General Discussion: Psychic


Rules Discussion

101 to 150 of 211 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | next > last >>
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

Jester David wrote:
As the two options are connected, with the discipline determining the phrenic pool’s ability score, it’s odd that the discipline powers don’t use phrenic points. It makes the two class features needlessly dissociative. I think it’d be much more interesting if disciplines offered set uses for the phrenic pool, providing different ways of...

A very astute observation! I think this is a good direction for the class and connecting the phrenic pool and discipline would likely mean fewer things to track and perhaps more value from the discipline abilities. That alone could go a long way in beefing up the class's options in the early levels.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'd actually stop griping about the lack of options at levels one and two if they upgraded the spell progression to full wizard level. Keeping them Spontaneous/Spells known is fine, but the spells are limited enough (no rays, very little battlefield control, no healing or summoning) that I think having 2nd level spells at level three is called for.

Paizo Employee Developer

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Mikael Sebag wrote:
Jester David wrote:
As the two options are connected, with the discipline determining the phrenic pool’s ability score, it’s odd that the discipline powers don’t use phrenic points. It makes the two class features needlessly dissociative. I think it’d be much more interesting if disciplines offered set uses for the phrenic pool, providing different ways of...
A very astute observation! I think this is a good direction for the class and connecting the phrenic pool and discipline would likely mean fewer things to track and perhaps more value from the discipline abilities. That alone could go a long way in beefing up the class's options in the early levels.

We currently have a problem with a lot of our 9-level casters, particularly the sorcerer and wizard, that it's difficult to make interesting archetypes for them because so much is tied up in their spell list. One of the reasons the connection between the phrenic pool and discipline is fairly minor is so that archetypes can replace one or the other and still feel like a psychic.

The other reason is that the phrenic pool is meant to be used in a very specific way: to amp up the power of spells as you cast them. It's not intended to be a catch-all pool of points to use on whatever. We have plenty of classes that do that. :)

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

Logan Bonner wrote:

We currently have a problem with a lot of our 9-level casters, particularly the sorcerer and wizard, that it's difficult to make interesting archetypes for them because so much is tied up in their spell list. One of the reasons the connection between the phrenic pool and discipline is fairly minor is so that archetypes can replace one or the other and still feel like a psychic.

The other reason is that the phrenic pool is meant to be used in a very specific way: to amp up the power of spells as you cast them. It's not intended to be a catch-all pool of points to use on whatever. We have plenty of classes that do that. :)

Oooh, good point!

I had forgotten that more class features facilitate archetypes (and I LOVE archetypes, so I fully support design decisions that ease their incorporation and proliferation within the system). I think I have to rescind my previous sentiments in light of this consideration...!

Really, this just goes to show how differently we all conceive of class design, since arguments on both side are pretty convincing. I think it's easy to forget just how many classes already have features that have nothing to do with one another (e.g. arcane bond, wizard bonus feats, and school specialization). The impulse to streamline a class while it's still in development is so strong that we fail to remember streamlining is, too some extent, inconsistent with design philosophy that's already embedded in the system. The modularity of class features like the phrenic pool and discipline is consistent with how existing classes work, meaning that the OA classes will not be total outliers in all respects. Plus, like I said before, MOAR ARCHETYPES!!!

Silver Crusade

I don't know about anyone else, but when I think of "Psychics," my mind goes to StarCraft, where we have the traditional mind reading and rending, but then also we have people with the ability to create weapons from force of will alone, cause psychic induced storms that eradicate entire armies, people crushing ships with their mind and in one case someone deconstructing themselves into pure psychic energy to toss themselves at an enemy previously though imortal.

That being said, this is not nearly representative of all psychics in fiction, in fact I think it's a minority reserved for Sci-Fi :-P My point is I feel psychics need more spells that aren't mind affecting, but rather where they use their mind to impose their will on the world around them, A good way to do this I think would be more force spells than just magic missile and perhaps some blast-y spells (though I'm not a HUGE fan of those). Just SOMETHING that makes them feel less useless when they're against mindless creatures and have to resort to whacking a dinosaur skeleton with their longsword as their barbarian can't seem to roll above a 7 (please don't ask).

TL;DR: Spells that make a psychic's will manifest in the physical realm (like force spells) rather than just the mental one would be really nice in making the class more fun and versatile (namely at lower levels)

Also, psychic warrior Magus in a similar vein as the Spellblade (and Protoss Zealots) archetype would be AWESOME

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

Phylotus wrote:
TL;DR: Spells that make a psychic's will manifest in the physical realm (like force spells) rather than just the mental one would be really nice in making the class more fun and versatile (namely at lower levels)

Logan said upthread that there will be more such spells for the psychic when the full book is released. :)

Liberty's Edge

Well first game...level 1 mod

The psychic got crit and died.....30pts dmg. 7hp and 10 con.

Toon was fun. But very very limited.

At level 1 bleed was my friend.
The mind blast 1 was good and abomination form was a hoot.

Despite dying the level 1 psychic did significant damage to everything with bleed. . I would like see more offensive abilities.


Logan Bonner wrote:
Mikael Sebag wrote:
Jester David wrote:
As the two options are connected, with the discipline determining the phrenic pool’s ability score, it’s odd that the discipline powers don’t use phrenic points. It makes the two class features needlessly dissociative. I think it’d be much more interesting if disciplines offered set uses for the phrenic pool, providing different ways of...
A very astute observation! I think this is a good direction for the class and connecting the phrenic pool and discipline would likely mean fewer things to track and perhaps more value from the discipline abilities. That alone could go a long way in beefing up the class's options in the early levels.

We currently have a problem with a lot of our 9-level casters, particularly the sorcerer and wizard, that it's difficult to make interesting archetypes for them because so much is tied up in their spell list. One of the reasons the connection between the phrenic pool and discipline is fairly minor is so that archetypes can replace one or the other and still feel like a psychic.

The other reason is that the phrenic pool is meant to be used in a very specific way: to amp up the power of spells as you cast them. It's not intended to be a catch-all pool of points to use on whatever. We have plenty of classes that do that. :)

That's a shame to hear. Was hoping for some more unique options to make the psychic feel like its own class rather than a sorcerer archetype.

Silver Crusade

Mikael Sebag wrote:
Phylotus wrote:
TL;DR: Spells that make a psychic's will manifest in the physical realm (like force spells) rather than just the mental one would be really nice in making the class more fun and versatile (namely at lower levels)
Logan said upthread that there will be more such spells for the psychic when the full book is released. :)

Ah, must've missed it somewhere. Thanks a bunch :-)

Liberty's Edge

Does Mind Thrust work on snake swarms?

Lantern Lodge

The psychic definitely needs all of the detect spells. He at least needs detect lies. I was expecting to see magic jar on the list, but I'd also like to see a spell that acts the same way, but instead of trapping one mind it targets two minds and switches them. Is there a spell like that? Mind Swap? Freaky Friday? Parasitic Soul (Lv9) has some psychic flare to it, too.

One thing I have considered is that the inherent strength of the psychic (the casting through thought and emotion) is also an inherent weakness to emotion spells and effects, which up until now were pretty useless. Do morale affects count as emotion affects? That would mean a psychic couldn't cast if under the effect of a bardic performance. And does demoralizing count as a fear effect? Can I intimidate a psychic to take away its casting for a round?

@Cronge: The spell "Mind Thrust" targets one creature. Swarms can't be targeted as one creature. Even if you can affect creature immune to mind-affecting, there are thousands of creatures in that swarm. That's why you always keep a vial of alchemist fire on you.

Liberty's Edge

Corneleus Idaho wrote:
@Cronge: The spell "Mind Thrust" targets one creature. Swarms can't be targeted as one creature. Even if you can affect creature immune to mind-affecting, there are thousands of creatures in that swarm. That's why you always keep a vial of alchemist fire on you.

A swarm is a collection of Fine, Diminutive, or Tiny creatures that acts as a single creature.

A swarm is immune to any spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures (including single-target spells such as disintegrate), with the exception of mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms) if the swarm has an Intelligence score and a hive mind. A swarm takes half again as much damage (+50%) from spells or effects that affect an area, such as splash weapons and many evocation spells.

Oh, and Snake Swarm is an animal, not vermin.

Lantern Lodge

Yes, so the snake swarm has intelligence, but doesn't possess the hive mind ability.

Liberty's Edge

Kk... the swarm needs an Intelligence of 3 or more. Cool!

Lantern Lodge

Yeah, I'm still searching for a creature swarm that has an intelligence of 3 or higher. So far the only creature I can find with hive mind is a Formian. It's funny, I was researching this last week when I was trying to make an occult adventures character whose profession was a bee keeper. Still trying to figure that out. So far the vermin hunter archetype is the only one that has any real affect on swarms that aren't summoned.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Hellwasp swarms. Nasty buggers.

Lantern Lodge

The hive mentality seems to be psychic by its nature. I think its only fitting that psychics or mesmerists should have some way to control swarms or even create a hive mentality among allies so they can be treated as a troup. And likewise, a hivemind psychic might have the ability to share teamwork feats.


So, was perusing the Psychic spell list, and I noticed something odd.

Is Permanency a lv5 Psychic spell, or a Lv6 Psychic spell? Because it shows up on both.

Dark Archive

Love the Psychic! As a big psionics fan (as my name should indicate) I'm happy to see a version of this power returning to Golarion officially. My questions are below.

Psychic Questions

- What is the saving throw DC for supernatural Psychic Discipline abilities that allow saves, e.g. the Pain discipline's Agonizing Wound? What about the ones that mimic spells, such as Tranquility discipline's Calming Presence SLA?

- What action is it to activate Phrenic Amplifications? Is it part of casting the spell, a swift action, a free action, what? (For example, what action is needed to use Intense Focus or Conjured Armor?)

- Does Complex Countermeasure make your psychic spells harder to dispel and counter? Does it make them harder to identify with Spellcraft?

- Can you choose whether or not to use your Wis/Cha mod for Conjured Armor? As written, if you reach 8th level but have less than 14 in either stat, the AC bonus this grants will actually go down.

- Can Coaxing Spell be used with Psychic Magic? Can Psychics use Metamagic Rods?

- What happens if the SLA from Remade Self is dispelled? Can it be reinstated? Does that happen on its own or must the ability be retrained?

- As written, a "dark half" Abomination Psychic can't ever change back on her own because she cannot make the concentration check to dismiss Dark Half. Please add this to the abilities that a Psychic can concentrate on while in dark half mode.

- Can a Lore Psychic use Illuminating Answer as many times per day as they have divinations to cast?

- Can Automatic Writing be combined with Illuminating Answer?

- How close to you does an ally have to be to benefit from the Tranquility discipline's Mental Placidity?

- What kinds of prestige classes can Psychics qualify for? Does it have to be a PrC where the type of casting (arcane or divine) is not specified, similar to the Shadowcaster from 3.5? Could a Psychic qualify for Pathfinder Savant?

Psychic Magic questions:

- How can Psychic Spells be identified by other casters while being cast if they have no verbal/somatic components and no Displays? Can an invisible Psychic be noticed at all?

- How do touch spells like Bull's Strength work without somatic components? If a Psychic casts such a spell while paralyzed, what happens?

- Is Mind Thrust intended to be mind-affecting? Right now it isn't.

Liberty's Edge

Logan Bonner wrote:
Mikael Sebag wrote:
Jester David wrote:
As the two options are connected, with the discipline determining the phrenic pool’s ability score, it’s odd that the discipline powers don’t use phrenic points. It makes the two class features needlessly dissociative. I think it’d be much more interesting if disciplines offered set uses for the phrenic pool, providing different ways of...
A very astute observation! I think this is a good direction for the class and connecting the phrenic pool and discipline would likely mean fewer things to track and perhaps more value from the discipline abilities. That alone could go a long way in beefing up the class's options in the early levels.

We currently have a problem with a lot of our 9-level casters, particularly the sorcerer and wizard, that it's difficult to make interesting archetypes for them because so much is tied up in their spell list. One of the reasons the connection between the phrenic pool and discipline is fairly minor is so that archetypes can replace one or the other and still feel like a psychic.

The other reason is that the phrenic pool is meant to be used in a very specific way: to amp up the power of spells as you cast them. It's not intended to be a catch-all pool of points to use on whatever. We have plenty of classes that do that. :)

So to facilitate variants, the base class has to be less cohesive?

I understand the reasoning but making the best class should be the priority and working with archetypes secondary.

Phrenic points also seem like the only thing the class gets unique to it. Swapping that feature out should be rare, like barbarians losing rage or rogues losing sneak attack. So the focus should be on altering not removing.
A psychic without a phrenic pool seems an awful lot like a sorcerer with a thematic choice of spells.


My first thought is that hopefully there will be more unique spells when the book comes out. I'd like the ability to do a psychic link (rather than cast message) to communicate with allies out of the box. Message feels like a mage trick, but mind to mind contact- even if its limited (one ally/limited range for example) feels psychic.

I'd like to be able to create an 'archetypal' psychic with this class. I'm not sure about magic missiles for example, I guess the spell could be reflavored for the psychic to my taste (Psychic force bolt) but I'd like some low level alternative attack spells as well. (A telekinetic blast, or throw object etc)

I think the spell list needs more unique spells (and less dependence on the wizard/sorc spell list) for it to stand on its own. Right now, if someone builds a psychic, it will play and feel like a wizard/sorcerer. I'm not talking about power point/etc. I don't care about that jazz. That's mechanics. I'm talking about about what the character DOES.

Psychics read minds, control minds, levitate, sometimes teleport, speak with dead, have telepathy, see the future, confuse people, and use telekinesis. There might be some things I forgot but that's the jist.

The spell list that you have has Psychics doing a lot of things that psychics really shouldn't be doing, and not emphasizing the the things they SHOULD be doing.

Going back to ye old D&D Clerics and Wizards are/were differentiated by their spells. You can do the same here with the Psychic. But you have to create the spells for it, not having the psychic summon Black Tentacles? That's a wizard thing.

Paizo Employee Developer

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Phylotus wrote:
Mikael Sebag wrote:
Phylotus wrote:
TL;DR: Spells that make a psychic's will manifest in the physical realm (like force spells) rather than just the mental one would be really nice in making the class more fun and versatile (namely at lower levels)
Logan said upthread that there will be more such spells for the psychic when the full book is released. :)
Ah, must've missed it somewhere. Thanks a bunch :-)

For the purposes of the playtest, we also went pretty conservative with what we included on the spell list, sticking to only the stuff we saw as really conceptually suited to psychic magic. We'll be adding in more pre-existing spells as well.

One thing you probably won't be seeing a ton of is energy-based attack spells. Those are more of the kineticist's piece of the psychic pie. So the psychic will be primarily using force spells and physical telekinetic spells for dealing damage.

Paizo Employee Developer

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Espy Lacopa wrote:

So, was perusing the Psychic spell list, and I noticed something odd.

Is Permanency a lv5 Psychic spell, or a Lv6 Psychic spell? Because it shows up on both.

You can take it at both levels to double your fun!

Okay, that's an error. It should be 5th.

Paizo Employee Developer

Jester David wrote:
So to facilitate variants, the base class has to be less cohesive?

I don't consider it less cohesive. Different parts of the class do different things. A psychic has an ability to augment her spells and has a discipline that reflects how she acquires her psychic powers, just like a druid can spontaneously cast summon nature's ally spells and has woodland stride. They're different facets of the class's overall concept.

Paizo Employee Developer

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Robert Carter 58 wrote:
My first thought is that hopefully there will be more unique spells when the book comes out. I'd like the ability to do a psychic link (rather than cast message) to communicate with allies out of the box. Message feels like a mage trick, but mind to mind contact- even if its limited (one ally/limited range for example) feels psychic.

Yes, putting mental communication early will definitely be a priority. Whether that comes as a 0-level spell or a class feature is yet to be determined.

You're right about the spell list, and we've got a lot of spells planned.

Paizo Employee Developer

5 people marked this as a favorite.
Psyren wrote:
- What is the saving throw DC for supernatural Psychic Discipline abilities that allow saves, e.g. the Pain discipline's Agonizing Wound? What about the ones that mimic spells, such as Tranquility discipline's Calming Presence SLA?

10 + 1/2 psychic level + Int mod

Psyren wrote:
- What action is it to activate Phrenic Amplifications? Is it part of casting the spell, a swift action, a free action, what? (For example, what action is needed to use Intense Focus or Conjured Armor?)

It's part of the action used to cast the linked spell.

Psyren wrote:
- Does Complex Countermeasure make your psychic spells harder to dispel and counter? Does it make them harder to identify with Spellcraft?

It's unclear right now, but it should make the spell harder to dispel, counter, and identify.

Psyren wrote:
- Can you choose whether or not to use your Wis/Cha mod for Conjured Armor? As written, if you reach 8th level but have less than 14 in either stat, the AC bonus this grants will actually go down.

Yes, you can use the higher of +2 or your modifier.

Psyren wrote:
- Can Coaxing Spell be used with Psychic Magic? Can Psychics use Metamagic Rods?

Yes. Metamagic works the same way with psychic spells as with any other types.

Psyren wrote:
- What happens if the SLA from Remade Self is dispelled? Can it be reinstated? Does that happen on its own or must the ability be retrained?

It can be resinstated by the psychic using the normal rules for a constant spell-like ability.

Psyren wrote:
- As written, a "dark half" Abomination Psychic can't ever change back on her own because she cannot make the concentration check to dismiss Dark Half. Please add this to the abilities that a Psychic can concentrate on while in dark half mode.

Ha! I think people can probably put two and two together here, but I'll make it a little clearer. :)

Psyren wrote:
- Can a Lore Psychic use Illuminating Answer as many times per day as they have divinations to cast?

Yes. We'll have to make sure there's no easy way to exploit that. If a high-level psychic spams augury and uses up all their 2nd-level spell slots to regain points, I kind of doubt that will be hugely detrimental to a game. We'll have to consider that one further. Haven't seen any playtest feedback yet from someone playing a lore psychic.

Psyren wrote:
- Can Automatic Writing be combined with Illuminating Answer?

Yes. You'd regain 1 point if it acted as augury and 2 if it acted as divination.

Psyren wrote:
- How close to you does an ally have to be to benefit from the Tranquility discipline's Mental Placidity?

There's currently no range limit. If we add one, it will be pretty large, like 500 feet.

Psyren wrote:
- What kinds of prestige classes can Psychics qualify for? Does it have to be a PrC where the type of casting (arcane or divine) is not specified, similar to the Shadowcaster from 3.5? Could a Psychic qualify for Pathfinder Savant?

It has to be one where the type of casting doesn't specify arcane or divine. (We might look at specific ones that unintentionally exclude psychic casters and shouldn't and include a way for psychic casters to access them.) The psychic could qualify for Pathfinder savant. Psychic spells are spells.

Thanks for all the great questions! I'll cover the psychic spell ones in another post.

Paizo Employee Developer

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Psyren wrote:

Psychic Magic questions:

- How can Psychic Spells be identified by other casters while being cast if they have no verbal/somatic components and no Displays? Can an invisible Psychic be noticed at all?

There's always something you can see or otherwise notice. Spell-like abilities have a similar issue, but they too can be noticed.

Psyren wrote:
- How do touch spells like Bull's Strength work without somatic components? If a Psychic casts such a spell while paralyzed, what happens?

Take my answer with a grain of salt, because this is something I'll need to discuss with other team members for the final version. You still have to be able to touch the target. So if you were paralyzed and cast it, you can cast it on yourself or an ally who was deliberately grabbing onto your hand or something. If the spell requires you to hit with a melee touch attack, that's just not going to work when you're paralyzed. (Unless maaaaybe if you were being swallowed by a purple worm and casting it on the worm, but even then I think you'd be out of luck.)

Psyren wrote:
- Is Mind Thrust intended to be mind-affecting? Right now it isn't.

I think that was an omission. Playtest as though it has the mind-affecting descriptor.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Logan Bonner wrote:
Psyren wrote:

Psychic Magic questions:

- How can Psychic Spells be identified by other casters while being cast if they have no verbal/somatic components and no Displays? Can an invisible Psychic be noticed at all?

There's always something you can see or otherwise notice. Spell-like abilities have a similar issue, but they too can be noticed.

Spell-Like Abilities can't be counterspelled as far I know. What about Psychic spells?

Paizo Employee Developer

xevious573 wrote:
Spell-Like Abilities can't be counterspelled as far I know. What about Psychic spells?

Psychic spells are spells.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Logan Bonner wrote:
Psyren wrote:
- Is Mind Thrust intended to be mind-affecting? Right now it isn't.
I think that was an omission. Playtest as though it has the mind-affecting descriptor.

I was assuming that it was deliberate, and that's why it actually calls out that mindless creatures are immune to it. If it's mind-affecting already, that line is utterly unnecessary.

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Shisumo wrote:
Logan Bonner wrote:
Psyren wrote:
- Is Mind Thrust intended to be mind-affecting? Right now it isn't.
I think that was an omission. Playtest as though it has the mind-affecting descriptor.
I was assuming that it was deliberate, and that's why it actually calls out that mindless creatures are immune to it. If it's mind-affecting already, that line is utterly unnecessary.

This was my understanding as well. In my playtest experience, my psychic DMPC encounted both mindless and mind-affecting immune enemies. The ability to use mind thrust on the non-mindless ones was a godsend.

Dark Archive

Thanks for the great answers Logan! A couple of follow-ups:

Logan Bonner wrote:


Psyren wrote:

Psychic Magic questions:

- How can Psychic Spells be identified by other casters while being cast if they have no verbal/somatic components and no Displays? Can an invisible Psychic be noticed at all?
There's always something you can see or otherwise notice. Spell-like abilities have a similar issue, but they too can be noticed.

Does noticing this require line of sight to the target? If I cast a psychic spell around a corner, in shadow or behind a door, will enemies who can't see me know what happened?

Also, regardless of the answer to the above question - is there a way to cast my psychic spells secretly while being observed? Regular casters can do this with still and silent spell.

Logan Bonner wrote:


Psyren wrote:
- How do touch spells like Bull's Strength work without somatic components? If a Psychic casts such a spell while paralyzed, what happens?
Take my answer with a grain of salt, because this is something I'll need to discuss with other team members for the final version. You still have to be able to touch the target. So if you were paralyzed and cast it, you can cast it on yourself or an ally who was deliberately grabbing onto your hand or something. If the spell requires you to hit with a melee touch attack, that's just not going to work when you're paralyzed. (Unless maaaaybe if you were being swallowed by a purple worm and casting it on the worm, but even then I think you'd be out of luck.)

Something else to bring up with them - will psychics need a free hand to deliver a touch spell this way? It usually doesn't come up with regular casters since they typically need a free hand just to cast it anyway, but for Psychic gishes who are dual-wielding or using a shield it could matter.

Dark Archive

Also, if you're taking suggestions for PrCs to let Psychics into, I would love a Psychic Knight and Psychic Trickster!


Logan Bonner wrote:
If the spell requires you to hit with a melee touch attack, that's just not going to work when you're paralyzed. (Unless maaaaybe if you were being swallowed by a purple worm and casting it on the worm, but even then I think you'd be out of luck.)

Nah, as currently worded, I think it would work without any special rules. You obviously don't get to make the free-action touch attack you get for casting a touch spell, but touch spells are automatically discharged on the first thing you touch after you cast them (except for a Magus, who is special). If your hand (or whatever) is touching the worm's innards, that touch spell would discharge.


Logan Bonner wrote:
Robert Carter 58 wrote:
My first thought is that hopefully there will be more unique spells when the book comes out. I'd like the ability to do a psychic link (rather than cast message) to communicate with allies out of the box. Message feels like a mage trick, but mind to mind contact- even if its limited (one ally/limited range for example) feels psychic.

Yes, putting mental communication early will definitely be a priority. Whether that comes as a 0-level spell or a class feature is yet to be determined.

You're right about the spell list, and we've got a lot of spells planned.

Okay, sounds good to me.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I've got a rules question. in the back the psychic spells, the components say T and E. What do these mean?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Robert Carter 58 wrote:


Going back to ye old D&D Clerics and Wizards are/were differentiated by their spells. You can do the same here with the Psychic. But you have to create the spells for it, not having the psychic summon Black Tentacles? That's a wizard thing.

That's totally a psychic thing.

AAAAKIIIIIRAAAA!!!!!!!

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I'd like the Phrenic Pool to act even more like a grit pool and perhaps have additional ways to refresh.

Perhaps the Phrenic pool is based only on the ability score and can be regained by:

Discipline Power

Foe rolls a 1 on a save.

Foe is rendered helpless or helpful via psychic spells.

Dark Archive

Kaedric wrote:
I've got a rules question. in the back the psychic spells, the components say T and E. What do these mean?

T = Thought (imposes a massive concentration DC increase on the "spell" - if one is required - unless you spend a move action focusing yourself.) These replace verbal components.

E = Emotion (spell will fail if you're suffering from any non-harmless fear or emotion effect.) These replace somatic components.

Read page 59 for more detail.


I sort of find this class a little boring, but maybe that will be less true when we see all the psychic spells.

Returning to an earlier point: I would really like to see some spells that evoke a sense of cosmic horror. Perhaps there could be a class of powerful spells that have a risk of self-inflicting confusion ("madness") for a number of rounds. Or maybe you could summon powerful monsters that you can only partially control (like 75% of the time, they will follow orders and 75% of the time they will attack the nearest creature).

On another note: doesn't pain disciple seem like it is clearly the best? There are a lot of ways to gain healing so painful resurgence seems pretty game-able. People have already mentioned a wand of cure light wounds (which puts the value of one recovered point of phrenic pool at about 35 GP), but I think there is a lot of value just in making your allies' healing resources more fungible (in that their healing spells and abilities can be counted on to recharge your pool when you expect that your party won't need them that day). Then all the other powers seem uniquely awesome as well.

By the same token, tranquility seems comparably situational and forgettable and is only useful based on what kind of attacks your enemies bring to the table. Meanwhile, the other three disciplines always seem useful given that you are taking some level of responsibility in making them work (even if Abomination is only useful for about half a minute in any given day).

Lantern Lodge

RJGrady wrote:
Robert Carter 58 wrote:


Going back to ye old D&D Clerics and Wizards are/were differentiated by their spells. You can do the same here with the Psychic. But you have to create the spells for it, not having the psychic summon Black Tentacles? That's a wizard thing.

That's totally a psychic thing.

AAAAKIIIIIRAAAA!!!!!!!

Don't forget Elfen Leid. Definitely some psychic hudoo goin on there.

Lantern Lodge

Logan Bonner wrote:
xevious573 wrote:
Spell-Like Abilities can't be counterspelled as far I know. What about Psychic spells?
Psychic spells are spells.

I always compared counter spelling to equivalent transfer of kinetic energy. If two forces of the same power collide, their output is 0. (that's an over simplification, but my Bachelor of Science is in Cartooning, not physics.)

Psychic magic seems more like a power transformer. The key spell for the psychic, "detect thoughts" has the built in description of causing damage if the target's intelligence is 10 points higher. So it's like plugging your scanner into the wrong AC adapter. Electrical blowout= psychic feedback.

Something else I'm curious about is how incorporeal undead affect psychics. I understand that is more in the spiritualist and medium's ally, but there are so many stories of psychics who are sensitive to EMP emissions and other ghostly presence indicators.


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I am confused as to why the discipline powers use charisma sometimes and intelligence other times.

I have a player play testing a pain psychic and am specifically worried about the free dazing spell. I had assumed that it used charisma as the other powers from the discipline key off charisma. I thought that the balance of getting the free dazing spell that scales with level was that it uses your secondary stat score.

I feel that if his DC had used intelligence (he was level 13), it would have caused the pain psychic dazing spell ability to be too strong because it would allow for free dazing with a DC equal to your highest level spell, and I would consider dazing spell already incredibly strong as a metamagic feat by itself.

In essence, I feel that using intelligence for discipline abilities breaks pain discipline (probably even with cha DC, it is a little too strong as is) but also feels weird from a design perspective with the inconsistent ability score usage.


Friendlyfish wrote:

My general comment:

The psychic doesn't have many options for, well, actually hurting things in combat. Inconveniencing them mightily? Yes. Controlling them? Yes. Confusing them? Of course.

But beyond magic missile and a few save-or-die spells scattered throughout, you've got the mind-affecting only mind thrust and psychic crush lines of spells with which to actually put hurt on an opponent, and these are limited to single target and look a bit weaksauce to boot.

This is probably intended as part of the class design (otherwise why not just play a sorcerer). However, my opinion is that it'd be good to have some sort of general self-defense setup for this class.

Put this guy and a skeleton in a room by themselves together, and the psychic is going to have to bust out his belt knife and go chipping away to survive.

Another point of opinion:

This guy looks way too much like the sorcerer to be a distinct base class. Make a "psychic" bloodline, slap int-attribute casting on it, and what's really so very different here?

Basically this.

I haven't read the whole thread so excuse me if I've missed something.

What the Psychic looks and feels like to me is an overly complicated rehash of a Sorcerer. Maybe instead of just tacking on a bunch of things arcane classes can already do, give them some new, scalable spells. I'd rather see a bunch of lower level spells that can be "Overcast" at a higher spell slot so they retain playability at higher levels. The higher level spells shouldn't need to scale, you should get an effect that is appropriate for a spell of that level.

For example: Ego whip I is not a 3rd level spell by any means. Especially when compared to what an arcane caster can do with a 3rd level spell slot normally. In addition the whole Undercast mechanic just seems confusing and unnecessary, not to mention most of the spells that do it are lackluster at best.

tldr; I would rather see a completely new spell list with scalable spells. Psychically themed of course.


Was the intent for Dark Half to be 1/2 level + modifier or 3+modifier or Modifier +2/level or some such? As it is, it's almost non-existant. A level 20 Psychic would probably have 3 or 4 rounds in a day, which seems a bit sparse. A level 1 has 2, maybe three if they're lucky.

Dark Archive

I for one don't want a new list, I love the idea of them putting a new spin on the existing spells, and it means a lot less design work for Paizo. They can have "New Spell: Sor/Wiz 3, Bard 3, Psychic 3" instead of every book going forward having a "New Spells" and "New Powers" section as happened in the latter half of 3.5.

As for Ego Whip, 3rd-level is a good place for it. It was 2nd-level in 3.5 and it ended up being one of the most potent psionic powers in the game, capable of ending encounters against pretty much anything sentient with low will saves (dire animals, giants, monstrous humanoids etc.) Bumping it up a notch leaves it good but makes it take longer to get and be more costly.


IICorinthianII wrote:
Friendlyfish wrote:

My general comment:

The psychic doesn't have many options for, well, actually hurting things in combat. Inconveniencing them mightily? Yes. Controlling them? Yes. Confusing them? Of course.

But beyond magic missile and a few save-or-die spells scattered throughout, you've got the mind-affecting only mind thrust and psychic crush lines of spells with which to actually put hurt on an opponent, and these are limited to single target and look a bit weaksauce to boot.

This is probably intended as part of the class design (otherwise why not just play a sorcerer). However, my opinion is that it'd be good to have some sort of general self-defense setup for this class.

Put this guy and a skeleton in a room by themselves together, and the psychic is going to have to bust out his belt knife and go chipping away to survive.

Another point of opinion:

This guy looks way too much like the sorcerer to be a distinct base class. Make a "psychic" bloodline, slap int-attribute casting on it, and what's really so very different here?

Basically this.

I haven't read the whole thread so excuse me if I've missed something.

What the Psychic looks and feels like to me is an overly complicated rehash of a Sorcerer. Maybe instead of just tacking on a bunch of things arcane classes can already do, give them some new, scalable spells. I'd rather see a bunch of lower level spells that can be "Overcast" at a higher spell slot so they retain playability at higher levels. The higher level spells shouldn't need to scale, you should get an effect that is appropriate for a spell of that level.

For example: Ego whip I is not a 3rd level spell by any means. Especially when compared to what an arcane caster can do with a 3rd level spell slot normally. In addition the whole Undercast mechanic just seems confusing and unnecessary, not to mention most of the spells that do it are lackluster at best.

tldr; I would rather see a completely new spell list with scalable spells....

I would also like to see more distinction between Psychic magic and divine/arcane, apart from "wear whatever armor you want". Which is shares with divine magic anyway.

As the spells have no verbal or somatic components, it seems like there ought to be something special involved to

a) know that a Psychic is casting a spell
b) therefore identify said spell using Spellcraft.

This isn't a tough fix, and it doesn't have to change the game very much. Number one, a fellow Psychic caster should be able to do both a and b without extra effort. Call it passive psi detection or something. A fellow psychic is able to sense a disturbance in the force, as it were.

For non-psychics, I can think of a few options. Make a new stat called "passive psychic perception" or something, and base it on Will. Say, Wisdom modifier (since this is the perception mod stat) plus HD. DM can roll for you and tell you "that guy's casting a spell. A psychic spell. Roll spellcraft." This psychic score could be boosted by feats, traits, items, alternate racial traits, or favored class bonus.

I also notice that Psychic spells and abilities have yet to be assigned to a particular knowledge skill. We already have Knowledge: Arcana for arcane casters and Knowledge: Religion for divine. May I suggest Knowledge: Occult? Goes without saying that all the classes in this book would have this as a class skill, as well as the "Knowledge: All" classes. It should also be added to occult/spooky classes like Witch, Oracle, Inquisitor, and Shaman.


I think it is assumed there is some kind of noticeable effect associated with spell casting...something that makes it so that even a Still Silent spell with no material components can still be sensed and identified with a Spellcraft roll. The same with Psychic Magic...we assume that everyone in the Pathfinder universe has some sensitivity to magical forces, and can sense when a spell is being cast and by whom by feeling the energy gathering around the caster waiting to be released.

Kind of like being able to tell who is glowing in a dark room.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Would it be reasonable to add a selection of healing and remedial spells to the list? Psychic healing / life force sharing / psychic surgery are all strong elements of most New Age practices. As is there is no real class that can serve as a groups healer without recourse to outside spiritual powers - allowing the Psychic to fill that role with inner powers drawn from their mind and life essence would be really helpful in campaigns where either the players or GM is uncomfortable dealing with spiritual issues or divine powers aren't in keeping with the theme.


I note that Occultists have several healing spells on their Conjuration spell list. Kineticists of Aether and Water can have Kinetic Healing. While I would have no objections to a Psychic being able to heal.

Spiritualists and Mediums, presumably, do not count because they are using outside forces.

101 to 150 of 211 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Archive / Pathfinder / Playtests & Prerelease Discussions / Occult Adventures Playtest / Rules Discussion / General Discussion: Psychic All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.