Actually we both did the math wrong.
To hit would be
That is 31.
Congratulations, you can not even hit on your first attack without bonuses while rolling a 10 against on level enemies.
I specifically mentioned how unimpressive Perfected Form is.
You get it at level 19.
So max out your attack stat
I would gladly just take legendary proficiency instead
Exactly, it is fair to everyone.
My issues with monk are thus:
1. No proficiency in anything, not even a dagger or a quarterstaff, and thus no ranged option at all really. They are not even proficient with weapons with the trait "monk". Having a feat required just to use a dagger or a staff is insulting and an obvious feat tax.
2. The only way for them to have even close to competitive AC is if they get magical Bracers of Armor... what about a gm who does not like magic items all that much, or just does not feel like you should get them at the appropriate level. No class should require the use of level appropriate gear just to be functional.
3. Perfected Form does nothing. Essentially their capstone gives you nothing.
Why do all the answers seem to make things more complicated than they need to be?
Just make wands have charges that are much lower than they used to be.
Wands/staves/ect. have a number of charges = to the casting mod of the person that made it.
If you want to limit it more, add a bolstering effect to the use of consumable items that does not apply to the use of the spell.
ex. You can be healed by the heal spell all day assuming people can cast it, but you can only be healed by a consumable once.
No more resonance.
If you REALLY want to keep resonance, make it based on CON, a stat that nobody will be leaving at 8, but also nobody can start with an 18.
Really though, of all the issues that PF2 has, this is the very least of my worries.
Mark Seifter wrote:
Why not just go back to a class skills type of format.
You start with X number of skill trainings that you can pick from your class skills, skills from intelligence bonus can be any skill, making them a class skill for you.
Everyone can eventually become legendary in any skill.
Seems like everyone wins.
The Only Sheet wrote:
It is not in the rules because that is not what it says, anywhere.
Your attack roll with spells is just like making a normal ranged or melee attack, or a range or melee touch attack.
Melee = 1d20 + level + Training in your spell abilities + Strength or Dexterity mod, because it says that it is finesse, + item.
Ranged is the same but with just the option of Dex.
That is the issue though, it is not possible to get your attack bonus that high.
At level 19 you should have an attack bonus of 31 if you maxed out all you can and have level appropriate handwraps/weapon.
However, average monster AC is like 43, So you would have to catch them flat footed, or get a party buff just for your own class ablity to work, and that is ONLY on the first attack each round.
That is a very crappy level 19 ability.
I would happily just take legendary in unarmed instead. I will take my +5% to hit all the time over 1 a round change a miss to hit, if I have help.
One more design issue:
Perfected Form, does almost nothing.
Being able to turn anything under a 10 into a 10 does not mean much when you would never hit on a 10 anyway, without being able to consider them flatfooted or some other bonus, and that is only on the first attack. It is completely pointless on anything but the first attack.
Just give them legendary in unarmed and a small bonus, like your unarmed strikes multiple attack penalty is only -3, -6 if agile or -4, -8 if not.
Constitution based because it is a stat nobody will have an 18, bit also nobody should have an 8. your body has to be tough enough to take the magical strain.
Having it as a stat some classes use as primary but a dump for others is imbalanced.
I have a few issues here:
1. Why are rogues not trained with the star knife or the main gauche?
2. if you are playing a class that starts trained and gets expert or better later, there is no point in taking a weapon training feat, because when you go up to expert it only ups ones from your class.
3. Why bother making weapon or armor training feats as general feats when everyone can just take fighter multiclass and get them all. I know what people will say, you have to have a 16 str or dex. however how many people actually have a character with nothing over 16 in those? So far I have seen none.
4. Reload 1 and reload 0 weapons. Why would anyone use a reload 1 crossbow that does not get propulsive when they can use a bow they reloads free and adds half a stat. My fix would be give crossbows dex to damage and bows keep propulsive.
Give them a feat at first level the gives them the ability to change crossbows to reload 0 weapons and up a die size as an option.
Guns are all reload 1, and target touch ac,
Do not take it the fighter direction of feat trees as weapon type based but take them style based.
Quick shooting multi-shot path, feats to shoot extra shots on fewer actions and level 12 up make Reload 1 firearms reload 0.
Sniper shooting stance, removes range penalties, aim as one action to roll perception succeed for consider them flat footed crit succeed to also get + 3 to hit.
Well rounded style that alchemies special ammo and to do special effect but no specific aim or damage bonuses
the nerve-eater of Zur-en-Aarh wrote:
Maybe it is just the people I tended to game with, but nobody put points in social skills or charisma unless it was a casting stat because the answer was always “why should I put points in diplomacy, if we are just going to talk it out anyway."
I have never understood this issue.
Role-playing can be done in any system, from almost no rules to super crunchy.
Numbers and skills and stats help define that.
It is why all characters start with a concept.
Numbers and crunch are up to the system, role-play is up to the player.
The issue is whether role-play will change the dice.
If I am playing a big dumb lug but I come up with a genius plan on how to get in to a high tech base, is that ok?
If the character is a super genius hacker but the player needs help to use google, how does it play out?
Just clearing up some misconceptions here.
1. All cantrips scale with your class level automatically. They do not become spells you have to cast of X level. If you are level 5 and cast Ray of Frost, it does its level 5 damage, still as a cantrip.
2. Most ranged weapons do not add a stat at all, and if they do they add only half strength. So if a noncaster wants ranged damage they have to have Dex to hit and str of at least 14 just to get a +1 damage.
3. Volley traits on longbows and composite longbows make them almost unusable, so people tend to carry a short bow, which does a D6.
4. Almost all cantrips add the casters stat to the damage starting at level 3 or 5. No non-caster ever gets that.
5. Casters make their spell attacks using their primary casting stat and add the same stat to damage. Also in this edition EVERY class will have high dex unless they are plate wearers anyway.
6. Spellduelist wands and Gloves, give + to hit to spell attacks, which progress slowly but are still only going to be about a +1 behind a normal weapon.
7. Most cantrips are ranged touch attacks, which are always lower than the normal AC.
EX. Level 5: Lets say they are fighting a Troll.
+1 Composite Shortbow with 14 strength: + 12 to hit for 2d6 + 1 Damage (8 damage) (deadly D8)
Vs AC of 18 so hit rolling a 6-15, crit rolling 16-20
Average: 9 Damage
Lets say they shoot twice:
Fighter 2 shots: Roughly 14 damage. unless they went into PBS stance and the enemy has no bonuses.
Ray of Frost: +9 to hit for 2D8 + 4 (13 damage)
Average for the spell: 11
SO the wizard can do roughly 80% of the fighter damage for much less effort.
The fighter can not also use a shield because of his bow, but the wizard can still cast the cantrip shield if they have to.
Heck if they want the wizard could just fire a bow as well, and do even better. with a ROF/Bow shot.
Looks very fair to me.
Honestly, martials need something more to do.
Dueling Cape Deed is my backup plan if I can not find a way to use a scabbard as a buckler.
Essentially I am trying to build Killer Number 2, from the movie Bunraku if you have seen it.
If not, you should check it out, fun movie.
So my character plan is this.
I know there is a feat that let's you use a cape or sash as a buckler, which I like.
However, I would really like it if he could somehow use his scabbard as a buckler.
Any feat, trait, magic item that can pull that off?
Interestingly in 5th edition my Bard took magical lineage just to get shillelagh and goodberry, the GM let me cast it on my lute.
I used a wide based lute as one of my main instruments, I called it my a Fat Lute of Phat Loot.
As for the hammer, name it what my barbarian named his, Lockpick.
I love the movie Bunraku, I am using it as the basis for the villain setup in my campaign.
One huge city, ruled over by the master villain and his 10 killers.
Killer number 2 is a great villain with his fighting style and attitude.
So here are some criteria.
Must be human, or have a racial trait to look human.
Fights with the feat Combat Cloak so he has a scarf wrapped around his offhand as a buckler.
Uses a rapier as a main weapon, but fights with his sword in the sheath until he has to be serious.
I am thinking swashbuckler.
Stats are 18, 16, 14, 14, 12, 10
It would be nice if he did not have to wear armor but that is not 100% required.
Dragonchess Player wrote:
In the games we play in, that is not going to make much difference.
We generally fight things of +4 CR or triple the number of things we should and our gm more than doubles their hp.
Ex. In the last campaign we were level 12, the fight before the boss consisted of a CR 16 shadow dragon with 2500 hp, 4 level 13 necromancers with 300 hp each, and 300 CR 2 skeletons.
The fight lasted 5 rounds, 1 of those rounds was nothing but the wizard casting a spell and the rest of us closing.
Ok let's say I have a blink back belt and have a BAB of 11, I have TWF and ITWF, and GTWF.
I carry one thrown weapon in my Blink back belt, maybe a dagger or javelin.
Can I quick draw and throw the weapon 3 times, and only use my main hand or can I quick draw the dagger with my main hand 3 times, and then because the dagger is still a weapon on my belt can I quick draw it again with my off hand for 6 attacks.
Is their any rule, in writing, in the book, that says I have to throw a different weapon?
True, the divine classes are well rounded that way.
A group of 5 inquisitors would be interesting and a nightmare for the npcs.
If I go alchemists I am thinking.
Ragebred feral mutagen vivisectionist
The only issue with alchemists is lacking of good ability to take a hit.
I am toying with the idea of running a game with 5 players from level 1 to 20, Hoeven all 5 players will be of the same class.
The question is, which classes and archtypes work the best.
I can easily see a group of 5 clerics working as a group.
Same with 5 oracles, druids, bards, and vigilantes.
I am leaning toward alchemists, but am open to ideas for other classes.
Stats are 18, 16, 14, 14, 12, 10.
Any ideas on class and archtype combinations?
I accidentally gave one of my players 20000 gold at level 2 what can he buy in the small village of torch?
Plenipotentiary Potentate of the Penance Penitentiary
Even better mix up your beuracratic titles from different regions, ex have a "senior vice shogun of the viscount assistant to the duke."
Have one guy that they just call Kevin. That is his name, job title, and the only thing on his business card. (That is actually an old Shadowrun joke from our area, had a Shadowrunner named Kevin, his runner name was simply Kevin, and he had business cards that just said Kevin on the front.)
Ok, so here is my plan.
I have a group of NPCS I am making as an opposing group for my pcs, and I have so e odd criteria for them.
The PC group is:
The whole game is set in one huge city.
Here is the plan for the NPC team.
The leader is an arcane class of some kind, an elf, but flavor of caster does not matter but he needs to be good at social skills. He is the up front guy.
However he has 4 Wyrwood NPCS that follow him and fake being his pet constructs and or familiar/homunculous.
The leader does not really do much other that be the up front obvious guy while hos Wyrwood teammates sneak around and get the work done.
Rules for the team:
Leader has to be an Elf and Arcane of some kind with social skills.
The 4 Wyrwood NPCS have to have:
At least average or better stealth abilities.
Be self sufficient without their arcane backup.
I am thinking:
If third-party content is allowed like the ones I listed in the original post then the Warlock damage goes up considerably the first one allows you to cast off intelligence as well as basing most charisma talents on int instead and the second lets you add intelligence to the damage of your bolts and it allows them to be affected by feats like deadly aim and piranha strike. In the same book there is also a vigilante talent that gives you point-blank shot and precise shot that only applies to your bolts and there is another talent that gives you the two weapon fighting tree that progresses as you level
Ok so here is the deal, I loved 3.5 warlock and I want to try the equivalent in pathfinder, but as we all know Kinetecist is pretty much unplayable.
However Warlock Vigilante looks awesome, but I do not care for the dual identity and social talents. Consumed takes care of all of that, but here is the issue.
I can not find info on the specifics of consumed archtype, so help a brother out.
Human, stats are 10 12 14 14 16 18
Going to take mystic accuracy and genius vigilante at level 1.
Past that I got no info to go on.
Confused Pathfinder wrote:
I had a very similar situation come up about 2 years ago, we were making a 3 man game where evil was fine if lawful, my buddy picked ninja first.
I went with slayer, cleaner specifically.
Also unchained rogue is also amazing.
The reason they can't make their own characters is that they are lazy stoners and would never do it.
I am planning to run a game for a few friends and have decided to make gestalt characters for them to play, however here is where it gets tricky.
1. The entire campaign is going to be set in one city from level 1 to 20, they will travel every once in a while to handle things but the mega city will always be the main hub.
2. There will only be 3 people in the game, that way I will give more 1 on 1 time to each player and the challenge can be balanced easier.
3. The races do not have to be the same but I am leaning toward 3 different breeds of Aasimar, but no rolling on the alternate trait table
4. Here is the big one, for each gestalt character one of the classes has to be Vigilante 1 to 20, but you can do whatever archtype in vigilante you want to make it fit easier.
4. Stats are: 18, 16, 14, 14, 12, 10.
So, what combo of vigilante archtype and class makes a 3 person group work the best?
I will never understand the double standard for this.
I can not even tell you how many times a wizard/sorcerer blasts a party member and it is always, "Well, you should not charge until the casters throws a spell."
If someone does it with a bomb, however it just becomes, "why are you targeting teammates, just stand back."
Double standard as always.
However, to fix the issue.
1. If you want to charge the enemy just hold your action to do it just after the bomb, or go ahead and charge and take the damage.
2. If you are already in melee with the creature, I would hope that the alchemist memorized Targeted Bomb Admixture, it is great and level 1. I always keep at least one one hand simply because against a single target it is a nice damage boost.
3. Just throw the bomb behind the target and hurt it some with the splash damage alone.
What is your belief on role playing stats that are outside the norm?
Mid level stats are easy, stats from 8 - 20 are not too tough but what about the extremes.
Maybe this will help those trying to figure out how to role play their characters with outlier stats.
Low: 5 and under
It is not usually that hard to role play strength as a stat.
Here comes the harder ones.
I am currently playing a Slayer with a Dex of 24 but a Charisma 7.
I tend to walk quietly, flip around a coin/dagger absentmindedly, and such to show the Dex but conversely my character never really keeps his opinion to himself, and is pretty much a jerk to everyone.
What are your thoughts and added ideas.
I am not looking to rebuild, I am looking at what to take after level 7.
1. We have combat about once every 4 sessions.
2. Total after all factors:
Other skills there for flavor and just in case.
3. Lack of combat encounters is bothersome but not that big of a deal. It is more just that In combat all I do sneak/run up and hit them with a pick axe, outside of combat all I am is a set of skills that everyone in the group also has but they have ninja tricks or Bard abilities to back them up.
Secret Wizard wrote:
I'd retrain to a Cleric or Warpriest, or perhaps an Inquisitor. You are likely getting bored of a martial, which is fine, so why not try a half-caster half-martial?
I love martial classes, that is not really the issue, I looked as the Slayer class and specifically the Cleaner archtype, and said, "Hey I love the cleaner idea." We are all a big crime syndicate, so it is very useful. However, unless I have to fake a crime scene or we are heading into an obvious fight it is usually sitting back while the Bard and Ninja do everything.
I think Inquisitor or even Paladin (we do not use alignments so paladin's have no restrictions.) would be great thematically or story wise, but i do not have the right stats to support it.
I will look into either empiricist Investigator or Vivisectionist Alchemist.
I have never seen Dexter but many people have told me I would like it.
Yeah we got rid of that stupid trait rule, it made no sense.
My character is more having the issues of, as he told the leader of a cult a few games ago. "I am evil, but the world needs me. I know someday that will become that I hate, I am a murderer, I am a monster, someday, someone will take vengeance on me... so be it."
Also he is so obsessed with his work that I know he can not do it in my lifetime, he is looking to become immortal.
I looked at Empiricst, and like the flair of it.
I will edit in the traits but yes I have:
Student of Philosophy and Clever Word Play, to cover my horribly charisma.