good thing to do. He knows that wolfsbane is a potential cure, but that it is a poison with risks associated with it. With his heal check and some asking around, he also probably knows that wolfsbane costs about 500gp, while a potion of remove curse costs 750gp with none of the dangers. He also tells his friend firmly that he cannot become a lycanthrope permanently, because they are evil, and even with the best of intentions, cannot control their actions.

He is honest, as a paladin should be, and so informs his friends of all of his potential options to the best of his ability. Then he tells his friend that he strongly recommends the remove curse potion as the safer (if more expensive) option; he is worried after his friend's health after all. He even offers to work to help cover the cost of the potion, because he is a good character willing to do charity to help those in need.

If his friend suggests he would rather try the wolfsbane, then the paladin will assent, because while his code states in no uncertain terms that he may not use poison, it also is clear that he must help those in need, and he most certainly will not oppose someone attempting to cure themselves of an evil curse. He naturally then volunteers to be by the bedside while his friend attempts his operation.

The paladin will not use or administer poison during the procedure, of course. The victim of lycanthropy has no normal symptoms when it is not a full moon, and so can go and purchase the wolfsbane and ingest it himself without difficulty - it requires merely eating or drinking. The paladin, however, is there during the procedure to Treat Poison with his heal check in order to stop his friend from hurting himself with the wolfsbane, which any mortal or deity of the lawful and good nature would affirm is NOT "using poison", but is, in fact, the exact opposite of it. His deity will support him in this, because the Paladin is "using a healer's kit" and/or "using antitoxin", and is chanting prayers to his deity to save the life of the friend throughout the process.

Hopefully his friend is cured, and with the paladin treating poison, should go on to recover nicely. If he continues to suffer, then I see a plot arc gift-wrapped for the GM as they seek out the money or doing the service in exchange for a cure.

The scenario I described above is how I think it would play out in a way that would be true to the paladin's code. A paladin who cut corners, did not examine all of his options and pushes a poison down his friend's throat may still find his deity displeased with his rashness. As a GM, I would probably not make him fall for this the first time, but it would be grounds for visitation by an angel or messenger to caution him to do what is right, and not what is expedient.

The Exchange

Malik Gyan Daumantas wrote:

So i came to the realization that unarmed warpriest is overall better then the sacred fist archtype for a few main reasons.

The first being how many more feats the base warpriest gets over sacred fist, making it a lot more flexible when it comes to builds.

Second is the fact that if you were worshiping irori you would get improved unarmed strike as a bonus feat anyway, making what you get from sacred fist redundant, in actuality all you're really doing is LOSING weapon focus

And the fact that it doesn't matter which one you take you aren't getting pummeling charge, which is basically the cornerstone of this class until level 12

So all the sacred fist really gets in return is an admittedly way better skill list. Standard monk AC bonus and Ki pool and the ability to brush off most fort saves, but I'm not convinced that it's worth what you lose in the long run

What do you think?

While you are not wrong that the base warpriest will have some more flexible [combat] feat options, I think they build pretty differently.

For starters, a normal Warpriest must choose a deity with the favored weapon: unarmed strike to get the favored weapon bonus, or spend a feat to grab another weapon focus, which means no unarmed strikes til level 3. Hardly ideal. Discounting homebrew, that leaves you with Irori or one of two empyreal lords to choose from. A sacred fist, on the other hand, can choose any deity while going unarmed, which gives it more flexibility when looking at Blessing options or for character backstory.

To me this is a big creative draw as it lets you do some fun things with the Crusader's Flurry feat and races that get weapon proficiency, like an Elf SF of cayden cailean with a rapier, or a dwarf SF of Torag with a warhammer, or a half-orc SF of rovagug with a waraxe, or tengu of Iomedae, or a half-elf with ancestral arms and [insert weapon you want to flurry with here + deity].

Losing the Weapon Focus isn't a big deal since you can pick it up for a feat anyway and probably will do so early on in your career.

Since warpriest is already really good at enhancing it's own attacks, you really aren't that far behind in the to-hit game. Sacred weapon has anemic round/lvl use for a swift action when you already have plentiful swift action options to choose from. It really doesn't get useful until higher levels when you have a better enhancement bonus and can flexibly choose an add-on magic effect, but by that point you can be doing the same with your spells.

The Sacred Fist gets a Ki pool, which makes feats like Ki Channel or Ascetic Style potentially interesting options. Crane style as always is exciting. I never would think about Kyton style, but a half-elf sacred fist could probably use it to good effect at higher levels. Aforementioned pummeling style, too. There are some ki-pool specific styles like Deadhand which ends up letting you inflict negative levels without saves against opponents, though they come online rather late. Magic items like a Ki Mat or Ring of Adept Maneuvers/Ki Mastery can give you some other little perks. The options the ki pool gives are pretty flexible in comparison, too- the movement speed is rather nice for mobiility and positioning (especially compared to a medium/heavy armor-wearing warpriest) and can even find some uses outside of combat (sacred fist is in general a far better scout than the standard warpriest thanks to the skills). An extra attack at your highest attack in a flurry is pretty nice, if situational, considering the amount of +damage buffs you can give yourself. Even the +4/+5 AC can be helpful in a pinch.

Taking Guided Hand could make for a very different style of SF Warpriest, letting you pump wisdom and giving you some more spellcasting options. Granted you could do that with a normal Warpriest, but Sacred Fist benefits a lot from wis synergy. A +wisdom item gives you +hit, +ac, +will save, +spells/day, +spell DC, +blessing DC, +fervor/day, +ki pool and +wis skills.
It also gives you some really nice synergy options for spells- you can use Fervor to swift-cast Owl's Wisdom for +2 to all of the aforementioned class features.

Obviously you still get access to Divine Favor, Magic Weapon/Greater, Smite Abomination (just cruel with a wis build and pummeling charge!) and everything else on the cleric list. Losing Sacred Weapon round/day is pretty fair, since you are swift-action heavy already- how many rounds of buffing do you really have?

Losing Sacred Armor hurts a bit more since you can potentially prep it before combat, but AC really shouldn't be behind anyway, especially when you have so many ways to double down on enhancing your AC or buffing it with spells. You could always take Craft Wondrous Item, too, unlike a normal monk.

Finally, switch-hitting flurrying shuriken is kind of fun, if you are willing to burn the feats for ascetic style. Even if you aren't, Destruction Blessing plus Divine Favor/your other buffs is still amusing.

tldr; it gives some flavorful options and has terrific wisdom synergy. A lot you could replicate with either enlightened paladin or the normal warpriest, but it does occupy the gap between the two. I tend to think of the normal warpriest as being split between STR, DEX, CON and WIS, while Sacred Fist can sort of get away with just DEX, CON, and WIS. Feat starved you will be, but honestly, with the number of feats out in pathfinder now, I never feel feat-satisfied with any class.

The Exchange

Depends on how late game you want to go.
An Arcanist with martial dip into Arcane Archer with the Overwatch Style line will get you decent counterspelling early and transition into completely shutting down divine (or any spellcasting, really).

Protection against good/evil and such are obviously good.

Envoy of Balance is probably the most thematic prestige class you could go with paizo material. I think it'd be a fun class for a Mystic Theurge, except, well, mystic theurge has some problems.

You could go the full Animist route with divine, viewing them as simply more powerful "spirits" - the Animist Shaman isn't bad thematically. A druid would let you play with the concept, scoffing that since you also have nature's powers, that you are similarly "divine" ("everyone is divine, thus no-one is!").

Antipaladin would be pretty effective and thematic.

Bloodrager (untouchable rager) or the similar superstitious barbarian.

For a nonmagical way, a Ranger/Horizon Walker will give you a lot of boons towards outsiders if you pick the planes you want to focus against (letting you choose for your campaign as appropriate), plus a bit of favored enemy. You could go Slayer instead for a more flexible study "favored enemy".

Apart from Iron Will as feats go, Divine Defiance, Divine Assault, Atheist Abjurations are pretty appropriate. Divine Deception maybe, depending on what you do.
If you do go Witch with Hex, Seeds of Doubt is a terrific feat for you to aim for.

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I played an arcane archer in my last IRL game, and ended up doing long range support, sniping, cover fire most of the time.

Character was a Half-elf Fighter (Archer) 5, Wizard (Abjurer) 2, Arcane Archer 10.
Although said character entered into play at level 13 as a replacement for my last (dead) character, I was pretty surprised by the amount of firepower and support sniping you can do. A longbow with Distance (free with Arcane Archer 5) lets you really lay down the pain from a range. The longbow's range increment jumps to 220/440(-2)/660(-4)/880(-6)/1100(-8)/1320(-10)/1540(-12)/1760(-14)/1980(-16 )/2200(-18) feet.

With perception, the DC is +1/10 feet to spot you, so even at the max range of your first increment (220 feet away), they have a +22 DC, which effectively cancels out the penalty you have on your stealth check to hide again after shooting. They'll never know what hit them at 440 feet, and that -2 to your accuracy is easily countered by basically being invisible to your target (gains a +2 bonus on attack rolls against sighted opponents, and ignores its opponents' Dexterity bonuses to AC (if any).)

A lot of the spells help you really snipe; invisibility or greater invisibility helps as does see invisibility or true sight and other divination spells let you get 'eyes' on the target far away. You can put a fireball on your arrow and fire it 2200ft away as artillery support if you true shot the turn before (or grab Far Shot and Bullseye Shot for only -5 penalty for a 670 meter shot).

If you wanted to be even 'sneakier' you could try using Slayer (Sniper) Levels instead of the Fighter ones, or Ranger (I did it before we adopted the new classes). You're only really down 1 BAB from a full martial class because of the wizard levels, so accuracy is no problem.

There were some suggestions for a magus build, which maybe could come online a bit sooner. The alchemist one sounds like fun. If I was going to do a ninja or a rogue 'sniper' I would probably go into Arcane Trickster.

The Exchange

RainyDayNinja wrote:
Keep in mind that you get a ridiculously small phrenic pool, and no psychic discipline to regain points. So at level 4, that Overpowering Mind is a 1/day +1 to the DC of a single spell. Until level 8, Undercast Surge is a 1/day power too. I'm giving up a talent for that? I admit Mindshield is probably the best; I could blow all my points to hand out +2 to Will saves when I cast haste, but it's still not much.

It's true that you don't have many points to spend. It's not a super strong ability. I wouldn't take the expanded phrenic pool talent, either. As you said, the one point cost abilities are probably better since the pool is so small. Mindshield is good for buffing allies if that's how you're using your spells. Possibly Relentless Casting at higher levels for it's spell penetration value.

The ability your phrenic pool gives is situational, but honestly most of the Investigator talent options are in a similar category of situational usefulness.

Remember you're giving up the [3rd] level talent, which limits the selection of what talents you could select at that level.

What were you going to choose otherwise? Of the alchemist discoveries, only Mutagen would be better, and it's a one time/day ability that has no progression to more than once a day.
If you absolutely wanted mutagen though, you could take one level of Alchemist to get it along with bombs/splash weapon int damage, and a few extracts and brew potion.

I'm not impressed with the rogue talent options.

I agree that there are a couple of investigator talents that you could a take that would be good: Effortless Aid, Expanded Inspiration, Underworld Inspiration or Quick Study*.
However, it's not like you can't take those at later levels or with feats, though, and some of them you possibly would want to.

*Honestly with the 'jedi build' theme above, Snake Style is an iconic ability, but it also serves to make use of the swift action economy as immediate actions, which doesn't pair well with Quick Study, especially in the first round combat round.
Swift action: activate snake style, Move action to position or study, standard action cast buff spell on self or party (possibly phrenic pool to buff further if necessary?). Or do the standard action to buff and then move action to set up for flank or something.

If you compare just the Phrenic Pool/Amplification to the one talent, it's poor at level 3. But it does scale in usefulness over the course of the game, a bit.

For spells, you have a lot of options - more than the investigator does. The 0th lvl 'knacks' stand out, especially. Detect Magic, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, Telekinetic Projectile, Read Magic, Dancing Lights, Ghost Sound, Message... All of these are from good to great, especially since you're probably the trapfinder or scout of the party.

The other spells you choose depend on the campaign. If there is going to be a lot of occult adventures related content, then check out the new spells would be good. Otherwise you pretty much have a lot of the normal bard spells, whether you want to be a buff/control/etc.

I like telekinetic maneuver as a good way to help your melee, and like I said above, it's better than several of the investigator talents. You could do some decent crowd control.

There's nice synergy between your Studied Target rounds lasting off of INT, and your Spells per day/DCs. In a way, pretty similar to the Bard's inspire courage charisma/spell dc synergy.

You ask what your bread and butter spells would be, but what were your bread and butter investigator extracts you used before?

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Scavion wrote:

Folks are kinda uncreative.

An unarmored sword Master has a ton of implied flavor. Nothing listed here really captures that.

DR doesnt reflect it well since the swordmaster is more about parrying and dodging blows rather than simply eating it.

Character concepts that simply pour on the Ac Boosts without any features to truly exemplify the sword master's art fail the concept in my belief.

A swashbuckler is probably the closest analogy but too locked into it's flavor of charm and style. A sword master is simply the master of his form of combat. Charisma is/should be unimportant to him.

Secret Wizard wrote:
Ah, yes, I forgot about a The Great Imagination Scarcity common in tabletop gaming.

Why don't you just use creativity/roleplay your "HP" as being your ability to deftly avoid lethal blows by deflecting them with your sword? It's your 'vitality pool' or 'stamina pool' or 'sword expertise pool' and you spend the points when someone is attempting to hit you and you block it with your weapon? It's not like mechanically taking HP damage is you getting black eyes or cut to ribbons. If you want it to have some 'gritty martial' nature, then maybe that opponent's desperate attack lands a graze on your face, you acknowledge your enemy's skill with a smile and a "not good enough" before masterfully landing a decisive blow ('power attack') and taking him down with all the grace and speed as your favorite swordsman.

DR can absolutely be creatively described as you turning blows into grazes/misses, especially with the roleplay.

I mean, if an ogre hits you for 30 hp, you can choose to roleplay it as that ogre is clubbing you silly in a looney tunes style as cartoon stars float over your head for a few seconds. Or you can roleplay it as you sidestepping as blow hits the ground with a burst of speed and honed reflexes. Mechanically it's not like that 30 hp actually negated your ability to act heroically, unless of course it drops you to zero.

Those 'cure spells' are helping you recharge tired muscles or re-energize, they aren't closing wounds because you didn't a hit. Maybe just some scratches and bruises, but those are merely flesh wounds, and a veteran swordsman shrugs them off easily enough.

For the unarmored weapon master, the danger on the battlefield is fatigue, the moments when your body no longer obeys, when your reflexes slow, and the fine honed edge of your ability is blunted by mortality.

With creativity you can just roleplay your armor as basically looking like your favorite coat, kimono, or normal clothes. The only reason it's an issue is encumbrance or some devious type thinking you're an easy mark by mistake. The first of these 'problems' is laughable if you're a STR build, and really not an issue if you get a handy haversack later, or muleback cords, or just don't dump your STR score. The second one is just a roleplay issue of the GM/other players - the devious type who would think twice about attacking a guy in armor is the same type that would cower while seeing the steely, deliberate walk of a veteran swordsman, no matter what he was wearing. Or perhaps you wear a sash or style emblematic of your 'school' or background (or kilt, or hairstyle, or tattoo, or whatever) that clues people in.

If you worried a lot about what others who aren't 'creative' enough to roleplay with your desired style, just get the Endurance feat so you can sleep in your 'clothes' and maybe get a glammered bonus.

If you're looking for other in game mechanics, have you thought about some of the ways you could emulate the ability with feats and skills?

A high sense motive with Unarmed Strike+Snake Style lets you attempt to 'avoid' or 'deflect' or 'parry' (or however you want to fluff the enemy missing) an attack as an immediate action each round. It's pretty iconic and easy to get by third level with any 'martial' class.

Other feats like Combat Expertise + Threatening Defender seems appropriate, and sets you up for taking your improved disarm/sunder/whatever other tricks you want your swordsman to use. Shield of Swings is an alternative. Dodge is similarly iconic, especially if getting Canny Defense is a goal - you can always go into Duelist.

Fighter or a Slayer are both martial classes that could do it. Swashbuckler can do it, too. A Daring champion cavalier with the right orders has a good set, too. Treat Charisma as your warrior spirit, and your steely resolve and masterful skill will strike fear into your enemies when you show off your prowess with dazzling display or intimidate.

The Exchange

Denorisn wrote:

The archetype on paper looks all around better flavor and power wise for an investigator, at least to me. Sure, you lose access to brew potion, Mutagen for combat, and the wide variety of buff and polymorph spells of an alchemist, but what you gain in my eyes is ultimately worth it.

You gain so much versatility from the psychic spell list. Rather than just being able to buff, deal melee damage, or skillmonkey, you can now do all of that AND gain crowd control spells, damaging spells, better divination tools, etc. Plus you qualify for occult skill unlocks.

Psychic detective is basically what the class should have been at launch, and I really want to play it in PFS or a new campaign soon.

Just a small note, you don't have access to brew potion as an investigator.

The Psychic Detective loses the +level competence bonus on craft:alchemy checks, but if you still really wanted to create alchemical items quickly as a Psychic Detective, you can always take the Craft: Skill Unlock with Signature Skill feat.

I agree with everything else Denorisn said. Plus, investigators had to take the infusion talent to buff allies, too.

To expand on the question about the spell list:

You cast like the Psychic and have access to the Psychic's spell list (+some extra spells for free). In short, you cast a lot like a bard. The phrenetic amplification you get could boost your offensive or defensive abilities depending on how you want to use it.

For the phrenetic amplification:
*Undercast Surge seems pretty nice at a glance. It would let you spend some of your phrenetic pool to use lower level spell slots to cast an undercast spell, and then advance it to normal strength. If you want to do some control or support:

*Overpowering Mind is good to boost your spell will save DCs for any of your enchantments like dominate person or hold monster or illusions or possessions.

*Mindshield is a good way to up the will saves of a martial friend(s) when you're buffing them with say, haste.

For spells instead of extracts, not only do you have spontaneous casting, but you can summon monsters now to give flanking for yourself or your allies, too. Or use disintegrate.

Telekinetic maneuver as a spell basically replaces several of the Investigator Talents (Toppling Strike, Stealing Strike, Repositioning Strike), which means losing the Level 3 Talent for Phrenetic Meddler is an easy tradeoff, honestly.

I haven't really tested either too much, but the archaeologist bard may be an interesting comparison in terms of role. I'm really thinking the Psychic Detective outscores the Archaeologist Bard in the skill monkey/support role. But I'm kind of curious how they match up in depth.

The Exchange

It looks like the best way to make a very Jedi-like character, honestly. Before I was using Inquisitor with Two-World Magic to grab Mage Hand for it.

But there are some really great synergies here. The Empathy Talent (5th lvl) + Snake Style (3rd lvl feat) + Expanded Inspiration (5th lvl feat bonus talent) is a very powerful dodge.

Honestly I think the psychic spellcasting helps a lot for the early levels of investigator, which is kind of lacking until you get studied combat/strike at 4th. It is very focused on a more social campaign, I wouldn't try in a dungeon crawl, but you do have your normal trapfinding things.

Max Sense Motive, Perception, Acrobatics*, Diplomacy for the core 'jedi' like abilities.
Then you can grab Use Magic Device, Spellcraft, Disable Device or whatever else you need.

*You lose acrobatics as a class skill, but still probably want 3 ranks anyway for fighting defensively/full defensive boost and to qualify for snake style. Maxing might be unnecessary, but I guess it might be fun to take a trait to get it back as a class skill if going for a 'jedi-like' playstyle.

Losing alchemy means you can't create alchemical things (but it's not like it's an alchemist who has brew potion and such, so I've rarely found it incredible). Remember you can always take Craft(Alchemy) anyway if you want, you just won't be 'as fast' at making things.

You also qualify for the Occult Skill Unlocks (Prognostication for Sense Motive, Read Aura for Perception,You don't need to see his identification Hypnotism for Diplomacy).

The Exchange

Genuine wrote:

Two things: First, Arcane Strike will not work with a mind blade. You are a psychic caster, not an arcane striker.

Second, although you can manifest a two handed weapon with your mind blade power, there is no indication that you can still use spell combat while wielding a two handed weapon. At level seven you can manifest two weapons (not a two handed weapon) and use spell combat normally. Otherwise two handed weapons are just as bad for a mindblade as they are for any other Magus.

Good point about Arcane Strike, totally forgot. I'll have to change what I just typed up!

At level seven you can manifest two weapons or a double weapon (and you can manifest a two-handed weapon at level 1, for three points).

For two-handed weapon, you get the ability at Level 13 under dual manifest to use spell combat while wielding a two-handed weapon.

Gisher wrote:


Now that the AC penalty for Risky Striker scales, I'm not so sure it is a great idea.

I am not convinced it's a good idea, either. However, with my theme of defensive spells to make up for the light armor AC, the Magus does get things like Mirror Image, Displacement and Greater Invisibility, which can make sacrificing the AC for Damage potentially a decent alternative to power attack's sacrificing of accuracy. However, the argument certainly can be made in the opposite way, that you can buff the accuracy to reduce the power attack penalty.

I feel like you're solving two birds with one stone (you still have to deal with the low AC with magic if you're power attacking). However, I don't remember how the new Risky Striker works- if it's limited by the type of weapon or not.

The Exchange

For a first level feat, I'd probably go with Arcane Strike or Combat Casting.

Combat casting will probably be extremely useful until you get the ability to spell combat with a two-handed weapon (level 13), when you can stand back and poke things with an enlarge person+reach weapon.

Arcane strike seems like a nice way to shore up damage without sacrificing your attack bonus. However, I think swift action economy will be extremely important for the Mindblade, due to your arcane pool points and especially once you hit 8th level and can manifest a psychic weapon with a swift action.

I think there are good reasons for both. Your weapon's scaling enhancement bonus is good (+2 weapon at level 3), so the extra damage from Arcane Strike isn't that sorely needed. However, I think setting up for gloves of Arcane Striking could make for a fun build. Getting Helpful (Halfling) trait makes the gloves even better.

Similarly, combat casting seems like it'll be needed in tight spots. This is probably anecdotal to the way campaigns I'm in have been, but I almost can't imagine playing a spellcaster without Uncanny Concentration, and considering that it'll remove a lot of potential concentration checks for you, it seems pretty good for a psychic spell caster.

Some other interesting things about the versatility of the Mindblade- you can dismiss your psychic blade as a free action (which returns the points you have invested in it), though manifesting it is a standard action until level 8. Level 13 lets you manifest two weapons with the same action, which could lead to, again, some nice versatility - using a two-handed weapon when closing in, and then switching to two-weapon fighting + spell combat when you can make your full attack.

For level 1, a 14 STR on a halfling or gnome isn't too bad. Your attack bonus will be +2(Str)+1(Size)+1(Weapon Enhancement) for a +4 to hit, and if you're manifesting a 2-handed weapon (lucerne hammer or greatsword?) you are looking at 1d10+3(str)+1(weapon enhancement).
Arcane Strike will give another 1 damage, for 1d10+5 at a +4 to hit. Your weapon is already magical for purposes of damage reduction, too.

With a one-handed weapon (like a longsword or a battleaxe), 1d6+3(str)+1(weapon enhancement)+1(arcane strike) for 1d6+5, which is better than a medium sized Dex magus with his scimitar at the same level (dervish dance comes online at level 3). Fencing grace requires 3 feats, so doesn't come online until level 3 for humans or later for everyone else.

Combat Reflexes pairs nicely with the +2 reach weapon you'll be able to manifest, and uses that dex bonus to help. It'll up your action economy, too. You could get some really good synergy between Combat Reflexes, Bodyguard (at 5th) and gloves of Arcane Striking + Helpful (Halfling) trait to support your allies.

5th or 7th level feat: Two-Weapon Fighting (you can manifest a double weapon or two weapons at 7th- I guess you COULD carry a normal weapon and do this as soon as level 3 with one normal weapon and your manifested one.

If you do want to use Two-Weapon Fighting at a lower level, carrying a normal weapon lets you combine it with your psychic weapon, and if you want to Spell Combat/Spellstrike, you can dismiss your psychic weapon as a free action and use the normal weapon in conjunction with spell combat/spell strike. In which case, it makes sense to have your normal weapon be a one handed, and manifest a light weapon for your off hand.

Dealing with psychic spellcasting and concentration:
Basically your spells have [emotion] and/or [thought] descriptors.
[emotion] = somatic component, [thought] = verbal component. The spells that require a [thought] component are the ones that give you a -10 penalty for concentration checks. Unfortunately, things like Shocking Grasp have a verbal component, and therefore will fall under this umbrella.

Note: You can spend a move action focusing to make the concentration check at the normal DC. However, does that move action provoke? It doesn't say, but there's a good argument that it's 'distracting' and therefore provokes an AoO. Anyway, because Spell Combat is a full-round action, it won't help you cast defensively for a Spell Combat combination.

Like all spell casting, you'll provoke an AoO if you don't try to cast defensively, and if you get hit, then you're looking at an even worse concentration check to make.

The DCs for casting defensively are +10 (for your verbal/thought components), which gives you a DC range of 27-37. That's pretty dire, especially at low levels.

You'll have your Caster level (1-20) + your INT score. When a magus is doing spell combat and casting defensively, you can take an attack roll penalty up to your INT modifier and add it to your concentration check.

Combat Casting: +4 on your concentration checks when grappled or casting defensively.
Uncanny Concentration: You don't have to worry about making concentration checks in weather/vigorous motion such as while riding a mount among other things, which effectively negates that -10 penalty in almost all other circumstances. It gives a +2 bonus to other concentration checks, which brings you up to a +6 bonus on your defensive casting check.

The Concentrate magus arcana lets you reroll a failed concentration check with a +4 bonus once per day.

Gloves of elvenkind will give a +5 bonus casting defensively.

There are some spells like Illusion of Calm which circumvents the problem by making you not provoke when you cast a spell, so you don't have to cast defensively.

Unfortunately, as a halfling or gnome, enlarge person doesn't really help with this like it would by increasing a medium creature's reach to large. Longarm is a spell you could use to get reach, however.

Lunge is a feat you could get at level 8, which could help with two-weapon fighting and/or spell combat.

Like imbicatus said above, it's probably better to avoid having to make the checks, using your 5 foot steps. Unfortunately you can't spell combat with a two-handed weapon until level 13, but you can spellstrike to deliver with a two-handed melee weapon from level 2.

I still think it's probably better to use your limited spell slots to be getting/giving buffs/defensive abilities and still hold the trump card like a shocking grasp with spontaneous casting if you need to do some more damage.

Remember though that spontaneous casting with metamagic (intensified or otherwise) increases the spell casting time to a full-round action, which means you can't do the normal Spell combat+intensified shocking grasp that a magus can. That's why I'm not really recommending the magical lineage/intensified route.

Frostbite is probably the better 'attack' spell since it lasts for several attacks, and if you go two-weapon fighting you can conceivably deliver a few of them with spellstrike fairly quickly.

Overall, the Mindblade feels like it sacrifices the immediate damage spike for much better endurance and some weapon flexibility.
Your weapon enhancement lasts all day, so you have a +2 reach weapon at level 3, while a normal magus can only enhance for a few minutes.

The Exchange

1) I think that both of them can be good. Halfling has some big points in it's favor:
a) Underfoot racial trait goes well with Risky Striker, and helps AC since you're giving up medium/heavy armor.
e) Fleet of Foot will get you 30 ft movement speed.
i) Risky Striker is a nice way to get damage when not using spell combat
o) Favored Class is 1/6 of a new arcana, which is probably better than some of the selections gnome offers (and some of the better weapon enhancements like holy or energy or bane you can get access with arcana)
u) +2 to Dex instead of Con - this is +1 AC/CMD/reflex save over the gnome, at the expense of 1-20 hp and +1 fortitude save.

2) I would disagree with a weapon finesse build. Everything about Mindblade suggests a STR build.
A) The flexibility of manifesting a light, one-handed, or two-handed (and eventually two or a double weapon) means you can set yourself for the battle as you need to. You can't add the Agile property to your weapon with the arcane pool, which means you're severely limiting yourself to what weapons you want to manifest in order to try to get your dex bonus.
Remember that eventually you will be able to do spell combat while two-weapon fighting or wielding a weapon two-handed, which opens up some exciting options: A charging Lance spellstrike (casting the spell and then delivering it with the weapon attack on a charge in the following round), or spell combat with a reach polearm(!).
A double weapon that you can two-hand when moving into position and then switch to two-weapon fighting seems a decent option. If you take the "Throwing Magus" arcana you can use two-weapon fighting to make some thrown weapon attacks, though I'm not sure if you can deliver touch spells in that way. Regardless, throwing will be strength based again for your damage.

I'd probably try to start with a 14 STR, remembering that as a Magus you can enlarge person/bulls strength yourself to get around the early game hurdle.

3) Combat Casting seems to be the first and obvious choice of feats to help with the Concentration penalties. Uncanny Concentration is probably a really good feat to consider as a follow up, as it will neutralize a lot of the distraction types that cause a problem for you and stack with combat casting for a +6 bonus on concentration checks.
There's a magus arcana called Concentration which lets you reroll a failed concentration check 1/day, too.
Remember as a Magus with Spell Combat that you can sacrifice a certain amount of accuracy to get a bonus on concentration checks - that has good synergy with the Arcane Accuracy arcana to regain the lost accuracy by spending arcane points.

4) My first thought is something like this, for a halfling 20point buy: STR: 14 DEX: 16 CON: 12 INT: 15 WIS: 10 CHA: 9.
You could go for a higher INT for spell DCs, but if you're wanting to spell dc, Gnome is the better option for the effectively free +1 DC to illusion spells/necromancy (with fell magic alternative racial trait). I think I would rely on mostly casting buffs/damage spells with limited saving throws with your spells, however. You get Haste, Enlarge/reduce person, Bulls Strength, etc.

With the lower amount of spells/day, you will have to be more opportunistic with your spellstriking, which makes multi-round combat buffs probably a better choice. As a spontaneous caster you can make the calls on the fly, which is a benefit a normal magus can't.

Damage options can be any combination of Arcane Strike, Power Attack, or possibly including Risky Striker for the halfling. Shocking Grasp with spellstrike is popular as a magus; Two-Weapon Fighting like mentioned above seems useful.
A Mounted Combat build seems possible, but you'll have to invest in some of the Mounted Combat feats (and keeping your mount alive may prove a fun minigame). It doesn't fully come online til later in the game.

Defense you can handle with spells like Shield/Blur/displacement/mirror image/invisibility (and darkness if a gnome). If you go with manifesting a reach weapon, you might be able to stand behind a party member with better AC than yours.

5) I haven't looked at the psychic spells too much. Gnome probably can pick up a few more illusion 'spells' this way that might be useful.

The Exchange

BadBird wrote:

I went on a 'classical hero' building bender a while ago...

The Guide Ranger Archetype - with or without the Skirmisher Archetype thrown on as well - is very effective for a classical hero.

Guide replaces most of the nature stuff and Favored Enemy with a 'Smite Evil' kind of effect, some 'lead your allies' type stuff, and a once-per-day thing at 11 called 'Inspired Moment' that really lives up to it's name.

If you don't want spells, the Skirmisher's Hunter's Tricks are really powerful in and out of combat for all sorts of things.

It all comes together with a medium armor, two-weapon or archery setup that's perfect for classical themes like sword and shield.

You can also dip a level of Barbarian or Kata Master of Many Styles Monk or Swashbuckler or whatever else you want to add powerful abilities in to fit your theme.

This is a really neat idea. I never thought about it in this way, but I can see it now. I want to try this now on the next character I play. Thanks for the tip!

The Exchange

I'd probably use Fighter (Phalanx Soldier) 3, Paladin (Sacred Shield) X and Paladin (Holy Tactician) leaders for a hoplite (especially spartan). Of course grab Teamwork feats like Shield Wall.
No fear, no retreat. Pray to your patron deity for protection, or reach out to Athena or Ares.

Thanks to the fighter levels could even take Combat Reflexes + Bodyguard to really make a stand by your fellow citizens. If you can fit in Improved Shield Bash, even better.

Make sure you have a few shepherd 'barbarians' with slings and javelins, or go grab some of those cretan rangers (toxophilites).

Honestly just replace the longspear with the gladius +javelin/pilum and the heavy shield with a tower shield, and the above kind of works for the roman flavored.

Paladin seems pretty well flavored for the favored by the gods motif. Unless you are going Alexander the Great and instead are a lance Cavalier. Though I guess a mounted paladin would work then, too.

Having seen many greek and roman statues, I think the points spent in charisma are appropriate.

The Exchange

Create Mr. Pitt and Fruian Thistlefoot: Thanks for the input! The level 3 start has made it a bit of squeeze to try to stretch as much as I am thinking I might have to.

The Cleric (Evangelist) archetype was what I ended up re-classing to in the last campaign we played in this world setting. Was playing the dispossessed noble reclaiming her kingdom. She's now 50 years older and a potential guest appearance NPC, happy monarch ruling over a neighboring territory.

The evangelist cleric was superb, and honestly really great buffing/debuffing later in the campaign while keeping all of the command/robin hood noble feeling I was roleplaying. As I've already played it once, I'm really hoping to try something different mechanically, even if for a similar role.

The Exchange

Thank you everyone for the feedback!

fizzlenubbs!!: Alchemist does sound like an awesome choice, thanks for the breakdown. The flexibility to stay at a range with bombs or a crossbow, but also jump into melee seems great. The Chirurgeon archetype especially looks like it could do well. I don't know about the healing bombs, but getting that to work seems essential. I assume it lets you draw a potion as part of the action to use it (since it lets you combine the bomb it with an extract). Because it just combines with a cure spell/potion, the healing seems a bit lackluster (but if allies are nearby they'll get a little bit, which is good). Seems like a bit of an expensive channel energy, but at the same time, for an emergency use it's a good option to have.

Throw anything also could be amusing, since we have a certain amount of militia equipment that I won't have proficiency with...except as an improvised ranged weapon. I like the brew potion and alchemy as options to get a lot of flexibility and play up the roleplaying. Chirurgeon also sets up for a really nice Level 5: Signature Skill: Heal feat which knocks out any concern for out of combat healing.
My main concern with the alchemist is the action economy for buffing the rest of the party. Debuffing bombs look nice, especially for combat opening, but otherwise it looks like the rest of the team will have to spend their opening round drinking passed around infusions. And for the melee team, that puts them at a bit of a backfoot on initiative/losing charge/etc.
Does a potion of haste (or infusion-extract of haste) only target the drinker? Or does it cast from their location? It may not be a make-or-break by itself, but that means a lot more resources expended to buff the party...

Greylurker: Interesting... a teamwork focused cavalier is something I hadn't even considered! With the inquisitor also getting some teamwork feats, and the close-knit nature of the group, that would be fun style to make use of. I wonder if I could fit it into a Cavalier +Bard into Battle Herald... Alternatively add a little cleric to make a Holy Vindicator. But honestly our Inquisitor player is more playing as the party leader, so I'd have to figure out a way to do it without stealing his thunder.

Arachnofiend: I was worried that I would have to go Cleric again, originally. I haven't played a shaman yet, but that Lore Spirit ability looks rather strong as a way of shoring up the spell list. It sounds better as a Wandering spirit though. Battle Spirit's Hampering Hex + Evil Eye + Chant looks like a pretty strong set of hex debuffs on a target, and the Battle Ward seems like it can be a first thing in the morning pre-buff. I like that the shaman is sturdier than the witch in combat with armor/d8 hp, that'd make the 30 foot range of most of the hexes easier to manage.

Casual Viking: The animist archetype was the very first thing that caught my eye when I looked at the shaman class. Thematically it's very cool, and similar to the Herb Witch's remedies as a really fun way to clear conditions. I'll definitely investigate it some more, especially with the aforementioned Lore Spirit.

Fruian Thistlefoot: Slumber's great, and definitely adds to the list of compelling shaman abilities. With the witch I've generally found it to be a bit boring, but my character this time might have the right kind of personality to prefer using it over some of the other hexes.

mourge40k: Halfling cavalier, like the other suggested cavalier, does leave me worried about the healing capability. It's the emergency in-combat healing/condition clearing that has me concerned. Out of combat we can always manage to patch people up. I can already say with certainty that the Ranger won't be healing people (physically can't use wands), and while the Inquisitor can help cover with some curing, I know he's going Sword+Board which is going to make the hand-juggling difficult, doubly-so while engaged in combat.
I'll be honest, I didn't even think of the oracle, and that Spirit Guide + spontaneous casting sounds fantastic. I'll look into it.

The Exchange

Hello! My local group is wrapping up the end of our heroic campaign (we're all Level 18) soon, and with it comes the exciting prospects of the new campaign another one of the players will run.

That said, there are some circumstances conspiring that have given me a challenge which I've been struggling with for the last week, and finally thought I would turn to the creative and knowledgeable message board community for some advice.

The Background:
I tend to play support role characters, generally some kind of Arm or Anvil in combat, and this time it seems like it will be the same. I am moving to the other side of the world soon, so I'll be joining in by Skype to the sessions when possible, but we've discussed already that should time schedules not match up on occasion, that my character can be NPC'd for the party. Since this time Leadership/cohorts/etc are not allowed, it won't be an extra burden for the GM to use the character. I do, however, want to make the general playstyle of the character simple enough for the GM to manage in that situation.

In the last two games I've played a charming robin hoodette Bard turned into Cleric (Evangelist), and then an Arcane Trickster who died and was replaced by a vehemently anti-necromancer Arcane Archer. I was hoping to play a not-so-magic based character this time (especially since with our high level game I am a bit burned out of all of the caster-y things).

About the Campaign: :

It is set in a homebrew world we have been playing in, with the player characters as orphans around the age of 5, witnessing an event that hints at their future fates (ie, background/explaining why they will go on to become what class/etc). Then it snapshots to their reunion in their early teens after having been separated, and their decision to join the local militia in order to do service to earn their citizenship right in the country.
The game will take off in their late teens/early twenties (character Level 3), and will likely go until Level 13-14 and see them grow up.

The campaign world setting is a living world - we're starting effectively 50 years after the end of the previous game this GM ran (the campaign before the one we just are finishing) and fleshing out a neighboring region.

Although we're starting "in the militia", we're definitely rising from humble roots. It feels a little like a Fire Emblem game, but our region is a bit Age of Sail technology wise, with guns being decidedly less common and in the early firearms set of rules.

The other players are making:
A melee barbarian, A natural attack ranger (maybe guide archetype), and a sword+board inquisitor (who will be our 'party leader').

Obviously we're missing out on a lot of the Arm + Anvil aspects. It also means we have 3 melee, so either I go melee/switch hit and get the GM to just design encounters around that, or play another ranged character. (Or GM is fine at encounter design/shaping around us, so probably fine with me doing either).

A note on healing:
Two games ago I played the Bard and reclassed into a Cleric(Evangelist) because wand of cure light wounds was not doing enough for us for us for in combat healing/condition removal (rest of party was Magus, Monk, Fighter/ninja, Gunslinger). Last game we had a Paladin who could cover out of combat healing, but we struggled in combat until our Fighter took Leadership and got a cleric cohort. It looks like this time I'll need to cover the in combat healing aspects/condition removal.

I'm aware that one way to also try to reduce the reliance on healing is debuff/crowd control in combat, too, so some kind of compromise seems best.

Summary: Characters start at Level 3.
Characters are orphans who have known each other since childhood.
Not Allowed: Dwarves (cultural reasons), Elves (age difference problem for orphanage), gnomes (same reason as elves)
The other Players: Melee barbarian, natural-attack ranger, sword+board inquisitor.

My dilemma: I've considered Cleric, Shaman, and Witch as the big three that seem like they would let me swing between Arm and Anvil with healing as necessary. However, I have played magic/caster characters the last few games and I was wondering if anyone has any creative ideas or suggestions on ways to effectively support the above party preferably without one of those three classes.

Thank you for your time!