| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Just throwing in my pair of pennies, a 2.0 would not see me or any of my group spending money on it. We've decided that Pathfinder is the system we'll "retire" on after years of edition upgrades and thousands of dollars spent collectively on books. We'll stick with PF as long as it stays in its current form; it's unlikely, no matter how good a PF2e might be, that we'd switch to it.This is pretty much me as well. I love Paizo and I will play PF until I can no longer draw breath. But it will be a relief in some ways, when I know I am locked into a rule set for the duration and my pocketbook breathes a sigh of relief for an end to the spend. I have been steadily buying rule books since Deities and Demigods went live. At some point you just have to stop. I have no kids, so someday I'm going to be gone and where on earth will all these books go from here?Estate Sale.
25 cents each.
:)
It sucks when your things are sold by people who have NO idea how much they are worth.
That's probably what will happen to my collection at least...
F##@ that noise - my books are being burned with my remains in a viking longship as it sails down the Delaware.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It's interesting.
I have a spreadsheet that has all my 3.5 and Pathfinder books in it, mostly because I was curious about what I had/didn't have, and also for insurance since there's a very valuable room in all our houses.
From 8/2000 to 10/2007, I added 203 items to my shelves to play 3.5. This includes all the Wizards hardcovers, softcovers (I never got into FR or Eberron) and all the Dungeon & Dragon magazines from which we got details on Greyhawk Gods and adventures and APs to play. It doesn't include minis, maps, novels, etc.
In 7 years of 3.5e, I spent $2658 (if you don't assume deals/Amazon buys) or ~$380/year ($31.67/month) on just the books.
From 8/2009 to present, I've added 202 items to my shelves to play Pathfinder. This includes the hardcovers, player companions, etc. It doesn't include pawns or map folios, map packs, Tales, etc.
In 5 years of PF (so far), I've spent $4255 or an average of $709/year (or $59.10/month) on just the books.
Neither example above includes tax or shipping either!
I've not included the books or APs in Golarion that were written for 3.5 in either of these totals (it would be muddy if it was a 3.5 vs PF discussion or non-Golarion vs Golarion discussion). I haven't included the PF modules I own either (I only started buying those recently).
Not sure what the point is. If you're a gamer, you should insure the bookcase though, since with maps and minis and more, it probably has $10,000 on its shelves, most of which is hard to replace.
Interestingly, I should stop now, since there's a lifetime of gaming to be had, yet I'd still likely be pulled into starting the cycle over again with Pathfinder 2e.
Hmm, with PF I currently now have all the AP's so that's 92 x 20 (around that, I know they are a little more now...but it's an average) = 1840 (wow, that's more than I thought it was).
12 Rulebooks = ~30 apiece = 12 x 30 = 360
21 3.5 modules which are about 21x2 = 42
24 PF modules at around 15 dollars apiece (more now, but averaging) = 360
And a few companion/campaign books around 100
For a grand total of 1840+360+42+360+100 = 2702.
now where close to that $4255 for me. Of course it does not count the novels or other items like the RotRL anniversary edition or Shackled City or my Dungeon collection or Emerald Spire and I did average out some of the prices (and go with the lower prices that the 3.5 modules go for now)...but still...
I guess I'm not as big a spender as some here.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It's the subscriptions that added up for me. Years pass and you don't really audit what you're spending.
Granted, my "insurance sheet" factors in the retail price (since that's the cost to replace them, right?) and it would actually be a little less expensive with the Advantage discount.
(As you can tell by my subscriber line, I've finally stopped several subscriptions. Giantslayer is the first AP I haven't collected.)
I'm pretty sure I'd pick it up in 2018 when it's in the $5/chapter bargain bin for a Great Golem Sale though.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Issues of OGL and copyright aren't exactly on my mind now, I'm more concerned about the fate of 3.X mechanically.
|
Honestly i tried to read all this to find my answer, but well...... I gave up. So sorry if this has already been answered.
Just as an FYI ... you resurrected a 3-year old thread that isn't actually even talking about the current new edition.
There is, however, an entire section of the forums dedicated to the actual playtest of the new edition - you will have a lot better luck if you ask your questions about Pathfinder 2 there instead of here in a really old thread ...
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Issues of OGL and copyright aren't exactly on my mind now, I'm more concerned about the fate of 3.X mechanically.
The books are still there. They're fine. Nobody hurt them. You are free to use them to your heart's content.
Dude. I found the preorder books on amazon and did a google search that brought me here. It would have been nice for a link instead of someone telling me im in the wrong place..... Even a stranger on the side of the road can point a finger. Thanks for nothing.
Thread necromancy is poor netiquette everywhere. It would be more appropriate for you to apologize, then ask.
As long as you can find players.
Oh no. Actually having to face a moderately relevant conversation for literally every game on the planet that isn't 5e or Pathfinder. However shall one cope?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Damn, TOZ, the T stands for "troll" today, doesn't it? : )
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Successful Troll not know what you mean. T always stand for troll.
Damn, TOZ, the T stands for "troll" today, doesn't it? : )
Today?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Will pathfinder 2.0 be copyright protected or open source?
Pretty much everything Paizo does is copyright protected.
Though they are generous in allowing it to appear on the internet.
Pathfinder 2 sounds like it's going to be a very different (and easier to learn) game compared to Pathfinder 1. It's not just "minimal changes to justify selling you a new book".
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Will pathfinder 2.0 be copyright protected or open source?Pretty much everything Paizo does is copyright protected.
Though they are generous in allowing it to appear on the internet.
Pathfinder 2 sounds like it's going to be a very different (and easier to learn) game compared to Pathfinder 1. It's not just "minimal changes to justify selling you a new book".
This isn't true at all.
Almost everything Paizo does is open source through the OGL.
PF2 is going to be as well- I see almost no way they could make it not, since they are still building on and revising from the original 3.0 OGL.
Golarian will be copyright as it always has been, but the rules text is going to be partially OGL, and likely mostly unless Paizo really wants to get into much more complicated declarations of open content than they have to date.
Pretty much everything committed to paper or electrons is protected by copyright. The question comes in how those copyrights are protected.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
OGL does not mean no copyright.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I say it again. A reboot is not inevitable.
I hate to break it to you, as I share your opinion that "Pathfinder is so critically linked to 3.5 that a reboot would be antithetical to the basic premise of Pathfinder."
However the truth is, it is inevitable.
The reason Pathfinder was based on/critically linked to 3.5, is that it was created as an effort to preserve and develop 3.5....which had many devoted followers (myself among them).
That worked for them for ten + years......however, they have now set their sites elsewhere.
All the wining and complaining in the world is not going to change the fact that they are looking to capture a different target audience than the old 3.5 fans.
Our time is done evidently ;)
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
The D20 system is almost 20-years old (18 to be precise), so I see no problem upgrading it, especially since P2E will have a LOT of key components from P1E.
The ONLY problem I see is this: when Pathfinder came out, I could still use my old D&D 3.5E materials in the meantime. For P2E however, barely any news has been announced about a convertion guide. Furthermore, P1E lasted for 10 years. I don't think that rebooting everything is going to be favorable, especially when their lore is going to move forward with whatever happened in APs. What they should do for the next 2 years is to put out convertion guides for all classes, races and monsters that cover all 10 years and THEN start publishing new materials with the new rules.
I mean, are we REALLY going to wait another 10 years to get new monsters in a 7th Bestiary?
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
P2E may be inevitable, but its success is not. I guess I should be grateful for the new edition since when it comes out, I'll finally be able to cancel all these subscriptions and save ~$100+ a month.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Thread necromancy is poor netiquette everywhere. It would be more appropriate for you to apologize, then ask.
It is my reason for being!
I don't think it's inevitable. However, many of the steps by Paizo to add to the system of late would be much better served by a 2nd edition. It's also where the system is being pushed by default whether through gradual evolution or an all-at-once release. There's no sense of permanency to the rules as is with FAQs being used as errata. It makes buying the books a really hollow proposition, and their revenues would tank if everyone just bought PDFs.
I disagree. PDFs, I think as I'll explain later, are a major advantage Paizo has over WotC -- especially the interactive maps. Honestly, I'd like to have the opportunity to buy fully laminated versions. I print them using cheap printer ink (printing a 6 x 6 map costs me about $5). My group loves playing on them. Can't do that with D&D as far as I know. So, now, when I advertise in comic book stores for players, I show off the maps. This is how I am going to pull players from 5e. I can beat their DMs.
Paizo's distribution costs should be very minimal for PDFs. No printing costs. Only distribution.
I don't think it's inevitable. However, many of the steps by Paizo to add to the system of late would be much better served by a 2nd edition. It's also where the system is being pushed by default whether through gradual evolution or an all-at-once release. There's no sense of permanency to the rules as is with FAQs being used as errata. It makes buying the books a really hollow proposition, and their revenues would tank if everyone just bought PDFs.I disagree. PDFs, I think as I'll explain later, are a major advantage Paizo has over WotC -- especially the interactive maps. Honestly, I'd like to have the opportunity to buy fully laminated versions. I print them using cheap printer ink (printing a 6 x 6 map costs me about $5). My group loves playing on them. Can't do that with D&D as far as I know. So, now, when I advertise in comic book stores for players, I show off the maps. This is how I am going to pull players from 5e. I can beat their DMs.
Paizo's distribution costs should be very minimal for PDFs. No printing costs. Only distribution.
I think Paizo would compete with D&D 5e just fine using 1st edition if they would market the following major advantages:
1. Printable, interactive and beautifully illustrated maps that you can play on during gaming sessions.
2. Electronically searchable PDFs that provide an unparalleled GMing experience. Ever wondering what Garmen Ulreth is up to? Search the PDFs in the campaign for all references to Garmen.
3. Use the pawn PDFs to print and put on the map exactly the monsters in your encounters -- no more stand-in pawns. Want to have your party fight 6 Warden Robots? Print 6 and put them on the map.
4. Paizo has a LOT more optional rule books than D&D 5e. My players (and I) are just now coming to grips with this. Experienced players are getting tired of playing the core classes. They are really getting into playing all the extremely different and innovative classes available in the optional books. Investigator, Kinetisist, etc. Gobs and gobs of really cool classes your not going to get in D&D 5e.
I really think that D&D 5e is clobbering us right now in the comic books stores strictly because of a marketing problem. Realizing this, I am starting to leverage the above advantages in my ads to get players for my campaigns.
Really, Paizo has WotC beat -- and beat them a long time ago. Paizo just needs to realize this if they haven't and advertise in comic books stores with posters highlighting all their major advantages.
Makes me sad to see such an obviously supperior game system not get the attention and marketing it deserves.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Unchained was merely my play test. I will remove the imperfections in your system. Improve it. Replace it. Progress is inevitable. And I am progress.
You're just an alpha test for me.
Thread necromancy is poor netiquette everywhere. It would be more appropriate for you to apologize, then ask.
Playing a netcop also is poor netiquette, IIRC. Also, thread necromancy happens all the time on the Paizo forums and we had a big discussion why that happens years ago as well.
|
I say it again. A reboot is not inevitable.I hate to break it to you, as I share your opinion that "Pathfinder is so critically linked to 3.5 that a reboot would be antithetical to the basic premise of Pathfinder."
However the truth is, it is inevitable.
The reason Pathfinder was based on/critically linked to 3.5, is that it was created as an effort to preserve and develop 3.5....which had many devoted followers (myself among them).
That worked for them for ten + years......however, they have now set their sites elsewhere.
All the wining and complaining in the world is not going to change the fact that they are looking to capture a different target audience than the old 3.5 fans.
Our time is done evidently ;)
You do realize you're responding to a post from 2015?
I find it funny that two people marked this as a "favorite".
I think Paizo would compete with D&D 5e just fine using 1st edition if they would market the following major advantages:
1. Printable, interactive and beautifully illustrated maps that you can play on during gaming sessions.
2. Electronically searchable PDFs that provide an unparalleled GMing experience. Ever wondering what Garmen Ulreth is up to? Search the PDFs in the campaign for all references to Garmen.
3. Use the pawn PDFs to print and put on the map exactly the monsters in your encounters -- no more stand-in pawns. Want to have your party fight 6 Warden Robots? Print 6 and put them on the map.
4. Paizo has a LOT more optional rule books than D&D 5e. My players (and I) are just now coming to grips with this. Experienced players are getting tired of playing the core classes. They are really getting into playing all the extremely different and innovative...
1-3 really is only a perk for GMs, and even then I would say of minor benefit (and those PDFs don't exactly endeavor store owners to Paizo). Paizo is getting clobbered simply because Pathfinder as a rule system is far less intuitive for new players, versus 5E. I agree on 4, which is basically what 2E seems to be based on, giving that they are streamlining the rules while adding more complexity in character options
I say it again. A reboot is not inevitable.I hate to break it to you, as I share your opinion that "Pathfinder is so critically linked to 3.5 that a reboot would be antithetical to the basic premise of Pathfinder."
However the truth is, it is inevitable.
The reason Pathfinder was based on/critically linked to 3.5, is that it was created as an effort to preserve and develop 3.5....which had many devoted followers (myself among them).
That worked for them for ten + years......however, they have now set their sites elsewhere.
All the wining and complaining in the world is not going to change the fact that they are looking to capture a different target audience than the old 3.5 fans.
Our time is done evidently ;)
You do realize you're responding to a post from 2015?
I find it funny that two people marked this as a "favorite".
Actually at the time I didn't :P
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Whee, more "it's old therefore it sucks" posts. Pathfinder isn't bread. If you're bored with it because you've been playing it for a long time, that's one thing, but a new player in 2018 can have just as much fun starting out as a new player in 2009.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Whee, more "it's old therefore it sucks" posts. Pathfinder isn't bread. If you're bored with it because you've been playing it for a long time, that's one thing, but a new player in 2018 can have just as much fun starting out as a new player in 2009.
That's me and my group, and I already bought enough stuff to play for the next ten years and beyond. We just started in October 2017, and we are having a blast. I have been collecting material for almost five years little by little hoping it would eventually get put to good use. Now it is.
I wish Paizo and everyone into it nothing but the best with PF2.
I see no downside to a new version. I do get those into PFS, conventions, and living versions of the game feeling a little different, but this change was inevitable.
We already had the discussion. We will be playing Pathfinder at least until PF3 comes out.
If I were going to go head to head with WotC 5e (which is not necessarily what Paizo is doing with PF2e) I'd probably double down on the Beginner Box. I'd start that with it's simplicity and then keep the rules simple and basic. No expansion beyond the basic rules of the Beginner Box, but create more classes and let the levels go higher.
The Box itself would be changed and be called something else (perhaps Pathfinder Lite or something else to indicate that it is easy to learn and run). That would revamp it as something new, but also advertise it as something that could be as quick and easy to run as 5e or at least get people thinking along those lines.
I'd then have modules, adventures, and other items that kept the line going to be competitive. Perhaps take a 5e role (so PF2e would still be the main focus with msot products) where you only come out with one or two items a year and that if you have supplements you only allow ONE of them to be used with the core rules at any time.
This keeps the simplicity for the beginners, and competes with that ease of learning 5e as well as 5e's thing where you don't have to have a ton of books to run it (and in fact it is strictly promoted to not have that need).
That's me and my group, and I already bought enough stuff to play for the next ten years and beyond. We just started in October 2017, and we are having a blast. I have been collecting material for almost five years little by little hoping it would eventually get put to good use. Now it is.
That's more or less what pulled me out of being very upset at the news.
I'm old enough....I have enough unused material to probably get me through the rest of my gaming life ( have bought just about everything that's come out) :PI originally had plans to still look at 2E, was trying to keep an open mind. But I've seen enough of the material to know I'm not interested in it.
If I were going to go head to head with WotC 5e (which is not necessarily what Paizo is doing with PF2e) I'd probably double down on the Beginner Box. I'd start that with it's simplicity and then keep the rules simple and basic. No expansion beyond the basic rules of the Beginner Box, but create more classes and let the levels go higher.
The Box itself would be changed and be called something else (perhaps Pathfinder Lite or something else to indicate that it is easy to learn and run). That would revamp it as something new, but also advertise it as something that could be as quick and easy to run as 5e or at least get people thinking along those lines.
I'd then have modules, adventures, and other items that kept the line going to be competitive. Perhaps take a 5e role (so PF2e would still be the main focus with msot products) where you only come out with one or two items a year and that if you have supplements you only allow ONE of them to be used with the core rules at any time.
This keeps the simplicity for the beginners, and competes with that ease of learning 5e as well as 5e's thing where you don't have to have a ton of books to run it (and in fact it is strictly promoted to not have that need).
5E can go with a limited release schedule because they have a very small development team and WoTC makes most of the their money off of Magic, and at any rate has Hasbro can help them out if needed (which is really mostly interested in the IP more than the rpg.
A 5E release schedule for Pathfinder? that would require some massive pay or employee cuts, and just result in a death spiral
Besides, 5E already fills the simplified DnD niche. Pathfinder needs to maintain the complexity of the current game as far as player options go, if they want to carve out there own niche.
If I were going to go head to head with WotC 5e (which is not necessarily what Paizo is doing with PF2e) I'd probably double down on the Beginner Box. I'd start that with it's simplicity and then keep the rules simple and basic. No expansion beyond the basic rules of the Beginner Box, but create more classes and let the levels go higher.
The Box itself would be changed and be called something else (perhaps Pathfinder Lite or something else to indicate that it is easy to learn and run). That would revamp it as something new, but also advertise it as something that could be as quick and easy to run as 5e or at least get people thinking along those lines.
I'd then have modules, adventures, and other items that kept the line going to be competitive. Perhaps take a 5e role (so PF2e would still be the main focus with msot products) where you only come out with one or two items a year and that if you have supplements you only allow ONE of them to be used with the core rules at any time.
This keeps the simplicity for the beginners, and competes with that ease of learning 5e as well as 5e's thing where you don't have to have a ton of books to run it (and in fact it is strictly promoted to not have that need).
5E can go with a limited release schedule because they have a very small development team and WoTC makes most of the their money off of Magic, and at any rate has Hasbro can help them out if needed (which is really mostly interested in the IP more than the rpg.
A 5E release schedule for Pathfinder? that would require some massive pay or employee cuts, and just result in a death spiral
Besides, 5E already fills the simplified DnD niche. Pathfinder needs to maintain the complexity of the current game as far as player options go, if they want to carve out there own niche.
I was saying if Paizo was wanting to go head to head against WOTC (which I'd imagine though they are in the same market, paizo is seeking a different audience/customer desire for their products with PF 1e and 2.0 at this point).
So, this is off the basis that they are still publishing those, but want to go head to head with Wotc 5e. In which case, the main moneymakers are still the Rules and APs along with the cardgame and other products.
They still make their bread and butter off their main lines...PF lite would be a different line directed specifically at the 5e type player separate from their APs, Core rules for PF1e and PF2e, and other products.
The Pathfinder Lite box idea would be specifically to make a grab at the 5e players with simplified and easy to learn rules...rules that could be utilized and sold much in the same way as 5e...hence the slow release rate. They don't have to divert all their resources to it in that instance.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Paizo have explicitly stated they don't want to compete with WotC in that direct way.
That's me and my group, and I already bought enough stuff to play for the next ten years and beyond. We just started in October 2017, and we are having a blast. I have been collecting material for almost five years little by little hoping it would eventually get put to good use. Now it is.That's more or less what pulled me out of being very upset at the news.
I'm old enough....I have enough unused material to probably get me through the rest of my gaming life ( have bought just about everything that's come out) :PI originally had plans to still look at 2E, was trying to keep an open mind. But I've seen enough of the material to know I'm not interested in it.
Same on all. I have played enough versions of this game to realize that no version is going to be fully satisfying, or what I would consider perfect. Pathfinder is about as close as it will ever get, and I already have all the stuff.
I do get the excitement of playing a living, breathing, expanding product. I play MTGO, and the constant freshness is a big plus.
For someone as OCD as myself, there is also a certain satisfaction to owning and playing a complete, finished product.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
That's me and my group, and I already bought enough stuff to play for the next ten years and beyond. We just started in October 2017, and we are having a blast. I have been collecting material for almost five years little by little hoping it would eventually get put to good use. Now it is.That's more or less what pulled me out of being very upset at the news.
I'm old enough....I have enough unused material to probably get me through the rest of my gaming life ( have bought just about everything that's come out) :PI originally had plans to still look at 2E, was trying to keep an open mind. But I've seen enough of the material to know I'm not interested in it.
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Hey this was a fun thread to resurrect. It had a snapshot of my 2015 Pathfinder spending rate in it about two dozen posts up from this one.
Ironically this thread was part of the self-reflection that Pathfinder 2E was so imminent that I ended up canceling all my subscriptions and did indeed wait until clearance prices on the things that have been coming out since 2015 (along with much stricter contemplation on if a purchase was really necessary, i.e. I still haven't picked up Ultimate Wilderness).
So far my core player group has responded with meh on the Playtest Preview items for PF2E, so there's a steeper uphill climb that I would have expected (I also expected PF2e to be more like 3.85e and easier to keep playing Ultimate XYZ classes alongside PF2e core classes alongside our current investment in APs). I'd actually think it would be a few years into PF2e's life before there's a real shot that we invest in a material number of books, mostly because there's still a lot of playing space left for our group to try classes they haven't played yet versus play a reimagined 2e fighter/wizard/etc. Some of the player hesitation is also their general feel is that PF2e characters will be less powerful at 1st-5th level than their 2e counterparts.
Time, as always, will tell...
I'd be surprised if 2E PCs would be weaker than their 1E counterparts. Players gladly take power upgrades and become unhappy when their powers are reduced.
It's all relative though: If monsters improve faster than PCs, the game becomes tougher despite more powerful PCs. The same happens if the monsters stay the same, but their official CRs are reduced - the GM will create a tougher encounter for the same XP budget (assuming he builds encounters that way).
Hey look at it this way, if 2e flops, they will go back to making 1e material.