Agents of Shield


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Scarab Sages

Well now…..

Spoiler:
Goodbye Rosalind. If it’s any consolation, you had an awesome death scene. I did not see that coming, but it was pretty f$&$ing cool. And the aftermath, with Coulson fighting his way through a bunch of Hydra goons, was f@$!ing sweet. They should unleash him more often, but he’s got to get a better hand.

For some reason, I thought Ward’s baby brother was dead. I guess it was just another lie in a history of lies associated with that character. It’ll be interesting to see where they take that in the future. IF, that is, Grant Ward actually has a future other than repository for bullets and/or the artificial hand Coulson wants to shove down his throat.

With further regard to Ward - To an extent, I agree with some folks sentiment that he just doesn't make that good of a main villain. He definitely needs a lot more polish and shine before he can move up to that level. Right now, he's just an angry soldier playing sick, violent games. That being said, I think he does have potential. And I think the Gideon character is just the type of guy to help bring that out of him. Hopefully, they'll keep both around a bit longer, but give us a break from them for awhile.

Fitz once again stealing scenes. “I don’t want to live in a world without you.” Dude gets awesome lines. I’m hoping they don’t kill him. And I really wouldn’t mind seeing him put a bullet or three into Ward. Hell, I think I’d like to see the entire original team go at that bastard.

Speaking of entire original team, I loved the interview sequence. It was nice to see the most of the original group interacting again, even if it was just one on one with Coulson.

I look forward to next weeks (hopeful) revelation as to the mysterious Inhuman’s identity.

On a final note, while fast forwarding through one segment of commercials, I spotted my cousin. She did a commercial for Academy Sports. So I stopped and watched it. She’s a nice kid.


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CBDunkerson wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
If it hasn't already taken Will.

Oh, and to Purple Dragon Knight, as a female fan of this show...I NEVER liked Ward.

Scarab Sages

Spiral_Ninja wrote:
CBDunkerson wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
If Will wasn't IT all along....

Aberzombie wrote:
Spiral_Ninja wrote:
CBDunkerson wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Good point. Though, when I mentioned that theory to my daughter her response was

Spoiler:
why would IT get it on with her, rather than just killing her, like all the others?

My thought on one possibility harks back to my 'is she pregnant' theory. IT/the Monster CAN'T cross back on it's own, but can transfer itself to its child. It toyed with her while learning all it could about the modern world, knowing/realizing she wasn't a 'sacrifice'. When the rescue/escape attempt almost worked, IT realized she could escape and so set up a way to escape itself.


OK, folks; who's going to make it back? Bets, theories?

My choices:

Coulson (of course)
Fitz (once Coulson keeps him from sacrificing himself for Will)
Will (if he IS the Monster/It, definitely)
Ward (the writers just seem to love that guy! For those who are clamoring for a big redemption bit for him, this could be the time...though, in that case he dies/stays on the planet)

Everyone else there is redshirted. Though, Ward's big 'redemption' could be making sure his team gets back safe.

Oh, and I can also see them bringing back Monster/IT, and Lash killing IT, dying/losing his Lash form in the process.


I personally find Ward entertaining as a villain. I never liked him as a hero, but I think he works as an antagonist.

And the villain reveal was halfway through season 1, not in season 2 as someone claimed above. (And it was actually hinted at, though subtly, before that. One such example being in the episode where he's charmed by Lorelei, he clearly tries to shoot May after they've shut Lorelei's powers down, but the gun is empty. He gives up an instant later and reveals the charm wore off, but even at the time I went "WTF was that?".)

The villain reveal, for me, was satisfying, because Ward made a lot of stupid mistakes for a seasoned, supposedly badass, agent up to that point, which were in retrospect likely intentional to keep the team from getting too close to The Clairvoyant.

And he's definitely supposed to be brought in as a seasoned agent in the beginning. As far as most of SHIELD knows, there's only 6 levels of clearance, with 6 being the highest (this is actually established in one of the shorts where Sitwell and Coulson are talking about Tony Stark) and it's only once you achieve level 7 clearance are you made aware of the higher levels.


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Kalshane wrote:

I personally find Ward entertaining as a villain. I never liked him as a hero, but I think he works as an antagonist.

And the villain reveal was halfway through season 1, not in season 2 as someone claimed above. (And it was actually hinted at, though subtly, before that. One such example being in the episode where he's charmed by Lorelei, he clearly tries to shoot May after they've shut Lorelei's powers down, but the gun is empty. He gives up an instant later and reveals the charm wore off, but even at the time I went "WTF was that?".)

The villain reveal, for me, was satisfying, because Ward made a lot of stupid mistakes for a seasoned, supposedly badass, agent up to that point, which were in retrospect likely intentional to keep the team from getting too close to The Clairvoyant.

And he's definitely supposed to be brought in as a seasoned agent in the beginning. As far as most of SHIELD knows, there's only 6 levels of clearance, with 6 being the highest (this is actually established in one of the shorts where Sitwell and Coulson are talking about Tony Stark) and it's only once you achieve level 7 clearance are you made aware of the higher levels.

You know what....I agree with you. I actually like Ward as a villain. He makes an excellent, tragic and very human villain, and I find his development fascinating. He goes from someone with a really lousy home life who gets taken in by a twisted father figure, to someone who is trying to make his way in the world yet completely unwilling to take responsibility for everything he has done wrong, to someone with short-minded goals of revenge.

In the last few episodes, that latter aspect has been directly called into question. Gideon calls out his lack of vision and focus on revenge as a major character flaw that prevents him from reaching his true potential. One of several climaxes last episode was Ward finally willing to move beyond petty revenge and become a true leader.

Ward's plot arc through the show so far is basically "the Villain's Journey". Comparing him to fully formed villains like Kingpin is I think missing the point.

EDIT: And I also just love how most shows, after the first season, would have slowly made Ward into a reluctant ally/anti-hero, but nope. AoS went full "Ward is a horrible person and will always be horrible" route.


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Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

Not at all.

But I brought you to a good space: compare Ward and Kingpin.

If you see them as equal I will never ever be able to sway your opinion about this, as I think "Ward" is not even a character in the sense of it. Character development is non-existent, I don't really feel bad for him and how he became a villain.

And face it, if I'm going to spend time watching a Marvel show, make it about Marvel characters. Agents of SHIELD has always suffered from that "original sin" in my opinion, in the sense that "let's do a show about nothing, but in the MCU". Every nugget they feed you is a deliberate tug of war between various studio execs. I applaud the effort, as it's never really been done before, but after three seasons of this, I can't really say that it makes for awesome TV.

At least GOTHAM is a show about Gordon, Penguin, Riddler, Two-Face, Batman, Alfred, Catwoman, and so on. Yes it's set in the past, but it's about characters DC aficionados give a dam about.

If Marvel Agents of SHIELD was about Nick Fury, Dum Dum Duggan, Maria Hill, some of the other commandos, and their tie ins with Cap and Iron Man, it would be a completely more watchable animal. I wouldn't even care if they all drank from the same Kool Aid that gave them back their youth so they could all be on the same show! :)

Ya know...if you don't like AoS...no one is point a gun to your head and making you watch it. Just saying. The stuff you want is basically impossible, unless somehow you split the TV-verse from the movie verse. which its a bit too late to do now.

I actually LIKE the fact that for a change, I can't just wikipedia a character's name to see what happens to them before a season even airs. And the fact that Gotham is pretty damn horrible despite using tons of DC characters kind of speaks for itself. I don't need a ton of characters pointing out HEY THIS GUY BECOMES THE RIDDLER for me to enjoy the show.


I wouldn't be surprised if the Will she encountered was the creature after all Simmons was the first woman that went to that planet.

Scarab Sages

Spiral_Ninja wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:
Spiral_Ninja wrote:
CBDunkerson wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **
Good point. Though, when I mentioned that theory to my daughter her response was ** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
My thinking on this:

If, as they hint, IT has mental powers, then it likely have known right off that Simmons was a scientist, and had an equally capable scientist friend who would be trying to reopen the portal and rescue her, and that this friend might have the resources to do it. So, play nice, pretend to be normal, and get invited back.

Also, IT could very well be lonely, insane, or both.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

I need to go back a couple of steps.

I am still having a problem with how "secret cabal studying the obilisk" becomes a "world-conquering supertech Nazi (or post-Nazi) organization."

As far as I can tell (and I am thinking Ward is also having this problem) one does not connect to the other.

Also, why does a "Hydra" symbol have only one head and many tentacles? Yes, the comics also have this problem, so I cannot blame the MCU for this.

--- --- ---

Aberzombie wrote:
Quote:

Spoiler:
My thinking on this:

If, as they hint, IT has mental powers, then it likely have known right off that Simmons was a scientist, and had an equally capable scientist friend who would be trying to reopen the portal and rescue her, and that this friend might have the resources to do it. So, play nice, pretend to be normal, and get invited back.

Also, IT could very well be lonely, insane, or both.

Or ...

Spoiler:
Will and the entity could actually be separate. And Will (Hydra agent or innocent dupe (like Rosalind Pike was)), he is a human trapped on the world.

Scarab Sages

Lord Fyre wrote:

I need to go back a couple of steps.

I am still having a problem with how "secret cabal studying the obilisk" becomes a "world-conquering supertech Nazi (or post-Nazi) organization."

As far as I can tell (and I am thinking Ward is also having this problem) one does not connect to the other.

Also, why does a "Hydra" symbol have only one head and many tentacles? Yes, the comics also have this problem, so I cannot blame the MCU for this.

--- --- ---

Aberzombie wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

Or ...

** spoiler omitted **

Indeed. It'll be interesting to see which way they run with this. Either way, I'm sure they'll want to try and keep the love triangle alive for awhile longer.


Spiral_Ninja wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:
Spiral_Ninja wrote:
CBDunkerson wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **
Good point. Though, when I mentioned that theory to my daughter her response was ** spoiler omitted **

she was the first woman sent through. old Hydra guy even says he never thought to send a woman.


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I really hope Ward doesn't last more than 1 or 2 more episodes. I am really done with both him and Hydra.

Sovereign Court

Time for AIM to take the spotlight.

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AIM in the comics is now a good-guy organization (Avengers Idea Mechanics). We'll have to wait a little while for the organization to revert back to its baseline.

And that'll give the props department time to buy up all the wastepaper-baskets they'll need for the costumes.


Hama wrote:
X-men don't fit in the MCU at all.

Sure they do. They just aren't using them. They could easily slip right in without anyone even blinking though.

As it stands right now, we have humans with something Xtra in their genes that may or may not grant them powers...

People who hate and fear them because they're different/dangerous...

A government looking to register and arrest or Capture/expirement on them...

How again do X-men not fit in the MCU??

Thomas Seitz wrote:

What about Kingpin? He had no powers but he was a great villain.

Kingpin had potential to be a good villain... but the reality was that he was PRETTY lame.

I'm on my second time through the series right now, and I'm astonished at how wimpy and whiny he is. This whole thing about finding love and softening his character to make him worth her... should have been saved for a later season. As it is he spends a LOT of time hovering around hospital beds and talking soft like a wounded puppy to little Chinese women and business partners. The occasional bouts of Rage-killing don't make him the kingpin.

He should have been more the untouchable silent force of all evil in the city. The head of the snake that controls everything and has plans on plans to make sure he never loses control. Then when Daredevil finally... FINALLY gets close, he finds a serious PHYSICAL threat too. Someone who doesn't often get his hands dirty, but that doesn't mean he CAN'T...

He STARTED strong as the 'name you don't mention,' but they focused too much on the lonely fat kid yearning to be loved that they spent way too long without him really BEING a villain. Wesley and Owlsly were doing more then he was.

Thomas Seitz wrote:

Uhm I never considered Ward "Bond" more like super spy guy that now pretty much uses his talents to serve his agenda.

Whatever that might be.

Well, in most circles 'Super-spy guy' is the same as 'Bond'. He's the archetype of ultra kick butt dark haired handsome man who has cool gadgets, kills enemies, and gets the girl.

Which is pretty much how Ward was introduced, then they took it to the NEXT level but introducing even tougher and Cooler characters then he was. It was an escalation to show how awesome SHIELD was.

Personally I like Ward. I liked him as a good guy, and I liked the twist with him becoming a bad guy. I'd like a bit more direction and focus with him. This huge vendetta just for killing his girlfriend is a bit Blah. He's spent too long with his 'I don't care about anyone' mentality to justify it... Heck I was certain he was just using her in the first place and was gonna kill her himself!!

Rebuilding Hydra is a start... now I just want to see WHY he wants hydra??

QUESTION!

I feel like I missed SOMETHING between the seasons. What happened with the 'other' SHIELD? It seemed like they came to an agreement with Coulson handing over the Fury's toolbox and letting it known that Nick was still alive.

Then Fury took a helicarrier out for a spin in AoU...

Now Coulson is still director and they seem to be all still disavowed and hiding in hidden bunkers still?? Though they also have a huge new Super-bus...

So anyone know how this is playing out? did I miss a line somewhere explaining this?


It was all tied into the release of terrigen into the ecosystem. Other SHIELD wanted proof that the Inhumans were not a threat, and both sides, paired Ours/Theirs went to Afterlife, where Coulson let the highly suspicious leader (I forget his name) speak to Daisy/Skye's mom. Who had her own agenda, killed him, shot herself, then claimed he'd attacked her and she'd had to kill him in self-defense, in order to start a war to eliminate SHIELD and kill anyone who wasn't an inhuman by releasing the contaminated Terrigen onto Other SHIELD's ship/base. Coulson lost his arm when he was infected (Mack cut it off to save him), the Terrigen was dropped into the sea where it contaminated sea life and anyone who ate that sea life or fish oil pills made from them started transforming.

I don't THINK Other SHIELD was ever public, I think they wanted to clear the name and believed Coulson compromised by his TAHITI treatment.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

phantom1592 wrote:
How again do X-men not fit in the MCU??

21st Century FOX still has the film rights to all X-Men properties.

The reason the X-Men (or the Fantastic Four for that matter) don't fit in the MCU is that MARVEL sold the movie rights to those characters. (Had they not done so, I don't think MARVEL would have survived economically.)

phantom1592 wrote:
Then Fury took a helicarrier out for a spin in AoU...

Sadly, a missed opportunity. :(


Lord Fyre wrote:
phantom1592 wrote:
How again do X-men not fit in the MCU??

21st Century FOX still has the film rights to all X-Men properties.

The reason the X-Men (or the Fantastic Four for that matter) don't fit in the MCU is that MARVEL sold the movie rights to those characters. (Had they not done so, I don't think MARVEL would have survived economically.)

Oh I thought there were claims that they don't 'fit' into the MCU... not that they can't be used. Yeah, I'm aware of that legal fight.

Still, I think there are ways around most of it. Marvel/Disney still seems to have the rights to use X-men and FF characters in their Cartoons.

AoS is technically 'televison' rights, which if they had to barter away the tv rights to Fox just recently, means they probably still have the TV rights to Fantastic Four. Just imagine how cool it would be for Fitz and Simmons to team up with mr.fantastic in the lab!!!

And who knows WHAT these new Netflix deals are considered.. Not Film, not TV... some new kind of animal.


Spiral_Ninja wrote:

It was all tied into the release of terrigen into the ecosystem. Other SHIELD wanted proof that the Inhumans were not a threat, and both sides, paired Ours/Theirs went to Afterlife, where Coulson let the highly suspicious leader (I forget his name) speak to Daisy/Skye's mom. Who had her own agenda, killed him, shot herself, then claimed he'd attacked her and she'd had to kill him in self-defense, in order to start a war to eliminate SHIELD and kill anyone who wasn't an inhuman by releasing the contaminated Terrigen onto Other SHIELD's ship/base. Coulson lost his arm when he was infected (Mack cut it off to save him), the Terrigen was dropped into the sea where it contaminated sea life and anyone who ate that sea life or fish oil pills made from them started transforming.

I don't THINK Other SHIELD was ever public, I think they wanted to clear the name and believed Coulson compromised by his TAHITI treatment.

Yeah... ok, I remember that part. But I didn't think THAT many of them got killed off. There was a whole little council on that ship, with people who were better funded and more official than the Coulson 5 or whatever hiding in the snow bunker.

It looked to me like Coulson had stepped down as Director at that time and was going to go back to leading a strike force like season 1... but that's not how it turned out. He's still director... got a few more nameless background agents wandering around the base... but it still feels a bit 'smaller' then what other SHIELD was implying...

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

phantom1592 wrote:
Lord Fyre wrote:
phantom1592 wrote:
How again do X-men not fit in the MCU??

21st Century FOX still has the film rights to all X-Men properties.

The reason the X-Men (or the Fantastic Four for that matter) don't fit in the MCU is that MARVEL sold the movie rights to those characters. (Had they not done so, I don't think MARVEL would have survived economically.)

Oh I thought there were claims that they don't 'fit' into the MCU... not that they can't be used. Yeah, I'm aware of that legal fight.

But, because they cannot use Mutants in the Movie Universe (and Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. is the "Red Headed Step-Child" of the Move Universe), the writers are simply excising Mutants and all X-Men ties.

In other words: since they cannot use the X-Men in the MCU, then the X-Men simply don't exist in the MCU.

Sovereign Court

They can't just shoehorn mutants into the MCU now. THere has been no mention of them for 12 movies and several shows. And they have inhumans now. They don't need the X-men. And, quite frankly, I'm glad.

Scarab Sages

Caineach wrote:
I really hope Ward doesn't last more than 1 or 2 more episodes. I am really done with both him and Hydra.

I'd like to see the showrunners give them a break for at least one season.

Scarab Sages

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Chris Mortika wrote:
AIM in the comics is now a good-guy organization (Avengers Idea Mechanics).

This....just made me cry a bit on the inside.

Sovereign Court

Aberzombie wrote:
Chris Mortika wrote:
AIM in the comics is now a good-guy organization (Avengers Idea Mechanics).
This....just made me cry a bit on the inside.

The comics now are no longer representative of the original Marvel universe. Reality has been destroyed, and Earth 616 and Ultimate Marvel universe have merged into a demiplane ruled by Victor Von Doom, who is now a god.

Even if AIM got taken over by Sunspot previous to the shattering of the universe, it was in a weird spot where it was experimenting with and traveling to alternate dimensions. Nothing in the Marvel comics is like it used to be.

Disclaimer: I stopped reading the comics when they destroyed existence and merged with Ultimate Marvel... that was about 6 months ago I think. I think they've rebooted the whole Marvel universe.

Sovereign Court

Chris Mortika wrote:

AIM in the comics is now a good-guy organization (Avengers Idea Mechanics). We'll have to wait a little while for the organization to revert back to its baseline.

And that'll give the props department time to buy up all the wastepaper-baskets they'll need for the costumes.

Honestly I couldn't care less about how the state of things in the comics is right now. AIM of the MCU is definitely a villain organization.

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Aberzombie wrote:
Chris Mortika wrote:
AIM in the comics is now a good-guy organization (Avengers Idea Mechanics).
This....just made me cry a bit on the inside.

Actually I'm kind of intrigued by Sunspot's Avengers. Both because I love Robert DaCosta and because I'm pretty sure that AIM will be split between "Whoa, we can do ethical science pushing the bounds of reality and *not* get punched in the jaw?" and the original Unethical AIM.

Sovereign Court

In a world ruled by lawyers, the "Unethical AIM" gang would give themselves a new name and blame "Ethical AIM" if they get caught.

In effect, all that Sunspot would achieve is to legitimize the organization, wash it to give it a good name, only to lose the fringe scientists to a new employer, probably a supervillain. So I'm not sure his was a good idea in the first place, from a good vs. evil perspective.

One could say that from a COMPANY perspective, that was brilliant, but one would have to assume that the scientists he acquired by this are worth their salt and will generate new streams of revenue for him. I could see a few of the older AIM scientists being really happy that AIM is now legit, as they get close to pension and become risk-adverse...


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My reasons why mutants don't fit into the MCU:

Major characters are historically linked to specific times (Magneto). This causes a timetable for when events have to take place. Those events haven't taken place. They need to either break their existing continuity or make major changes to characters people wont be happy with.

Many of the mutant plots mirror the civil rights movement. Central themes revolve around discrimination and the public being aware of them and not knowing what to do about them. You could introduce them now and start those themes, but then you would have the origins of the X-Men just starting now, instead of them being an established entity. The whole reason Xavier's School for the Gifted exists and has students doesn't work if no one knows that mutants exist enough to discriminate against them.

Inhumans serve the same function as mutants, especially if you are making mutants just a different break out group with superpowers.

They make the universe more fantastic. Right now, aside from some crazy scientists, everything in the MCU is close to normal. Sure, they plan on introducing some mystical stuff soon, but literally everything else is caused by science or aliens. The existence of mutants change the lives of everyday people in ways that what has been shown fails to.

Mutants up the average power scale. Right now, you have a handful of tier 1 heroes (Thor, Hulk), a few tier 2 characters (Iron Man, Daisy), and a bunch of tier 3 and lower characters. The X-Men have dozens of tier 1 and 2 characters, changing the power dynamic of the world drastically.

Sovereign Court

Well said.

Sovereign Court

Caineach wrote:

They make the universe more fantastic. Right now, aside from some crazy scientists, everything in the MCU is close to normal. Sure, they plan on introducing some mystical stuff soon, but literally everything else is caused by science or aliens. The existence of mutants change the lives of everyday people in ways that what has been shown fails to.

Mutants up the average power scale. Right now, you have a handful of tier 1 heroes (Thor, Hulk), a few tier 2 characters (Iron Man, Daisy), and a bunch of tier 3 and lower characters. The X-Men have dozens of tier 1 and 2 characters, changing the power dynamic of the world drastically.

I'm not sure about your arguments there. Wait until they start using Graviton before making your decision on whether the universe is fantastic or not... their limitations may be more related to the special effects budget than the properties of the MCU universe...

Also, the whole mutant angle has always been explained by science. Henry McCoy has a major role in both the X-Men and Avenger's history, and he's a science guy. Wanda, the so-called "Scarlet Witch" is pretty much the only one with mystical powers, and she's in the MCU already (and those powers can be explained by science / mutant genes / Thor's explanation that magic is science, a view also shared by the Dark Elf king in the comics... and probably all powerful beings outside of the "Midgard" dimension)

Finally, you seem to forget that this is the Marvel Cinematic Universe, not the CSI: [insert city] universe: they can bring in the X-Men by opening a portal to another dimension, same actors and all...

Sovereign Court

If they did that, I would lose all respect for them and never ever see another MCU movie.


Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Caineach wrote:

They make the universe more fantastic. Right now, aside from some crazy scientists, everything in the MCU is close to normal. Sure, they plan on introducing some mystical stuff soon, but literally everything else is caused by science or aliens. The existence of mutants change the lives of everyday people in ways that what has been shown fails to.

Mutants up the average power scale. Right now, you have a handful of tier 1 heroes (Thor, Hulk), a few tier 2 characters (Iron Man, Daisy), and a bunch of tier 3 and lower characters. The X-Men have dozens of tier 1 and 2 characters, changing the power dynamic of the world drastically.

I'm not sure about your arguments there. Wait until they start using Graviton before making your decision on whether the universe is fantastic or not... their limitations may be more related to the special effects budget than the properties of the MCU universe...

Also, the whole mutant angle has always been explained by science. Henry McCoy has a major role in both the X-Men and Avenger's history, and he's a science guy. Wanda, the so-called "Scarlet Witch" is pretty much the only one with mystical powers, and she's in the MCU already (and those powers can be explained by science / mutant genes / Thor's explanation that magic is science, a view also shared by the Dark Elf king in the comics... and probably all powerful beings outside of the "Midgard" dimension)

Finally, you seem to forget that this is the Marvel Cinematic Universe, not the CSI: [insert city] universe: they can bring in the X-Men by opening a portal to another dimension, same actors and all...

that counters part 1, but not part 2.

As for opening up a portal to a parallel earth, there is a reason they just exploded the multiverse and consolidated it into a single entity in the comics. I doubt they are going to go opening up that can of worms in the movies.


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I'm still glad the X-Men rights are separate as it forces Marvel to not follow their standard procedure of putting Wolverine in everything.


I suspect if Marvel got the X-men back, they would find SOME WAY of bringing those characters into the MCU.

But it's all hypothetical; It's unlikely to happen in the next decade, as long as super hero movies are profitable and Fox remains interested in making more x-men movies.

I do suspect that the MCU might get Fantastic Four (or stuff associated with those characters at least back) from Fox, but it wouldn't be difficult at all bringing them into the MCU.

Scarab Sages

I could see a Deadpool crossover into the MCU like Spiderman's as well.

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MMCJawa wrote:

I suspect if Marvel got the X-men back, they would find SOME WAY of bringing those characters into the MCU.

But it's all hypothetical; It's unlikely to happen in the next decade, as long as super hero movies are profitable and Fox remains interested in making more x-men movies.

Remember there is also some bad blood between FOX and Disney over the Lucas Arts purchase. :(


Caineach wrote:

My reasons why mutants don't fit into the MCU:

Major characters are historically linked to specific times (Magneto). This causes a timetable for when events have to take place. Those events haven't taken place. They need to either break their existing continuity or make major changes to characters people wont be happy with.

Many of the mutant plots mirror the civil rights movement. Central themes revolve around discrimination and the public being aware of them and not knowing what to do about them. You could introduce them now and start those themes, but then you would have the origins of the X-Men just starting now, instead of them being an established entity. The whole reason Xavier's School for the Gifted exists and has students doesn't work if no one knows that mutants exist enough to discriminate against them.

I'm not sure what you mean here. What major events haven't happened? What couldn't be rewritten? Hulk, Iron Man, Scarlet Witch, Vision, Ultron... they've all had major parts of their backstory completely updated and rewritten.

Magneto was in the Holocaust... but frankly 1) that was a retcon back in the 70's and 80's anyway that didn't show up for years after he appeared. and 2) I'm sure they could find SOME way to say his powers slowed his aging or something... they're going to have to do that eventually ANYWAY..

Remember the school started small, 5 students and one professor. That's pretty much how it started in the 60's. Most of the normal people weren't aware of the mutants till the X-men and Magneto made the idea public.

AND, we're already getting that exact thing with the inhumans. Lincoln and his buddies have had their powers for years and living under the radar because to do otherwise would be to freak people out. Their little Commune was little more then Xavier's school for the gifted... Teach them to use the powers before letting them out into the real world again. Same principle.

Caineach wrote:


Inhumans serve the same function as mutants, especially if you are making mutants just a different break out group with superpowers

They make the universe more fantastic. Right now, aside from some crazy scientists, everything in the MCU is close to normal. Sure, they plan on introducing some mystical stuff soon, but literally everything else is caused by science or aliens. The existence of mutants change the lives of everyday people in ways that what has been shown fails to.

Mutants up the average power scale. Right now, you have a handful of tier 1 heroes (Thor, Hulk), a few tier 2 characters (Iron Man, Daisy), and a bunch of tier 3 and lower characters. The X-Men have dozens of tier 1 and 2 characters, changing the power dynamic of the world drastically.

I don't really agree. Except for the part about Inhumans serving the same function. That's kind of the point. Inhumans are Humans, raised by humans... who have a little something extra in their DNA and now are sprouting powers. Some are weak sauce, some are pretty epic.

The 'mutant' power scale is already here. We're gonna see people like Black Bolt who can wipe cities with a whisper. we've had cosmic cubes and we're working toward infinity gauntlets... Doctor Strange... Every movie or series that comes out is going to escalate the power up.

Taking the O5 X-men or even the Giant Sized #1 really isn't much we haven't already seen.

On a separate note... I'm drawing a blank now. Were we given any backstory on Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch? I know 'He's fast and She's Weird'... city destroyed by stark weapons... and I know they weren't called mutants. But was any OTHER explaination given? Inhumans were just starting up? science experiment? Toxic Waste? Or was that just left 'mysterious'?


I think they were confirmed as Inhumans.

Sovereign Court

Nope they got their power from the mind stone.

Liberty's Edge

Hydra science experiment using what they learned from the mind stone. Presumably their angst was what gave them the strength to endure the experimentation.


Feral wrote:
Hydra science experiment using what they learned from the mind stone. Presumably their angst was what gave them the strength to endure the experimentation.

RIGHT!!! Hydra!!!

Though who knows WHAT they had going on... We just found out each leader had some Obelisk pieces... O.O

Not really sure how the mind stone would give THOSE kind of powers... Space or Reality sure,

Well... SW was kind of a mind warper... amongst other things.

Dark Archive

phantom1592 wrote:

Not really sure how the mind stone would give THOSE kind of powers... Space or Reality sure,

Well... SW was kind of a mind warper... amongst other things.

The mind stone did do some mind control, but mostly Loki used it to throw zaps, and Hydra seemed to use it as a power source for their zap guns (much like Red Skull used the Cube, in Cap's first movie). The stones seem pretty versatile, in that respect.

Plus Wanda and Pietro's abilities could be handwaved to have something to do with mental enhancement, him being able to perceive time differently (less 'super-speed' and more 'time slows down for me,' although that's more what the First Class version of Pietro does...), her being able to mess with minds and telekinetically move stuff.

Ultimately, I don't think the writers really thought that far ahead. The scepter wasn't even suggested to be an Infinity Stone, back in the first Avengers movie (and the thought that Thanos would send it away and *lose it* trying to get his hands on another one, just makes him look like the universe's most powerful idiot. Bird in the hand, Thanny, bird in the hand.). And so the 'mind stone' ends up doing the exact same stuff as the Cube (powering zap guns and force fields for Hydra), *and* some other mind-related stuff. Whatever.

The whole Infinity Stones tie-in / Thanos mega-crossover is probably the weakest link in the whole MCU. Where it shines is with the individual characters and characterization, IMO, as well as the writing / dialogue / acting and some of the action sequences.

The whole 'must collect the mcguffins' arc and all the endless 'paced for trade' setup just, IMO, messes with the flow of the actual movies themselves, by tying them into a larger storyline that doesn't make much sense, and isn't particularly interesting. (Thanos. So much yawn.)


IIRC, how the whole mutant/inhuman thing works in the comic MU (or at least most of them): A race called the Celestials tampered with the prehistoric human race, investing them with the potential to develop superpowers (in effect, creating the mutant 'race'). Later, Earth was discovered by the Kree, who learned what the Celestials had done and decided to -run with it?- use that potential to hybridize with Kree genes to create a warrior race, now known as the Inhumans, they could use in one of their ongoing wars.

So, basically, Inhumans are mutants hybridized with the Kree.

How that would play out in the MCU if they were able to use the X-Men, I'm not sure.


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Spiral_Ninja wrote:

IIRC, how the whole mutant/inhuman thing works in the comic MU (or at least most of them): A race called the Celestials tampered with the prehistoric human race, investing them with the potential to develop superpowers (in effect, creating the mutant 'race'). Later, Earth was discovered by the Kree, who learned what the Celestials had done and decided to -run with it?- use that potential to hybridize with Kree genes to create a warrior race, now known as the Inhumans, they could use in one of their ongoing wars.

So, basically, Inhumans are mutants hybridized with the Kree.

How that would play out in the MCU if they were able to use the X-Men, I'm not sure.

I'd say either go with something akin to the initial origin - or flip that idea and have mutants be an aberrant strain of the Inhuman gene that unlocks at puberty without terrigenesis.


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It's also possible Wanda and Pietro were Inhumans, which is why HYDRA's experiments actually resulted in them gaining powers, rather than killing them like everyone else.

Dark Archive

Kalshane wrote:
It's also possible Wanda and Pietro were Inhumans, which is why HYDRA's experiments actually resulted in them gaining powers, rather than killing them like everyone else.

I'm kind of hoping that the stones are just capable of empowering people, and that Wanda and Pietro end up having nothing to do with the Terrigen/Inhumans.

If that's the case, it leaves it open for some more non-Terrigen origins, and also for the stone left in the hands of the Xandarians to perhaps be used as a jumpstart to a super-powered Nova Corps...

Scarab Sages

Well, Hulk and Cap are both super-powered without any known Terrigen/Inhuman genes there, so there is non-inhuman power sources. It's also going to be interesting to see if they are going to keep the radioactive/genetically engineered spider for Spiderman's powers, as he isn't inhuman either.

There is also no basis in reality that explains what Daredevil and Stick is able to do, nor Jessica Jones or Kilgrave. All of whom have no connection to the Inhumans and had their powers before the fish oil dousing.

Liberty's Edge

Same with Luke Cage, Deathlok, and the Abomination.

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