I find it hard you can't recognize the Red Skull after Hugo Weaving pulled his face off in the first one.
The name meant basically nothing to me. See, I recall there was a stereotypical Nazi bad guy in the first movie, but not the "Roger Rabbit"-type villain you're describing that apparently I was supposed to remember, and don't.
As an aside, I also had no idea Agent Smith was in Captain America until you mentioned the actor's name -- I'll chalk that one up as a big kudo for Weaving. I mean, when Tom Cruise is in a movie, he always plays Tom Cruise, so there's no mystery there. IMDBing Weaving now tells me he was also the guy in the funny mask from "V for Vendetta." Cool!
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Like TOZ, I find it hard to believe you actually watched the film if you didn't remember the main antagonist.
And imagine how much more touching the scene in the nursing home would be if you actually remembered who the hell that old lady was (hint, her name was Peggy Carter).
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Right, that's what Kthulhu was telling me. My reply is that, for someone like me who didn't have any idea in advance what those things were, they didn't resonate well enough in the first movie to really be recognizable by name afterwards.I find it hard to believe you can't recognize the Red Skull after Hugo Weaving pulled his face off in the first one. :)
I find it hard to believe that he can't remember Hugo Weaving.
Like TOZ, I find it hard to believe you actually watched the film if you didn't remember the main antagonist.
The first film had the same problem for me that most blockbuster movies do -- the first half of them will seem really promising, but then the second half always devolves into a bunch of nonstop cartoon CGI action explosions and special effects that don't really give me enough to latch on to. I mostly just see those scenes as a bunch of flashing pixels -- kind of like how dogs supposedly can't see images on TV, or how cats supposedly have no "sweet" taste receptors.
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I find it hard to believe that he can't remember Hugo Weaving.
Like I said, I remember there was an Indiana Jones-type Nazi villain. That it didn't immediately "click" that Weaving was playing him, I see as a tribute to Weaving's acting.
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Do you know who Darth Vader is?
Awesome James Earl Jones Darth Vader or whiny b!$%~ prequel Darth Vader? In either case, the original Star Wars movie is a classic partly because of how instantly-recognizable the major characters became. No one had any pre-existing comic book knowledge to draw from, but the movie gave them all enough character development that there wasn't any confusion -- and it still had room for action scenes, too.
Captain America II did a good job with that stuff. I watched it once and I remember the title character, and also ScarJo and Sam Jackson and the Falcon guy and Robert Redford and even Gary Chandling in his cameo role. People had enough lines and screen time that they got pretty well fleshed out as characters. The CGI actions scenes didn't just merge together into one big cartoon soup, the way they do in a lot of movies.
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meh...If I didn't like a movie, and only saw it once years ago, I probably would be inclined to forget most of the movie.
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Star Wars ... but the movie gave them all enough character developmentI guess I missed the movie where that happened. I've only seen six Star Wars movies...I'm guessing all that character development happened in some seventh film I've never heard of?
That was the Christmas Special.
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That was the Christmas Special.Star Wars ... but the movie gave them all enough character developmentI guess I missed the movie where that happened. I've only seen six Star Wars movies...I'm guessing all that character development happened in some seventh film I've never heard of?
What Christmas Special? There is no Christmas Special.
THERE IS NO CHRISTMAS SPECIAL.
THERE IS NO CHRISTMAS SPECIAL!!!!!!!
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What Christmas Special? There is no Christmas Special.
THERE IS NO CHRISTMAS SPECIAL.
THERE IS NO CHRISTMAS SPECIAL!!!!!!!
Yeeeeeessssss. Let your hate flow through you!
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I guess I missed the movie where that happened. I've only seen six Star Wars movies...I'm guessing all that character development happened in some seventh film I've never heard of?
If you're telling me that, after only seeing CA-1, you instantly recognized and remembered Peggy Carter by name and Hayly Atwell as the acress (thanks, IMDB) for life -- with absolutely no foreknowledge of the character, and never having seen the actress before -- but that, after seeing "Star Wars," you immediately forgot who Han Solo was and couldn't recognize Harrison Ford afterward? Then your moviegoing experience varies wildly from mine.
Disclaimer: Then again, maybe it's a generational or technology thing -- I saw the original "Star Wars" in the theatre, but by the time "Captain America I" came around I was just streaming everything over Netflix.
Disclaimer2: I should also mention that I remember thinking that CA-1 was pretty enjoyable -- the first half far more so than the second half -- I just didn't find it to be particularly memorable.
No doubt. But let's not have a contest to decide, or thejeff will come smite us!
Except it's not like a registered sex offender list, it's like a license to own/carry a weapon.
If you have the power to shoot frickin' laser beams, it doesn't matter if you are going to commit a crime with it, it only matters that you CAN.
Just like you need a license to own a gun, and are registered as having purchased said weapon.
Except the difference is that someone can choose not to buy a gun, or even after they have it, they can choose to put it down.
Mutants don't get that choice. Hell, even some non-mutants don't get that choice. Ben Grimm didn't CHOOSE to look like a rock-monster.
And that's sad, it really is.
But if you woke up tomorrow morning with a nuclear device in your basement with no clue how it got there, I think you'd be the only person in the world who was sad when the government swooped in and picked you up for it.
I guess I missed the movie where that happened. I've only seen six Star Wars movies...I'm guessing all that character development happened in some seventh film I've never heard of?If you're telling me that, after only seeing CA-1, you instantly recognized and remembered Peggy Carter by name and Hayly Atwell as the acress (thanks, IMDB) for life -- with absolutely no foreknowledge of the character, and never having seen the actress before -- but that, after seeing "Star Wars," you immediately forgot who Han Solo was and couldn't recognize Harrison Ford afterward? Then your moviegoing experience varies wildly from mine.
Disclaimer: Then again, maybe it's a generational or technology thing -- I saw the original "Star Wars" in the theatre, but by the time "Captain America I" came around I was just streaming everything over Netflix.
Disclaimer2: I should also mention that I remember thinking that CA-1 was pretty enjoyable -- the first half far more so than the second half -- I just didn't find it to be particularly memorable.
I went into Cap 1 with basically no knowledge of his comics except that the Red Skull was an insanely goofy concept for a super villain, and I still remember the majority of the major characters in it. I think your memory is just deficient Kirth. =p
I think your memory is just deficient Kirth. =p
I won't try to seriously argue that that isn't a factor, but still...
My wife calls it "CGI Fugue." Any more than like 15 minutes of continuous CGI triggers some switch in my head and turns my brain off. It's like being epileptic and having someone flash a strobe light in your face. I seem to recall there was some kind of extended CGI train sequence... everything from that point on I totally lost, until Rogers wakes up in the present and I'm all like, "ooh, cool."
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And that's sad, it really is.
But if you woke up tomorrow morning with a nuclear device in your basement with no clue how it got there, I think you'd be the only person in the world who was sad when the government swooped in and picked you up for it.
Heck, if I woke up tomorrow morning with a nuclear device in my basement with no clue how it got there, I would be the first one to call the government!
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Heck, if I woke up tomorrow morning with a nuclear device in my basement with no clue how it got there, I would be the first one to call the government!And that's sad, it really is.
But if you woke up tomorrow morning with a nuclear device in your basement with no clue how it got there, I think you'd be the only person in the world who was sad when the government swooped in and picked you up for it.
So would I!
(Though at least partially, that would be because I don't currently have basement, so that'd be weird, too.)
Famke Janssen makes everything a better movie. Witness "Goldeneye," for example...
Famke Janssen makes everything a better movie? Are you sure you mean "everything", or just "every film she is in"? Or are you saying that her presence makes everything a better [b]experience[b]? I'd agree with you there, I think - buying milk would be fun if a hollywood star is paying...
First off, you do realize that Cap already had his own pre-Avengers movie, right?The difference is, I saw the first one and almost immediately forgot the entire thing. I'd be hard-pressed at this point to name any character in it other than Captain America, I can't think of a single spoken line from the film, and I'm drawing a total blank as to plot. My reaction to CA2 is a whole lot different from that.
Excellent opportunity to revisit it as a prequel! I too found the first to not be as good as this one, but it was a harder sell.
I do remember the Red Skull, the Second World War and Bucky being part of the plot though :-)
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Damnit. I finally saw "Winter Soldier" and was hoping to find a thread discussing it. Instead I get a bunch of stuff about variant comic book arcs and realism and "deconstruction of mutant morality" and so on. (Cries)
Just go back to page one, where someone has started off by posting a beautifully-written and well-reasoned review of the movie, and move on from there!
*ahem*
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First off, it's very, very hard for me to take a character called "Captain America" at all seriously -- but they somehow managed to rope me in despite that. I thought that alone is pretty impressive. The acting and the pacing I thought were both outstanding, much better than I've become accustomed to from summer blockbuster-type movies. And I liked how they gave pretty much everyone at least one scene to be awesome in.
In the movie itself, I absolutely loved the scene in the elevator: ** spoiler omitted **
I found the scene in the nursing home or whereaver, near the beginning, to be surprisingly touching.Finally, I have to admit, after seeing "Avengers" I was feeling pretty sorry for everyone who wasn't Thor, Iron Man, or the Hulk. I mean, you've got three apocalyptic gods or near-gods smiting everything around them, and then you've got a bunch of puny mortal nobodies trying to keep up with a bow and arrows or a shield. Lame. But giving Captain America his own movie, with him presented as a superhero, gave him a lot more credibility as a protagonist and also made Black Widow and Falcon seem like they weren't just extras.
Agree with pretty much all your points there Kirth. Your final comment about power levels is interesting. I noticed a significant power bump given to Cap in this film which he didn't really have in Avengers, nor in his first film (IIRC). It will be fun to see how that is integrated into Age of Ultron.
For reference, in the films, Thor & Hulk are the current MCU heavy-hitters. Below them (by quite a margin) is Iron Man (because everything he has, power-wise, is in a suit instead of him, and that's a vulnerability). Below Iron Man (slightly) is Cap, and that's only because he can't fly without some preparation. Then you have almost-normal humans like Black Widow and Hawkeye, who are pretty much at the bottom of the superhero pile.
Hope that helps... well, unless until someones argues with me at any rate :-)
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I have to agree with Kirth. Cap 1 was pretty non-memorable for me. I didn't remember Bucky's death scene or the mad scientist until the flashbacks in WS. In the first movie, my reaction to Bucky's death was a "oh no, main character's friend dies predictably to develop main character," and I promptly didn't give a shit at Cap's predictable reaction. I could tell you Red Skull was the villian, but honestly don't remember anything about his plot other than has tessaract and evil nazi, and the tessaract is only important because of its ties in with Avengers. I remember thinking the skin over Red Skull was done well, but only after it was mentioned a few posts ago. Cap 1 was an easily forgettable film.
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Personally I think the best special effect in Captain America was when he punched Schmidt and the Hugo Weaving face slipped slightly off giving the faint reveal of what was underneath. Big explody special effects can be cool, but it's the small ones that don't look special that I consider to be the pinnacle of the art.
I agree. I have recently been fond of saying that "Dawn of the Planet of the Apes" had the best special effects among movies this summer - they're so good , that 90% of the time you forget they're even there.
Kirth, I agree with you summation of the movie. It did feel like the CA we were getting here is much more powerful than his previous iterations, what with taking down helicopters with his shield and all that acrobatic fighting. Hulk would have still won the movie earlier by just going berserk in that elevator and smashing down the entire SHIELD organization, though.
Huh. Interesting.
AFAIC, Cap 1 was the best MCU movie, followed by Cap 2, then Avengers.
(And I'm not a Captain America fan, or really familiar with comics...)
Huh. Interesting.
AFAIC, Cap 1 was the best MCU movie, followed by Cap 2, then Avengers.
(And I'm not a Captain America fan, or really familiar with comics...)
Horses for courses. For me, it's Avengers, CA:TWS, T:TDW, Iron Man, Thor, Iron Man 3, CA:TFA, Incredible Hulk, Iron Man 2.
Haven't seen GOTG yet.
Throw in non-MCU Marvel films and it gets harder to rate them
Throw in Sony and Fox films and my head hurts
Throw in DC and my whole body hurts
Throw in films from outside the Big Two and I explode, so I won't do that
:-)
I'll never REALLY understand the mindset of 'non-comic fans'... It must be a completely different experience that... I'll never know.
I've been hip deep in comics for 25 years now, so I'm the guy in the corner who is loving every easter egg that they put there, I see them all at least twice in the theaters and can't wait till the next one.
For me, CA1 was AMAZING... They took a flawed concept, (while I AM a Captain America fan... even I'll admit that it's an uphill battle to take seriously in modern media,)and made it work beautifully. Out of all the characters shown so far... Cap had the most heart to it. The scrawny kid who just doesn't like bullies, given the power to do something about them.
Loved every moment of it.
CA2? I was amazed that it was able to live up to my expectations after part 1. I loved that whole movie too. They even made Falcon cool... Like, AMAZINGLY cool!
I suppose I can relate a BIT, what with all the obscure independent comics that get movies now days... Things like the Crow, Losers, Big hero 6 coming soon... I know/knew nothing about those before they were made into movies... but the trailers looked cool and I was excited for them just as they were... But I never went really went to a comic movie that I thought was a lame concept or expected it to need to 'sell me' before I'd remember it...
That's one I don't think I'll ever experience.
I'll never REALLY understand the mindset of 'non-comic fans'... It must be a completely different experience that... I'll never know.
It's not really that far out. I could never afford them as a kid, and have too much other stuff going on to get into them now. From Marvel Studio's viewpoint, if they're going to spend $220,000,000 on a movie and expect to break even, that movie needs to appeal to as broad a viewer base as possible -- not just comics fans. So they throw in a bunch of easter eggs to keep the fans happy, but the movie still has to work without them.
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Me either. The concept of a dude dressed as the US flag, flinging a shield at Nazis was ridiculous to me even as a child. He did get some coolness factor by getting Wolverine to follow his command.
The movie shown me that MS knows what they're doing. It was a decent piece of cinematography, with some good parts, some bad parts, lovely amounts of ham and scenery chewing by Hugo Weaving (too bad he detested the part, that is why they had him killed), and was all around very entertaining, for an Avengers interlude, which all of the MCU movies sans Iron Man were so to speak.
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Captain America may be a bit cheesy by today's standards, but his archetype is every bit as iconic - from the comic historian point of view - as Batman and Superman. Super patriot characters were quite common in the golden age of comics, and understandably so considering their development right before WWII.
I have read some of Cap's own comic, but most of my experience with him is in the Avengers and Invaders comics. And both Cap movies have been hitting the right tones with both comic fans and the public. I thought they covered his origin in the first movie in a way that did justice to his history and in a very accessible way for non-comic readers. The second movie really blew me away, though. But unlike others, I don't see a power creep at all - what I see is just the writers getting better at finding ways for him to shine on his own. We'll see if the Cap2 experience taught them enough to set him off well opposite the power-hitters in the Avengers 2.
. The second movie really blew me away, though. But unlike others, I don't see a power creep at all - what I see is just the writers getting better at finding ways for him to shine on his own. We'll see if the Cap2 experience taught them enough to set him off well opposite the power-hitters in the Avengers 2.
This.
Considering some of the stunts and such that he did in avengers and Cap 1, I was really excited to see 'more of the same...'
He fought with the shield MORE, he did MORE flips and jumps and such, but he already showed his 110% physical perfection in the first two movies...
Frankly, it was also hinted at with SUper-soldier Blonsky back in Incredible Hulk. The running faster, jumping higher, hitting harder...
It was part of what made me excited to see the first Cap movie :)
[Variety] "Robert Downey Jr. to join 'Captain America 3'":
Film to kick off the Civil War storyline from the comicbook miniseries
Robert Downey Jr. is on the verge of signing on to “Captain America 3,” with Tony Stark’s Iron Man set to play a key role in bringing the Civil War storyline from Marvel’s comicbooks to the bigscreen and trigger the start of a new phase of movies from Marvel Studios...
O_O
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hmmm..... not sure what to think of this. Civil War was a huge turd sandwich that divided the Marvel community in so many ways... there *HAS* to be lots of villains left to beat up without taking the last resort option THIS soon...
However, I can see why the actors would like this, as it increases their facetime during the movie... (good vs. good means you don't have to waste time establishing a new villain with separate scenes)
ive heard rumblings of spiderman crossing over so maybe ? Probably not
Yeah...part of me thinks it just might be too soon for a "civil war" arc
For starters...I thought Winter Soldier was one of the best Marvel MCU movies, while Iron Man 2 and 3 were the weakest. So really...would much rather see Captain America searching for Bucky and dealing with Hydra as the focus of a third film, rather than Iron Man fighting Cap.
Also...yeah are there really enough heroes yet to warrant a "registration act"? Even with the upcoming Netflix series, the Marvel universe is still rather bare when it comes to super-powered individuals.
Than again, in all likely hood Civil War will not even remotely be similar to what they will do in the movies, kind of how like Age of Ultron apparently doesn't have much of anything to do with the comic storyline.
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The way they've developed Tony Stark in the MCU, I really don't see him easily supporting the superhero registration act. He's been played up as highly distrusting of the government - would a switch in favor of registration be credible? I don't see that being likely yet.
Maybe they could spin Stark's openness about being Iron Man into heroes being open about their identities. But I think it's a stretch to see that turn into a pro-Feds Stark. They'd probably have to kill off Pepper like with the Civil War's Nitro-school detonation to accomplish it.