A stupid thing you've noticed

[Bloodrealm]

So, I was originally going to make this thread about just my own topic, but I decided that maybe this could be fun for a lot of things.

Have you ever noticed something in the game that's completely inane, inconsequential, and silly, and makes no difference to anyone, but you notice and remember it's a bit off or just wrong anyway?
Here's mine: maple syrup is the same price as honey (both 1gp per pound), but it should be a great deal more expensive!

[Scavion]

A T-Rex can swallow whole a triceratops?

Elementals can catch filth fever.

[Bloodrealm]

Scavion wrote:

A T-Rex can swallow whole a triceratops?

I looked at it, and yeah, you're right! That's crazy! I think maybe the Swallow Whole ability was built for snakes or something and they didn't think to alter it.

[Scrapper]

Bloodrealm wrote:

So, I was originally going to make this thread about just my own topic, but I decided that maybe this could be fun for a lot of things.

Have you ever noticed something in the game that's completely inane, inconsequential, and silly, and makes no difference to anyone, but you notice and remember it's a bit off or just wrong anyway?
Here's mine: maple syrup is the same price as honey (both 1gp per pound), but it should be a great deal more expensive!

Hmmm, what is the density difference between Honey and maple Syrup?

Lets say 1 pound of syrup takes up a volume of a pint and a pound of honey takes up a volume of one gallon, so price wise same per pound, but volume wise, a gallon of syrup is 8gp vs 1gp for same volume of honey...
Hmmm, better yet, which one would be better to drown my annoying adventurers in? Why not combine the two for the Ultimate Bar BQ sauce!
Yes, Drown them in Bar BQ sauce!

Sorry, flash back, a DM from long ago actually had a pit trap filled with Bar BQ sauce and a party member actually failed their save and drowned. We at least had a scroll to raise them, but next encounter, some spell casting lizards were waiting for us, and the DM asked what do we do, I exclaimed "they must have smelled the Bar BQ sauce" as I tapped the player in question who's character had drowned earlier...

[BigNorseWolf]

A red dragon can freely swim around in lava but will get heat stroke on a hot summer day.

Turning into a rat lets you breathe under water.

[Falcar]

Not exactly original but the Diabolist's Imp companion can hypothetically deal 100 dex damage. His poison hits for 1D2 DEX per round for 5 minutes.

[Dasrak]

There are a lot of cost discrepancies of mundane items. Anyone familiar with their real-world counterparts can easily find absurd pricing discrepancies. Still fun to point them out, though. I think one that gives me chuckles is that arrows cost 5 CP a piece. Just the sheer rate a 1st level expert is creating them with crafting checks reveals how ludicrous this is; we're talking about churning out one arrow every 10 minutes.

Here are some other ones that come to mind:

Skulks (B2) lack the hide in plain sight ability, and thus cannot use stealth without cover or concealment.

The Elohim (B4) is a mythic creature that oozes god-like flavor... but lacks access to the permanency spell and most of its abilities are sharply limited in per-day usage meaning it can't do what it's supposed to do without heavy modification.

The CL required to create various constructs is inconsistent and rather puzzling. For instance, you need to be CL 12 to create a CR 5 Ice Golem (B1), but only CL 9 to create a CR 8 Bone Golem (B3).

Tower Shields weigh a whopping 45 pounds. I did some research a while back, and I came up with a figure of 15-20 lbs for a real tower shield. These things are grossly over-weighted.

[Bandw2]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

A red dragon can freely swim around in lava but will get heat stroke on a hot summer day.

Turning into a rat lets you breathe under water.

i believe that the devs clarified that its intended for fire/cold resistance to also affect fatigue damage from those

[BigNorseWolf]

Bandw2 wrote:

BigNorseWolf wrote:

A red dragon can freely swim around in lava but will get heat stroke on a hot summer day.

Turning into a rat lets you breathe under water.

i believe that the devs clarified that its intended for fire/cold resistance to also affect fatigue damage from those

Got linky? I always argue that one with a friend.

[Snowblind]

The succubus energy drain ability.

Energy Drain wrote:

A succubus drains energy from a mortal she lures into an act of passion, such as a kiss. An unwilling victim must be grappled before the succubus can use this ability. The succubus's kiss bestows one negative level. The kiss also has the effect of a suggestion spell, asking the victim to accept another act of passion from the succubus. The victim must succeed on a DC 22 Will save to negate the suggestion. The DC is 22 for the Fortitude save to remove a negative level. These save DCs are Charisma-based.

So the succubus must be grappling an unwilling target to use it's ability, which involves an act of passion. As part of it's ability, it compels the victim to willingly accept another "act of passion"...which makes it a willing victim and thus an inelligible "target" for the effect.

This also means amusingly enough that all a PC has to do to render themselves immune to the energy drain is "get into it" when the succubus goes for a grapple. Not a great solution in private while the succubus spams SLAs, but it is great if the PC can't deal with the grapple and only needs to stay up for 12 seconds before Mr Fighty McFalchionMan gets to the demon and performs his own "act of passion".

Of course, this whole problem goes away if the "Unwilling" bit gets crossed out.

[Bloodrealm]

Nah, when it says "an unwilling victim" it means "as opposed to a willing victim i.e. someone willingly into the succubus' act of passion." I can see why people can get hung up on that when they're trying to read it in legalese, though. Try reading the description without the "unwilling victim" sentence (or with that sentence at the end), and it makes perfect sense. In computer terms, if willing equals false: grapple; else: apply kissy-kiss energy drain.

[Serghar Cromwell]

If you cut off a dead guy's finger and then cast resurrection on the finger, there's nothing stopping you from making an undead out of the rest of his old body even though he's alive.

[Milo v3]

Serghar Cromwell wrote:

If you cut off a dead guy's finger and then cast resurrection on the finger, there's nothing stopping you from making an undead out of the rest of his old body even though he's alive.

One of my players actually did that once so we ruled that his soul in new copies was getting progressively lower until eventually a giant outsider formed from his broken soul bit burst out of a "corpseclone" and tried to hunt down the rest of his soul fragments.

[Snorb]

So let's talk about the moon!

Earth's moon is 238,900 miles away from where you are now. That's 1,261,392,000 feet! It seems reasonably safe to assume that Golarion's moon is about the same distance away. (NOTE: Istoria, my setting, has two moons, so this might get screwed up, but only slightly.)

But wait! How do Kyra, Merisiel, Seoni, and Valeros actually manage to see the moon from Sandpoint?! According to the Perception rules, the difficulty to see Golarion's moon increases by +1 for every 10' distance. So the party would have a current modifier of 1d20-126,139,200.

Don't worry, though. The moon would get a size penalty to Stealth due to its size. Again, using Earth's moon and its diameter of 2158.644 miles (DAMN YOU KILOMETER CONVERSION!!!), that works out to 7,082,165.3543 feet; or if you're on a battle mat, 1,416,433 squares. (Don't actually try to map this out to scale, this works out to 22 miles in real space.)

Now, the size chart for Pathfinder only ("only!") goes up to Colossal size, which is a 6x6 square block. All is not lost, though! I extrapolated some additional size modifiers from the 3e Big Eyes Small Mouth book right here and... well, the largest BESM size modifier is still only -128. (And works out to a two-foot mini.)

So we'll just assume that the moon has a -128 to Stealth. The moon takes 20 because it has time to hide, it gets a total Stealth of -113. (I'm assuming the moon has 0 Dexterity.)

Now, let's say Kyra has a Wisdom of 36 (rolled an 18, +2 for being a human, +6 headband of inspired wisdom, +5 for getting to twentieth level, +5 inherent bonus through tomes of Wisdom), 20 ranks of Perception, Skill Focus (Perception), and Alertness. This gives her a grand total of +43 Perception before adding that whopping -126,139,200 distance penalty.

Kyra rolls a 20 on her Perception, for a grand total of -126,139,137 vs. -113. Kyra, possibly the most perceptive person on Golarion, cannot see the moon.

[pauljathome]

Snorb wrote:

So let's talk about the moon!

My simpler version is that almost nobody can watch a football game.

[Bloodrealm]

Snorb wrote:

Math that I get but won't repeat

You're assuming that the moon WANTS to hide. That being said, I'd love it if a future book had a stat block for said giant inanimate rock, just for the hell of it.

ULTIMATE ASTRONOMY: COMING SOON. GEOLOGICALLY SOON, THAT IS. SEE YOU IN 54361 A.D.!

[James F.D. Graham]

If you do the math, a mile works out to be exactly 6,000 feet.

Math:

Spoiler:

Local speed of a Human: 300 feet per minute.
Minutes in an Hour: 60
Local speed of a Human over an hour: 18,000 feet

Overland speed of a Human: 3 miles per hour

3 miles per hour into 18,000 feet per hour = 1 mile is 6,000 feet.

Of course, as a Canadian it's all academic to me.

[p-sto]

Well taking a restrained interpretation of perception rules that means that it's hard to read the names on a jersey when sitting in the nosebleeds and there's little chance of finding the moon on an overcast night.

Personally I still can't come to terms with the idea that a mindless creature can get a dex bonus but is impossible to feint. Does feinting in Pathfinder amount to pointing and saying look over there? How does a wasp ignore your feint at one moment then know to dodge when you swing to hit it.

[Furdinand]

Snowblind wrote:

The succubus energy drain ability.

Energy Drain wrote:

A succubus drains energy from a mortal she lures into an act of passion, such as a kiss. An unwilling victim must be grappled before the succubus can use this ability. The succubus's kiss bestows one negative level. The kiss also has the effect of a suggestion spell, asking the victim to accept another act of passion from the succubus. The victim must succeed on a DC 22 Will save to negate the suggestion. The DC is 22 for the Fortitude save to remove a negative level. These save DCs are Charisma-based.

So the succubus must be grappling an unwilling target to use it's ability, which involves an act of passion. As part of it's ability, it compels the victim to willingly accept another "act of passion"...which makes it a willing victim and thus an inelligible "target" for the effect.

This also means amusingly enough that all a PC has to do to render themselves immune to the energy drain is "get into it" when the succubus goes for a grapple. Not a great solution in private while the succubus spams SLAs, but it is great if the PC can't deal with the grapple and only needs to stay up for 12 seconds before Mr Fighty McFalchionMan gets to the demon and performs his own "act of passion".

Of course, this whole problem goes away if the "Unwilling" bit gets crossed out.

The first sentence establishes that a succubus has the ability to energy drain mortals via an act of passion (General). The second sentence creates an exception to the first, what happens when a target is unwilling, and goes on to establish rules for the exception (Specific).

The existence of a rule for a specific situation does not override rules for general situations not related to the specific situation.

[Idle Champion]

Armour bugs me - at times it seems like there's a unifying logic - but there isn't - the banded mail is cheaper than masterwork splint mail but vastly better, while the field plate is 800 gp dearer than masterwork banded mail - and 15 pounds heavier. The kikko is better in every way than scale mail but 20 gp cheaper, while the Do-Maru only wins on Max Dex and costs six times as much as scale. Steel lamellar costs the same as chain mail, but has lower ASF, higher max dex, and is lighter.

There's basically no attempt to make the cost of the armour actually reflect anything about the quality of the item itself.

[BigNorseWolf]

The moon has neither cover nor concealment unless new or eclipsed. Therefore it is auto spotted.

You cannot stealth while holding a light source, as a reflective surface the moon cannot stealth.

[Legio_MCMLXXXVII]

The Undead subdomain doesn't get Command Undead. Who planned this operation?

[thorin001]

Snorb wrote:

So let's talk about the moon!

Earth's moon is 238,900 miles away from where you are now. That's 1,261,392,000 feet! It seems reasonably safe to assume that Golarion's moon is about the same distance away. (NOTE: Istoria, my setting, has two moons, so this might get screwed up, but only slightly.)

But wait! How do Kyra, Merisiel, Seoni, and Valeros actually manage to see the moon from Sandpoint?! According to the Perception rules, the difficulty to see Golarion's moon increases by +1 for every 10' distance. So the party would have a current modifier of 1d20-126,139,200.

Don't worry, though. The moon would get a size penalty to Stealth due to its size. Again, using Earth's moon and its diameter of 2158.644 miles (DAMN YOU KILOMETER CONVERSION!!!), that works out to 7,082,165.3543 feet; or if you're on a battle mat, 1,416,433 squares. (Don't actually try to map this out to scale, this works out to 22 miles in real space.)

Now, the size chart for Pathfinder only ("only!") goes up to Colossal size, which is a 6x6 square block. All is not lost, though! I extrapolated some additional size modifiers from the 3e Big Eyes Small Mouth book right here and... well, the largest BESM size modifier is still only -128. (And works out to a two-foot mini.)

So we'll just assume that the moon has a -128 to Stealth. The moon takes 20 because it has time to hide, it gets a total Stealth of -113. (I'm assuming the moon has 0 Dexterity.)

Now, let's say Kyra has a Wisdom of 36 (rolled an 18, +2 for being a human, +6 headband of inspired wisdom, +5 for getting to twentieth level, +5 inherent bonus through tomes of Wisdom), 20 ranks of Perception, Skill Focus (Perception), and Alertness. This gives her a grand total of +43 Perception before adding that whopping -126,139,200 distance penalty.

Kyra rolls a 20 on her Perception, for a grand total of -126,139,137 vs. -113. Kyra, possibly the most perceptive person on Golarion, cannot...

But the moon has a -127,000,000 racial penalty to stealth. :D

[ryric]

Monsters that breed asexually can have templates that make them half-dragon, half-celestial, and the like. My favorite is the half-dragon gelatinous cube, a flying cube with a breath weapon.

[alexd1976]

No penalties being listed for being dead.

Martial Weapon Proficiency feat doesn't grant proficiency.

Most spells.

[alexd1976]

ryric wrote:

Monsters that breed asexually can have templates that make them half-dragon, half-celestial, and the like. My favorite is the half-dragon gelatinous cube, a flying cube with a breath weapon.

Half dragon doesn't have to be a breeding thing anymore.

[Milo v3]

alexd1976 wrote:

Half dragon doesn't have to be a breeding thing anymore.

Neither does half-fiend... which means it's probably the same for half-celestial as well. Getting rewarded by angels via half-celestial template could be nice once actually...

[DM Sothal]

alexd1976 wrote:

No penalties being listed for being dead.

...

*not sure if joking*

[alexd1976]

DM Sothal wrote:

alexd1976 wrote:

No penalties being listed for being dead.

...

*not sure if joking*

Did they update the CRB?

The character's hit points are reduced to a negative amount equal to his Constitution score, his Constitution drops to 0, or he is killed outright by a spell or effect. The character's soul leaves his body. Dead characters cannot benefit from normal or magical healing, but they can be restored to life via magic. A dead body decays normally unless magically preserved, but magic that restores a dead character to life also restores the body either to full health or to its condition at the time of death (depending on the spell or device). Either way, resurrected characters need not worry about rigor mortis, decomposition, and other conditions that affect dead bodies.

Okay, you can't heal, and you start to decay... but there are no penalties to hit, no movement penalties, no action penalties...
Can't benefit from healing... alright, some penalties.

But it looks like you can still roll initiative, cast spells, roll to hit... and so on.

[Milo v3]

Well, you'd still be affected by the dying and unconscious conditions, since your still below 0 health.

[alexd1976]

Sure.

Orc fighter, throw the Diehard feat on there, yada yada yada.

Basically, being dead doesn't actually STOP you from doing stuff.

It should read more like:

Dead
You can take no actions, your character is no longer under your control. Until raised/brought back somehow, the inanimate corpse rots like any other... etc etc etc

As written, you could have a half orc fighter still up and attacking.
If he was hit by a death effect, that is, not dropped due to hitpoint damage.

Its a corner case, and obviously stupid, that's why I draw attention to it (looking at title of thread).

[alexd1976]

Milo v3 wrote:

Well, you'd still be affected by the dying and unconscious conditions, since your still below 0 health.

Not always true.

Diehard, half orc, racial favored class bonus to 'effective CON'.

Hit him with a death effect, he fails save, he dies, apply the 'dead' condition, with above rules taken into effect.

Sure, he is staggered, but he can still swing his sword.

Killing him doesn't drop him.

[Azten]

You can boil a red dragon to death.

[alexd1976]

Azten wrote:

You can boil a red dragon to death.

Mmmm dragon soup

[Doomed Hero]

In a world where Hags and Changelings exist, Half-Orc witch doctors are now the undisputed best witches in the world.

All my eyerolling.

[Hyamda]

A giant tentacle monster doesn't get grapple bonus for having +1000 tentacles, cannot grapple more than a single creature at a time with the grapple action and if it is grappling several creatures(due to having the grab special ability linked to his attack) can only maintain his grappling on a single creature as it requires a standard action to maintain.
Hell, it's more smarter for creature with constrict to attack,grab,constrict then let go as a free action at the start of their turn and reattack,regrab,reconstrict.

[ohako]

So, fine, the moon has a gigantic racial penalty to Stealth. okay folks, in Pathfinder

a) how much damage can you do to yourself if you stare at the sun?
b) can an aerial rogue use the sun as a source of concealment against a grounded target on a sunny day?

the answer I got to this one, not surprisingly, was that the sun had an astronomical (ha ha) penalty to perceive it, so no dice.

which is it? can you see the sun and the moon or can't you?

[Rikkan]

prd wrote:

In an area of bright light, all characters can see clearly. Some creatures, such as those with light sensitivity and light blindness, take penalties while in areas of bright light. A creature can't use Stealth in an area of bright light unless it is invisible or has cover. Areas of bright light include outside in direct sunshine and inside the area of a daylight spell.

In areas of darkness, creatures without darkvision are effectively blinded.

Since you can see clearly if you're in an area of bright light, if you're standing in a sun-lit area, you can see perfectly into the pitch dark cave.

But if you're standing in the pitch dark cave (you are in an area of darkness, thus blinded), you can't see the sun-lit area.

[Partizanski]

Snorb wrote:

So let's talk about the moon!

So here is my argument against this. You say the moons size penalty is only -128, which looks to be for something roughly 32' by 32'. Kaiju being somewhere between 50x50 to 60x60 means they have a smaller size penalty than the moon???

Nah, here is how I think it works out. The DC to see the moon is still 126,139,200. Size penalties to stealth are a function of the area the creature takes up.

Squares | Size | Penalty
1 | Medium | 0
2 | Large | -4
3 | Huge | -8
4 | Gargantuan | -12
5 | Skipped for some reason
6 | Colossal | -16

Barring the weird one which is Colossal, we can see that Stealth penalty S(p) = -1*(([Number of squares on one side you take up]-1)x4). For example for Huge we have S(p) = -1*((3-1)x4) = -1*(2x4) = -8.

As you mentioned, the moons diameter is 1,416,433 squares, which means its dimensions are 708,216x708,216. By my formula, this gives the moon a size penalty of 2,832,860.

This means the DC to see the moon is -123,306,227, well within the bounds of anyone with out the blind condition or clouded vision oracles, who have only ever heard of this "moon" thing.

[James Jacobs]

My favorite one to point out as a way to combat folks who get too wrapped up in applying the rules PRECISELY AS WRITTEN is this:

Being dead does not make you fall prone.

Fortunately the game is run by people who are capable of applying common sense and logic to things, and so when you die you do fall down, and so you CAN see the moon despite its distance.

That said...

I'm also amused whenever someone gives the Run feat to monsters without legs. ;P

[Myrryr]

James Jacobs wrote:

My favorite one to point out as a way to combat folks who get too wrapped up in applying the rules PRECISELY AS WRITTEN is this:

Being dead does not make you fall prone.

Fortunately the game is run by people who are capable of applying common sense and logic to things, and so when you die you do fall down, and so you CAN see the moon despite its distance.

That said...

I'm also amused whenever someone gives the Run feat to monsters without legs. ;P

Did they ever fix being able to hide behind your own tower shield, get full cover, and then since your tower shield is your own equipment, it disappears from sight too? (assuming your stealth beats the perc)

Ooh, I rather like the weirdness that necromancy is the magic of life and death, yet for some reason all healing spells are conjuration... which, uh, makes things and calls outsiders. Nnnnoot really sure how fixing someone's body has anything to do with conjuring things. I mean, Infernal healing? Yeah sure, that makes sense as a healing spell in conjuration, you're calling on devil blood. Probably an imp as that's the first thing with fast healing that comes to mind that's a devil. But cure spells? Pure positive energy, the energy of life, really should be necromancy.

[ryric]

Myrryr wrote:

Ooh, I rather like the weirdness that necromancy is the magic of life and death, yet for some reason all healing spells are conjuration... which, uh, makes things and calls outsiders. Nnnnoot really sure how fixing someone's body has anything to do with conjuring things. I mean, Infernal healing? Yeah sure, that makes sense as a healing spell in conjuration, you're calling on devil blood. Probably an imp as that's the first thing with fast healing that comes to mind that's a devil. But cure spells? Pure positive energy, the energy of life, really should be necromancy.

Back in early editions (1e) healing spells were necromancy. Somewhere in along the way they got changed to conjuration because someone decided necromancy must be icky.

Honestly it's no worse than conjuration having many of the best direct damage spells too.

[Laiho Vanallo]

Let me open my adventurer armory.
Point at the bear trap.
Point at the fact this thing cost 2 pieces of gold.

Description:
CR 1
Type mechanical; Perception DC 15; Disable Device DC 20
EFFECTS
Trigger location; Reset manual
Effect Atk +10 melee (2d6+3); sharp jaws spring shut around
the creature’s ankle and halve the creature’s base speed (or
hold the creature immobile if the trap is attached to a solid
object); the creature can escape with a DC 20 Disable Device
check, DC 22 Escape Artist check, or DC 26 Strength check.

You can secure most choke point with that darn thing.

A maxed out str barbarian at level 1 can get maybe +8 on it's attack roll with weapon focus or +9 if buffed with a spell like bless or whatever. That thing get +10 for 2 pieces of gold ... and can be reused.

[alexd1976]

James Jacobs wrote:

My favorite one to point out as a way to combat folks who get too wrapped up in applying the rules PRECISELY AS WRITTEN is this:

Being dead does not make you fall prone.

Fortunately the game is run by people who are capable of applying common sense and logic to things, and so when you die you do fall down, and so you CAN see the moon despite its distance.

That said...

I'm also amused whenever someone gives the Run feat to monsters without legs. ;P

Hah hah, good point about being dead. Same thing for Sleep effects, people often assume they disarm you and knock you over! (I"m on the fence lately, had a big discussion about it... we say that magical sleep won't knock you over or disarm you).

*waves* Hi James, love your work. Big fan.

[Hyamda]

The aquatic ecology of Golarion itself. As from the Aquatic environement rules:"Very deep water is not only generally pitch black, posing a navigational hazard, but worse, deals water pressure damage of 1d6 points per minute for every 100 feet the character is below the surface."
Now I don't wan't to point fingers but that's just 30 meters of depth. A quick google search told me the first 200 meter of the earth's oceans are the "habitable" zone where one finds the most aquatic flora and fauna and the area where there is enough light for photosynthesis.
While in Golarion, the pressure death zone starts at 30 meter and generally speaking one would not find light at this depth. Why the major difference? O.o

[alexd1976]

Laiho Vanallo wrote:

Let me open my adventurer armory.

Point at the bear trap.
Point at the fact this thing cost 2 pieces of gold.

Description:
CR 1
Type mechanical; Perception DC 15; Disable Device DC 20
EFFECTS
Trigger location; Reset manual
Effect Atk +10 melee (2d6+3); sharp jaws spring shut around
the creature’s ankle and halve the creature’s base speed (or
hold the creature immobile if the trap is attached to a solid
object); the creature can escape with a DC 20 Disable Device
check, DC 22 Escape Artist check, or DC 26 Strength check.

You can secure most choke point with that darn thing.

A maxed out str barbarian at level 1 can get maybe +8 on it's attack roll with weapon focus or +9 if buffed with a spell like bless or whatever. That thing get +10 for 2 pieces of gold ... and can be reused.

We use those like crazy in our low level games. Put them on sticks and jab the enemy with them (touch attack, then the trap goes off). We call it Bear Trap Attack.

Soooo effective, yikes.

[Laiho Vanallo]

alexd1976 wrote:

Laiho Vanallo wrote:

Let me open my adventurer armory.

Point at the bear trap.
Point at the fact this thing cost 2 pieces of gold. [...]

We use those like crazy in our low level games. Put them on sticks and jab the enemy with them (touch attack, then the trap goes off). We call it Bear Trap Attack.

Soooo effective, yikes.

Halves the creature speed is also incredible.

No save vs that effect and most dumb big monster with low AC cannot remove that thing. Most CR 7 and lower big beasts are doomed if hit with one of these. I played a ranger using one of these and let me say that once a create is caught by, it better have nice ranged attack or it's good as dead. Fun thing it's not entangled condition meaning that if you entangle something on top of that, hello moving at 1/4 of your base speed. Hell versus low CR flyer with bad AC like dragons this thing is actually a smart move.

[Myrryr]

ryric wrote:

Myrryr wrote:

Ooh, I rather like the weirdness that necromancy is the magic of life and death, yet for some reason all healing spells are conjuration... which, uh, makes things and calls outsiders. Nnnnoot really sure how fixing someone's body has anything to do with conjuring things. I mean, Infernal healing? Yeah sure, that makes sense as a healing spell in conjuration, you're calling on devil blood. Probably an imp as that's the first thing with fast healing that comes to mind that's a devil. But cure spells? Pure positive energy, the energy of life, really should be necromancy.

Back in early editions (1e) healing spells were necromancy. Somewhere in along the way they got changed to conjuration because someone decided necromancy must be icky.

Honestly it's no worse than conjuration having many of the best direct damage spells too.

I know. I actually homerule all healing spells that use positive energy as necromancy in my games. It never made any sense for them to be conjuration. I can actually see an argument for evocation, as they are energy, but that'd still be stepping on necromancer toes and they still belong in necromancy.

[Hyamda]

Myrryr wrote:

I know. I actually homerule all healing spells that use positive energy as necromancy in my games. It never made any sense for them to be conjuration. I can actually see an argument for evocation, as they are energy, but that'd still be stepping on necromancer toes and they still belong in necromancy.

Good, another reason for Ustalavian to get to my cleric's house with fire and pitchfork. Since I can heal people that makes me a necromancer xD.