Ok, looking for some ideas.
Let's say you are able to capture a high level opponent, given the rules baseline in Pathfinder, how would you go about ensuring that he could not escape with outside help?
What I'm looking for is a way to prevent the knowledge of where this prisoner's location is from the enemy to prevent an escape attempt or rescue attempt from succeeding.
Difficulty: You are the player, the "rescuers" are the DM.
To make it perfectly clear from the start. You can't assure that a DM can't do it. If the DM wants it, it happens.
However, a good DM will recognize the players' attempt and throw them a bone if they cover all the big holes and play good when fending off the rescuers.
This also really depends on what levels you are on. At 1-5 I'd say that having a way to detect invisible/disguised intruders would have it all covered, as there's no teleportation around those levels.
A bit later we're looking at having to build a box of lead and a way to prevent teleportation.
Further clarification, rescuers are 17th-20th level, and DM is naturally self-limiting to abilities that his PCs have (ergo, these are essentially PCs being run by the GM as adversaries).
Turning them into an undead and hiding/protecting the undead creature works for most cases. It's up to the DM whether the resultant (most likely weak) undead creature could be dispatched by a wish or miracle easily.
Putting them into a lead box and moving the lead box to a remote location is a good start, too.
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Are you required to keep them alive? If not, a Bag of Devouring will provide a 50% chance of preventing even Wish, Miracle, and True Resurrection from ever working.
Imprisonment or Trap the Soul.
What about creating your own demiplane?
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Trap the Soul is probably the best most available way.
The best way period is to use one of the Final Blades of the Grey Gardners of Galt.
Back in 3e I hunted down a guy's soul in the afterlife and destroyed that too. Not sure how effective that is in Pathfinder though.
Were I to really to try and make sure the enemies didn't get the information that the character had I would attempt to induce a natural reincarnation, get the soul to be reborn as a whole new person. I feel like there isn't much in terms of options for recovering past lives information.
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Rita the Rogue: ......Is that your card?
Lord Baron Whoopass von Badass: (draws The Gems from a deck of many things. Gemstones bamf into existence around him) No.
Rita: Damn... ......is that your card?!
Lord Baron: (draws The Star. He immediately looks tougher) No!
Rita: Guys, this was a really bad idea.
Freddy the Fighter: Can't we just kill him? Just capturing him was such a pain in the ass.
Katelyn the Kineticist: No, we gotta hold him. We're the good guys.
Rita: ......Is this your card!? This one!?
Lord Baron: (draws The Sun and The Vizier. A +1 frost burst impact greatsword bamfs into existence next to him) You've forced nine cards from that deck onto me. You're never going to get The Void!
Rita: You said that six cards ago. ...Is THIS your card?!
1) Dominate Monster.
1b) Order them to voluntarily fail all saves against spells you cast.
1c) Go to step 1 if they break dominate.
2) Use Metamagic Rod - Cast Mind Blank on Yourself
3) Use Metamagic Rod - Cast Mind Blank on the creature.
4) Use Greater Teleport to teleport to a random inhospitable location.
5) Use Metamagic Rod - Cast Imprisonment
6) Teleport Away.
7) Every day, approximately 10 to 15 minutes shorter than the previous day, Greater Teleport to the location, Cast Freedom, Refresh Mind Blank, Cast Imprisonment again.
8) Every 19 Days, Re-cast Dominate Monster
Since you both have Mind Blank, you are protected from all means to detect you, even Miracle and Wish. It is functionally impossible for them to ever find you or the prisoner through magical means.
The extend rods are primarily utilized to give a "buffer" of overlap time in case something interferes with the planned routine.
If they play the "Deific Intervention" card, then they just want to win anyway.
One COULD even make the argument that the refreshing is unnecessary based on the wording of Temporal Stasis, but this way leaves no GM Fiat.
Edited (Accidentally thought of 24 Hours instead of Days, fixed Dominate Monster recast time.)
Robb Smith, there is a fair amount of variability in whether or not you can order them to fail saves against you without it violating the "any subject forced to take actions against its nature" clause. I would say it's against everything's nature to purposefully fail saves against someone that would otherwise be an enemy.
Though, you may be accounting for that in step 1c, just wanted to point that out.
Robb Smith, there is a fair amount of variability in whether or not you can order them to fail saves against you without it violating the "any subject forced to take actions against its nature" clause. I would say it's against everything's nature to purposefully fail saves against someone that would otherwise be an enemy.
Though, you may be accounting for that in step 1c, just wanted to point that out.
Yup, 1C exists in case they make their save. You just wash, rinse, repeat till they don't. Only need to do it once. It won't work if the target is immune to mind affecting abilities, but that wasn't stipulated. Even then it's doable, just a bit harder... most humanoids have little to no chance against a level 20 sorcerer repeatedly casting spells on them over and over.
Yup, 1C exists in case they make their save. You just wash, rinse, repeat till they don't. Only need to do it once. It won't work if the target is immune to mind affecting abilities, but that wasn't stipulated. Even then it's doable, just a bit harder... most humanoids have little to no chance against a level 20 sorcerer repeatedly casting spells on them over and over.
While true, it's also rare that a sorcerer will have someone so completely at their mercy that they can repeatedly cast spells and fail to successfully affect the enemy without being in some sort of danger.
While true, it's also rare that a sorcerer will have someone so completely at their mercy that they can repeatedly cast spells and fail to successfully affect the enemy without being in some sort of danger.Yup, 1C exists in case they make their save. You just wash, rinse, repeat till they don't. Only need to do it once. It won't work if the target is immune to mind affecting abilities, but that wasn't stipulated. Even then it's doable, just a bit harder... most humanoids have little to no chance against a level 20 sorcerer repeatedly casting spells on them over and over.
True. Though, this is a contingency. In the event that this was the situation, there's many things that can be done to make them substantially weaker beforehand. The implication that they're a prisoner to me carries the implication that at some point, at least at the beginning, they are at your mercy. Some Blindness/Deafness action, some Greater Bestow Curses... if they're immune to the EZ-Mode dominate route, you will just have to make them weak as a kitten before putting them in their cage.
1) Dominate Monster.
1b) Order them to voluntarily fail all saves against spells you cast.
This is an obviously self-destructive order and would autofail.
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If you want to help them fail those saves (and make them generally less able to escape), I suggest giving them a sweet prison tat with some fire ink (ARG, ifrit section). Gives them the Sickened condition while the tat lasts. Plus it gives them a permanent night light to help navigate whatever deep, dark hole you toss them into.
1 dose glows as a candle, 4 or more on the same body part glow as a torch.
One question: how retrievable does the prisoner need to be? Do you need to keep it in one piece, or will there be issues if you turn it into several pieces and scatter it around the realms like an ancient magical artifact?
Great ideas, guys.
We are dealing with High level priests of Orcus (this is a rappan athuk campaign). So, making them undead kinda just helps them, killing them allows for resurrection by true rez.
Avoron: those are fantastic combinations of spells. Excellent.
ZZTRaider: I'm not required to keep them alive, but as I said, True Rez is a problem in that once they die, they can be brought back, as well as with Arcane Discoveries, etc. I'd prefer permanent imprisonment.
Claxon: I like trap the soul, but they can be released and once that happens we are back to square one. It also doesn't intrinsically prevent divination.
So far, I think the combination of flesh to stone, Shrink Item (making them paper/papyrus and putting them in a book) -- permanent, with a lead box enchanted with sequester puts them out of reach from divination.
Anyone see any gaping holes in this plan? I'll be able to take care of the saving throw issue.
The only question is to determine how to prevent the box from being found until all of them are captured whereupon they all can be dealt with at once.
I suppose a wish can be used to erase all memory of their names to everyone except the party members.
Can we use Occult Adventures?
Assuming you are the same race as your target, cast Mind Swap, Major to permanently body switch with the target. If you are sentimental about your own body, cast it once to mind swap with a lowbie nondescript schlub, again to swap with your target, and a third time to jump back to your original body (leaving your target and hapless bystander in each other's bodies).
Then, flesh to stone on your target (both of them if applicable), then permanent Sequester on the statue(s) you have created.
He isn't dead, so even True Res doesn't work. Even if they manage to find his petrified body by groping for it, well, it isn't really him because another mind is in it permanently. As for finding his mind, they don't even know what his body looks like, much less where it is.
Difficulty: You are the player, the "rescuers" are the DM.
Cast Wish, wish for the person to be sealed in Rovagug's prison.
Death: If someone dies of old age, reincarnation brings them back and resets their physical aging penalties to that of a young adult.
Is it possible to create a demiplane with accelerated relative time?
Death from old age is the most permanent death in the game.
Any kind of death that leave a Soul behind will leave a soul that can be interrogated. Eliminate the Soul, eliminate the info.
Next best thing would be to find a natural way for the soul to Reincarnate so that it has been cleansed of the knowledge of its past life. Unfortunately, we are unlikely to get actual rules for that.
If you really need to keep this information out of the hands of the enemy you'll need to find a way to erase it Akashic Record so that your enemy can't collect it there once you've disposed of your prisoner.
He could kill the person, trap the person's soul in a soul gem, go to Azmodeous' court in the lowest level of hell, and convince the Arch Devil to "hold on to the soul gem, forever."
Of course, he might just kill you for showing up.
Almost forgot, with the Mind Swap, Major method (see above), if you use a hapless third person use a newborn baby because: 1) Terrible Will save. 2) If seekers manage to find their mark's body and un-petrify it the mind in that body won't be able to tell them anything. Not even with torture. It won't even know what its native body looks like or what its name is. Even with mind reading they won't get any useful info. 3) If the baby doesn't even have a name that is one less bit of info they might use for scrying. 4) Smaller body you trap the mark's mind in means a smaller rock to hide after you petrify it.
Note: May run afoul of that right/wrong thing people are always going on about.
If the goal is to stop anyone ever getting access to the prisoner and nothing else, shove the guy into a Sphere of Annihilation. Problem solved. Nothing short of divine intervention will help (which I don't think can be stopped by anything). An uber-wish from a deck of many things could probably do the same.
Simple really use lesser create demi plane to create a temporary plane. From this plane use greater create demi plane to create a permanent timeless non magical plane with a gate to the previously created plane. On the greater plane create a prison using whatever means you want magic, non-magic etc. Wait until the duration of the previous plane is almost up and then put the person in the prison created on the greater plane. The prison gust hast to be able to contain the person until the first plane dissolves.
You could just polymorph them into a kitten. Actually just a cat. Now quest them to kill rats and mice at a farm. Permanent nondetection is good. Once they have their first kill as a cat they will probably fail their save to retain their humanoid identity.
Find the place with all the petrified criminals. Turn them into an owlbear, petrify them, and mix them up with other petrified owlbears. Detection spells are rubbish picking your target out of a crowd. If your GM has been throwing dire owlbears at you he dug his own hole. If you stone to flesh an owlbear it will attack you or the nearest statue. Make a deal with some inevitables to guard the place, and add some chaotic scum of their own.
I'll link the topic with the place when I find it.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rtbg&page=2?1001-Wonders-of-the-World#91
Go to Menagery..
Nothing short of divine intervention will help (which I don't think can be stopped by anything).Well, it sort of can, but it requires loads of GM discretion and a Helm of Opposite Alignment.
1. Travel with the prisoner to a personal demiplane cut off from the outside world.
2. Alter their alignment with a Helm of Opposite Alignment.
2. Cast Geas on them, instructing them to retrain all of their levels into Monk of the Healing Hand, and giving them arena battles with captured opponents as necessary to level them up to level 20.
3. Use a combination of spells and Diplomacy to raise their attitude to helpful. Then begin a long process of of using Modify Memory and Bluff to gradually convince them that their deity's true purpose for them requires them to sacrifice their life to resurrect others with their True Sacrifice ability for [insert some campaign specific cause]. Lowering their mental ability scores could make this easier. Then orchestrate some situation where they believe it is necessary to make this sacrifice, perhaps through use of illusions.
4. Once they use True Sacrifice, it is literally impossible for them to ever be brought back to life. This ability overrides everything in the game, including the power of a deity. They are as dead as anyone will ever get.
And people think the monk isn't useful for anything.
Almost forgot, with the Mind Swap, Major method (see above), if you use a hapless third person use a newborn baby because: 1) Terrible Will save. 2) If seekers manage to find their mark's body and un-petrify it the mind in that body won't be able to tell them anything. Not even with torture. It won't even know what its native body looks like or what its name is. Even with mind reading they won't get any useful info. 3) If the baby doesn't even have a name that is one less bit of info they might use for scrying. 4) Smaller body you trap the mark's mind in means a smaller rock to hide after you petrify it.
Note: May run afoul of that right/wrong thing people are always going on about.
Finally, a use for the goblin baby
easy way?
kill him, get a cacodaemon to make a soul gem out of his soul ( improved familier, souldrinker prestige class or summon cacodaemon spell.)
and make the daemon eat the soul gem, completely destroying it and giving him fast healing 2 for 1 round/hd of the dead guy. done deal.
hack if you took the prestige class you can pop that soul gem into your mouth like a candy from a Pezz dispenser and consume it yourself.
but that is not the "classy way"
you want prince charming out of the way with style?
beside the above daemon get arcane mark, antimagic sphere and permanency as part of your spell list. make a nice long dungeon, don't skimp on the mutated piranha pool (just put a sign saying "no lifeguard - no swimming" and leave a shiny copper piece in it ,some 1 is bound to jump in). and at the end of this maze have the room ready.(it should have high enough ceiling so you can scry form it even though it has antimagic in it)
first cast the arcane mark on the walls (i'll alter explain what is that for). kill the prince charming, make the daemon turn his soul to a gem. then use the soul to power the scribing of an antimagic sphere scroll (this should consume the soul, but might still lead people who look for it to the antimagic as the last remains of the soul's power) cast it in that room .and make it permanent.
now sit back and wait for snow white to look for her one true love( or if your impatience put on that apple seller costume on and be that knowing bard using legend lore to direct her to it).
watch the fun through a wide screen full HD plasma crystal ball.
when she will finally get to the soul's last remaining place. the antiamgic should more or less obscure any more deviation of it's location and so it would be knocked down, and this is where the arcane marks show up again reading
" Dear snow white, if you are reading this then the last remaining shreds of prince charming soul has just been destroyed, have a happy ever after, Mother"
Slay Orcus.
Then they lose all spells and you can hack them to pieces in a convenient order.
One problem: Clones.
Pathfinder-wise, are barghests still able to devour souls?