Captain America: The Winter Soldier


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Removed some posts. Please leave the insults out of the conversation. Also, we have a flag for spoilers and encourage the use of these tags (and err on the side of caution when things are flagged for spoilers).

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

I've got another easter egg question for anyone sharp eyed enough.

Spoiler:
During the targeting scene on the carrier, when close to a million targets were being acquired - there were lots of names shown on the map, but most were too quick for me to pick out. The only one that specifically caught my eye was the president. Did anyone else catch others which might have been easter eggs?


I definitely saw

Spoiler:
Anthony Stark.
Didn't catch any others.


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Spoiler:
I saw the Prez and Stark...and Banner!


JoelF847 wrote:
I liked the name dropping of ** spoiler omitted **

I found it highly amusing that they thought something as simple as an air strike would remove someone like him from the equation..unless this is pre-powers.


Article with lots of comments and observations on the movie, including various easter eggs.
All the Secrets and References in Captain America: The Winter Soldier.

Obviously it's full of spoilers!

The Exchange

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A fun one I didn't see mentioned yet in this thread is when Fury first presents the three super aircrafts to the Cap. When CA sees the new levitating engines, he asks is Stark Industries have something to do with them, and Fury says that "after taking a close look at our old turbines, Stark decided to help", or something like that.

The aforementioned "close look" is when he caught in them during the air battle in The Avengers.


Laurefindel wrote:
Kthulhu wrote:
Laurefindel wrote:
Impressive amount of destruction without leveling yet another city of the US...
I dunno, we may not have seen the full extent of the damage, but I can't imagine that three aircraft carriers falling out of the sky into a metropolitan area (in addition to all the previous damage they did), didn't seriously f%~% that city up.
nah, they conveniently fell from 8000 ft right into their hangar. Now all they have to no is clean-up the probably very hazardous residual chemical and/or radioactivity that will otherwise pollute the whole east coast...

I thought the energy they used was clean, due to the Stark involvement.


GentleGiant wrote:
Obviously it's full of spoilers!

Whoo!

Spoiler:
Scarlet Witch!

I had not guessed that one.


Something else I caught on a repeat viewing with the room mates

Spoiler:
Throughout the movie, Black Widow is wearing a necklace with an arrow on it...nice Hawkeye reference there


GentleGiant wrote:

Article with lots of comments and observations on the movie, including various easter eggs.

All the Secrets and References in Captain America: The Winter Soldier.

Obviously it's full of spoilers!

Wow that's a cool site! Thanks for linking it!


Dazylar wrote:
Laurefindel wrote:
Kthulhu wrote:
Laurefindel wrote:
Impressive amount of destruction without leveling yet another city of the US...
I dunno, we may not have seen the full extent of the damage, but I can't imagine that three aircraft carriers falling out of the sky into a metropolitan area (in addition to all the previous damage they did), didn't seriously f%~% that city up.
nah, they conveniently fell from 8000 ft right into their hangar. Now all they have to no is clean-up the probably very hazardous residual chemical and/or radioactivity that will otherwise pollute the whole east coast...
I thought the energy they used was clean, due to the Stark involvement.

Comment was partially sarcastic due to how conveniently the carrier fell down into their hangar...

That being said, Stark's technology might be clean and sustainable as long as its runs smoothly, but not much is said about when it's damaged. Technically, a nuclear reactor runs perfectly clean... as long as all radioactive components are contained.


I wonder what Walter Peck would do if he went to Stark industries? Get a court order to shut down all the ARC reactors.


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"It's true ... this man has no ARC."

Dark Archive

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Probably the best of the franchise since Iron Man I, I love all the little in jokes.

I saw a few more cool easter eggs

Spoiler:
Steve's "To-Do" list of cultural events and items since World War II that he wants to catch up on reads: I Love Lucy; Moon Landing; Berlin Wall (Up + Down) Steve Jobs (Apple); Disco; Thai Food; Star Wars/Trek (with Star Wars crossed out, indicating that he had seen it); Nirvana (Band); Rocky (Rocky II?); Troubleman (Soundtrack). This list varies slightly in the UK: instead of I Love Lucy, the TV show at the top is Sherlock, and the Berlin Wall, Steve Jobs, and Disco are replaced by The Beatles, World Cup Final (1966), and Sean Connery. The Luc Besson movie The Fifth Element is on the list in France. In the Australian release it includes the popular chocolate biscuits, Tim Tams.

Nick Fury (Samuel L. Jackson) relates a story of his grandfather being an elevator operator. In real life, Samuel L. Jackson father was an elevator operator.

Nick Fury's grave bears the epitaph - "The path of the righteous man. Ezekiel 25:17." This is a favourite line of Jules Winnifield (Samuel L. Jackson) in Pulp Fiction.

First film in the Marvel Cinematic Universe to reveal Nick Fury's blind eye.

Tommy Lee Jones's portrait in the secret SHIELD office.

There is a brief mention of a Canadian agency called Department H by Natasha Romanoff, which was the organization that experimented on Wolverine and gave him his Adamantium-bonded skeleton in the Marvel comics.

Sitwell mentions specific persons of interest to HYDRA, did you catch the Dr. Strange mention?

In the distant shots of DC, it is noticeable that SHIELD headquarters is built ironically next to the Watergate complex.

When the helicarriers are being launched and the program is selecting targets for elimination, the name Tony Stark can be seen as well as Bruce Banner.

When Helicarriers look for their targets on one of the monitors there is a wire-frame model of formerly Stark Tower in New York now sporting the Avengers Sign.

Agent 13's true identity is Sharon Carter, Peggy Carter's niece.

The big bad at the end credits.

The two subjects in the HYDRA base in the last credit scene are the Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver.

Garry Shandling is part of Hydra. I KNEW IT!


baron arem heshvaun wrote:

Probably the best of the franchise since Iron Man I, I love all the little in jokes.

I saw a few more cool easter eggs

** spoiler omitted **...

Spoiler:
Star Wars/Trek (with Star Wars crossed out, indicating that he had seen it)

Now, this might be my bias, but I thought he had crossed out Wars because he was told Trek was better, or just didn't like Space Opera. But as I said, I'm kinda biased... :-)


Dazylar wrote:
Spoiler:
baron arem heshvaun wrote:
Star Wars/Trek (with Star Wars crossed out, indicating that he had seen it)
...I thought he had crossed out Wars because he was told Trek was better, or just didn't like Space Opera.

Spoiler:
I think Steve Rogers would definitely prefer the optimism of pre-Deep Space Nine Star Trek. (He'd absolutely love Kirk's "Risk is our business" speech from "Return to Tomorrow.") In my opinion, he'd also opine the last few movies absolutely sucked.

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Is the Dr Strange deal gonna be a netflix show, or a movie?
Any more scuttlebutt on this?

Sovereign Court

Dr. Strange will be a movie. As far as I know the four Netflix series will be: Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist and Jessica Jones

Sovereign Court

For Daredevil, my hopes are on this guy

Sovereign Court

Oh and according to this there will also be a Defenders mini-series... :)


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I wasn't into Dr. Strange much till I saw the animated movie that came out in 2008-ish. Since then I'm pretty interested in all things Strange.
I hope they do a great job with him, and work in a by play with Stark on magic vs tech :P

Sovereign Court

The Interwebs are saying that the Doc Strange movie will introduce a lot of magic elements in the MCU... (i.e. they have somewhat held off with anything related to the paranormal so far)

I'm thinking the movie usher in additional spellcasters / magic beasts such as Doctor Voodoo, Satana, Baron Mordo, Ghost Rider, Captain Britain, etc.


There were some interesting rumors a month or two ago about Johnny Depp as a candidate to portray the role of the Sorcerer Supreme but they got shot down last month kind of out of hand.


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A couple of things I noticed....

:
1) I found it interesting that both Hydras and Loki's stated goals are the same...'Mankind is hurt by freedom'. Makes you wonder...

2) I am starting to think the gem from loki's scepter if the Mind Stone.


Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

The Interwebs are saying that the Doc Strange movie will introduce a lot of magic elements in the MCU... (i.e. they have somewhat held off with anything related to the paranormal so far)

I'm thinking the movie usher in additional spellcasters / magic beasts such as Doctor Voodoo, Satana, Baron Mordo, Ghost Rider, Captain Britain, etc.

It's annoying, in that Thor is now stuck as super science, when he's clearly a mystical character.

Sovereign Court

Yes, they have written off the Asgardians as beings from another dimension with different body density, strength, etc. i.e. explained by tech/science.

Although Loki / Enchantress / Lorelei could definitely have sorcery. Actually MAoS had Sif confirm that Lorelei uses sorcery...

I'm not 100% sure they won't explain away Doc Strange's powers with the super science / sorcery angle as well... in the very recent Iron Man comics, Malekith gets of hold of one of the Mandarin rings, and totally overpowers it with his mind. When the ring's AI tries to resist, Malekith laughs and makes the following statement:

"Insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology"

In effect, Marvel seems to be doing a shift both in their TV/Movie MCU world and comics world that technology is a primitive form of magic (which means that ultimately, in the Marvel universe, magic beings are probably several power notches above the most advanced users of technology)


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I hope they stick with the kind of "Akeshic (?) Brotherhood" (A mage: the ascension reference) theme of the animated Dr. Strange movie. That was pretty epic.

Grand Lodge

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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I saw Cap2 Monday night. Loved it. Best Marvel movie yet, IMO, in terms of story and the action was pretty awesome too.

Spoiler:
I didn't see Hydra coming, although I knew there would be some internal war within SHIELD. I completely didn't see Dr. Zola coming, but it made perfect sense. I loved the "big brother is finished watching and ready to take action" theme of the movie.

I really need to see it again.

Dark Archive

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Dazylar wrote:

Spoiler:
Star Wars/Trek (with Star Wars crossed out, indicating that he had seen it)

Now, this might be my bias, but I thought he had crossed out Wars because he was told Trek was better, or just didn't like Space Opera. But as I said, I'm kinda biased... :-)

That's a fair assumption until you realize, oh wait Disney owns both Star Wars and most of none X Men and Spiderman Marvel now so of course he's seen it.

Resistance is futile.

:)


So, overall I really liked the movie, but did anyone else have an issue with the fact that all of the intelligence they had came from a bad guy deciding he would tell Captain A his evil plot just before he was killed?

plot spoiler:
If all they found was an old facility and the AI kept his mouth shut, they would have never guessed Hydra they would have been to late to do anything after that.

I hate when plot critical elements rely on intelligent characters being insanely dumb, like villains gloating.

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

Caineach wrote:

So, overall I really liked the movie, but did anyone else have an issue with the fact that all of the intelligence they had came from a bad guy deciding he would tell Captain A his evil plot just before he was killed? ** spoiler omitted **

I hate when plot critical elements rely on intelligent characters being insanely dumb, like villains gloating.

Spoiler:
Well, Zola did say he was stalling on purpose, and his evil plan was probably the only thing that Cap and Natasha would have been willing to sit and listen to at that point.

Although, for future reference, if you're stalling someone, you shouldn't tell them you're stalling, especially when they still have juuuust enough time to get to safety.


RainyDayNinja wrote:
Caineach wrote:

So, overall I really liked the movie, but did anyone else have an issue with the fact that all of the intelligence they had came from a bad guy deciding he would tell Captain A his evil plot just before he was killed? ** spoiler omitted **

I hate when plot critical elements rely on intelligent characters being insanely dumb, like villains gloating.

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
He could have easily stalled them with lies and not told them about the missile.

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Spoiler:
He may have been a little miffed about the missile. I'm also guessing that Zola didn't expect the Captain to be able to survive a direct missile strike, and he was enjoying taunting the Captain - the whole "you sacrificed yourself for nothing" bit. One of the things I got from that movie was that few people, including possibly Steve Rogers himself, understood how ridiculously tough Steve Rogers actually is.


Caineach wrote:

So, overall I really liked the movie, but did anyone else have an issue with the fact that all of the intelligence they had came from a bad guy deciding he would tell Captain A his evil plot just before he was killed?

I hate when plot critical elements rely on intelligent characters being insanely dumb, like villains gloating.

Uh, you may have already noticed this, but there are whole genres of movies that you are unsuited to viewing if this is really the case.

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Spoiler:

Plus, this is HYDRA, and Zola's one of the original crew. When bad guys mention doing something to avoid an action on the Evil Overlord list, it's probably on that list because HYDRA made that mistake first. There's not a bit of scenery around them that doesn't have their teeth marks on it.

So, yeah, Zola was gloating about how well his plan went. That's HYDRA. He probably should have just kept talking, but where would be the fun of killing your nemesis if he didn't see the shot coming?

Also, I'm pretty sure Zola's not dead. In order for the missile to be fired, Zola had to send out a message to let HYDRA know where Rogers & Romanov are at. If he can contact the outside world, then he can download his consciousness somewhere else.

Zola lives! Hail HYDRA!

The Exchange

Caineach wrote:

So, overall I really liked the movie, but did anyone else have an issue with the fact that all of the intelligence they had came from a bad guy deciding he would tell Captain A his evil plot just before he was killed? ** spoiler omitted **

I hate when plot critical elements rely on intelligent characters being insanely dumb, like villains gloating.

Spoiler:

Well, consider that Captain America is directly responsible for Zola's defeat in the previous round - and Zole had about 70 years to brood over that fact as a computer. Remember, he is a brilliant scientist, which isn't the same as a good operative. He could have easily lost his cool at the sight of his old nemesis.

But, yeah, that was annoying in the movie. I would have preferred it if the characters would have figured out the evil plot by themselves.


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spoiler:

Armin Zola also may have just not given a huge crap if he revealed Hydra's plans. I can't imagine getting mostly abandoned in an old military base is exactly the sort of thing that endears you to an organization.

Pierce seemed to believe that Zola was dead due to missile strike, so if Zola did download himself elsewhere, he obviously wasn't sharing that info with Shield-Hydra


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Spoiler:
@misroi: "...gloating about how well his plan went. That's HYDRA."

Hail HYDRA! Silence one tongue and two more start yapping!

Sovereign Court

Movie plot spoiler:
Plus, it was right in Zola's message: time is ripe for the enslavement of mankind. People don't give two s*$!s about losing their liberties in the name of fighting unknown or even fictitious threats. Zola said time for planning is over and it's HYDRA's coming out party. Plus Baron Strucker was pretty loose about following HYDRA protocol i.e. "let other HYDRA branches deal with this situation while we play with that nice Loki staff" So yeah, Zola has uploaded himself somewhere else, including on Black Widow's thumb drive, and the AGENTS OF SHIELD episode had this big HYDRA encrypted message being broadcasted over all of SHIELDs units and computers, which is either a carrier wave for Zola or a broadcast sent by Zola himself. Zola is the Clairvoyant as far as I'm concerned and the main AI behind HYDRA that holds all the HYDRA "heads" together.


Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

I just posted something similar in the Agents of SHIELD thread.


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Caineach wrote:
I hate when plot critical elements rely on intelligent characters being insanely dumb, like villains gloating.

The genius that makes you a master super-villain walks in lockstep with the ego that requires an opportunity to satisfy a gloating quotient. If you don't like that, you may want to consider frequenting another genre.


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"Since I decided to stop gloating to my enemies, all these pathetic heroes who come to stop me, I am finally being successful. I had never thought it. Budgets in my organizations is up 15.000%. I have strong influence in every arena of politics and finance. In every way but the formal, I own the world.

But oh... What is the point?"


Shadowborn wrote:
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
** spoiler omitted **
I just posted something similar in the Agents of SHIELD thread.

I'm avoiding that thread coz we're a bit behind in the UK - we'll catch up when you go on hiatus for a couple of weeks.

But yeah, seems logical!


Sissyl wrote:

"Since I decided to stop gloating to my enemies, all these pathetic heroes who come to stop me, I am finally being successful. I had never thought it. Budgets in my organizations is up 15.000%. I have strong influence in every arena of politics and finance. In every way but the formal, I own the world.

But oh... What is the point?"

Is it more important to be eminently successful, or happy doing what you do? :)


Without spoiling i loved the old movie reference given by one of the characters


Caineach wrote:
So, overall I really liked the movie, but did anyone else have an issue with the fact that all of the intelligence they had came from a bad guy deciding he would tell Captain A his evil plot just before he was killed?

It bothered me for a moment, but once I considered it, I realized it wasn't really a problem.

Spoiler:
Yes, Zola gloated and gave away the evil scheme. But think about it - even if he doesn't tell them anything, they've already unraveled quite a bit just by arriving there and finding him.

Once Cap recognizes who they are dealing with, he suddenly knows that:

1) A member of HYDRA survived; and
2) Was in some way connected with an early version of SHIELD.

Sure, it might not reveal the specifics of their plans for INSIGHT, but it would still be enough for them to figure out the general gist of what is going on, and that leads them to go after suspicous members of SHIELD, which leads them to Sitwell, who then confesses everything anyway.

So I think the real key was simply finding the facility itself - once they've uncovered that, and have confirmation that something is very wrong with the House of SHIELD, everything else flows naturally from there, regardless of how much Zola blabs to them.


Matthew Koelbl wrote:
Caineach wrote:
So, overall I really liked the movie, but did anyone else have an issue with the fact that all of the intelligence they had came from a bad guy deciding he would tell Captain A his evil plot just before he was killed?

It bothered me for a moment, but once I considered it, I realized it wasn't really a problem.

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
Yes, and that is precisely why I wish Zola didn't spill the beans. If he just gave a little bit about how he survived, and then Cap and Black Widow pieced together the plan now that they know its Hydra, it would have come across as them outsmarting the enemy instead of them being clueless and getting handed the info. They could have highlighted the heroes instead of using cheesy outdated gloating that makes the villain look dumb. This would have been especially useful for Black Widow, who is supposed to be a super spy and information gatherer.
Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Re: Caineach:

Superspy, yes. Information gatherer, yes. But she's not the "big picture" person. Natasha's job is to go out and acquire intel, usually as quietly as possible. Her job is not analysis. You usually don't have the same assets that acquire intel analyze it because they usually don't have both skill sets. Even then, once the analysis has been done, that analyst doesn't make any judgment calls on his work, he just passes it on through the channels, and top brass makes their decisions based on that. In this case, Director Fury. Fury is one of the only people in SHIELD that saw everything, and he was the only one to put together the HYDRA conspiracy.

In general, why would you expect a soldier and an assassin, two people who don't see the big picture, to put together a flaw hidden within SHIELD for as long as the organization has been around when the people who do hadn't seen it either?

Sovereign Court

Saw it. Mind got blown. Action was amazing. I noted that there were no slo-mo shots. I loved that. Story was good. Acting was great. Characters got developed.

Should have had more Coby Smulders.

Spoiler:
I loved the after the credits scene. Both of them. I think I squeed when I heard Strucker's name. And I wasn't the only one who did

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