I'm actually hoping that with the class building advice, I'll be able to use that to design the classes I wish. So that will be cool :)
Ditto!
(And the semi-hybridization of classes in the ACG thus far has also been a very good illustrative tool.)
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What would be really nice would be a full Class Builder like the Race Builder in ARG.
Honestly, having played point buy systems, I can tell you that would really be easy to abuse and game. It's better to have advice that can help guide a GM make good judgement calls about class design.
Point buy systems can never beat experienced advice.
Personally I miss Warlocks...
Although I Do have to say the new Arcanist looks good enough I guess (the elemental blasts are the closests equivalents to Eldritch Blast)
Three things, for me.
1. A martial leader-type that can buff the group, somewhere between a cavalier and a bard (or a fighter and a bard). Something like the warlord from 4e and the marshal from the 3.0 Miniatures Handbook. I realize that cavaliers have a decent amount of this, but I'd rather see a more teamwork and buff focused character than the mechanics for orders, challenges, and the mount. I've got a homebrew version I'd like, but it's something I'd enjoy playing in PFS. I personally would have dropped the hunter from the ACG for this, as I think the hunter could have simply been a druid archetype that dropped the wild shape stuff for a focus on its animal companion.
2. Yeah, an artificer. Like the previous, I have a homebrew version I like, but it's too close to the Eberron closed-source material to be usable.
3. A martial shapeshifter would be interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if this shows up as a brawler archetype soon, considering the revelation of the Bane-inspired archetype for that class. It could be done fairly easily as a ranger archetype too, I think, if you dropped a lot of the nature skill boost stuff.
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HERO! The system you should only play if everyone knows what their doing, and everyone is on the same page.
HERO! The system you should only play if everyone knows what their doing, and everyone is on the same page.
I love HERO, but man, it is a big book of stuff to remember. And even with the rules abuses they fixed, it's still not terribly hard to game the system.
Shame too. HERO is great for tinkerers like me. I'm a sucker for that.
Actually, I remember there was a martial shapeshifter. It was a wildshaping ranger variant.
He is more like a terrain type druod more than a full shapeshifter though...
I'd probably make a Medium class that revolves around the spirits of the dead. Always wanted to play a class like that.
I'd probably make a Medium class that revolves around the spirits of the dead. Always wanted to play a class like that.
or there is
I'd probably make a Medium class that revolves around the spirits of the dead. Always wanted to play a class like that.or there is
And here I was just going to make a shaman archetype :) Thanks
I'm actually interested in a class smiler to 3.5's Warlock class from Complete Arcana. a caster with an ability to use energy blasts as their own form of weapon usable at will that grows more powerful as you level up and can be changed with innovations (like Arcainist's Exploits) which can alter the affects and powers of the blasts. however many of the innovations would cost energy points from a pool smiler to the Arcainist or Magus.
they would be proficient with only simple weapons but with light armor, casts spells 0-6, and whose powers can be customized like a sorcerer(in the form of archetypes) to different backgrounds.
the class that would become the ultimate blaster. :)
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Three things, for me.
1. A martial leader-type that can buff the group, somewhere between a cavalier and a bard (or a fighter and a bard). Something like the warlord from 4e and the marshal from the 3.0 Miniatures Handbook. I realize that cavaliers have a decent amount of this, but I'd rather see a more teamwork and buff focused character than the mechanics for orders, challenges, and the mount. I've got a homebrew version I'd like, but it's something I'd enjoy playing in PFS. I personally would have dropped the hunter from the ACG for this, as I think the hunter could have simply been a druid archetype that dropped the wild shape stuff for a focus on its animal companion.
Sounds like the Sensei Monk to me. You get Inspire Courage, all diplo and knowledge skills as class skills, and the ability to pass out your ki powers to teammates. Makes a great team leader.
Sounds like the Sensei Monk to me. You get Inspire Courage, all diplo and knowledge skills as class skills, and the ability to pass out your ki powers to teammates. Makes a great team leader.
I'm currently scratching the itch to play such a character with a dwarven fighter/evangelist cleric with the War (Tactics) domain. He does what I like, but I'd rather have the option to do so with less magical character. I've played a similar character as a fighter/bard before as well.
I do like the sensei, but monks have a very specific flavor to them, and the sensei even more so.
- A Warlock-type class, with unlimited evocations and eldritch blasting.
- A divine-arcane hybrid caster.
- A rogue-arcane hybrid. 6 level arcane casting, some sneak, some acrobatics, talents and 3/4 BAB.
- Similarly a rogue-divine hybrid.
- A non spell casting shapeshifter class.
- A martial buff/teamwork class.
To be honest, many of the ACG classes just seem redundant to me.
- The Warpriest, given the possibility of martial Clerics and Inquisitors.
- The Arcanist. No one needs another, yet more powerful arcane caster.
- The Brawler. Monks and the brawler Fighter archetype make this redundant concept wise. The fact that it was included seems to hint at the Monk and Fighter classes having been badly designed to begin with.
- The Swashbuckler. Similarly, that the Fighter chasis was not able to accomodate this kind of fighter is telling. Not redundant, but should have been.
- Hunter. Oh Joy, it's a druid by another name...
- Skald. From the playtest document, this just seems horribly thrown together. It's just a bard with a variant performance and the utlimate "I solve this problem with the perfect spell" ability. Both of which seems to speak against it.
I really do like the Investigator, it does fill a niche. The Bloodrager seems a bit overpowered by the playtest document, but a nice idea. The Slayer is a long awaited full BAB - sneak attack class. The Shaman is cool, but I don't see what the hexes add to it. But then again, I really find the great power disparity between hexes (smell children vs. slumber e.g.) kind of annoying anyway.
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At the very least, it's a strong disincentive.While I doubt we will see it, I do not agree that "undoable in PFS play" is a benchmark for auto-exclusion from publishing by Paizo.Magic item crafter: An alchemist is not an artificer. I still miss it.The one class you'll never see from Paizo.... because it'd be totally undoable in PFS play.
I can agree with that.
I still miss a class that gets cool supernatural abilities but no actual spells. Like a bard that exchanges his spells for a sorcerer bloodline.
We have enough examples of abilities such a class could get but they are exclusive to casting classes.
Bard, Sorcerer, Oracle, druid
So while the rules don't say you can't have a Cleric who worships an ideal, in Golarion which is setting by James Jacobs, there are no clerics who worship an ideal.
No offense to JJ, but unless it's actually printed in a Golarion-specific book, it's in no way a "rule" and what is in the Pathfinder line would supersede what is not published anywhere. Although it could be published somewhere. I have no idea.
Regardless, there is the Enlightened Philosopher Oracle archetype and Oracles certainly don't have to worship a deity.
I'm actually interested in a class smiler to 3.5's Warlock class from Complete Arcana. a caster with an ability to use energy blasts as their own form of weapon usable at will
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/soulknife/archetypes/dre amscarred-press/soulbolt
This is basically an archer, but you are still shooting energy bolts instead of using a ranged weapon. It stacks with the Gifted Blade archetype which grants Manifesting up to 4th level (similar to a Paladin or Ranger). You could also forgo Gifted Blade, level dip into a manifesting class and then take the Dark Tempest PrC (not on d20pfsrd for some reason) that advances both Manifesting, Mind Blade enhancement, Psychic Strike, and Blade Skill.So, via 3pp there is already a pretty functional supernatural at-will blaster that can be built with 'spellcasting' or not. It lacks the 90s goth poseur aesthetic of the Warlock. If that is a demerit it is at least a very subjective one.
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I want something Tome of Battle-ish.
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- A Mage/Rogue.
Archetypes cover the subsets of this.
Arcane Trickster
Beguiler
Spellthief
Illusionist/Shadow Rogue.
-SteelDraco and KutuluKultist want a martial Bard/Cavalier leader type, but there already is one. It's the Battle Herald and it is very good. It's a bit complicated though and only uses one weapon (Longspear). I'm not sure about this, I think between Cavalier, Bard, and a Paladin with good Diplomacy, this concept can already be done.
- A non-caster shapeshifter.
Archetypes include the big bruiser Bear/Barbarian, the sneaky Assassin/Snake, the scouty Ranger/Eagle etc. can be flavoured as Manimal, Lycanthropes, fey mysteries, Native American spirit animals, plenty of possibilities.
- I absolutely never want to see a class builder in Pathfinder. It would kill the game stone flat. People would never ever pick crap class abilities like Slow Fall or Bravery (as it is, people swap them out with archetypes ASAP) and instead it'd be about getting 9th level Arcane/9th level Divine spells at the expense of everything else. You'd get entire parties of Mystic Theurge variants. A class builder would also not work because either things like Druid would be shown to spend way more points than lesser classes, double or triple the Rogue, or his class abilities would have to be super cheap to compensate. Which suggests that wild shape would cost as much as sneak attack. 9th level Druid spells cost as much as Rogue Talents. Full animal companion costs as much as... erm... Trap finding.
Basically, it couldn't work, because the current classes can't be made in a point-buy class builder.
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I feel like a lot of these concepts can be produced with the classes we have currently. A few posts back I saw someone call for a 6 level arcane casting, 3/4 BAB, kinda sneaky guy, and his divine counterpart; you're asking for the Bard & Inquisitor.
I never played an artificer, so I'm not sure what they do, could someone educate me?
Just for the sake of class completion a 4 level arcane caster could be interesting. It could take form as a beefier hexblade, throwing around debuffs like a witch with magus style.
A 1/2 BAB divine dedicated caster.
I had hopes for the Arcanist White Mage archetype, but it looks like it's just an arcanist with Cure spells.
Cure Spells don't make a caster 'divine'. They don't even really make you a healer (you need things like condition removal and Restoration for that imo).
It misses the mark by so far it hurts. Maybe it's got more than just spontaneous healing though...
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- A Mage/Rogue.
Archetypes cover the subsets of this.
Arcane Trickster
Beguiler
Spellthief
Illusionist/Shadow Rogue.
All of these options (as well as the bard) come with a particular specialisation and their own problems.
The Arcane Trickster is basically a touch spell sniper, which suffers from it's low BAB. I don't know what a Beguiler or a Spellthief is (if not the 3.5 classes) and an Illusionist is just a wizard. Yes, I can force a mage/rogue hybrid using traits to accquire class skills, trap finding, focussing on INT and so on, but having a class that focusses on that, with options to specialise on manipulation, traps, sneak combat would enrich the game.-SteelDraco and KutuluKultist want a martial Bard/Cavalier leader type, but there already is one. It's the Battle Herald and it is very good. It's a bit complicated though and only uses one weapon (Longspear). I'm not sure about this, I think between Cavalier, Bard, and a Paladin with good Diplomacy, this concept can already be done.
Not strictly. You certainly lose BAB and gain spell casting one way or another. You will also have to deal with the dead weight of the original classes, such as the animal companion. It would be better to have an option that does not come with all that baggage.
- A non-caster shapeshifter.
Archetypes include the big bruiser Bear/Barbarian, the sneaky Assassin/Snake, the scouty Ranger/Eagle etc. can be flavoured as Manimal, Lycanthropes, fey mysteries, Native American spirit animals, plenty of possibilities.
Is that an endorsement? ;)
- I absolutely never want to see a class builder in Pathfinder.
Total agreement.
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Hey everyone - hopefully you'll indulge me, but I wanted to mention that a number of the class concepts that have come up in this thread are already available in the New Paths Compendium from Kobold Press!. If you use non-Paizo material in your game, please give the book a look!
A number of folks have said they want a martial, non-caster shapeshifter. Take a look at the skin-changer, a variant of the spell-less ranger class that trades out things like hunter's bond and combat styles for a druid-like animal shape ability right from 1st level and a specialized animal combat style
For those looking for a full 20 level Mystic Theurge style arcane/divine base class, the New Path Compendium presents the theurge!
Looking for a spontaneous casting version of the druid, with abilities and flavor like the sorcerer or oracle - the NPC has the shaman, complete with totem secrets and an animal spirit guide.
Looking for a class a bit like the warlock, a martial caster with energy blasts which can be modified as he increases in level? Check out the battle scion - the ultimate martial blaster. :)
The NPC has received 11 5-star reviews, including one from Endzeitgeist himself and there's a lot of other good stuff including a number of other new classes (including the spell-less ranger, white necromancer, elven archer, and savant) so please check it out. Those of you looking for unrealized Pathfinder RPG classes might find that the New Paths Compendium from Kobold Press! is just what the doctor ordered! :)
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I'm still hoping for a steampunkish engineer, with an eidolon-like robot, spell-like inventions/gadgets, bombs and exosuits (maybe not all in one class, they could be divided over archetypes). No really, we have too little engineer/steampunk like classes. Closest is the experimental gunslinger.
Numerian technomancers are the obvious path for introducing an artificer-like class into Pathfinder.
I keep hoping for this, but Paizo would have to be very careful with the implementation. A lot of people are opposed to mixing technology in with their swords & sorcery.
A spontaneous magus and witch, as well ... that still function off Intelligence, dammit.I've made both of these for my home games (because I prefer spontaneous casting to prepared). You just swap out their spell progression for sorcerer/oracle (for witch), and bard (for magus). Honestly the magus barely changes. If you want to still base them off Int, do so. The Inquisitor isn't Cha based, and there are Sorc bloodlines that use Wis or Int, so it's got precedent.
I love that idea, I may have to run it by my GM. I am terrible with prepared casters.
Honestly, a lot of these options people are looking for, I am thinking of archetypes that cover them. I understand the desire for fluff around the class, but I had a few concepts I wanted to cover and people identified options for me.
I think a good amount of problem is when a class has heavy flavor tacked on. If you strip away a Druid's nature trappings and the witch's occult trappings, you get Divine/Arcane hybrids. If you strip away the bard's performer identity, you can create spellthief/arcane tricksters/beguilers. It just creates a little bit of... "This might work, but it's just too much of stretch."
A proper archivist. Meaning a divine spellcaster that casts off of intellect and uses a spellbook. If there were absolutely zero class features beyond that, I would still play it.
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There is a magus archetype, the Greensting Slayer I believe, that gives up a lot of fighter abilities and gains some rogue like abilities, like evasion and sneak attack giving you the mage/thief style character that you want.
Spontaneous Druid is a niche that is not filled.
With the addition of the Bloodrager we could still see a prepared 4/9 arcane caster with full BAB and now the door is open for a spontaneous 4/9 full BAB casters of both the nature and divine lists.
Could go for a 4/9 full BAB caster version of the witch, I imagine it would end up much like the 3.5 hexblade.
I am fine with psionics in the hands of DSP, and I really couldn't care less about an artificer class.
There is a magus archetype, the Greensting Slayer I believe, that gives up a lot of fighter abilities and gains some rogue like abilities, like evasion and sneak attack giving you the mage/thief style character that you want.
Spontaneous Druid is a niche that is not filled.
With the addition of the Bloodrager we could still see a prepared 4/9 arcane caster with full BAB and now the door is open for a spontaneous 4/9 full BAB casters of both the nature and divine lists.
Could go for a 4/9 full BAB caster version of the witch, I imagine it would end up much like the 3.5 hexblade.
I am fine with psionics in the hands of DSP, and I really couldn't care less about an artificer class.
While not TECHNICALLY fully spontanious, the ACG Shaman is like... partially spontanious AND they can be very druid-esque (one of the spoiled hexes is pretty much wildshape)
There is a magus archetype, the Greensting Slayer I believe, that gives up a lot of fighter abilities and gains some rogue like abilities, like evasion and sneak attack giving you the mage/thief style character that you want.
Where is this from?
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You guys make me laugh when you request a Mystic Theurge and an Arcane Trickster... when they're ALREADY Prestige Classes. Look, they cannot convert PrCs into actual classes, ok? So let them be...
Honestly, for missing classes? Hmmm...
- Artificer/Tinkerer: someone who can fabricate gadgets that duplicate spells. If that's problematic to you, pretty sure Numeria would have such a class amongst their ranks.
- Swordsage/Warblade/Crusader: Yes, I'm asking this, because I really liked how Tome of Battle was written and ruled. Look, the fighter is literally paling in comparison when it comes to "having something unique". These 3 classes made an awesome alternate fighter option. Tian Xia could be loaded with these right now. Basically, give the fighter spell-like abilities in the forms of unique attacks.
Priest Class by Flaming Crab Games. Full divine caster, 1/2 BAB, non-armored. I think it is actually really well made.
As for me:
Spontaneous druid.
Artificer type class.
Half-caster Full BAB spontaneous Divine caster (both godly [cleric] and nature [druid] based spells).
Half-caster Full BAB prepared Arcane caster.
Spontaneous 6/9 druidy caster.
Martially based buff class, that gives aura buffs (preferrably wider area than 30 ft), and can give out teamwork feats to his allies.
Archivist from Heroes of Horror. A divine class that has a spellbook and can buff as well.
Classes based on the Arcane schools, like the Summoner (though not as abusable as the Summoner).