Sure, I can have a regular Alchemist (or an archetypical Grenadier) using a pistol or musket with the Explosive Missile discovery, but...
Did Paizo release a bonafide archetype that relies a lot of the use of firearms?
(I'm asking because 1) that sounds like a no-brainer for a class that uses bombs, 2) many other classes got firearm-focused archetypes... and 3) maybe I missed it...)
No... there is no gun toting archetype of the alchemist.
Hmmm.. so I'm not crazy then...
Doesn't like a big game-breaking idea either... unless making a gunslinger focused on using dangerous chemicals would cause imbalance...
I was thinking it would be more like a dynamite tossing cowboy, or an Alkenstar demolitions expert. Seems like a cool idea to me.
And alchemists are just not a good thematic fit. Combining Doc Jekyll with Doc Holliday just gets too weird.
How about a bomb throwing anarchist armed with firearms? Ditch the Doc Jekyll mutagens and use an urban environment (thinking Dishonoured, here) and the archetype would fit right in.
A straight up combination of Gunslinger and Alchemist would require a lot of compromises. Assuming that by "gun focused" you mean it has a grit pool and deeds, what would you be giving up from Alchemist? You'd probably need to give up a little more than just your Poison Resistance if you catch my drift.
A straight up combination of Gunslinger and Alchemist would require a lot of compromises. Assuming that by "gun focused" you mean it has a grit pool and deeds, what would you be giving up from Alchemist? You'd probably need to give up a little more than just your Poison Resistance if you catch my drift.Taking Darkwolf445's suggestion - Drop the mutagen and you've got a bomb-throwing gunslinger. Drop or delay some Deeds and get a few less Discoveries as needed for balance.
Are you familiar with how the Spellscar Drifter cavalier archetype delayed it's deed progression? That would probably work pretty well, depending on what you would trade them for.
To me it always seemed a little ridiculous that the class that probably invented gunpowder and is well known for their willingness to experiment volatile chemicals (and wield them
In combat) wouldn't have a gunslinger archetype... Not everyone sees mutagen as a jeckell/Hyde thing (that's really more of a master chymist thing).
Having it grant more than just a couple deeds would require some thought, but it seems completely doable to me. Restricting the list of potential discoveries they can chose from and lowering the number of them that they get could pay for a lot of gunslinger abilities...
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LazarX is right guys. You can't just slap guns onto other classes.
It's not like Paizo made a Holy Gun archetype for Paladins, or a Musketeer archetype for Cavaliers or a Spellslinger archetype for Wizards.
Stop being so 'silly'.
I think kobalt press did a blackpowder expert archetype. I does seem like there should be one.
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I've made a few alchemist NPCs with the grenadier archetype and the hybridization funnel with splash weapons to fun effect.
LazarX is right guys. You can't just slap guns onto other classes.
It's not like Paizo made a Holy Gun archetype for Paladins, or a Musketeer archetype for Cavaliers or a Spellslinger archetype for Wizards.
Stop being so 'silly'.
The Musketeer took away a fairly huge part of the Cavalier, it's mount. But yeah, the Holy Gun archetype seemed unnecessary.
I've made a few alchemist NPCs with the grenadier archetype and the hybridization funnel with splash weapons to fun effect.
I'll have to remember that one. I love that archetype, and I'm quite interested in that item.
Well for 3PP, I'm working on a Gothic Horror Old West setting called Gothic Western set in an alternate US western territories, and I'm planning on creating at least one archetype for every class in the game, and all of them (including alchemists) will have firearm options, built into the class.
Already created are: Texas Ranger (druid archetype), Shootist (magus archetype), Knights Templar of the Masonic Order (inquisitor archetype), and a Journalist (investigator archetype) - and all of them use firearms.
So no doubt, I will eventually get to an alchemist with firearms archetype.
The goal for now is creating a one-shot module, and all archetypes used in the pregen PCs and villains, as well as specific feats and spells will be included in the appendix of that module. If successful, next I'll do a setting guide with at least 3 included one-shots, and place all new archetypes there.
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I had a player just straight-up multiclass alchemist and gunslinger. He primarily played it like an old-west bartender, all his extracts were whiskey.
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LazarX is right guys. You can't just slap guns onto other classes.
It's not like Paizo made a Holy Gun archetype for Paladins, or a Musketeer archetype for Cavaliers or a Spellslinger archetype for Wizards.
Stop being so 'silly'.
and the Steel Hound for the Investigator...
and the Savage Technologist for the Barbarian...and the Musketeer for the Swashbuckler...
and the Trophy Hunter for the Ranger...
A straight up combination of Gunslinger and Alchemist would require a lot of compromises. Assuming that by "gun focused" you mean it has a grit pool and deeds, what would you be giving up from Alchemist? You'd probably need to give up a little more than just your Poison Resistance if you catch my drift.
The Mutagen, as others suggested, seem to be a decent trade for deeds... as well as any firearm-related class feature.
I had a player just straight-up multiclass alchemist and gunslinger. He primarily played it like an old-west bartender, all his extracts were whiskey.
You... basically brought up the reason I asked for an archetype: I hate multiclassing with a passion.
It's possible to do just through feats... It takes some time to come together though because there's no free gun involved... A half-elf can take ancestral arms to get EWP[firearms] at 1st level along with gunsmith; they should be able to afford a gun around 2nd or 3rd (if they don't really buy anything else), and can grab amateur gunslinger at 3rd (and explosive missile discovery at 4th).
I don't think that's good enough to merit not having an archetype, but it's functional...
Maybe Variant Multiclassing would work here?
VMC gunslinger is a disaster (unless you're starting at or above 15th level). All it does is give you the feats you need spread out over waaaaay to many levels to be useful.
What about gunslinger VMC's with Alchemist?
I guess a stunted bomb/extract progression wouldn't be great either.
Gunslinger with VMC alchemist is definitely better than Alchemist with VMC gunslinger... IMHO, though, alchemist with the feats is probably better than either; and an alchemist with a 1 level gunslinger dip would probably be better too...
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Seems like a big hole considering the nature of guns pretty much being a chemical reaction.
The Gun Chemist(chemyst?) Is an archtype for "alchslinger" but you jib bombs to turn your gun into a dragon's breath weapon basically with the damage discoveries
The Gun Chemist(chemyst?) Is an archtype for "alchslinger" but you jib bombs to turn your gun into a dragon's breath weapon basically with the damage discoveries
I discovered it the moment it went live on the Archives :)
I completely forgot that I made that topic XD
There is the Gunslinger Fire Brand. It goes the opposite way though.
It's also completely unusable, since the author never did the math on the scorched earth class feature. It turns out that the increased chance of misfire it incurs lowers your DPR more than the ability increases it, so the archetype actually gets progressively more unreliable and less powerful as it gains levels. At 20th it's got a 39% chance to misfire on the first attack every round, which is simply dysfunctional.
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IMO the job would be better done by a hybrid class style project, combining martial gunplay with bombs and alchemist style casting in some fashion.
Gun-wielding archetypes tend to be notoriously incomplete anyways.
And alchemists are just not a good thematic fit.
Yeah, how do you bridge the gap between a class built around the idea of mixing chemicals and throwing bombs with a class built around using a weapon that relies on explosive compounds to launch projectiles.
I think you just answered your own question there.
Sure, I can have a regular Alchemist (or an archetypical Grenadier) using a pistol or musket with the Explosive Missile discovery, but...
Did Paizo release a bonafide archetype that relies a lot of the use of firearms?
(I'm asking because 1) that sounds like a no-brainer for a class that uses bombs, 2) many other classes got firearm-focused archetypes... and 3) maybe I missed it...)
Try a Gun Chemist from the People of the Wastes Player Companion:
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/archetypes/paizo-al chemist-archetypes/gun-chemist-alchemist-archetype/
Multi-class.
/End thread
Gunchemist is strikingly better than multiclassing. At least as far as "alchemist with a gun" goes. may or may not be different if one focused on gun then alchemist.
But gunchemist can do some weird things (making special alch shots more usable), and does some good stat damage (can get int in to damage in various ways). Doesn't get dex to damage as a constant though.
I was gonna say Gun Chemist too. Heck you can even start picking up Some deed feats instead of some combat ones.
Heck talk to your GM if you aren't in Society, see if they'll let you homebrew a Deed replacement to Poison Use and you'd be in a better spot(Because Gun Chemist trades out Resistance and Swift Poisoning but not Poison Use, why?)
Really this kinda looks what I would want in a Gun focused Chemist, just tack on a deed or two and we'd be good to go.
There is the Gunslinger Fire Brand. It goes the opposite way though.It's also completely unusable, since the author never did the math on the scorched earth class feature. It turns out that the increased chance of misfire it incurs lowers your DPR more than the ability increases it, so the archetype actually gets progressively more unreliable and less powerful as it gains levels. At 20th it's got a 39% chance to misfire on the first attack every round, which is simply dysfunctional.
It's more the Dragon Fire misfire clause than Scorched Earth. Which I question how it works with other sources of damage such as a Shocking gun or even trying to use Vital Strike with it. This can be fixed with a clause/FAQ that reads something like "You only check for misfire on the 2d6 a Dragon Fire Cartridge does, ignoring any extra damage sources". Someone can probably word it better.
But then the bombs also that aren't good given that they're 4 levels behind. And you can't even change up what bombs they are.
It's not a bad idea, shift from high single damage to just AoE fire spam. Against a horde of low level enemies, shooting off a Dragon Fire and then tossing a bomb can make for a cool mental picture. But it needs some homebrewing to get it out of the crater it's in.