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Vampire Druid can make sure it's always cloudy.
Did anyone ever saw the Lich and Vampire options made by the old DiceFreaks community (which today, as far as I know, is heavily damaged after the loss of the old website) for 3.5 ed.?
They made them grow in power with age, acquire new abilities and overcome weaknesses. Although needing a bit of a tweak (other than a Pathfinder conversion), they were pretty good, and I really liked the concept of Elder Lich / Elder Vampire (who said Kain of Nosgoth?), becoming truly ancient forces of unholy horror.
I really wish Paizo would make books with such rules for them (and Ghosts too).
Now if we assume no class levels come with the template and it is just applied to you.
I would go for vampire instead of lich.
... Lich... Then research a spell to give me Vampire stuff without the weaknesses.
No, seriously, much as I love vampires (and protective penumbra/darkness/etc), I'd play a lich.
Rotting body? Only if you stop doing what you do to take care of it. *holds up Undead Revisted* This thing says so right here. One ring of sustenance is going to be your anti-rot device.
Vampires are awesome... But too many weaknesses. As a Lich, all I've gotta do is play some sneaky tricks with my Phylactery.
I am not counting the number of drawbacks or number of benefits. I look at the quality of them and whether or not they can be easily over come.
The only drawback for vampire that cannot easily be overcome is the coffin. That in my opinion is where the lich has it better than a vampire.
I as a sexual being am ok with the coffin thing if i get to satiate my physical needs.
For me, being a lich would be to oppressive.
Would just like to point out the running water thing.
A. That's what dimension door is for.
B. if your race has a swim speed, you are automatically immune to that weakness. Lizardfolk/Merfolk Vampire FTW.
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Liches have to be 11th level spell casters while vampires have to be 5th level characters.
Actually, they don't. Here is a Commoner Lich. You can use Master Craftsman to create the phylactery without spellcasting.
Casts revive thread...
The coffin "leash" limitation can be overcome by a contingent teleport, no? Cast contingency to activate a teleport spell if one is forced into gaseous form via hit point damage. Teleport back to coffin which can then be hundreds of miles away. Not interplanar goodness like the Lich's phylactery but still much more freeing. Can't a vampire have more than one coffin as well? Contingently teleport to nearest coffin. Seed entire plane with dozens of coffins. Limitation overcome.
Lich, so long as I can void the alignment restriction. I'll just learn Daywalker, god. Rotting undead are undead that no one is looking after; keeping a corpse in good, clean shape is trivial for a caster.
Depending on where I "live" there's a high probability that I'm not even gonna hide it, just hang out being an awesome skeleton with a sweet crown (I assume I get a crown with my lich starter kit). I'll save Daywalker for when I really want to have biological processes for one reason or another.
The blood thing is easily overcome: you just found (or finance) an organization that collects voluntarily-donated blood for medical use, like the vampires did in real life.
...what? You didn’t think the Red Cross was founded out of altruism, did you?
I'd rather be a sexy mysterious vampire mans than a stiff rotten lich mans.
Sitting on a throne, throwing wine glasses at the floor, shouting "WHAT IS A MAN?" Good times...
I know, this thread has been necro'd after several years and all, but I was going back over the comments and wanted to bring this up:
Isn't Castlevania's Dracula basically a fancy lich? With the entire castle serving as his phylactery? He gets killed by some pesky hero every century or so and comes back. So he is getting the better end of lich powers as his staple and signature element.
You know... you could be a dhampir AND a lich.
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You know... you could be a dhampir AND a lich.
It isn't even that hard to justify it with the classic "I hate you vampire dad!" storyline.
Rebellious teenaged Dhampir masters necromancy and becomes lich to spite vampire parent. Starts a heavy metal band.
I have a new character.
Rebellious teenaged Dhampir masters necromancy and becomes lich to spite vampire parent. Starts a heavy metal band.
I have a new character.
Plans to practice for a couple of centuries (since you need that to close the gap when dealing with immortals).
In seriousness- facing a powerful and well connected vampire is hard. Really good vampires know when to go when the going is good. If you don't have protagonist powers (which always gets you in the right place at the right time), you might have to spend decades slowly dismantling the vampire's organizations before you can corner him. So going lich is a good way to buy time and to make yourself a harder nut to crack.
Lichdom is also a good way to turn into the cool new kid in the local Whispering Way branch (and thus you steal one of the vampire dad's supports). You could also provide some internal strife between the Urgathoa followers (which likely has a strong vampire demographic since that is the race with good hedonism) and the Orcus followers (death and aggression are good qualities when your primary goal in life is to punch out your dad).
Personaly I like the mummy lord
Vampire, for the only reason that as a Vampire you can gain an immortal companion from more or less anyone anywhere.
Not everyone can become a lich and join you in eternity, but you can turn almost any mortal into a vampire.
Who wants to face eternity alone?
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Vampire, for the only reason that as a Vampire you can gain an immortal companion from more or less anyone anywhere.
Not everyone can become a lich and join you in eternity, but you can turn almost any mortal into a vampire.
Who wants to face eternity alone?
Bah. Just ask the elves- you get sick of the same person after a couple of centuries. That is why they are such hardcore worshipers of Calistria- they need to shake things up every so often, and you learn to value the exciting moments (read: the time the cops had to get called because your wife found you with her sister and thus she summoned wasps)
You soon realize that that hot fling was destined to be some bored mormon stay at home mom that thought that vampires sparkled in the sunlight. And turning her into a vampire does little to change how bland and basic she is deep inside.
Well... that's why Sires can eliminate their children as necessary.
I don't want any companions who can't make their own phylactery. In fact, it's a good litmus test for having a pal that you can treat as an equal.
Ah but would you trust them with the location of yours?
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Ah but would you trust them with the location of yours?
No. But again- eternity is a really, really long time, and has a lot of effects on a relationship. 'Trust' is something born of the moment- each person at that time, their goals at that time, and the circumstances at that time. Each of those change over time- some greed, some offense, or some hostage will eventually show up over the course of millennia. Outside of a generic affirmation at the moment... I do not 'trust' people I like. I 'trust' fools that I control. When I respect a person, I try to understand that they have their own goals and opinions that might bring them into conflict with me. Eternity means that you will live long enough for this conflict to become inevitable.
A good relationship should be built on mutual respect and at least somewhat equal footing- maybe not the usual wealth and political power, but a power that is seen as valuable between the parties involved. In most relationships, this is the power to end the relationship (to break up). The fear of this threatening power means that you cannot overstep your bounds without risking a loss.
How does this apply to liches? When one becomes a lich, they become used to certain types of behaviors- they can't be directly killed, and they could just hide away in a cave for a century or two waiting for most opponents to die of old age. You become confident in your power, and you are more willing to take risks in social interactions. You look down upon the frail, short lived people around you.
But when the other side is also a lich? When you know that the other side could suicide, escape to their lair, and then run away to plot revenge? That means that you have to have a basic respect for their power and their opinion. In most relationships, such power would lead to fear (king usually end up sending heroes to face liches)... but when you are also a lich... you still have that fear, but you also have confidence in your own means. Each of you are powerful enough to become a lich, and you have the innate talents of a lich that supports your power. That means that it is relatively easy to hit the balance of at least moderate respect.
In comparison, vampires face a steep hierarchical relationship. When you try to turn that pretty young mortal into a companion via create spawn, they will be enslaved to your will- they will eventually turn into a servant (a pampered one at best). Even if you free that new vampire from your control... but a break up will be near inevitable centuries later (she will eventually gain enough power/influence to ignore your power as a lord; then, you are back to normal mortal relationship). Once that break up happens... you will reconsider whether or not to release the next enslaved fling (and this brings us back to the 'trust' of those you control).
Sidenote- I am having fun considering the moral and psychological quandaries associated with power dynamics and created roles in the undead community.
Oh I'm not hiding my phylactery. Too dangerous. I'll keep it with me and use some contingencies to make sure it vacates the premises if I get destroyed. Or maybe a purposely misaimed long range teleport that keys on my being attacked. It'll be a pain to find it again (unless I rejuvinate at the location of the phylactery, but that can be questionable at times), but if *I* don't know where it is, then anyone else will have even more trouble, which should give me plenty of time to rejuvinate.
The only drawback for vampire that cannot easily be overcome is the coffin.
Might be helpful to mess around with permanent shrink item or other item modification spells...
The universe is big, and so is the endless void of space. If you're a powerful enough lich place a spellbook (if you need one) and your phylactery in there and set it adrift in space, in some sort of protective container. Make sure you don't do this unless you have interplanetary transport available to you.
As long as your phylactery doesn't need to be accessible to do its job, seems like you could bury it under the foundation of a secret room in your hidden lair or something. Unless they annihilated the entire place or thought to take it apart stone by stone, how would they ever find it? With spells like Mud to Stone, you could literally fuse it into the wall if you wanted.
Alternatively, if you can assure immunity to fire damage, maybe throw it into the path of an active lava flow. In a few years, you probably wouldn't even be able to find its exact location. How would anyone else, without blindly chipping their way through kilotons of basalt?
As long as your phylactery doesn't need to be accessible to do its job, seems like you could bury it under the foundation of a secret room in your hidden lair or something. Unless they annihilated the entire place or thought to take it apart stone by stone, how would they ever find it? With spells like Mud to Stone, you could literally fuse it into the wall if you wanted.
Alternatively, if you can assure immunity to fire damage, maybe throw it into the path of an active lava flow. In a few years, you probably wouldn't even be able to find its exact location. How would anyone else, without blindly chipping their way through kilotons of basalt?
If I was hunting a lich and found his lair, one of the first things I would do would be to summon up some earth elementals. They are great scouts, and they are not bothered by walls- perfect for finding things that are buried like that.
Actually, I would be worried about regular, wild earth elementals and other burrowing beasts if you just leave it lying around like that. It is hard for heros to find it, but random monsters might have the traits that allow it to happen.
There are a lot of ways to hide a phylactery so well that not even the most determined PCs could ever find it.
Liches are still vulnerable to being imprisoned without being killed, though, and trap the soul works on them.
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Sorry for the mini necro in this conversation on undead- the strongest bonds that liches can share is a sense of mutually assured destruction.
Even if you feel that you can easily beat the other lich... it is hard. Very, very hard. There is a chance that the other lich hides its back up plans well enough to keep you off the trail for centuries.
That means that there are countless centuries where you always have to worry about the other lich coming back. Sure, you can seal him... but time makes a fool of us all- that cave that was perfectly safe 1000 years ago suddenly turned into a heavily populated area and some idiot goes poking around. Or maybe just a cave in that breaks the sealing item.
Unless you fully destroy the other lich, then it is a safer bet that he will escape and make revenge his #1 priority. So it is better to just make peace when you can, and make sure the other side knows you have the same ability to be a thorn in the other's side if they cross you. Just sit in different corners and not get involved in each other's business.
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Throw a phylactery into a volcano and let it sink into the molten crust.
Dig a deep hole in a random spot somewhere in the world and fill it back up.
Toss one into the depths of the ocean and let it rest in the deepest trench.
Make it buoyant and invisible, releasing it into the upper atmosphere, drifting in the wind.
Banish it into the depths of space where none could ever hope to follow.
Fire, Earth, Water, Air, and Void. Something of a riddle, isn't it?
Plenty of good places to hide your soul, and eternity will give you plenty of time to bring yourself omnipotence.
Throw a phylactery into a volcano and let it sink into the molten crust.
Dig a deep hole in a random spot somewhere in the world and fill it back up.
Toss one into the depths of the ocean and let it rest in the deepest trench.
Make it buoyant and invisible, releasing it into the upper atmosphere, drifting in the wind.
Banish it into the depths of space where none could ever hope to follow.Fire, Earth, Water, Air, and Void. Something of a riddle, isn't it?
Plenty of good places to hide your soul, and eternity will give you plenty of time to bring yourself omnipotence.
That is also an eternity where thee phylactery is in a difficult place for you to get it as well.
Those solutions are fine if your primary enemies are humans... but eternity is a very long time to get on the bad side of elemental lords (which means various ways to get around extreme environments), or for the thing to just drift into the maw of a great old one.
we had a 'way of the wicked' game where the gm asked us this question.(as templates to turn into)
as both were +2 template i asked if i could have my anti-paladin go graveknight he agreed
- it was totally worth it! ( GO LORD SOTH!)
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Throw a phylactery into a volcano and let it sink into the molten crust.
Dig a deep hole in a random spot somewhere in the world and fill it back up.
Toss one into the depths of the ocean and let it rest in the deepest trench.
Make it buoyant and invisible, releasing it into the upper atmosphere, drifting in the wind.
Banish it into the depths of space where none could ever hope to follow.Fire, Earth, Water, Air, and Void. Something of a riddle, isn't it?
Plenty of good places to hide your soul, and eternity will give you plenty of time to bring yourself omnipotence.
Watch out for memory charms. Or geas. Wait. Immunity to mind affecting effects. I suppose that alone is enough to make a singular phylactery better than a hundred horcruxes.
Still vulnerable to being polymorphed into a rock, though.
Still vulnerable to being polymorphed into a rock, though.It's even better than that: Rejuvenation is a supernatural ability, so a single baleful polymorph can be enough to get rid of it and kill them for good.
Except liches are immune to baleful polymorph. You'll need a polymorph effect that affects objects.
But that's just nitpicking. Also, thanks for the link to the over the top assassinations. I particularly liked the one where you put monk of the healing hand in a demiplane.