Deadmanwalking |
Deadmanwalking wrote:In fairness, no more than any other Weapon Finesse Rogue. Which is still sucking, don't get me wrong, but it's the Rogue part that sucks, not the Halfling.Well, the lack of darkvision and 20ft movement speed hurts too.
Eh, they can get 30 foot movement pretty easily with an alternate racial trait, and lots of people lack Darkvision. It's mostly the Rogue.
Ascalaphus |
Lack of darkvision is more problematic for a rogue though. If you want to infiltrate a place under cover of darkness, darkvision is a very important ability. If you want to sneak attack something in poor or no light, again you want darkvision.
If you absolutely want to play a small stealthy rogue, wayangs totally outclass halflings.
Deadmanwalking |
Lack of darkvision is more problematic for a rogue though. If you want to infiltrate a place under cover of darkness, darkvision is a very important ability. If you want to sneak attack something in poor or no light, again you want darkvision.
True enough...I'm just noting that most races lack Darkvision, making the Halfling not any worse than, say, a Human in this regard.
If you absolutely want to play a small stealthy rogue, wayangs totally outclass halflings.
This is pretty clearly true. Wayangs are pretty cool.
HyperMissingno |
Lack of darkvision is more problematic for a rogue though. If you want to infiltrate a place under cover of darkness, darkvision is a very important ability. If you want to sneak attack something in poor or no light, again you want darkvision.
To be fair there's quite a few sources for temporary and permanent darkvision.
Ascalaphus |
Yeah, a halfling Slayer7/Shadowdancer3+/more Slayer would be nice. A rogue in all but name, just a lot better.
It ought to be said though, halflings make decent ninjas. Ninjas can get darkvision through a talent, and their Ki is Charisma-based. Hence why I think halfling ninjas are way better than halfling rogues.
lemeres |
Deathknight69 wrote:Hey gang, What classes are Halfling's best suited for ??Halflings? Best used as ammunition. Preferably flaming.
Wouldn't it be groaning and (golden) raining too?
Although some might be whistling depending on whether they noticed that they are being shot out yet.
Gisher |
What do you think of a Halfling rogue?
I much prefer Archaeologist Bard. It has all of my favorite Rogue abilities: uncanny dodge, trap finding and disabling, evasion, and rogue talents. Archaeologist's luck stacks with halfling luck, and I would rather have spells than sneak attack. Fencing grace, arcane strike, and risky striker provide a decent damage base for a melee fighter, or you could build a reasonably good archer.
cnetarian |
They have a CHR and DEX bonus which makes them suitable for CHR & DEX based classes and risky striker makes up for the STR penalty for STR based classes. I think the halfling race rules favor melee builds over missile builds because risky striker stacks with Power Attack, halflings can hit really hard. Being small also lets halflings ride inside many dungeons/buildings, which makes them the goto choice for mounted builds unless you know you are going to be outside. The classes which gain little or nothing from being halfling are wizard, cleric, alchemist & druid - maybe some of the hybrid classes, haven't played with them enough to see what halflings can do with them. Monk is where halflings really shine, a well built halfling monk is tough to match with any other race - the same seems to apply to brawlers, but I haven't seen enough of brawlers in action to know.
UnArcaneElection |
For Giantslayer, if I could get into a PbP of this, I am thinking of Halfling debuffing Witch making use of Jinx and eventually Area Jinx and Jinxed Spell (both separately and in combination). Powerful single targets and eventually powerful multiple targets are going to have very unlucky days.
Giantslayer sounds like it might be the one AP in which the Mouser archetype of Swashbuckler might actually be not terrible for a Medium character; for everything else (unless somebody does a PF conversion of Against the Giants, what do people think of this archetype for a Halfling? (Besides, even in Giantslayer, the Halfling Mouser would be better in the first chapter -- a Medium Mouser would need to start off as something else.)
Rerednaw |
I'd probably break it down by bonuses.
What do Halflings have going for them?
Dex, Cha, small size (bonus to hit, defense, and stealth).
Racial bonus to saves.
Who focuses on dex?
Ranged characters.
Who focuses on cha?
Cha casters such as sorcerers, alchemists, and bards. And Paladins.
I'd consider a halfling archer paladin, archer bard, or alchemist.
If paladin, halfling favored class bonus for Paladin is very nice along with stacked saving throws bonuses. Get a riding dog and you pretty much don't have to worry about mobility, not that archers need that much anyway.
Deadmanwalking |
Cha casters such as sorcerers, alchemists, and bards. And Paladins.
Alchemists are Int-based, actually.
There are also several other Classes that they're good at for various reasons, as mentioned repeatedly above, including Witch (due to the whole Jinx line) and Swashbuckler or Daring Champion Cavalier (due to being Dexterity/Charisma based).
Though they do make excellent Sorcerers, Bards, and Paladins, as well as ranged characters in general.
Rerednaw |
I'd probably break it down by bonuses.
What do Halflings have going for them?
Dex, Cha, small size (bonus to hit, defense, and stealth).
Racial bonus to saves.Who focuses on dex?
Ranged characters.
Who focuses on cha?
Cha casters such as sorcerers, summoners, and bards. And Paladins.I'd consider a halfling archer paladin, archer bard, or alchemist.
If paladin, halfling favored class bonus for Paladin is very nice along with stacked saving throws bonuses. Get a riding dog and you pretty much don't have to worry about mobility, not that archers need that much anyway.
Had alchemists on the brain, I meant summoners...
Edit: Ninja'd.
Deadmanwalking |
Eryx_UK wrote:Haflings make good rogues, bards, druids, sorcerers and anything where their pants size weapon damage isn't going to be a hindrance.The die difference in small/medium weapons is pretty trivial once you hit 3rd or 4th level.
Especially with Risky Striker jacking up their damage.
UnArcaneElection |
^Whoa, that's a pretty good scaling Combat Feat -- almost like having a chain of 5 Weapon Specialization feats for the price of 1, but you don't have to stay in Fighter to get the full benefit, just in full BAB, and it works with all of your weapons (and presumably Unarmed Strike as well, so Monk would be not bad despite being 3/4 BAB).
HyperMissingno |
The best class for halflings is commoner. Commoners make the most tractable slaves. Any Chelaxian could tell you that.
No, no, no, you want an Expert! They get 6 + Int in skill points, commoners only get 2 + Int! If you're gonna have a slave they might as well be able to do as many things for you as possible.
Deadmanwalking |
^Whoa, that's a pretty good scaling Combat Feat -- almost like having a chain of 5 Weapon Specialization feats for the price of 1, but you don't have to stay in Fighter to get the full benefit, just in full BAB, and it works with all of your weapons (and presumably Unarmed Strike as well, so Monk would be not bad despite being 3/4 BAB).
As others note, there is the size limitation. Plus the necessity of being a Halfling. Still, it's very much one of the reasons Halfling melee characters are viable.
And Monks count as full BAB for stuff like this while flurrying.
UnArcaneElection |
Do note that Risky Striker only works on large and larger creatures so its usefulness is dependent on the DM.
Oops, I misread the number of size categories required. But still, a Halfling full martial or Monk could really shine in Giantslayer, especially with even 1 level of dip into Mouser (archetype of Swashbuckler).
HyperMissingno |
HyperMissingno wrote:Do note that Risky Striker only works on large and larger creatures so its usefulness is dependent on the DM.Oops, I misread the number of size categories required. But still, a Halfling full martial or Monk could really shine in Giantslayer, especially with even 1 level of dip into Mouser (archetype of Swashbuckler).
It seems a dip in Mouser also solves the Risky Striker problem of needing to get too close to medium creatures when shrunk...assuming they miss.
cnetarian |
UnArcaneElection wrote:It seems a dip in Mouser also solves the Risky Striker problem of needing to get too close to medium creatures when shrunk...assuming they miss.HyperMissingno wrote:Do note that Risky Striker only works on large and larger creatures so its usefulness is dependent on the DM.Oops, I misread the number of size categories required. But still, a Halfling full martial or Monk could really shine in Giantslayer, especially with even 1 level of dip into Mouser (archetype of Swashbuckler).
I took a look at the mouser and it seems the halfling should do pretty well as a mouser (or any swashbuckler) in a campaign even without risky striker being used. Cannot say for sure because of lack of experience but a dexterity/charisma based class using one-handed weapons has "halfling" written all over it.
Scott Wilhelm |
I think the small size combines nicely with Snake Fang. If you get it via 2 levels in Monk Master of Many Styles, you have no Flurry to lose by wearing Armor. Wear Armor. I had a level 2 PFS Halfling Ranger/MOMS Monk with an AC of 22 10 + 3 Dex16 + 1 Size +6 Agile Breastplate +2 Large Shield. Pretty hard target. And with Snake Fang, the more you are missed, the more attacks you get. He was going to get 6/round. His Saves were pretty good, too: Fort +6, Reflex +8, Will +5.
Take a few levels in Rogue or Ninja (or Vivisectionist if this isn't PFS) for Sneak Attack Damage, and learn Sap Master. Your base Weapon Damage Scales down with your size, but your Sneak Attack Damage doesn't. My 2 favorite ways of securing that you do get your Sneak Attack Damage are the Ninja Vanishing Trick and the Quick and Great dirty trick feats. Make your opponents Blind: no vision, no Dex Mod, you get Sneak Attack. Does your opponent have Blindsight or Blind Fighting? So, you have to use your Dirty Tricks to make him Deaf, too: no problem. Does your opponent have Scent? Negate Aroma is a level 1 Ranger Spell: get a wand. Plus, when your opponents are Blinded, you enjoy a Total Concealment 50% Miss Chance: more AoO's from Snake Fang.
If you're relying on the Ninja Vanishing Trick for your Sneak Attack Damage, you should use a single big weapon, maybe. Try an Earthbreaker backed up with Power Attack and Sap Master. That seems like an inexpensive way to do a lot of damage in 1 hit.
People mentioned Risky Striker and Power Attack. They get my vote, too.
Also, I like the Fleet-Footed Racial Trait.
LazarX |
Lack of darkvision is more problematic for a rogue though. If you want to infiltrate a place under cover of darkness, darkvision is a very important ability. If you want to sneak attack something in poor or no light, again you want darkvision.
If you absolutely want to play a small stealthy rogue, wayangs totally outclass halflings.
Darkvision only matters if you're infiltrating a dark cave. Most of the places you're infiltrating will have some level of light upon them.
David knott 242 |
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David knott 242 wrote:No, no, no, you want an Expert! They get 6 + Int in skill points, commoners only get 2 + Int! If you're gonna have a slave they might as well be able to do as many things for you as possible.The best class for halflings is commoner. Commoners make the most tractable slaves. Any Chelaxian could tell you that.
No, those uppity know-it-alls are smart enough to organize mass escapes and rebellions. The less they can think, the better.
cnetarian |
HyperMissingno wrote:David knott 242 wrote:No, no, no, you want an Expert! They get 6 + Int in skill points, commoners only get 2 + Int! If you're gonna have a slave they might as well be able to do as many things for you as possible.The best class for halflings is commoner. Commoners make the most tractable slaves. Any Chelaxian could tell you that.
No, those uppity know-it-alls are smart enough to organize mass escapes and rebellions. The less they can think, the better.
Well played sir, well played.
Atarlost |
Haflings make good rogues, bards, druids, sorcerers and anything where their pants size weapon damage isn't going to be a hindrance.
Actually, halflings make terrible druids. Small races don't get polymorph adjustments. You don't get back the strength penalty for being small when shaping medium or larger, but medium druids do get the dex bonus for shaping small or smaller. You don't get screwed over by the polymorph rules quite as badly as, say, a centaur druid, but it's not good.