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My favorite one to point out as a way to combat folks who get too wrapped up in applying the rules PRECISELY AS WRITTEN is this:
Being dead does not make you fall prone.
Fortunately the game is run by people who are capable of applying common sense and logic to things, and so when you die you do fall down, and so you CAN see the moon despite its distance.
I'm glad to see someone on Paizo's side reference "common sense." I run into those same people that get wrapped up in applying rules precisely as written. Saying "the game designers intended for you to apply common sense" doesn't seem to satisfy them.
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The Wand Wielder Magus Arcana doesn't actually modify the Spell Combat requirement that you keep your off-hand free. So unless you have a third hand, it can't be used with Staves at all and wands would require the Golarion-specific Weaponwand spell.
...So let's talk about the moon!
Earth's moon is 238,900 miles away from where you are now. That's 1,261,392,000 feet! It seems reasonably safe to assume that Golarion's moon is about the same distance away. (NOTE: Istoria, my setting, has two moons, so this might get screwed up, but only slightly.)
But wait! How do Kyra, Merisiel, Seoni, and Valeros actually manage to see the moon from Sandpoint?! According to the Perception rules, the difficulty to see Golarion's moon increases by +1 for every 10' distance. So the party would have a current modifier of 1d20-126,139,200.
Don't worry, though. The moon would get a size penalty to Stealth due to its size. Again, using Earth's moon and its diameter of 2158.644 miles (DAMN YOU KILOMETER CONVERSION!!!), that works out to 7,082,165.3543 feet; or if you're on a battle mat, 1,416,433 squares. (Don't actually try to map this out to scale, this works out to 22 miles in real space.)
Now, the size chart for Pathfinder only ("only!") goes up to Colossal size, which is a 6x6 square block. All is not lost, though! I extrapolated some additional size modifiers from the 3e Big Eyes Small Mouth book right here and... well, the largest BESM size modifier is still only -128. (And works out to a two-foot mini.)
So we'll just assume that the moon has a -128 to Stealth. The moon takes 20 because it has time to hide, it gets a total Stealth of -113. (I'm assuming the moon has 0 Dexterity.)
Now, let's say Kyra has a Wisdom of 36 (rolled an 18, +2 for being a human, +6 headband of inspired wisdom, +5 for getting to twentieth level, +5 inherent bonus through tomes of Wisdom), 20 ranks of Perception, Skill Focus (Perception), and Alertness. This gives her a grand total of +43 Perception before adding that whopping -126,139,200 distance penalty.
Kyra rolls a 20 on her Perception, for a grand total of -126,139,137 vs. -113. Kyra, possibly the most perceptive
Can someone just write up stats for a "Moon" race now?
Or maybe a very very small one?
Well, you'd still be affected by the dying and unconscious conditions, since your still below 0 health.Not always true.
Diehard, half orc, racial favored class bonus to 'effective CON'.
Hit him with a death effect, he fails save, he dies, apply the 'dead' condition, with above rules taken into effect.
Sure, he is staggered, but he can still swing his sword.
Killing him doesn't drop him.
...this would actually make a really cool campaign. You are playing characters that can't die, but they can get worse.
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i have been wanting to run a dark souls esque campaign.
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Ooh, I rather like the weirdness that necromancy is the magic of life and death, yet for some reason all healing spells are conjuration... which, uh, makes things and calls outsiders. Nnnnoot really sure how fixing someone's body has anything to do with conjuring things. I mean, Infernal healing? Yeah sure, that makes sense as a healing spell in conjuration, you're calling on devil blood. Probably an imp as that's the first thing with fast healing that comes to mind that's a devil. But cure spells? Pure positive energy, the energy of life, really should be necromancy.
It's because somewhere along the line Necromancy came to be a synonym for EEEEEEEEVIL!
But yeah, it's dumb.
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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Turning into a rat lets you breathe under water.
I think you are confusing "having a Swim speed" with the Aquatic sub-type.
Aquatic creatures automatically have a swim speed, *and* can breathe water.
Rats have a swim speed, but are not Aquatic, nor do they have the Water Breathing Ex ability...
The polymorph rules explicitly state that you gain water breathing if your form has a swim speed.
The Wand Wielder Magus Arcana doesn't actually modify the Spell Combat requirement that you keep your off-hand free. So unless you have a third hand, it can't be used with Staves at all and wands would require the Golarion-specific Weaponwand spell.
A Staff Magus could make it work by wielding the staff one-handed, but yeah, that's an oversight.
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I know. I actually homerule all healing spells that use positive energy as necromancy in my games. It never made any sense for them to be conjuration. I can actually see an argument for evocation, as they are energy, but that'd still be stepping on necromancer toes and they still belong in necromancy.Good, another reason for Ustalavian to get to my cleric's house with fire and pitchfork. Since I can heal people that makes me a necromancer xD.
No, it doesn't.
"Necromancy" is one of the most misunderstood terms in the fantasy/gaming genre. I think it even beats out "ranger".
"mancy" means divination. That's all. Just divination. "necromancy" means divination through death. For example, a person who conducts a seance to talk to dear, departed mom is a "necromancer".
OK, but even if we take the heavily misused fantasy trope that necromancers bring people back as undead servants (that role would belong to necrovokers), then nobody would actually call a healer "necromancer" (or "necrovoker") - they would call him a healer. Doesn't matter if htat healer is a mage, wizard, cleric, oracle, or whatever. The people would call him by what he does, or maybe by what he calls himself.
So if your cleric calls himself a cleric and heals people, then everyone will know him as "cleric" or "healer" and nobody would know him or think of him as a "necromancer" (or "necrovoker") unless you ALSO raised and/or commanded undead minions to do your bidding - if you did that, they might be right in visiting you with fire and pitchforks...
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I'm glad to see someone on Paizo's side reference "common sense." I run into those same people that get wrapped up in applying rules precisely as written. Saying "the game designers intended for you to apply common sense" doesn't seem to satisfy them.
Perhaps the flaw is in thinking that "common sense" is actually common - it isn't. If it were, then we wouldn't call it anything at all, it would just be "sense".
Ironically, common sense is quite uncommon.
As such, when you apply your version of how you think "common sense" would interpret an ambiguous rule, you might end up with a wholly different interpretation than I get when I apply my version of how I think "common sense" interprets the same rule - and both of us might be way off the mark from what the original developer thought it meant.
The Wand Wielder Magus Arcana doesn't actually modify the Spell Combat requirement that you keep your off-hand free. So unless you have a third hand, it can't be used with Staves at all and wands would require the Golarion-specific Weaponwand spell.A Staff Magus could make it work by wielding the staff one-handed, but yeah, that's an oversight.
Except that S.C. explicitly states that one hand wields your weapon and the other hand "casts the spell." Since Wand Wielder lets you activate the wand in place of the casting, you need to use the other hand to activate the wand or staff. But you can't do that because you need that hand to be free. And now I realize that a third hand and Weaponwand also won't work. ;)
BTW there is a similar issue when using S.C. to cast spells with material components. If one hand is holding a weapon and the other has to be free, how do you manipulate your material components?
This thread is fun.
BTW there is a similar issue when using S.C. to cast spells with material components. If one hand is holding a weapon and the other has to be free, how do you manipulate your material components?
This thread is fun.
No, that issue applies to ALL spellcasters. The RAW says you only need one hand free to cast spells, so a cleric could have a weapon or shield in his off-hand, a mage might have a staff or rod in his off-hand, etc. If they also required using their non-casting hand to handle the materialcomponents, then ALL spellcasting would require two free hands, not just one.
Since that is not the case, apparently we can draw the conclusion that you can use the SAME hand to make the somatic component and handle the material component.
I'm glad to see someone on Paizo's side reference "common sense." I run into those same people that get wrapped up in applying rules precisely as written. Saying "the game designers intended for you to apply common sense" doesn't seem to satisfy them.My favorite one to point out as a way to combat folks who get too wrapped up in applying the rules PRECISELY AS WRITTEN is this:
Being dead does not make you fall prone.
Fortunately the game is run by people who are capable of applying common sense and logic to things, and so when you die you do fall down, and so you CAN see the moon despite its distance.
Well, the thing you need to keep in mind here is that by his own admission, he's not the "rules guy", so anything he says along those lines isn't really the source of truth. So...
:-) (gotta put that in there so I don't run afoul of Poe's Law)
BTW there is a similar issue when using S.C. to cast spells with material components. If one hand is holding a weapon and the other has to be free, how do you manipulate your material components?
This thread is fun.
No, that issue applies to ALL spellcasters. The RAW says you only need one hand free to cast spells, so a cleric could have a weapon or shield in his off-hand, a mage might have a staff or rod in his off-hand, etc. If they also required using their non-casting hand to handle the materialcomponents, then ALL spellcasting would require two free hands, not just one.
Since that is not the case, apparently we can draw the conclusion that you can use the SAME hand to make the somatic component and handle the material component.
Or we can draw the conclusion that no one can cast a spell with material components while holding an item in one hand. So no more holding a metamagic rod in one hand while casting spells with those complicated M components all of you cheating casters!
What if the somatic component for the spell involves manipulating the material component? So like, you cast Fireball by crushing the bat guano in your hand and tossing it at the target square (except when you toss it instead of guano it's a fireball).
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What if the somatic component for the spell involves manipulating the material component? So like, you cast Fireball by crushing the bat guano in your hand and tossing it at the target square (except when you toss it instead of guano it's a fireball).
Nope it can't be done. If you hold the material components then your hand isn't free. Those are THE RULES! Although you might be able to do it if you were dead...
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Damaging magic items. Suppose you have surprised a cyphermage who has 120 magical scrolls and is carrying overdue mundane books back to the local library with a bag of gold to pay the fines. Naturally you fireball him with extreme prejudice, inflicting 105 points of damage, vaporizing him and his icky worthless mundane books and stuff.
Then you stroll to the pool of molten gold on cracked flagstones, pick up from the ashes the 120 scrolls and any other magical items the poor guy might have had, and whistle all the way to ye olde magic shoppe to sell the loot.
Unless the cyphermage is a multiclassed rogue. Then you can lure him into a 10x10 featureless room and lob in fireballs until your hand hurts, only to find out he is completely unscathed.
Another favorite is the very necessary abstraction of encumbrance, which allows a moderately strong character to carry a polearm*, a greataxe, a strung composite longbow, and a heavy flail, without suffering penalties to climbing, acrobatics, or stealth.
*or three, in case you need to overcome damage reduction at reach.
Finally, an average human has about a 50% chance of not noticing an average goblin (or bugbear) with a running chainsaw at ten feet. Iomedae forbid they should have class levels. Things under your bed have concealment from you. Sleep tight.
My favorite one to point out as a way to combat folks who get too wrapped up in applying the rules PRECISELY AS WRITTEN is this:
Being dead does not make you fall prone.
Fortunately the game is run by people who are capable of applying common sense and logic to things, and so when you die you do fall down, and so you CAN see the moon despite its distance.
Actually, that might be cool. Dying while standing has a cool Benkei feel.
I would love to make a fort check to stay standing after I die. Can I make a bluff check as I die in order to convince the enemy that I am still alive? Could this just be a default mythic ability for champions and guardians?
This is the only way I would want my sohei to go.
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Goblin Maze here with a special messagboards offer!
Have you had trouble keeping your ever-growing goblin hoard fed? Well, worry no more! For the low, low price of 10,000 gold, you can buy our special Generic Whale X!
Is that just not good enough for your goblin army? For an extra 2,500 gold, upgrade to a Blue Whale! Yes, now you can eat this colossus of meat and blubber and not feel blue, but be blue! Because you are what you eat.
But wait, there's more! For just 12,600 gold -only than the blue whale- you can chow down on a limited edition, never before seen, Giant White Whale! [/live studio audience of goblins gasp]
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A Nightmare is not resistant to fire, despite being ON FIRE. As such, it dies of its own flaming hooves in a little over a minute.
7 Stirges will suck all the blood from a 200 ton blue whale in 24 seconds flat.
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In an area of bright light, all characters can see clearly. Some creatures, such as those with light sensitivity and light blindness, take penalties while in areas of bright light. A creature can't use Stealth in an area of bright light unless it is invisible or has cover. Areas of bright light include outside in direct sunshine and inside the area of a daylight spell.
In areas of darkness, creatures without darkvision are effectively blinded.
Since you can see clearly if you're in an area of bright light, if you're standing in a sun-lit area, you can see perfectly into the pitch dark cave.
But if you're standing in the pitch dark cave (you are in an area of darkness, thus blinded), you can't see the sun-lit area.
I had a GM run it this way . . . we dropped a lit rock down a hole and it just disappeared as soon as it was 60' gone.
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A collosal dragon standing behind a human has cover from ranged attacks.
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Turning into a rat lets you breathe under water.
I think you are confusing "having a Swim speed" with the Aquatic sub-type.
Aquatic creatures automatically have a swim speed, *and* can breathe water.
Rats have a swim speed, but are not Aquatic, nor do they have the Water Breathing Ex ability...
If the form grants a lesser ability of the same type, you gain the lesser ability instead. Your base speed changes to match that of the form you assume. If the form grants a swim or burrow speed, you maintain the ability to breathe if you are swimming or burrowing. The DC for any of these abilities equals your DC for the polymorph spell used to change you into that form.
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The first round of non-surprise round of combat is absurd.
Here we are in a tavern, where a PC is confronted by an angry half-orc. Both sides are aware, combat trained, and itching for a fight.
PC: "Enough talk, I punch the half-orc!"
(Initiative is rolled, the half-orc wins.)
Half-Orc attacks the PC, who is FLAT-FOOTED (literally "unprepared") for the fight HE started. HE took the action that started the fight, yet his AC is gimped and he takes sneak attack damage.
(And it gets dumber...)
PC: "I hold my action until the guards arrive and tell them he started it!"
DM: (facepalm)
The first round of non-surprise round of combat is absurd.
Here we are in a tavern, where a PC is confronted by an angry half-orc. Both sides are aware, combat trained, and itching for a fight.
PC: "Enough talk, I punch the half-orc!"
(Initiative is rolled, the half-orc wins.)
Half-Orc attacks the PC, who is FLAT-FOOTED (literally "unprepared") for the fight HE started. HE took the action that started the fight, yet his AC is gimped and he takes sneak attack damage.
(And it gets dumber...)
PC: "I hold my action until the guards arrive and tell them he started it!"
DM: (facepalm)
Were you in my frat? Because I've seen that one happen...
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The first round of non-surprise round of combat is absurd.
Here we are in a tavern, where a PC is confronted by an angry half-orc. Both sides are aware, combat trained, and itching for a fight.
PC: "Enough talk, I punch the half-orc!"
(Initiative is rolled, the half-orc wins.)
Half-Orc attacks the PC, who is FLAT-FOOTED (literally "unprepared") for the fight HE started. HE took the action that started the fight, yet his AC is gimped and he takes sneak attack damage.
(And it gets dumber...)
PC: "I hold my action until the guards arrive and tell them he started it!"
DM: (facepalm)
That... is actually completely realistic... Guy goes to punch another guy, but that other guy is faster so hits him first.
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HE took the action that started the fight, yet his AC is gimped and he takes sneak attack damage.That... is actually completely realistic... Guy goes to punch another guy, but that other guy is faster so hits him first.
The half-orc going first isn't the problem. The problem is the instigator being flat-footed. The flat-footed condition implies that someone is surprised or unprepared. How can you be unprepared for a fight that your action started in the first place? Can someone else beat you to the first punch, Old West gunslinger style? Sure, but there's absolutely no reason that the instigator should be surprised in a fight.
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The instigator being flat footed isn't unrealistic in my eyes at all. Jerk was looking to sucker punch someone and is surprised because he didn't expect his target to sucker punch him first. I'm actually surprised so many people are opposed to this idea (not my first time seeing this argument on the forum).
Well, the thing you need to keep in mind here is that by his own admission, he's not the "rules guy", so anything he says along those lines isn't really the source of truth. So...
Right, I wasn't looking for an "official rules interpretation." I play with numerous listed and unlisted house rules, interpretations, etc. Often times when explaining these kind of things to other players I'll hear "But the RAW says x."
My argument is usually "Sure, but common sense dictates that's not the case." To which they will usually agree that common sense should support what I am saying, but they really don't like moving away from what they consider to be the RAW.
So to hear someone on the Paizo side say they also apply "common sense" makes me feel a bit better about supporting this community.
For things like "Okay I punch the half-orc", I've usually given the instigator a bluff check (opposed by the victim's sense motive), and if it passes they get a surprise round. If it doesn't pass, that allows the target to notice something's up, and gives them a chance (if they roll high initiative) to act first.
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Human rail cannon, line up five miles of peasants and have them each ready an action to pass an item forward.
Next thing you know you can move an item five miles in six seconds without it gaining any forward momentum.
I'm glad to see someone on Paizo's side reference "common sense." I run into those same people that get wrapped up in applying rules precisely as written. Saying "the game designers intended for you to apply common sense" doesn't seem to satisfy them.My favorite one to point out as a way to combat folks who get too wrapped up in applying the rules PRECISELY AS WRITTEN is this:
Being dead does not make you fall prone.
Fortunately the game is run by people who are capable of applying common sense and logic to things, and so when you die you do fall down, and so you CAN see the moon despite its distance.
The problem is, everyone has different limits to where common sense breaks down. I assume everyone would accept that a dead person falls to the ground. Not everyone agrees that a person afflicted by magical sleep falls to the ground.
Some people can't accept the rule that you can provide flanking even if you're not doing anything and no-one is aware you're there. Other people would apparently walk out on any game where the GM house-ruled flanking to be more realistic.
A few people can't accept that high-level characters with no magical protection can fall a mile and land on spiky rocks and have no chance of dying.
Sometimes it's hard to know where to draw the line.
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Human rail cannon, line up five miles of peasants and have them each ready an action to pass an item forward.
Next thing you know you can move an item five miles in six seconds without it gaining any forward momentum.
So that's 5280 peasants to move the object at roughly Mach 4.
Obviously, you should apply common sense and make them be deafened by the sonic boom.| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
My favorite one to point out as a way to combat folks who get too wrapped up in applying the rules PRECISELY AS WRITTEN is this:
Being dead does not make you fall prone.
Fortunately the game is run by people who are capable of applying common sense and logic to things, and so when you die you do fall down, and so you CAN see the moon despite its distance.
That said...
I'm also amused whenever someone gives the Run feat to monsters without legs. ;P
The problem is that one person's common sense is another's moldering cheese.
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So let's talk about the moon!
Earth's moon is 238,900 miles away from where you are now. That's 1,261,392,000 feet! It seems reasonably safe to assume that Golarion's moon is about the same distance away. (NOTE: Istoria, my setting, has two moons, so this might get screwed up, but only slightly.)
But wait! How do Kyra, Merisiel, Seoni, and Valeros actually manage to see the moon from Sandpoint?! According to the Perception rules, the difficulty to see Golarion's moon increases by +1 for every 10' distance. So the party would have a current modifier of 1d20-126,139,200.
Don't worry, though. The moon would get a size penalty to Stealth due to its size. Again, using Earth's moon and its diameter of 2158.644 miles (DAMN YOU KILOMETER CONVERSION!!!), that works out to 7,082,165.3543 feet; or if you're on a battle mat, 1,416,433 squares. (Don't actually try to map this out to scale, this works out to 22 miles in real space.)
Now, the size chart for Pathfinder only ("only!") goes up to Colossal size, which is a 6x6 square block. All is not lost, though! I extrapolated some additional size modifiers from the 3e Big Eyes Small Mouth book right here and... well, the largest BESM size modifier is still only -128. (And works out to a two-foot mini.)
If you actually extrapolated the Stealth penalty for the moon's actual size instead of arbitrarily capping it at -128, it easily overcomes the -126,139,200 penalty to Perception. Like, 50 times over.
If you actually extrapolated the Stealth penalty for the moon's actual size instead of arbitrarily capping it at -128, it easily overcomes the -126,139,200 penalty to Perception. Like, 50 times over.So let's talk about the moon!
Earth's moon is 238,900 miles away from where you are now. That's 1,261,392,000 feet! It seems reasonably safe to assume that Golarion's moon is about the same distance away. (NOTE: Istoria, my setting, has two moons, so this might get screwed up, but only slightly.)
But wait! How do Kyra, Merisiel, Seoni, and Valeros actually manage to see the moon from Sandpoint?! According to the Perception rules, the difficulty to see Golarion's moon increases by +1 for every 10' distance. So the party would have a current modifier of 1d20-126,139,200.
Don't worry, though. The moon would get a size penalty to Stealth due to its size. Again, using Earth's moon and its diameter of 2158.644 miles (DAMN YOU KILOMETER CONVERSION!!!), that works out to 7,082,165.3543 feet; or if you're on a battle mat, 1,416,433 squares. (Don't actually try to map this out to scale, this works out to 22 miles in real space.)
Now, the size chart for Pathfinder only ("only!") goes up to Colossal size, which is a 6x6 square block. All is not lost, though! I extrapolated some additional size modifiers from the 3e Big Eyes Small Mouth book right here and... well, the largest BESM size modifier is still only -128. (And works out to a two-foot mini.)
But only in daylight. If it's dark, you're actually pretty screwed.
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This thread is made of Win.
Flavor text of Jaunt Boots. "They can be worn up to mid-thigh, or have their cuffs turned down to make knee-high boots."
Great item, AND so fashion forward.
Noted lol
So let's talk about the moon!
...50 times over.
Sounds reasonable! You just have to believe everyone as horridly nearsighted as me!
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All characters -- even bookworm NPC wizards who never use their dagger for anything more than cutting a rare steak -- automatically get better at stabbing things as they gain experience, at a gradual linear rate. (BAB)
But aside from the rare exception -- like the monk -- anyone who wants to learn how to dodge has to spend special resources to do so. (AC) Additionally, the most worthwhile dodge options create sudden dramatic improvements in a character's skill at dodging.
Meanwhile, non-combat skills advance at a gradual linear rate, but require intentional investment.
All characters -- even bookworm NPC wizards who never use their dagger for anything more than cutting a rare steak -- automatically get better at stabbing things as they gain experience, at a gradual linear rate. (BAB)
But aside from the rare exception -- like the monk -- anyone who wants to learn how to dodge has to spend special resources to do so. (AC) Additionally, the most worthwhile dodge options create sudden dramatic improvements in a character's skill at dodging.
Meanwhile, non-combat skills advance at a gradual linear rate, but require intentional investment.
Well, I can write off BAB. Beside the use of rays and such, I think that anyone that routinely gets into fights (as any adventurer has to do in order to level- no comment on NPC bookworms) where they have to dodge and juke and jive get at least a small sense of how it goes. Spotting opporunties to attack- openings in the opponent's defense.
Perhaps it is just watching the more martial characters go about their business, and recognizing where they choose to hit.
1/2 BAB is the BAB for sports commentators, basically.
Not sure about the gap in how dodging works though.
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Flavor text of Jaunt Boots. "They can be worn up to mid-thigh, or have their cuffs turned down to make knee-high boots."
Great item, AND so fashion forward.
There's a reason for this, actually! Though folded-down boots rapidly became a mere fashion accessory for the gentry, the original idea was that the cuffs could be rolled up during a duel to protect the combatant's delicate knee joints.
A player once claimed that he (a wizard) was able to keep his invisibly and shield spells going we he was unconscious and bleeding. That the crazy part is that he claimed that the the thugs who had beaten him into near death would have to make DC40 perception checks to find him. Despite the fact they had, you know been beating him to death. The rules (at least as he argued) supported that.
The half-orc going first isn't the problem. The problem is the instigator being flat-footed. The flat-footed condition implies that someone is surprised or unprepared. How can you be unprepared for a fight that your action started in the first place? Can someone else beat you to the first punch, Old West gunslinger style? Sure, but there's absolutely no reason that the instigator should be surprised in a fight.HE took the action that started the fight, yet his AC is gimped and he takes sneak attack damage.That... is actually completely realistic... Guy goes to punch another guy, but that other guy is faster so hits him first.
you haven't seen the 1HKO compilations on the internet apparently.
definitely looks like most people who get hit good are "flat-footed"