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I'm curious, why do people think there are going to be more classes?
Why do people think there AREN'T going to be more classes?
Paizo DOES have to keep publishing books, you know.
I mean for this playtest. We were told it was just 10.
It was established at like post 2 I thought that we were just going to talk about classes we would want to see in the future.
I mean for this playtest. We were told it was just 10.It was established at like post 2 I thought that we were just going to talk about classes we would want to see in the future.
Yup, that's pretty much how I see this thread.
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Summoner/Alchemist - Prepared caster with a magical beast companion that gets updated with more features as she levels. Ever wonder who created something like the Owlbear or Bulette? These guys.
Whether it's a full-on Sorcerer/Gunslinger hybrid, or just an archetype of the Sorc, I want a spontaneous Spellslinger.
I love the idea of an Alchemist/Bard who uses intoxicating brews and merriment to induce incredibly volatile effects. Less accessible than the bard because it would require actual drinking for the best effects, but would prove very potent.
I'm personally imagining brews that would have straight forward effects like cure light wounds and bull's strength, and more Dynami ones, like one that causes a spell to take effect after a caster uses a spell (Such as chain lightning going off in the area a fireball detonates at)
Or even mutagen-like effects!
3/4ths BAB, full caster up to 6th level, lots of bonuses to brew potion.
I know it isn't a hybrid but when will I see psionics!
I know it isn't a hybrid but when will I see psionics!
The PF team has said that they're not that interested in psionics, and if and when they ever do psionics, it wouldn't look like 3.5 psionics. Fortunately, Dreamscarred Press has totally Pathfinderized 3.5 Psionics and has expanded and extended it in tons of cool ways. Their work is at least as good as Paizo stuff if not better, and is on d20pfsrd if you want to check it out.
I know it isn't a hybrid but when will I see psionics!
Well, here's the most recent thoughts on the subject by the Lead Designer, as of April this year.
So while there's legitimate interest, there's some serious crinkles holding it back.
Personally, I was surprised there wasn't a Divine/Arcane Mystic Theurge from level one hybrid in this book. Considering how many folks have wanted to play this concept, and tried so very hard to make it work.
In the vein of hybrid classes, I could also see a total jack of all trades working, like the Factotum from 3.5e. A true hybrid of all classes. Perhaps working a bit of "blue mage" with "mime" concepts to give it a more unique theme than just "I do a little bit of everybody's thing".
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Personally, I was surprised there wasn't a Divine/Arcane Mystic Theurge from level one hybrid in this book. Considering how many folks have wanted to play this concept, and tried so very hard to make it work.
That was my first reaction too.
Magus allows the "fighter/mage" concept, but the "mage/thief"* and "cleric/mage" were popular concepts in previous editions and I"m surprised that no base/hybrid classes attempted to recreate them.
* one could say that Investigator does "mage/thief", but not in the magic-backstabber sense. Also, the ninja from Ultimate Combat Guide does the invisible + sneak attack, but it's a ninja, not a mage/thief...
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So, for us, Monk is made better by everything else.
Monk and Rogue for my group. Great Gestalt combos. Not so great on their own.
Paladin|Rogue Gestalts can be pretty darned nasty in the right circumstances.
I know it isn't a hybrid but when will I see psionics!Well, here's the most recent thoughts on the subject by the Lead Designer, as of April this year.
So while there's legitimate interest, there's some serious crinkles holding it back.
I like to see as some have said Alchemist/ Wizard as Artificer or Magic Engineer which doesnt have mutganes and bombs are powered down ie from d6 to d4 who gets Arcane Discorveries that can apply to bombs or item creation feats.
Summoner/Fighter - I would like to see a functional Synthesist. Loved the idea and esthetic, but plays like a #%#$^%$ rock.
Contributor
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I was disappointed that there were no paladin hybrids in the 10. I mean, 2 barbarians, 2 fighters, 2 rogues... no paladin? Every other core class and half the base classes got hybrids. Paladin/ranger that hunts down all things evil/against code. Paladin/druid that reveres nature and upholds peace and balance. Something that mixes the flavor and focus of a paladin with... anything really.
I'd like to see more bards, but I'm horribly biased when it comes to bards. Something like a Spellsinger that is a sorcerer/bard hybrid would be cool. A martial class that has bard mixed in (maybe a 4/9 caster like bloodrager, but bardy) is conceptually cool; don't just play a gish that buffs himself and runs in, play a gish that buffs EVERYONE and DANCES in!
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I'm curious, why do people think there are going to be more classes?
The OP was posted before the playtest actually came out, and I think he was still running on the information when only 4 or 5 of the 10 classes had been announced.
But as to speculating for the future....
While I do not feel especially desirous for more classes, and feel like half the ones in the playtest serve little purpose/ are uninteresting to me....
What hybrids would be interesting....
Fighter/Druid: Non spellcasting shapeshifter/natural weapon warrior
Synthesist/Alchemist: Iron Man/Magic-Armor-Suit warrior
Inquisitor/Monk: A witch hunter specializing in capturing and hindering live foes, using lots of combat maneuvers. Can competently fight unarmed so as to appear harmless.
Monk/Sorcerer: Basically, turn the qingong monk concept into a full caster (or maybe just a sorcerer bloodline)
Fighter/Cavalier or Cavalier/Bard: Armored marshal, no mount
Monk/Cleric: An ascetic scholar-priest, full caster, very little combat focus. I've actually started writing something like this up.
What other classes would be interesting that aren't hybrids:
Inventor/Engineer
Healer -- full casty healbot/support class. A la the class in Nethack.
Though I know it'd never happen, I'd also rather see a shaman that wasn't so shoehorned and shackled and overcomplicated by the attempt to make it out of a oracle/witch hybrid.
I was disappointed that there were no paladin hybrids in the 10. I mean, 2 barbarians, 2 fighters, 2 rogues... no paladin? Every other core class and half the base classes got hybrids. Paladin/ranger that hunts down all things evil/against code. Paladin/druid that reveres nature and upholds peace and balance. Something that mixes the flavor and focus of a paladin with... anything really.
I'd like to see more bards, but I'm horribly biased when it comes to bards. Something like a Spellsinger that is a sorcerer/bard hybrid would be cool. A martial class that has bard mixed in (maybe a 4/9 caster like bloodrager, but bardy) is conceptually cool; don't just play a gish that buffs himself and runs in, play a gish that buffs EVERYONE and DANCES in!
I agree! So I propose The Herald, a Bard/Paladin Hybrid!
A medium armored, 3/4 BAB with full caster level (with 6th level spells all divine) support class with some martial ability, but focuses on making his ally's awesome. But instead of directly buffing his friends, he focuses on manipulating events to their favor. People under his rousing tale could;
Automatically make a saving throw they fail a limited number of times per day (Such as three charges per day but each ally can only use it once per day)
Automatically confirm a critical hit
Roll the max amount for damage or healing
And other effects. Maybe purging status conditions, or regain a spell slot by sacrificing a slightly lower spell slot (Recharge a sixth with a fifth, once per day)
The idea I have is someone who can be on the front lines with medium armor and a decent hit die and good saving throws, and boosts his friends, but has less staying power than a paladin, and less wild card flair than the bard, and may not directly buff with hard numbers.
I think a full-blown Shapeshifter class would kick some butt. And I don't mean Druid knock-off.. I'm talkin' Evolutions style, build-your-own shape type of shapeshifter.
I imagine it taking on a striker roll (d8, 3/4 BAB, 6+int skills, no spellcasting). That way it's shapeshifting can be a forefront ability, can have multiple forms, and have tactical as well as pure combat roles (like scouting and infiltration).
Then you can pull out archetypes based on Scions, like a Doppleganger scion, who is more humanoid in what it can shapechange, but has all proficiencies and can train any skill, low-grade telepathy, etc, edging the class more towards infiltration than combat.
Or an Oni/Ogremage/Rakshasa scion, that has a purely combat/regen/monstrous background.
Or a therianthrope scion.. has two forms, animal and hybrid.
Or a druidic/shambler scion, that goes all plant and pure animal forms.
When I can imagine at least 3 or 4 archetypes off a base idea, then I know it deserves to be a full blown class on it's own, rather than just an archetype or alternate class.
Perhaps far better than just a big book of hybrid classes, how about instructions for creating and balancing the ones that are needed or wanted?
Spellcloak; Rogue/Illusionist; an assassin whom uses illusions, death attacks and a variety of utilitarian arcane spells to be a better assassin.
Arcane Bullet; Gunslinger/Sorcerer essentially, a 3/4 bab spontanous caster with 6th level spells, whom combines spell and bullet. has the ability to use his guns without buying bullets due to his magic.
Wushu Master; Monk/Swashbuckler an agility based graceful spear master as seen in many Wuxia movies.
Paladin/Abjurer; Templar, a holy knight specialized in combating spellcasters
Dervish; Swashbuckler/Slayer; a class that combines momentum with a rapid flurry of timed and precise strikes with a pair of 1handed slashing weapons
Skinwalker; Barbarian/Druid a class whom combines rage with rage powers and wildshape but doesn't cast spells. a full BAB class of primal origin
i'd also like to see a series of rules for constructing classes, either menu based or point based but not both.
I'd love to see a rogue/spellcaster of some kind a la the Beguiler from 3.5. That's probably one of the only classes that I really miss from 3.5 that hasn't been ported over already.
Umbriere's Skinwalker idea sounds absolutely epic, I'd love to see that.
I hope we see a variant of Swashbuckler in some realm that focuses more on guns than on rapiers. While gunslinger can do some neat things, I'd like to see more up close and personal pistol-shenanigans.
I also like Kaisoku's SHapeshifter idea, perhaps using something akin to Summoner's Eidolon, but amping it up to make it into it's own class? I think that'd be pretty neat, you'd just have to be careful what you did with it.
As much as people have harped on it, I am still in many ways waiting on Psionics. I understand DSP have done some work, but from the sounds of various comments by various Paizo members, we may or may not get something down the line. I'd rather not get drawn into and accustomed to DSP psionics just to have to throw it out later.
I'd also like to see something akin to the Blue/Red mage idea. Someone who can do both things (or all things A La Factotum from 3.5) but not as good as the original. I'd say that if you went for just dual-casting, maybe you'd go to 6th level spells for both. If you went for casting and some amount of martial proficiency, 4th level spells for both. I think it'd require a lot of work to balance, but could ultimately be pretty awesome.
I'm still upset that it looks like there won't be a spontaneous-caster version of the Druid. I had been working on a homebrew version, that basically mirrored the Oracle except lacking something like the "curse" mechanic (which in my games has always been optional, as it's too fluff-affecting), but I'd really like to see Paizo do it. That's one of the few things I had been hoping for since books like the APG and Ultimate Magic, and it's something that it looks like isn't coming.
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About the following slayer talent:
Trapfinding: The hunter gains Disable Device as a class
skill, and adds half his level to Perception skill checks
made to locate traps and to Disable Device skill checks
(minimum 1). Just like a rogue, the hunter can use Disable
Device to disarm magic traps. The slayer gains trap sense
as a rogue of the same level.
So slayer take a talent and gets both trapfinding AND trap sense? is this book going to present rogue-only feats that help us provide shameless boosts so rogues can keep up a bit? I have a few "ready to print" solutions for the rogue if it's not too late...
Edit: LOL, I think I'm too late... :)
I think this is indicative of trying to tailor a class-based system to infinite player character wishes. As they add more and more hybrid classes, there will still always be more and more combinations asked for. The only true way around this would be to break apart every single class into it's core capabilities, give those abilities some point value, and prerequisites, and allow the building of a complete character based on them. Capabilities could have affinity groups, where they are perhaps cheaper in point cost if you already have a certain number of capabilities in that affinity group (would give specialization benefits, that more accurately represent the current class system). If building an RPG system from scratch, I think this would make for a very fun game - but at the same time, Pathfinder is not truly it's own game system, it is an evolution of what was set forth in D&D Basic so many years ago, and classes are here to stay.
I think, however, that this is something I had wished for in the 'Advanced Class Guide', instead of just more 'classes', the ability to create 'custom classes'.
Might be a fun community project to develop though...
Monk/Cleric, Monk/Paladin.
I want to infuse my fists with the power of my god and punch dragons in the face with it.
...Monk/Paladin.
I want to infuse my fists with the power of my god and punch dragons in the face with it.
Have you seen the Iroran paladin archetype? It does a good job of combining monk and paladin mechanics.
If I'm not mistaken it's in the Inner Sea Combat.
...Monk/Paladin.
I want to infuse my fists with the power of my god and punch dragons in the face with it.
Have you seen the Iroran paladin archetype? It does a good job of combining monk and paladin mechanics.
If I'm not mistaken it's in the Inner Sea Combat.
I get most of my info on this stuff from the srd. So I don't know about a lot of the other stuff out there, just the basics.
I want to see a Paladin/Bard.
Bard/Druid
Witch/bard
Paladin/Barbarian