|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Hi all!!
I ever admire dwarves, but in Pathfinder and PFS i don't know how to create a powerful dwarven warrior. I need your advice for this.
I want a typical dwarf with axe (double dwarven waraxe, longaxe or great axe)or hammer (longhammer, etc).
If he has to have levels in other classes (barbarian, cleric, warpriest, bloodrager, etc) there is not a problem for me.
But i want a powerful dwarf!!!
Thanks for all!!
Okay, optimizing a melee dwarf with an axe shouldn't be too hard.
A fighter dwarf with a weapon specialization in a double dwarven waraxe would do the trick.
I highly suggest trying a sword-and-board build since the double dwarven waraxe is a one-handed weapon.
So take Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Shield Bash, Power Attack and Cleave, and move on from there.
How about a slayer? You can get two weapon fighting via the slayer talents and go axe and board. With a dwarven waraxe in one hand and a shield in the other. You get full BAB, lots of skills, lots of feats (as you can turn some talents into feats).
Instead of axe and shield you could use the thunder and fang build. It fits Dwarves very good. And again, you can get TWF without dex requirement.
Maybe try:
Barbarian (Titan Mauler) 1.
Titan Mauler 2.
Fighter 3-12.
That let's you get a 2d6 longaxe/hammer and a shield.
Plus rage, a bonus against bigger enemies, and 12 hp at 1st level.
For dwarves fighter is not good. You don't get much from armor training. And armor training is about the only thing the fighter has going for him over a slayer.
I've been kicking this idea around for a while for a dwarf fighter.
Since dwarves don't benefit much from the armor training skills take the two-handed fighter archetype. You lose armor training and instead get big damage bonuses when using two-handed weapons. Now, when you get to weapon training, select the pole arms group. It's a very diverse group with really good two handers. The Dwarven long axe and long hammer aren't technically in any group, but your GM should let you put them into the pole arms class. The reason I like pole arms is you get b, p, and s damage types, extended critical range with the bardiche (a big axe), reach weapons, and the non-reach versatility of the nodachi (a sword, but a great option if reach is not great in your circumstances).
And don't go sword and board in my opinion. Power attack synergies so much better with a two handed build. If you want to go sword and board play a ranger to get shield master at level 6.
Alternatively, just play an invulnerable rager barbarian and go crazy. There's not really a wrong way to play with those guys.
I would advise Warpriest or Cleric. I am currently running a Dwarf Cleric (Glory, Travel domains) and I hit the hardest of my party with the best damage using my Dwarven Longaxe - though it does require knowing a fight is coming some rounds in advance to get buffs off. Warpriest has less spellcasting but other good abilities.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
You could always consider the Dwarf-only Paladin archetype Stonelord. This way you get a whole lot of pretty unique features that are thematically spot-on. They get plenty of damage resistance, bonuses against creatures with the earth subtype, all weapons count as Adamantium and a whole lot more.
For additional "Dwarveness" you could use the Dwarven Dorn-Dergar (Chain-flail) as a Reach & close-range weapon using the Darting Viper and Chain-Flail Master feats. This weapon actually works well with the movement restrictions on the Stonelord from Defensive Stance as well.
A Dwarf Barbarian going into Stalwart Defender also seems like a heap of fun to me. I admit I have no experience with such a character at all so I don't know if it would work. You'd need to find a way to avoid becoming fatigued after your rage and after your defensive stance though.
But alternately raging and defending seems like a dwarf thing to do. :P
Thx for all your help mates.
@Umbranus: Slayer is not a fighter... and doesn't have the fighter feats that is very important.
Well i looking the other options, titan mauler... or two handed fighter but this low mi CA...but is a good advice. Thx!!
He kinda does, actually. In addition to the Ranger Combat Styles, you can pick up Combat Trick, Weapon Focus, and a Bonus Feat. If you just pick up all of the bonus feat options you miss out on the level one feat but otherwise have as many feats as the Fighter until level 16.
Want a crazy idea -
Phalnax fighter 3, Swashbucker X. Lucerne hammer for a weapon.
|
Take a look at Foehammer.
I think it's pretty awesome. With an Earthbreaker or a Longhammer, you could dish out some serious damage.
|
|
@Arachnofiend but he is not proficient with heavy armors...the skin of a dwarf is a full plate, mithral or not!!
Is not bad Foehammer but don't gives you many bonuses, only for bull rush and a bit more...
@Hawktitan Phalanx and rogue? no many dwarvish but thx for the crazy one!!
Thanks to all i learn a lot with your comments!!!
Foe hammer is cool, but hammers don't get the extended critical range which is the typical route to get maximum damage from a fighter. They're all 20 x3-4 and you usually want a 19-20 x2 or 18-20 x2. I will say though that the ground smash ability combined with the dwarf trait "rock stepper" is awesome. You can 5-foot step through your rubble and make full attacks.
Thx for all your help mates.
@Umbranus: Slayer is not a fighter... and doesn't have the fighter feats that is very important.
Well i looking the other options, titan mauler... or two handed fighter but this low mi CA...but is a good advice. Thx!!
If you want to go fighter, so be it. You should have stated that. In your opening post you only wrote that you wanted to be a warrior and I assumed that you did not mean the NPC class. And as you wanted something powerful fighter was not what came to mind.
Swashbuckler is from the ACG play test which focuses on one handed piercing weapons. The phalnax archetype let's you use a variety of weapons as one handed. You get to be a dwarf with a Lucerne Hammer but you do it with style :).
There is a trait that gives you spell resistance....that gets you back to an older type dwarf. Shield bash feats, death or glory, close quarters thrower with dealdy aim(throwing axes), stalwart feats?
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
You have reason @Umbranus but i want advice to make me a great and powerful dwarven warrior, and slayer is not a greater "dwarven" warrior, he makes sneak attacks and is a rogue...
@Hawktitan i know these archetypes, but swashbuckler is a rogue archetype...
Yhx Krevon but in Pathfinder no way to take TWF, for Shield Bash feats, without high dex (15.
Can you say me what score abilities, feats and so more to greate the powerful dwarf warrior or fighter (but he can be other classes like barbarian, warpriest, priest or something like fighter)
Thanks to all for your advices!!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Okay just... take power attack and go to town. You clearly have no intention of actually taking anyone's advice so feel free to derp around with a suboptimal Dwarven fighter. If you want to make "the most powerful Dwarven warrior", your options are Slayer, Ranger, and Barbarian. You will not be using heavy armor with any of these. You shouldn't care.
A friend is playing a dwarf fighter dual-wielding a dwarven waraxe and a light shield in my campaign (on hiatus while we play Carrion Crown). It's not a fancy build by any means but it is effective at what it does. Mind you, this is with a 25-point build and he has received a +1 inherent bonus to his Strength from a magical pool they immersed themselves in. He has the highest AC in the party, has more hit points than the barbarian when the barb is not raging, has decent saves overall, and hits almost as hard as the barbarian when the barbarian doesn't crit with his falchion.
P.S. The character was built before many of the additional books (UC, UM, etc.) were available. No fighter archetype was selected.
LG Medium dwarf fighter 9
STATISTICS
Str 20, Dex 16, Con 18, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 8
Base Attack +9/+4; CMB +14; CMD 28
Feats: Blind-Fight, Cleave, Greater Weapon Focus (dwarven waraxe), Improved Shield Bash, Power Attack, Shield Slam, Sliding Axe Throw, Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (dwarven waraxe), Weapon Specialization (dwarven waraxe)
Traits: Courageous, Glory of Old
Special Abilities armor training 2, bravery +2, weapon training: axes +2, weapon training: close +1
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Okay just... take power attack and go to town. You clearly have no intention of actually taking anyone's advice so feel free to derp around with a suboptimal Dwarven fighter. If you want to make "the most powerful Dwarven warrior", your options are Slayer, Ranger, and Barbarian. You will not be using heavy armor with any of these. You shouldn't care.
Some people can't overcome what they see as a class's fluff. If for him the slayer is the sneaky backstabber, the barbarian the raging madman and the ranger the robin hood/strider guy, let him be.
But there is one point in which I disagree with you, Arachnofiend: I would be using heavy armor as a dwarven slayer. It's just a feat and I'm slow and steady.
|
|
@Arachnofiend sorry if you have been bothered by my words, maybe the slayer will be the most powerful warrior but i read the class and i don't see what is great than a fighter, can you post me an example of a dwarven slayer please?
@Umbranus you have reason, but i need see an examples of your character ideas to me, please.
@Dosgamer ok but is a 25 points build as you say with gift and i want to PFS 20 point build, but thx for the post!!
Thanks to all people!! Don't be bothered by my words!!!
As a Dwarf fighter, you don't get the +2 str, and armor mastery is almost worthless to you. So the most str you are likely to start with is str 16 and two handing your weapon is only going to get you a +1 early on.
So...
Dwarven Weapon master (Dwarven Waraxe specialist)
Str 16 Dex 12 Con 16 Int 12 Wis 16 Cha 5
Feats: Weapon Focus (Dwarven Waraxe), Steel Soul
Traits: Glory of Old, Eyes and ears of the city
Skills: Survival, Perception, Intimidate
Favored class bonus HP
With a heavy shield and the best armor you can afford (probably scale), at 1st level You have AC 18, 14 hp, +5 to all saves vs magic, doing +5 to hit, 1d10+3 damage.
later feats:
2nd: Power Attack
3rd: Iron Will
4th: Weapon Specialization (dwarven waraxe).
There. Your stereotypical dwarf fighter.
|
Hi all!!
I ever admire dwarves, but in Pathfinder and PFS i don't know how to create a powerful dwarven warrior. I need your advice for this.
I want a typical dwarf with axe (double dwarven waraxe, longaxe or great axe)or hammer (longhammer, etc).
If he has to have levels in other classes (barbarian, cleric, warpriest, bloodrager, etc) there is not a problem for me.
But i want a powerful dwarf!!!
Thanks for all!!
Define how you want to be powerful.
Do you want massive damage?
Do you want battlefield control?
Do you want an unhittable AC and rock solid saves?
Do you want enough skills to make the rogue weep?
But there is one point in which I disagree with you, Arachnofiend: I would be using heavy armor as a dwarven slayer. It's just a feat and I'm slow and steady.Don't Slayers & Rangers loose the benefit of their combat style in heavy armor?
Right, that is possible.
What's your DM like?
I run low level games, and therefore a Core Dwarf fighter is going to be quite good, cause there is nothing to compare him to. If you play with a high level crowd, or a 3PP crowd, or even a PFS crowd things change...
I don't have my playtest document with me so I'm doing this from memory.
I think PFS uses 20 point buy, right?
1st level Dwarf slayer
STR: 16 DEX: 13 CON: 16 INT: 12 WIS: 12 CHA: 8
Alternate racial trait:
Rock stepper (5ft step in some difficult terrain)
Weapons of choice:
Dwarven waraxe, light spiked shield
Traits:
Defensive strategist
Glory of old
Feats:
Power attack
Class abilities:
Favored target (choose a target hit better, deal more damage no daily limit)
Track
Skills:
8 Skill points
So right now the differences between fighter and slayer are: One less feat, one more good save, two more special abilities, four more skill points, no heavy armor.
At second level we choose ranger combat style weapon and shield to get TWF.
The differences remain the same except that we could ignore the prerequisites for our 2nd level bonus feat and we missed out on bravery. Let's say that evens out track, which most dwarves will rarely use.
At third level we get sneak attack instead of armor training. While sneak attack is not what we are looking for it sometimes helps deal damage and as a dwarf we get little from armor training because we are slow and steady.
At fourth level we get our next slayer talent. Up until now the best fitting might be combat trick to get a bonus combat feat, same as the fighter. We can't choose weapon spec, but instead of getting +2 damage with one weapon we get +1 hit and +1 damage with all weapons just by using favoured target.
At fifth level your favoured target increases to +2 and you can have it active on two targets. We miss out on weapon training.
I left out the standard feats, because every char gets those.
All in all the slayer can be played and fluffed just as a fighter. He can't use heavy armor if he wants to use a ranger combat style (thanks to Imbicatus for pointing out) and you don't get armor training, weapon spec and weapon training. But you (in my opinion) more than make up for the loss through what you get instead.
You can ignore prerequisites for some feats, you get two good saves, a lot more skills, a strong ability to increase hit and damage with favoured target
With the ACG we will see some archetypes so we might even get something that's even better at being a dwarf man at arms.
Edit: Just to note it, until at level 5 he gets his earth elemental, the stone lord paladin can be seen as a rather stereotypical dwarf warrior, too.
|
|
Running a Dwarven Fighter in PFS right now. He's using the two-handed archetype and wielding a Dwarven longhammer as primary weapon, with Dwarven boulder helmet for close combat. Went the power attack - furious focus - vital strike route to maximize mobile damage. Picked up Steel Soul for improved mystic defense. Also following the Dwarven helmet feat chain for fun. It just screams iconic dwarf fighter. :-)
@Hawktitan i know these archetypes, but swashbuckler is a rogue archetype...
It's not an archetype, or rather it is, but that's not what I am refering to. In this case it's an alternate class
Why only use the dwarven waraxe? Why not the dwarven DOUBLE waraxe. It's the exact same as a dwarven waraxe with an additional benefit if you pick up cleave. Oh and maybe a dwarven boulder helm so you can headbutt people when you don't have the axe. Oddly enough a corsair fighter would work really really well with the dwarven double waraxe.
My next Dwarven warrior is going to be a barbarian. Axe and board.
+1 for the double waraxe.
I am looking advice for a great dwarf warrior!!
If you assume max numbers on the weight modifier dice (an 8 from 2d4) that would be a total of 206 lbs in skin. Stack on a maul, warhammer, tower shield, stone plate, and enlarge person and you got to be well over a ton. That's about as great as you can get with a dwarf.
Half-orc would net you nearly a half ton more.
...
Also, you could use a sickle in 1 hand and a warhammer in the other: you'll be the Soviet Union!
Then you need Aspect of the Bear!
Also, you could use a sickle in 1 hand and a warhammer in the other: you'll be the Soviet Union!
I actually loosely started planning and hammer/sickle dwarf. hehehe
For a Soviet Union.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Now that Dwarf Cavliers have been mentioned, I finally have an excuse to link this:
Alchemist can be a good choice too, you get a mutagen to make you better at melee, you can use a heavy crossbow with Explosive Missile to wreak some havoc from level 4 onward, and extracts are easily described as alcohol. Good for flavor, good for combat, good for utility.
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'm currently planning a dwarf fighter based on all the cool toys in the Advanced Race Guide (and not much else):
1. Foehammer archetype - gives up the fighter Armor Training that doesn't help dwarves as much as other races in favor of more hammer-focused stuff, including bonuses to bull rush and trip.
2. Dwarven Longhammer - 2d6 damage with reach, so you don't have to worry about provoking when you trip without Improved Trip
3. Dwarven Boulder Helmet - Always threaten adjacent foes with a headbutt, +2 AC vs crit confirms, and +2 to bull rush if you violate NFL regulations and lead with your helmet, all for just 20 gp. And it works great with...
4. Hard-Headed, Dented Helm, Cloven Helm feat chain - Bonuses to head butt or bull rush with your helmet, saves vs staggered or stunned, AC vs crits, and reduces damage from crits. Just be sure to keep extra helmets in your Handy Haversack once you get that Dented Helm feat at level 6, since crits could sunder the one you're wearing down to nothing. They're only 20 gp, so feel free to go through them like popcorn.
5. Power Attack - Duh!
6. Improved and Greater Bull Rush feats - Since the helm and archetype already give you bonuses for bull rushes, you may as well go all the way with it. No weird prerequisites like some combat maneuver feats that require Combat Expertise. You just need Power Attack and 13 str for Improved Bull Rush, which you'll already have.
7. Relentless and Rock Stepper alternate racial traits - More bonuses to bull rushes, and ability to 5 ft step through the mess you make in the ground with your hammer.
It's probably not going to be the strongest, most uber-optimized front liner around, but you can easily start with 17 strength, boosted to 18 at level 4, plus Power Attack, on a 2d6 weapon with full BAB. The fact that you'll have reach and bonuses to trip will give a little battlefield control, and you'll easily be able to push people around with bull rushes.