A-zombie,
I'd settle for an all Potter reunion tour in 2025.
Phantom,
It's been a while but I recall back in the 90s when Underworld Unleashed came out, he had five villains sell their souls to Neron to get him real magic.
But yes originally and through most of his career, he used advanced 64th century tech to do stage type magic along side what might be seen as real magic.
Vendor - Fantasiapelit Tampere
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His recent appearance in Titans, targeting Wally and friends, was awesome.And while this TV version wasn't the same, it was still fun to watch. Overall, I was ok with it. The actor did a wonderful job. Very different from his performance in Antman.
Yes, that comic was very, very good and I loved how silly but dangerous Abra Kadabra was there.
David Dastamalchian was also in Dark Knight. He was Thomas Schiff, the guy Harvey interrogates in the train tracks.
I think it's more the fact this version since he's not actually magically empowered.....That his "magic" was all tech-based is one of the things I actually liked about this version. It sticks with his original (and long running) power set. In the comics, it's what made him travel to the past to begin with - because tech had made magic obsolete, and he wanted the adulation of the audiences. Hence his moniker. I wish they'd gone more into that.Awwww... are you guys saying they screwed up Abra in the comics?? I always loved the idea of time traveling super-science pretending to be magic. I thought he was one of my favorite Flash villains ever.
I hadn't heard about the 'upgrade'... way to take something unique and make it mundane...
I don't recall saying the comics screwed him up. Quite the opposite, in fact. While in recent years they may have added a bit more actual magic to his power set, his personality has pretty much remained the same, albeit slightly more unhinged and murderous. His recent appearance in Titans, targeting Wally and friends, was awesome.
With all the focus I've seen on Felix Faust and Enchantress, and Constantine and Zatanna, and all the other JL Dark/Mystic characters that DC has... I always loved that Abra Kadabra was a total fake. Super Science and time travel knowledge felt completely unique... and giving him actual magic takes away from that.
I can't say I'm overly surprised that they'd go for an 'upgrade' like that... but I am disappointed.
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I think it's more the fact this version since he's not actually magically empowered.....That his "magic" was all tech-based is one of the things I actually liked about this version. It sticks with his original (and long running) power set. In the comics, it's what made him travel to the past to begin with - because tech had made magic obsolete, and he wanted the adulation of the audiences. Hence his moniker. I wish they'd gone more into that.Awwww... are you guys saying they screwed up Abra in the comics?? I always loved the idea of time traveling super-science pretending to be magic. I thought he was one of my favorite Flash villains ever.
I hadn't heard about the 'upgrade'... way to take something unique and make it mundane...
I don't recall saying the comics screwed him up. Quite the opposite, in fact. While in recent years they may have added a bit more actual magic to his power set, his personality has pretty much remained the same, albeit slightly more unhinged and murderous. His recent appearance in Titans, targeting Wally and friends, was awesome.
With all the focus I've seen on Felix Faust and Enchantress, and Constantine and Zatanna, and all the other JL Dark/Mystic characters that DC has... I always loved that Abra Kadabra was a total fake. Super Science and time travel knowledge felt completely unique... and giving him actual magic takes away from that.
I can't say I'm overly surprised that they'd go for an 'upgrade' like that... but I am disappointed.
I won't disagree with you. Giving him actual magical powers takes away from the character and the fundamental motivations that drive him.
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...Barry...Don't do it. Time Travel never works well for you. Don't fall for the trap of "Going to the future is different than going to the past"
...
..
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Damn it Barry.
Grey,
Well we HAD to have at least one more time travel thingie before season 4.
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Well, that started off extraordinarily depressing, but at least ended on some small ray of hope.
Poor Future Cisco. When he showed up with gloves on, looking all ragged, I kind of figured what was coming. That was a dick move by the writers.
I may be wrong, but from what I could see at the end, whomever Savitron is, he's a he. Could it be Ronnie Raymond? That would explain why Killer Frost would be so ready and willing to sign on to his team. From the preview, Barry made a pretty specific mention of Savitron & time. Maybe the destruction of the wormhole at the beginning of season 2 propelled Ronnie seperately through time, and he just hasn't emerged yet.
My other thought is - Future Barry mentioned something about Past Barry making a bunch of time remnants to help fight, but that Savitron killed them all. My questions are: What if they didn't all die? What if Barry wasn't the only one making them?
What if Savitron is a time remnant gone bad (or worse). He already has speed, but the suit augments it AND serves to hide him from time wraiths. If that were the case, Savitron could be any speedster - even Barry himself.
My final thinking is that it would be Jay, but I really hope they don't do something that douchebag-ish.
Edit: My final, final thinking is that I forgot about Eddie. Could be a restored Eddie in that suit.
Either way, I'm excited for next week's episode.
A-zombie,
Yeah its clear that Killer Frost wants to work with him. But why..remains pretty unclear other than she trust him.
Situation: You are a speedster. A dangerous metahuman is standing between you and an open powers-neutralizing containment cell. Do you:
a) grab her and throw her against the back wall of the cell, giving you the second or two needed to close the cell and render her harmless; or
b) run around her, get between her and the cell, punch her down the hall away from it, and let her escape?
*facepalm*
Future Barry said that Past Barry made a bunch of time remnants but that Savitar killed them all, mostly. That suggests at least one wasn't killed by Savitar.
Offhand I can't think of anyone Caitlin/Frost would instantly trust coming out of the Savitar suit except Ronnie. Or perhaps "herself" (Earth-2 Killer Frost.) But I don't think it's either of them, partly because I don't see any apparent reason for either to acquire speed powers.
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Situation: You are a speedster. A dangerous metahuman is standing between you and an open powers-neutralizing containment cell. Do you:
a) grab her and throw her against the back wall of the cell, giving you the second or two needed to close the cell and render her harmless; or
b) run around her, get between her and the cell, punch her down the hall away from it, and let her escape?
*facepalm*
And let's not forget his rookie crap facing down Top and Mirror Master. Yeah, she can f$!+ with your head just by making eye contact, Flash. So, please, just stand there, talking to them and...making eye contact. Or, he could have just hit them at super speed before they even knew he was there. Past Barry is a fool.
Future Barry said that Past Barry made a bunch of time remnants but that Savitar killed them all, mostly. That suggests at least one wasn't killed by Savitar.
Exactly! That's why one of my theories is Savitron could be a Barry time remnant gone bad. That would certainly be enough to snap his brain and make him the long-haired mess he was in the future.
Another theory I've seen making the rounds is this version of Savitron is being pulled from a 2014 comic story - that he is Future Flash, a more psychotic and murderous future version of Barry himself.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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I wondered if it was future wally after having his spine broken by Savitar then needing a suit to become Savitar. It would be a weird time paradox, but that goes with the territory of time travel.
I'm thinking that since no one expected 2017 Barry in 2024 that the entire trip he made was different and the 2024 Barry never made that trip 7 years prior, and thus the entire episode happened in a different timeline potentially from what our 2017 Barry will have in his future.
Time travel makes my head hurt...
But yes Joel that makes sense.
As for who Savitar is...I just don't see it being an evil Barry. Even a future one. I just think it has to be someone else. I guess we'll find out next episode.
(Also the previews hint he's a master of time...so Rip Hunter?!!)
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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I also wonder if it will have anything to do with the Legends of Tomorrow message from future Barry saying not to trust him, which could hint at Savitar being a future Barry, or it could be a long simmering plot point that comes up next season somewhere or further out even.
Savitar being a future Barry makes some sense, and fits with K Frost's statement that Barry is going to be "so surprised" when he finds out who it is...but I don't see why Evil Snow would instantly trust Barry as an ally and ask "what do you need me to do?" Isn't she far more likely to ask "Why would you want to help me?"
And ultimately Barry-as-Savitar doesn't feel right. We've seen what real tragedy does to Future Barry: he retreats into a pit of self-indulgent depression. What could possibly happen that would make him Eeeeeeevil and Hell bent on the destruction of everything his past self cared about?
Another Eobard Thawne? No. Another Zoom? No. Future Wally? I give up.
Another Eobard Thawne? No. Another Zoom? No. Future Wally? I give up.
Actually she may have some fond working arrangement memories with Thawne when he was Wells... Doesnt' make sense for this story, but then again, nothing else really does either. Though killing Barry's mom AND his girlfriend would certainly be in character/motivation... but not after LoT...
Evil Frost is a tough nut to crack. Basically if it was ANY of the Team Flash in that suit... she would still hate and want to kill them. Even someone like Ronnie who I really doubt would show up out of the blue 2-3 years after his death wouldn't register with her. Her heart is pretty frozen...
I'm having a hard time predicting this one... Maybe it was Jay all along? just at different points on the timeline playing a continual loop in the speedforce trap?
Earth 2 Killer Frost was still with Ronnie/Darkstorm. She has a heart, just harder to reach. For most people.
Yeah.... but that was evil Ronnie and they'd been together the whole time. No earth-1 Ronnie should be able to slip into that role the way they're implying. Snow and Frost are such vastly different people, I just can't see that going smoothly.
I'm not sure what it's going to be... but honestly, I'm getting to the point where I think they just haven't bothered with any actual clues and are going to give us some kind of 'out of left field' surprise ending that will be left unsatisfying.
Whatever they do... they have to explain the time travel... how his career started with future barry and came back to screw with young barry...
What is his connection to Flashpoint?
Iris wasn't meant to die per the future newspaper article. So despite everything else, This isn't some kind of 'fate'. This is still someone changing something.
What is the connection to Frost?
Honestly I'm stumped to anything that will answer everything there...
They keep telling Barry that when he finds out who Savitar is, it will break his heart. And when Savitar killed Iris he said "Now finally I am free of you Barry"
What if Savitar is Iris somehow?
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What could possibly happen that would make him Eeeeeeevil and Hell bent on the destruction of everything his past self cared about?
That's why I was thinking rogue time remnant. Created for the sole purpose of helping Barry fight Savitron. Only Barry now knows that Savitron kills the time remnants. So if he goes ahead and creates them anyway, it's like sentencing them to death. And since they have his memories and knowledge, it'd be like "Dude! You created me knowing Savitron was likely going to kill me. That's f#+&ed up. I hate you."
Either way, the other big question is...."Why the suit?" If whomever is inside initially used the suit to gain super speed, then it'll be a non-speedster. If the person in the suit was already a speedster, then he needed the suit for other reasons - to augment his power, or just disguise himself for some reason.
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Or, maybe it's Harrison Wells of Earth-2. He's certainly got the technical skills and knowledge of the speed force to create such a suit. Then it would just be a matter of why?
And that's the problem, I fear. The writers main goal is to catch as many people off guard as possible. No matter who it is, the writers will probably use (to borrow a phrase) timey-whimey stuff as an explanation, even if it makes little to no sense.
I am going with Wally, but honestly I only give him a slight edge over anyone else.
I'm going with Mercury Max and/or Bart Allen.
Because neither of them have shown up. :p :)
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Ronnie is my best guess.
I'm okay with Ronnie if only because nothing else is making sense in my head. But I could be wrong...
Green,
We already have that in Jay.
Greenie,
I don't think so. No. What I DO think is MAYBE it's one of the Legends? Maybe? I mean Master of Time is a HUGE hint you ask me.
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I keep coming back to K Frost's instant acceptance of whoever came out of the armor as someone she should trust. No one on Team Flash should provoke that reaction. I don't know why any of the Legends would, either.
I've already said I don't think it's Ronnie, but I have to admit it's the least unlikely suggestion I've heard on the basis of instant trust.
The problem is the other thing I keep coming back to is the statement that Barry is going to be "so surprised" when he finds out who it is. I don't think Ronnie would have the shock value that so many others would have. Nor should he know Team Flash intimately enough to know how to "use their love against them."
"Everything with you is about time, isn't it?" To me that only describes Rip Hunter and Eobard Thawne. For different reasons I'd dismissed both.
Man, Tuesday can't come soon enough.
Maybe its an alternate reality Barry. He's his own worst enemy. Eh Ronnie still my best guess.
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I'm going with Joe
0_o
Another Jay Garrick/Henry Allen?
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Something to consider, perhaps.....Killer Frost most likely does not actually trust whoever came out of that suit. Her mindset right now is that she doesn't like, and probably wants to hurt, Barry and the others. Her acceptance of helping the person in the suit is based on whether and how much that person can help do the hurting.
A-zombie,
That might be something but the same time I'm not convinced her Killer Frost persona would care about NOT killing/hurting them. Just because she didn't actively do it, doesn't mean she wasn't ready to.
Damon,
Well unless there's some OTHER Master of Time that we don't know about...I mean Abra? But that seems...weird.
Mark,
I doubt that seriously.
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So, it looks like we have a winner...
Whatever....Future Evil Savitron Barry sucks ass. The writer who thought that shit up should never again be allowed anywhere near a comic book super hero.
Not sure why he has what looked to be burns on his face. I was kind of hoping they'd use make up, so he'd appear older. Otherwise, they're just using the cheap way out, one distinguishing feature to tell Barry from SaviBarry. It's like Spock and his goatee.
But if SaviBarry is was Barry becomes without Iris, then why was Future Barry from last episode still able to play the hero and be normal? Is he not destined to become SaviBarry?
And the explanation for the suit seems a bit...off. The doctor seemed to be saying it was something similar to her earlier question about static discharge from moving so fast. If that's the case, then why doesn't he just have a suit made out of the same material as the current Flash uniform? Unless SaviBarry moves to fast for the original uniform to help.
Ultimately, this shit makes my head hurt. The writer's really should lay off whatever drugs they use to make them think all this time funk you up crap is a good thing.
And I'm going to be really pissed if they use that future story of Cisco losing his hands to Killer Frost. That would suck big, hairy goat balls.
Sheesh.
This was a disappointing reveal honestly. But at least now we get some greater insight into...stuff? Maybe?
I dunno.
Not just Future Barry, Future Time Remnant Barry. When (lowercase) future Flash fights Savitar, he makes a series of time remnants and Savitar kills 'almost all of them'.
So here you have a time remnant Flash created as a disposable weapon, by a (at this point) pretty unstable Flash. He survives, but is presumably doomed as an aberration...might make him bitter.
I'm assuming he first spends a bit trying to outrun time wraiths/Black Flash, and goes faster than the costume can handle for a significant period of time, getting burnt.
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The more I think about it, the more it makes my head hurt...
However, the Future Barry who becomes SaviBarry has actually not yet made an appearance.....that we know of. He should show up, or Barry Prime should hunt him down, and imprison him in the speed force approximately four years from the current time frame.
So....I'm not really seeing how Barry Prime can defeat post-Speed Force Prison SaviBarry AND eventually imprison his future self to become SaviBarry. Being future versions of him, they should both know what he's going to do.
Oh yeah, and SaviBarry kills Iris, thus taking away Barry Prime's one true love and cementing his turn into Future Evil Barry, who then gets locked away and becomes SaviBarry.
AAAARRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!
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One other thing I was thinking about.....
In my mind, Iris' death would be SaviBarry's worst memory, so he'd see it over and over again while trapped.
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Yeah, there are some consistency issues;
Meanwhile, SaviBarry is trying to get Killer Frost to kill Tracy... and strangely passing up the chance to do so himself. The obvious answer might be that he needs to preserve a past timeline... except that Killer Frost DIDN'T kill Tracy in the EmoBarry timeline. Team Flash didn't even know about her until years later. The timeline has already changed... so how can Savitar know the exact timing of words for this new timeline which differs from his personal past?
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I am the future, Flash.
I am the future Flash.