Captain America: The Winter Soldier


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Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber

Man this was good! :)

plot spoilers for Winter Soldier movie AND Agents of SHIELD TV show:
yeah..... that was AWESOME! now I understand why Coulson's unit from Agents of SHIELD can't reach Nick Fury, and now understand who the Clairvoyant is... wow! ARNIM ZOLA! soooooooooooooooo f$~%ing cool. I loved the cold war era magnetic tapes and dusty old giant screens! the little cam on top of big screen... wow! amazing


Just got back from seeing it. That was really good. Some great action sequences/inventive uses of Cap's shield, some well-timed humor, and some nice character moments.

I'm curious to see how there even continues to be an

Spoiler:
Agents of Shield TV show
after this.

Did anyone else catch the Easter Egg at the end?

Spoiler:
Nick Fury's tombstone was engraved "The path of the righteous man." -Ezekiel 25:17


There were a bunch of easter eggs in this, but yeah- that one stood out on my first viewing. I think the whole audience caught it, based on their laughter. The audience at my second viewing last night seemed to have missed it altogether though.

Interesting thing about the audience last night is that they were completely caught off-guard about the Winter Soldier. I was familiar with the character because I read comics (well, not so much these days), but there was an audible gasp in the audience last night when his identity was revealed, and they actually recognized him, which I was always kind of curious if the filmmakers had left enough clues for non-comics audiences to see. Guess they did.

As far as your first spoiler:

Spoiler:
I imagine the next several episodes will deal with the fallout of SHIELD's collapse, and then Team Coulson will probably try and rebuild the organization. At least, that would be my guess, based on the fact that the tv show crew knew that this was going to happen- both projects were developing at the same time- and the show was renewed for a second season months ago.


Speaking of Easter Eggs, did anyone catch the titles of the books on Cap's bookshelf? Even after two viewings, I only caught one or two titles. I'm really curious to know what he reads.


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thejeff wrote:
Well, without going so far as "It's always winter in Russia", Russia is certainly associated with winter. Especially so in military matters thanks to Napoleon's failed invasion and to lesser extent Hitler's.

And the disastrous invasion of Russia by Sweden in The Great Northern War a century before Napoleon.

Single best super-hero film I've ever seen, edging Avengers and easily surpassing the various acclaimed Nolan Batman films.

Evans has convinced me that he's one of the better actors of his generation. Selling Captain America is not easy ... and he does it effortlessly. Scarlett Johansson usually irritates me, but here she's more than serviceable as the Black Widow.

Mackie shines as the Falcon.

And The Winter Soldier, appropriately, gave me chills.


Oh, and another Easter Egg that I haven't seen mentioned anywhere I frequent (oddly) is the General Tarkin/Star Wars reference towards the end of the film.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber
Kalshane wrote:
Did anyone else catch the Easter Egg at the end? ** spoiler omitted **

I'm still not getting that last easter egg... can anyone explain that one to me? thanks

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber
Cthulhudrew wrote:
Oh, and another Easter Egg that I haven't seen mentioned anywhere I frequent (oddly) is the General Tarkin/Star Wars reference towards the end of the film.

huh... missed that one too... what is this?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Kalshane wrote:
Did anyone else catch the Easter Egg at the end? ** spoiler omitted **
I'm still not getting that last easter egg... can anyone explain that one to me? thanks

Spoiler:
Pulp Fiction reference.
Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber

plot spoilers for Winter Soldier movie AND Agents of SHIELD TV show::
So if Arnim Zola's algorithm / HYDRA is the Clairvoyant, I'm wondering if they're still going to do something with Brad Dourif... I hope. I'm also wondering who within HYDRA is running the centipede/extremis/Deathlok/Cybertek program... I mean Iron Man 3 clearly established AIM, and as far as I know they're not (necessarily) affiliated with HYDRA in the comics...


Just saw it tonight on Imax. I liked it better than the first one. Hard to pin down why, but just feel slike a tighter story.

Spoiler:
Its hokey I know, but i kind of miss the old Hydra of the 1980's comics with their green uniforms and helmets.

But then my brain starts getting confusedand mixing cobra and hydra leaders.

GI Joe capn america crossover? Has it been done?

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber
Black Dougal wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

NOOOOOOOOOOO! :)


Black Dougal wrote:
Just saw it tonight on Imax. I liked it better than the first one. Hard to pin down why, but just feel slike a tighter story. [snipped spoilers]

You might want to put some spoiler brackets around parts of your post.


I've had this crazy theory (which may not be TOO crazy) about the future for Marvel movies. I think it's a bit more credible now after this Cap movie.

The movie was FANTASTIC by the way. I almost feel bad for Marvel because this sets the highest bar to hit (so far) for the rest of the movies.

Crazy Theory and Some Cap spoilers:
I've been saying since Avengers 1 was announced that they are planning to do Civil War. I know, I know, that's ridiculously hard with Fox owning X-Men and Sony owning Spidey, but the studios are stupid if they pass up a chance to do a huge crossover.

In this Cap movie, we see Captain America realizing that big operations like SHIELD are just HYDRA by any other name...even when they are NOT infiltrated by HYDRA. Do I smell the beginnings of Steve Rogers bucking against orders? Since RDJ is only signed for a short time on his Marvel contract...it would make sense to end his reign as Iron Man when he calls for superhero registration. Now we've got an ever expanding roster of superhumans and supervillains. Thanos is in the background looking for the Gems. But that's down the road.

STRIKE in this movie really pointed to the beginnings of SWORD for me...especially after the events in the first Avengers and the Guardians of the Galaxy coming out in August this year.

The Chitauri are already introduced. Thanos. GotG. Cap becoming disillusioned with his simple ideals. Iron Man becoming a powerhouse in general. In fact, it is entirely possible that they get around the whole FF being owned by another company by just doing them as Skrull. Same with a lot of the others.

And then there's the Winter Soldier. C'Mon...this was a FANTASTIC rendition of the storyline and with the 2nd post credit sequence it just SCREAMS that Bucky is going to take the mantle of Cap in the future.

Plus...I love how they got around the term 'mutants' by using 'miracles'.

It's not just a great comic book movie...it's a great movie.

Regarding organizations:
AIM is totally coming. Zola's character is such a great throwback to the comics character. But I am totally seeing MODOK coming down the line!!!!!!


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Winter Soldier and Agents of Shield Spoilers:

First off...I seriously seriously doubt that Armin Zola is the Clairoyant. That would be horrible writing if if you have the big bad of your television series get taken out in passing in a movie that didn't feature any of the your major characters from the show.

Based on what happened last episode, I think Garrett is probably the Clairovoyant. Also, since agent Sitwell was taking off to board the ship from the beginning of The Winter Soldier, I suspect the rest of this season takes place before the events of Winter Soldier. Especially since I think Coulson would have gotten news of Fury's death, and it's not like Sitwell would board the ship, get held hostage by mercenaries, and get rescued by Captain America in a day. He could have very well been on that ship for a month, plenty of time for Agents of Shield to wrap up their season.

I am also not entirely convinced the Clairovoyant is related to Hydra. It could very well be a splinter group working for its own goals, or even against Hydra. It's not like there are a shortage of bad guy organizations in the Marvel Universe, and I suspect Hydra would have had other methods to figure out what happened to Coulson. Hell...Tahiti could very well have been a Hydra related facility.

Although...what the hell are they going to do with this show, which I heard has been renewed for a second season. rename it "Former Agents of Shield"?

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber

Movie plot spoiler:
Whether Cap wants it or not, SHIELD will survive... although perhaps a bit scaled back. Black Widow at the hearing made a good point that the world still needs people like SHIELD in the aftermath of the Battle of New York. If anything Coulson's team will survive, perhaps now working alongside or under some U.S. org, etc.

As for the Clairvoyant, it's definitely Zola. I'm like 89% sure. The Zola algorithm, the way if was described, is about exactly how the Clairvoyant has acted so far. ....BUT, there's that annoying Thomas Nash / Department H telepath / diviner guy from the last show... red herring planted by Zola methinks...


Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Cthulhudrew wrote:
Oh, and another Easter Egg that I haven't seen mentioned anywhere I frequent (oddly) is the General Tarkin/Star Wars reference towards the end of the film.
huh... missed that one too... what is this?

Near the very end of the film:

Spoiler:
When the helicarriers are about to go online, one of the HYDRA agents on board- who looks a bit like Peter Cushing- says "You may fire when ready."


Pretty much in agreement with MMCJawa here.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Cthulhudrew wrote:
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Cthulhudrew wrote:
Oh, and another Easter Egg that I haven't seen mentioned anywhere I frequent (oddly) is the General Tarkin/Star Wars reference towards the end of the film.
huh... missed that one too... what is this?

Near the very end of the film:

** spoiler omitted **

Yeah, I noticed, too, that the guy looked a bit like Tarkin. ^^


magnuskn wrote:
Cthulhudrew wrote:
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Cthulhudrew wrote:
Oh, and another Easter Egg that I haven't seen mentioned anywhere I frequent (oddly) is the General Tarkin/Star Wars reference towards the end of the film.
huh... missed that one too... what is this?

Near the very end of the film:

** spoiler omitted **

Yeah, I noticed, too, that the guy looked a bit like Tarkin. ^^

Funnily enough I hadn't noticed that, but I did notice that he is the same actor who plays the murderer in the first episode of Life, and reappears as an an antagonist in a second season episode.

Also liked seeing Abed from community as a tech.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

More Agent of Shield Discussion:
The very last Agents of Shield episode had Coulson realize that the clairovoyant wasn't actually psychic, just had only level 7 intelligence clearance.

Since Armin Zola itself appears to be above that level of intelligence (Captain America also has level seven, and it appears most of Shield didn't know that Zola was uploaded into any shield system), I don't think Zola is involved. Also I don't think Zola would have reached out to the...uh...corrupt business guy who has been working with Centipede. Seems like Zola would have access to enough Hydra facilities that such outside help wouldn't be necessary.

I am about 99.99% sure that Garrett is the clairovoyant. Which totally explains why he was so eager to bust into that TAHITI facility, or why his field agent brought up the idea of killing Nash to Ward


Just got back from seeing the movie. It was very good.

My only question is where was Hawkeye? He was not even mentioned.


As much as it would make sense, I'm not thinking The Clairvoyant was

Spoiler:
Zola. I'm with MMCJowa. It would be incredibly crappy to the viewers of the TV show to have the big bad they've been building up to all season be revealed and killed-off during a separate movie.


You're right, Kalshane.

Of course, it may be that the series simply serves at the films' pleasure.

Silver Crusade

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I would assume that if the Clairvoyant is that guess:

Spoiler:
Then Arnim Zola has back-ups.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I think that as to a certain bunker

Spoiler:
That it is unlikely Zola is dead. He clearly had access to the internet, and while I bet that was the first place his consciousness was mapped to, it's probably backed up on other servers. There'd be no reason for him not to do that.

Liberty's Edge

John Kretzer wrote:
Just got back from seeing the movie. It was very good.

Agreed. Awesome movie.

John Kretzer wrote:
My only question is where was Hawkeye? He was not even mentioned.

My assumption was working on some operation overseas. The whole thing went down too quick for him to hear about it and get back if he was on an operation.

It's a simple explanation and makes perfect sense.


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I for one thought it was a very well done movie. Chris Evans did a great job but I still wish that the Black Widow had a Russian accent.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Deadmanwalking wrote:
John Kretzer wrote:
Just got back from seeing the movie. It was very good.

Agreed. Awesome movie.

John Kretzer wrote:
My only question is where was Hawkeye? He was not even mentioned.

My assumption was working on some operation overseas. The whole thing went down too quick for him to hear about it and get back if he was on an operation.

It's a simple explanation and makes perfect sense.

Black Widow was wearing a necklace with an arrow decoration on it for most of the movie.


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Dialogues intelligently written...
Coherent plot not contradicting nor invalidating the previous movie(s) of the same franchise...
Action scenes not overdone nor totaling for 80% of the movie...
Impressive amount of destruction without leveling yet another city of the US...
Humour without ridicule comic relief character...

There may still be hope for Hollywood productions yet.

(but as a proud Quebecois, I'm sad to affirm that George St-Pierre hasn't exactly the most convincing acting skills...)


Elrawien Lantherion wrote:
I for one thought it was a very well done movie. Chris Evans did a great job but I still wish that the Black Widow had a Russian accent.

If I have learned anything from Michelle Pfiffer, it's that English with a Russian accent is super hot.

That said, however, it would be a pretty poor super spy who couldn't shake her native accent.

Shadow Lodge

Laurefindel wrote:
Impressive amount of destruction without leveling yet another city of the US...

I dunno, we may not have seen the full extent of the damage, but I can't imagine that three aircraft carriers falling out of the sky into a metropolitan area (in addition to all the previous damage they did), didn't seriously f!%! that city up.


John Kretzer wrote:

Just got back from seeing the movie. It was very good.

My only question is where was Hawkeye? He was not even mentioned.

I thought he was mentioned. As being off in Afghanistan or somewhere..?


Kthulhu wrote:
Laurefindel wrote:
Impressive amount of destruction without leveling yet another city of the US...
I dunno, we may not have seen the full extent of the damage, but I can't imagine that three aircraft carriers falling out of the sky into a metropolitan area (in addition to all the previous damage they did), didn't seriously f%~% that city up.

nah, they conveniently fell from 8000 ft right into their hangar. Now all they have to no is clean-up the probably very hazardous residual chemical and/or radioactivity that will otherwise pollute the whole east coast...

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber
Laurefindel wrote:
(but as a proud Quebecois, I'm sad to affirm that George St-Pierre hasn't exactly the most convincing acting skills...)

Oh give him a break. He's not supposed to be a Shakespearian actor. His fight scene was great, and I hope we see him again in the franchise!!

I'm glad he didn't try to pretend he could do a French accent from France, and that he stuck to the Quebecois pronunciation. That was awesome actually, as this movie was seen worldwide! :)

If you want to talk about debatable French skills, let's talk about Chris Evans... ;)


Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Laurefindel wrote:
(but as a proud Quebecois, I'm sad to affirm that George St-Pierre hasn't exactly the most convincing acting skills...)

Oh give him a break. He's not supposed to be a Shakespearian actor. His fight scene was great, and I hope we see him again in the franchise!!

I'm glad he didn't try to pretend he could do a French accent from France, and that he stuck to the Quebecois pronunciation. That was awesome actually, as this movie was seen worldwide! :)

If you want to talk about debatable French skills, let's talk about Chris Evans... ;)

His combat scene was indeed pretty awesome (more intense and acrobatic than any involving the winter soldier at any case); I'll give him that!

As form the quebec accent passing for a French-speaking Algerian, it leaves me rather cold. Somehow I wish they had made him a French Canadian bad guy...


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Heh, one thing that struck me about Black Widow... her background as a former KGB agent gets increasingly awkward, the longer this movie franchise is going to continue. It's something you could ignore away, but she did make direct references to being ex-KGB this time around.

"What, you were like seven years old when the KGB collapsed?"


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Batroc's quite a bit more honorable in the comics, too, as I recall. He and Captain America share a mutual respect and professional courtesy, unless I'm mistaken.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

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I liked the name dropping of

Spoiler:
Steven Strange. I hope that's a strong hint that Doctor Stranger will be coming out in 2016


@JoelF847

Spoiler:
Just saw an interview with Kevin Feige where he states they hope to reveal what movie is planned for the 2016 slot that Batman vs. Superman moved to. I imagine with that name drop in this one and previous interviews confirming that they are doing a Dr. Strange movie...this is likely the one that is coming in 2016. Post Avengers 2 which then starts Phase 3...which is when Dr. Strange is slated for :) I actually hope we see him post-credits though in the GotG, Avengers: Age of Ultron, or Ant Man films before his movie comes out.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber
Laurefindel wrote:
As form the quebec accent passing for a French-speaking Algerian, it leaves me rather cold. Somehow I wish they had made him a French Canadian bad guy...

That would have been ok too. I'm told the Foreign French Legion has people from many countries around the world, so if the movie did not make a big show of specifying he's from France, like the original one was, then I'm kind of ok with it... he's a minor character in the show, and it's a minor change. If we're ok with the new ethnicity of Heimdall and Johnny Storm and Hogun, etc etc etc I'm sure we can be ok with the new ethnicity of Batroc as well.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber
Jaelithe wrote:
Batroc's quite a bit more honorable in the comics, too, as I recall. He and Captain America share a mutual respect and professional courtesy, unless I'm mistaken.

Professional courtesy goes both ways, hence the request to drop the VIBRANIUM SHIELD that he kept smacking Batroc in the face with... ;)

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber
DM Pendin Fust wrote:

@JoelF847

** spoiler omitted **

Phase 3 = magic? :)

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

JoelF847 wrote:
I liked the name dropping of ** spoiler omitted **

I got chills when I heard that too.


Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
That would have been ok too. I'm told the Foreign French Legion has people from many countries around the world, so if the movie did not make a big show of specifying he's from France, like the original one was, then I'm kind of ok with it...

It does. I knew an Irishman who was a Legionnaire.

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