What evil character build would you like to take to 20?


Advice


I am joining an evil campaign that is currently level 8, but has full intentions of going all the way to level 20. It's 25 point buy with full use of any and all pathfinder books, and 3rd party material pending GM approval. The current party consists of:

Half-orc Barbarian
Tiefling Magus
Half-Drow Urban Ranger
Tiefling Wizard (Conjurer)

The party definitely needs a face and could definitely use some healing, but have assured me that it isn't a necessity. Given these circumstances, what build would you want to use?

The reason I ask is that I've been having a tough time deciding on what to play. I was set on Antipaladin, but after our first session the character just didn't pan out the way I wanted it to. I've considered an inquisitor, a dragon disciple, and an evil bard of some kind, but haven't found something that really appeals to me. I've also looked into awesome concepts like the assassin, ninja, and spellslinger, but all of which seem a bit under-powered for this farily optimized group.

I like the idea of playing a face so I'd be interested in seeing a charisma based build, or a skill monkey of some kind. It looks like melee damage and arcane spellcasting are already covered, so something that deviates/complements that would be a huge plus.

Any and all assistance would be great and much appreciated!


A necromancer!!! Juju oracles are AWESOME!!! They have high CHA too.


Healer is quite impossible, since evil isn't really allowed to heal. Antipaladin is out already.

I'd likely play a NECROMANCER of some kind, since it's impossible to take such a build in a non-evil Campaign. The Oracle is Charisma-based and can make a damn good Necromancer.

-ORACLE OF BONES is pretty good/JUJU ORACLE(if allowed) is even better IMO.
CLERIC still needs some Charisma for controlling Undead. If walking an army of Undead around isn't your thing you could also:

-DIRGE BARD: You have three fighter characters, who would profit a lot from your performances and buffs. You get to be a skill monkey and a face. If you go with Dirge Bard you could even start creating Undead soon and get some debuffs providing a more evil flavor.

-WITCH: Lots of flavour in an evil campaign, though no Charisma synergy.

-NINJA: Could actually quite work well, since you have enough guys to provide Flanking.

-RHAKSHASA BLOODLINE SORCERER: You are Charisma-based and get an extra +5 to Bluff multiple times per day.


I would like to see a red mantis assassin. Those guys can definitly use charisma (for casting) and get some cool toys. If you do take it, see if your GM will allow you to finesse sawtooth sabres; here's a statement by James Jacobs (the guy who originally had them included I believe) saying he thinks it wont have any effect on game balance, and I tend to agree with him:

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2m0n4?A-Red-Mantis-Dilemma#6

In any case, the red mantis assassin is quite weird/cool. You could even make a ninja/red mantis for extra charisma synergy. Personally I would go ranger 2/ninja 3/red mantis assassin 10.
Here's the link to the PrC:

Red mantis assassin

I'm going to try to make a build eventually (if only as an enemy in one of my games) but it's just too weird/cool not to use.


I like the idea of an evil oracle of Life. For reasons unknown a terrible and dementet person have the healing touch. The reason could be a cool thing to discover in game.
What kind of evil are you aming at? Undead Lord/antipaladin evil where every breth is blasfemy ? Or thiefs guild evil where evil is somthing you are to folks that stand in your way mainly?


From what I gathered from a rushed explanation during our first session, this is a mostly urban campaign at the moment. We are in Riddleport trying to break up an alliance between the cyphermages and a rival gang. We had a captive (who didn't survive the session) who gave us a few leads to a third gang that tried to set us up in an ambush. We are currently infiltrating their lair in a cavern underneath the city.

Edit: Clarification.

Sovereign Court

I'd recommend oracle. Doesn't even have to be life, oracles (unlike clerics), can choose whether to automatically learn cure or inflict spells. Just take cure spells and you'll be a decent healer for emergencies. Basically, stick with wands for out of combat healing, but in an emergency if someone drops you can drop a cure critical (or later, heal) to get them back up.

Because you get the cure spells automatically, you can focus yours spells known and feats on either being a primary spellcaster or a self-buff melee fighter and either way be pretty good to go in combat. You'll have the charisma for social rolls. Obviously the pure caster route will have a better charisma.

I'm doing this in a way of the wicked (evil) game, and having a great time with it. I went the pure caster route, dual cursed oracle of flames, giving a nice combination of party buffs (misfortune, prayer, air walk, etc.), with an occasional blasting/summoning when it's called for. Basically, he doesn't do any work, he just helps make his minions (er... I mean party members) do things better.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

in general:
it might not be super optimized but i always thought evil gnome antipaladin 2/synthesist X-2 would be a blast to play.

in that party:
from a party optimization standpoint, i'd probably make an evangelist cleric... you get the bard performance buffs plus all the typical cleric goodies. you could build as a summoner (to maximize bard group buff and have some battlefield control) or a reach cleric or a melee cleric (evil clerics usually benefit more from channel smite, so a guided hand build could be a good way to get strong melee and have decent DCs for Save or Suck spells). you could prepare some cure/remove status spells, but honestly i'd just rely on wands and scrolls (you're evil... if another PC dies cause you didn't memorize a big cure that means a bigger cut of the rewards for you; really, if you're gonna roleplay your alignment you should make the other PCs buy their own scrolls/wands and only use them on their behalf if you have nothing better to do, or are gaining some benefit from it).

alternatively, there's a number of fun/interesting ways you could build an oracle... a blackened flame oracle would have a good mix of healing and damage spells (oracles choice to know cure/inflict spells is not restricted by alignment), be highly Cha focused (which is great for face skills, which are important, especially for an evil party), which makes Save or Suck spells an option too, and could easily pick up an eldritch heritage bloodline (infernal fits well thematically and the 9th level power is exactly right for the concept; elemental fire's 1st power is kind of weak but could help with resource management and its 9th level power is awesome from an optimization standpoint).


Neutral Evil Urban Druid with the Charm domain. Focus on mental manipulation of people and animals.

The character's philosophy would be heavily inspired by Social Darwinism - people are basically animals no matter what they try to pretend, and only the strong will take control and survive.

Can work well as a party face thanks to lots of enchantment spells coupled with Alter Self at will as early as 6th level.


Urban ranger dominates vs humans. Litterly a killing machine especially if you go ranged.


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Evil cleric all the way....converting the mindless masses to devil worship for a place of rank in the hells.

Scarab Sages

Hello,

I'm the mentioned Wizard in the party, and just wanted to describe the party a bit better.

Barbarian is following the superstitious, witch hunter and pounce route.
Magus is black bladed, and does what you think a magus does.
Urban Ranger is an Archer.
I myself took conjuration, though I rarely summon creatures. Prefer the battlefield control of clouds, pits, and webs. Also as a side note, I was nice enough to take Craft Wondrous and Arms/Armor.

We all also agreed to have party loyalty at the table, so no need to worry about your own group killing you in your sleep.


An evil cleric or oracle would be a great fit, but...

What about a beastmorph/vivisectionist alchemist?

Jack the Ripper one moment, Mr. Hyde the next. Use your alchemical abilities to do nefarious research along with the wizard and to keep your party stocked with magical healing and augmenting draughts.


Lawful Evil Half-elf oracle of lore.

Charisma to AC and CMD though mystery.
Charisma to Iniative through first level feat.
Charisma to HP (once you become a lich)
Take the archetype Enlightend Philosopher (requires lawful not good) for Charisma to saves at 20.

Take Eldritch Heritage.
At 15 take Spell perfection for Paragon Surge so you can quicken it for free.

Cast any Clerical/Sorceror/wizard spell in thje game depending on what the situation calls for.

I also recommend the magical Lineage for Blasphemy as a trait.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Lamontius wrote:
What about a beastmorph/vivisectionist alchemist?

i like that a lot... making other people use their own actions for healing/buffs instead of you 'wasting' yours on them is perfect for an 'evil healer'! you might run into some issues with status removal and out of combat healing (since you need UMD for wands/scrolls as an alchemist)... there are two feats you could take- Pragmatic Activator makes UMD an Int skill (and its already a class skill for alch), and Student of Philosophy makes most Diplomacy and Bluff checks Int based if you want to handle some face stuff (though would be a class skill).

Silver Crusade

I'll +1 the Beastmorph/Vivisectionist idea, I'm playing one right now who just hit 15th level. With conjurations for flanking, or greater invisibility, the character gets full attack-sneak attacks on pounce-charge. Very brutal, has a very high dexterity and therefore great AC (Agile amulet of mighty fists FTW!)...

That, and he has Cure Light Wounds to Cure Critical Wounds as extracts, with the Infuse Other discovery, he can heal, and at 15th, gets Regeneration, at 16th Heal. Secondary healer, if need be, primary combatant, skilled rogue-ish scout, etc... Multiple things covered in a single character. UMD being a class skill does help too.

A thing to ask your GM, is on 'custom' items, such as using the collaborative crafting rules to see if, working with a 7th+ level Summoner, you could make a Potion of Greater Invisibility. Use a Alchemical Allocation (2nd level extract) and you can have a brutal combo of full attacking for a full round of sneak attacks...


I agree with everyone saying Oracle, but I'd go Occult over any other mystery. Revelations aren't great (definitely go dual-cursed), and you won't be able to pull necromancy shenanigans quite like Juju could, but if you make it to the capstone, you ascend to ghostdom and become a ridiculous force of unstoppable destruction. It's the only capstone I'd be willing to build an entire character towards, because it's just so damn flavorful and awesome.


nate lange wrote:
Lamontius wrote:
What about a beastmorph/vivisectionist alchemist?
i like that a lot... making other people use their own actions for healing/buffs instead of you 'wasting' yours on them is perfect for an 'evil healer'! you might run into some issues with status removal and out of combat healing (since you need UMD for wands/scrolls as an alchemist)... there are two feats you could take- Pragmatic Activator makes UMD an Int skill (and its already a class skill for alch), and Student of Philosophy makes most Diplomacy and Bluff checks Int based if you want to handle some face stuff (though would be a class skill).

Bruising Intellect, a trait that allows you to use your INT bonus for Intimidate checks rather than CHA, might also be a nice thematic choice for a more sinister or scary character


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Words of Power Oracle.


Evil aasimar cleric. Keep reading...

The only thin I could add is a evil cleric who worships a neutral god so u could take versatile channeling. U could heal, punish, and support/smash real easy while being a full caster. Since ur starting at level 8 u would have all ur feats that u would need. Aasimar is usually the best and its great roleplay too for an evil character.

However, I agree oracle is best for the job since u don't have so many hoops to jump through. Aasimar is still good for that too just might need a different variant..


Well I would normally not recomend this, but since going up to 20, it is viable. Still with starting at 8 a slight shenigan is involved. Anyways pretty ridicolous necromancer with loads of minions.

Use the spell-like ability of race of your choice to meet prequisites for Mystic theurge early.

Take Gravewalker Witch and Juju Oracle.

So depending on race you choose, A) Witch 1/Oracle 4/ MT 3 or B) Witch 3/Oracle 1/ MT 4.

Take Spirit Vessels(Su), Varisian/Mages Tattoo(necromancy), Spell specilization (Animate dead) and Blood money. Those are the important things.

A) Sadly you need to wait a level to get Animate dead from witch. But still 66HD of max hitpoint undead is nothing to sneeze at.(and next level it will be 114) Asking the Wizard to cast haste so you can get fast zombies is very good.

B) Same deal here just that it is the oracle that doesn't have the spell yet untill next level. This is preferable since you progress faster in MT.

One downside of this build is that once you hit MT 10, past that progress will slow down. Still you do get 9th level spells from one class and 6th level on the other so it is pretty good. Spell synthesis is pretty nasty thing to have even if it is just 1/day.

Since your Wizard focuses on battlefield control, your job will be to use your minions to block any gaps the spells leave and assist the barbarian on melee front. Not much of a skill moneky but INT is one of your major stats and oracle levels give 4+INT


Bigger Club wrote:

Take Gravewalker Witch and Juju Oracle.

...

A) Sadly you need to wait a level to get Animate dead from witch.

You realize the witch side of the theurge will never get animate dead? Gravewalker's spells are replacing patron spells, and thus are granted based on class level, not character level.


Finitevus, NE tiefling (Daemon-spawn/Grimspawn) wizard, attempting to amass enough power and resources to build an army of adamantine golems to wipe out Golarion.


Adding my voice to the Dirge Bard suggestion.

If I was going evil, I wouldn't be able to resist a mix of enchantment and necromancy focus, to get my fingers wriggling in people's brains whether still living or after death. Dirge Bards just seem to combine them quite nicely. They have the team support, the face powers, the skill points, temporary undead minions without the annoyance of them being around the whole time, the out of combat healing option if you really insist, you can combine with sound striker for a bit of a banshee feel, a light spattering of bonus necromancy spells is always good and happy, bonuses to their fear effects, yeah. My perfect class.


I've always wanted to play some kind of caster at high level (probably a sorcerer).

I agree with the Red Mantis Assassin PrC too, though! I just made one for Way of the Wicked (well, starting as a fighter/rogue, but she will be soon!) because the flavor is just so cool! It takes a little work to explain why they're out and about though.


Paulicus wrote:

I've always wanted to play some kind of caster at high level (probably a sorcerer).

I agree with the Red Mantis Assassin PrC too, though! I just made one for Way of the Wicked (well, starting as a fighter/rogue, but she will be soon!) because the flavor is just so cool! It takes a little work to explain why they're out and about though.

I'd be interested seeing your build paulicas, i'm working on a version of this myself.


To all of the oracle suggestions: Dual-cursed is out since Misfortune has been banned from the table. I'm still trying to narrow it down. Three builds I am looking at now:

Reworking my antipaladin and going the mounted combat route. Ideally I'd want something super awesome and evil (a nightmare or say a flippin' dragon), but for now I'd settle for a fienish horse or... something. I'm just really into the LE mounted knight concept. Maybe I should look into cavalier instead, haha.

Secondly, is williamoak's Red Mantis concept. I'm waiting to hear back from my GM on whether or not finesse will be houseruled as legal, otherwise I don't see how that PrC would ever work because of the sheer MADness.

My third character idea is a straight up alchemist bomber. I think the beastmorph/vivisectionist role is already covered by our barbarian and I don't want to step on any toes. I want to take the Student of Philosophy trait and/or the Buising Intellect trait allowing me to retain my role as the party face, which I quite enjoy.


Master of the Dark Triad wrote:
A necromancer!!! Juju oracles are AWESOME!!! They have high CHA too.

^That. I'm playing one in Way of the Wicked right now and it's hella fun. Unfortunately many of my minions are currently dead (RIP George and Trithraxus, you'll always live on in my heart ;_;).

Have a sample.

My undead have been doing pretty darn well so far. They don't carry the team (...mostly, Zombie Trithraxus was a freakin' badass), but they do get in their fair share of kills,put anothe rbody on teh field, force the enemy to split their attention and, most importantly, allow me to have my cake and eat it too by playing a spellcaster who also gets to roll attack rolls and smack things.

Dark Archive

Dhamphir Undead Lord

They get a +1 favored bonus to level when dealing with undead. At level 20 your considered a level 40.


Sixteenbiticon wrote:

My third character idea is a straight up alchemist bomber. I think the beastmorph/vivisectionist role is already covered by our barbarian and I don't want to step on any toes. I want to take the Student of Philosophy trait and/or the Buising Intellect trait allowing me to retain my role as the party face, which I quite enjoy.

Whether buffing Int or Cha, consider the Cognatogen discovery to boost your skill-monkey side if you go this route.


Rynjin wrote:
Master of the Dark Triad wrote:
A necromancer!!! Juju oracles are AWESOME!!! They have high CHA too.

^That. I'm playing one in Way of the Wicked right now and it's hella fun. Unfortunately many of my minions are currently dead (RIP George and Trithraxus, you'll always live on in my heart ;_;).

Have a sample.

My undead have been doing pretty darn well so far. They don't carry the team (...mostly, Zombie Trithraxus was a freakin' badass), but they do get in their fair share of kills,put anothe rbody on teh field, force the enemy to split their attention and, most importantly, allow me to have my cake and eat it too by playing a spellcaster who also gets to roll attack rolls and smack things.

I really love the idea of a necromancer type build, it was my original intent when I chose the antipaladin, but I'm just afraid I will get overwhelmed trying to manage all of my minions.

Dark Archive

As far as minions are concerned, worry yourself with higher hitdice minions, less of a problem that way.


Also does anyone have a fleshed out Dirge Bard with or without Sound Striker? I've never played a bard and am interested in trying one, but I wouldn't have a clue how to build one effectively. I've looked over the forums, and haven't found too much. Where's the bard love?


When it comes to playing evil. I prefer to do 3 things.

1. Do not broadcast that you are evil. Ex. An evil wizard looks like most wizards unless he specializes in Necromancy. However, the Anti-Paladin is kind of obvious and is going to have major issues as soon as he tries to enter a city.

Rule 1: Be subtle.

2. Keep your goals reasonable. If you are level 3 do not plan to take out the high priest of the biggest temple in the country in the next week. Build slowly, plan well, and win before they know they are in trouble.

Rule 2: Do not over estimate yourself.

3. If you are evil, there are two types of people you will be dealing with. Those who you have the secret of being evil kept from them, or those who know you are evil. You can not trust either of those types.

Rule 3: Don't trust anyone.

Follow my 3 simple rules any you could have a long lasting evil character.


Natch wrote:
Bigger Club wrote:

Take Gravewalker Witch and Juju Oracle.

...

A) Sadly you need to wait a level to get Animate dead from witch.

You realize the witch side of the theurge will never get animate dead? Gravewalker's spells are replacing patron spells, and thus are granted based on class level, not character level.

I might be mistaken, but those spells are considered to be on your spell list so for example you could use a scroll to use a spell on the list before you get it from class abilities. You would need to learn it the old fashioned way but still. Granted I am not a 100% on this.


Master Summoner...Imagine the gold and favours you could rake in summoning Succubi to entertain bored and decadent nobility! (Just in case you didn't realize HOW evil and depraved a campaign can get...)

...seriously, though. If you are willing to do the "homework" (that is, making sure you have stats for all your summoned creatures BEFORE YOU SIT DOWN TO THE GAMING TABLE), a Master Summoner can not only carry an evil party through almost anything, they stand a pretty reasonable chance of cowing the rest of the party into submission through simple fear. Who wants to oppose that guy who seems to have the whole of Hell (or the Abyss, take your pick) at his beck and call?


I would have suggested a tough oracle of bone. Clerics and oracles are probably better necromancers than wizards, you can heal spontaneously as long as you're willing to devote slots to that (better, use a Wand of Cure Light Wounds) and the party doesn't have a tank.

Of course, a swarm of zombies makes a good "tank" anyway. Talk to your DM about mobs of zombies to avoid slowing down play.


Taason the Black wrote:
Urban ranger dominates vs humans. Litterly a killing machine especially if you go ranged.

Been fiddling around with a Ranger turned Lich build (as an NPC foe). Be very interesting to take it to 20th (then put the template on) as a way to really learn how to run and equip the character.


Sixteenbiticon wrote:
Also does anyone have a fleshed out Dirge Bard with or without Sound Striker? I've never played a bard and am interested in trying one, but I wouldn't have a clue how to build one effectively. I've looked over the forums, and haven't found too much. Where's the bard love?

You can build many different versions of Bard. Check if Soundstriker allows you to use Weird words on the same target. If yes you can rock

You could just make an Archer and pick the obvious Archery feats.
You coulde go for Skirmishing and take high Str and a Two-Handed-Weapon via being Half-Orc or Half Elf with Ancient Arms.
You could make a Dazzling Display/Helpful Halfling whip wielding full support Bard.

Good Feats are Arcane Strike, Discordant Voice and Lingering Performance.

Spellsong can really help you troll NPCs in an Urban Setting.


I would consider either a Tiefling Fiendish Vessel going to Holy Vindicator for a nice heal/harm channel ability or a Crossblooded Orc/Red Dragon Tatooed Sorcerer 1/Oracle of Flame 9/Diabolist 10 for a fun blaster character that can party face with the best of them.


A red mantis assasin one of my players is using now for a WotW campaign, created mainly by me (with inspiration from the boards of course)

Half Elf with Ancestral Arms

STR 18 (+1 at 12th and 16th lvls)
DEX 15 (+1 at 4th, 8th and 20th lvls)
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 8
CHA 14

Traits: Magical Knack, Optimistic Gambler

1 Fighter Exotic Weapon Proficiency (sawtooth sabre), Weapon Focus (sawtooth sabre), TWF
2 Fighter Iron Will
3 Fighter Power Attack
4 Ninja
5 Ninja Alertness, Trick: Vanishing Trick
6 Red Mantis
7 Red Mantis Weapon Specialization (sawtooth sabre), Cornugon Smash
8 Red Mantis
9 Red Mantis ITWF
10 Red Mantis
11 Red Mantis Greater Weapon Focus (sawtooth sabre), Skill Focus: Survival
12 Red Mantis
13 Red Mantis Greater Weapon Specialization (sawtooth sabre), Eldrich Heritage: Touch of Rage
14 Red Mantis
15 Red Mantis Improved Eldrich Heritage (Strengh of the Beast)
16 Fighter retrain Iron Will for Double Slice, Two-Weapon Rend
17 Fighter Eldrich Heritage (Strenght of Giants)
18 Fighter Intimidating Prowess
19 Fighter Dazzling Display
20 Fighter Shatter Defences


There is also the classic Drow Priestess completing her goals:

1) Complete a Mythic ritual to blot out the sun.
2) Destroy the faery elves.
3) ????????????????
4) Profit

Because what good is an evil plot if people can't profit?


Back in the day with 3.5 I played an LE Enchanter from level 1 all the way up to level 23. I used Suggestion a lot. When I wasn't using it to manipulate enemies I was probably using it to get the rest of the party to to stop annoying me with their petty little problems, or steal the treasure that I wanted. Notable evil accomplishments? Kidnapped the soul of a recently slain enemy from the after life, and tortured him for information. Used the spell Mind Rape, from the Book of Vile Darkness, to steal all of the knowledge from the Lord of the First Layer of Hell, and leave his mind an empty husk. Kept a few good party members under the impression that what we were doing was good and just and not just advancing my own agenda.

It was one of the most satisfying experiences I've ever had in gaming.

Let the conjurer pick up Infernal Healing, you be the face/master manipulator and run the show.


Wizard 10(conjuration - infernal binder subschool)/darkfire adept 10.

infernal binder is from: inner sea primer, darkfire adept is from paths of prestige.


White Mosaic Mage.

You get all Necromancy and all Conjuration (Healing) spells, regardless of list. And some other lovely additions. Conjuration (Creation), Divination with no subschool, Enchantment (Charm) and Evocation (Cold). Some fun special abilties, by 12th level you can be immune to Poison, Disease, Curses and Paralysis. And your intelligence added to all saves.

And you are constantly garbed in pure white. You can even get angel wings! And still be a completely evil basticht. You just won't look it.


Half orc Inquisitor of Rovagug with the rage domain.
The amount of damage you can dish out is insane...
The intimidate bonus is silly...
You can bully people into getting your way.
And you are a true Swiss army knife. There is almost never a situation you can't adapt to.

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