Could a Level 20, Tier 10 Mythic party defeat a god?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

1 to 50 of 91 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>

The text for Mythics says loads along the lines of unimaginable power and effortless might, comparable to gods themselves. Is this just flavour or could a campaign involving deities alongside PCs really work now?

Whatever, I'll just come out and say it: Any way of defeating Rovagug? xD


All the gods could not defeat Rovagug. They just locked him up. Make of that what you will.


Hard to tell, as long as the gods remain without stats.
You may try by reading the stats for the gods from the 3,5 book Deities and Demigods.


True that. :( But if he was weakened from countless millennia in captivity...?

Or alternatively, is there any way at all of working him into a campaign? Perhaps sealing him again, is that playable?


I can't speak to crunch. But as for story/fluff: Yes, 20th level mythic characters could defeat gods. Because that's what mythic heroes do. They dare to challenge the gods. And sometimes, they might even win.


@Gandel This is very good news! Thank you very much, I think I'll have a scour to see if there is a PDF to buy.


Well speaking of Gods.... in 3.5 all Gods where not created equal. There where lower rank deities that a normal level 20 party would have an easy time with(Imhotep was a level 20 Expert). Then there where deities that would auto hit/auto destroy anything with a lower divine rank then them... hense every being other than like 3 other gods.

So ... maybe.


Try with Thor :)

Dark Archive

Rovagug is essentially the Snarl... so no.

In any event, Paizo have said they have no interest in statting the Golarion deities. The most we might get are some heralds or avatars to fight.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

I think that something I heard from a screenwriter would be applicable here.

How do you kill a vampire?

One might think of plenty of ways. Sunlight, garlic, stake through the heart. But the thing is that vampires are works of fiction. Ergo, as a fiction writer, you can have a vampire die in your story any way you want to.

Same thing applies here. If you're the DM and you want your party to slay deities, you can make up some fluff or way to make that sort of thing work.

The Exchange

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Well, as I understand it, Rovagug is imprisoned within Golarion. If the Prime Plane ceases to exist, he might be annihilated along with it. (Admittedly, this goal presents certain technical difficulties.)


Well, food for thought. Serenrae and Asmodeus are two of the oldest deities - Asmodeus being the oldest and most powerful (per the Book of the Damned 1) and they only could lock Rovagug up. I'd say no they can't. Another reason being is for story purposes. No credible threat to the players = a dull game.

Grand Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

No.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Cubid Prism, I would Equate the Book of Dammed to Infernal propaganda.

Is Asmodeus the most powerful god? Well if you ask him he will of course he will say yes.

I think aceDiamond has hit the proverbial nail on the head. If you the GM, and your players want a game where you can kill gods, Rovagug included, then you can.

In your home game you are free to do whatever you like. The Pathfinder Role Playing game was written with the intent of us player (GMs and Players) to make our own stories. If those stories include the death of Rovagug...well all that has to happen is for the GM to put it in the plot of the campaign he makes.

Well thats just my two cents.

I hope it helps.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
toxicpie wrote:

The text for Mythics says loads along the lines of unimaginable power and effortless might, comparable to gods themselves. Is this just flavour or could a campaign involving deities alongside PCs really work now?

Whatever, I'll just come out and say it: Any way of defeating Rovagug? xD

Doesn't hurt to try:) let us know how it turns out:)

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Opening his prison and failing to kill him would really suck.

For everybody.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Artanthos wrote:

Opening his prison and failing to kill him would really suck.

For everybody.

only in his campaign:)

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

The simple answer is, no.

Paizo has repeatedly stated that they will not stat the deities themselves, ala the age-old saying: if it has stats, we can kill it.

They don't /want/ to deal with that scenario. I wouldn't.

You're putting words in the mouth of the text that are not there. It talks about heroes becoming mightier than any other beings on the planet, but that means utterly nothing compared to the power of the gods.

From the intro:

Quote:
Even with such great power, mythic characters are not invulnerable, just more able to deal with the dangers of the world around them. If a mythic character dies, her loss is a great tragedy to the world, as the light of one of its true champions has been extinguished. This is what makes a mythic story exciting: these heroes might fall, just as nonmythic heroes might succumb to lesser threats. And when they do succeed, their victory often comes at a high cost, and usually leaves them scarred.

At the end of the day, you can run whatever fight you want to run. No one will stop you. However, if you want to build a god whose stats are legitimate and scale appropriately to the options presented in the core Paizo material, your adventures will effectively never be high enough level to deal with them.

Now if you want to de-power them and make them something killable by lesser beings, sure, go for it; just be aware that it's NOT the intent of Mythic Adventures to do so.

MA gives you the tools and flavor necessary to create the stories of the people who will define the history and destiny of a planet ala the Whispering Tyrant and Iomadae (pre-ascension); not how to create murder-hobos powerful enough to kill the gods. You're thinking too small.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Maybe if they were epic AND mythic.

Maybe.


From what I understand in Golarion, no they cannot. In other settings or in homebrew though it would of course depend on how your world's gods have their stats and abilities defined. I've never run god-slaying adventurers in any edition and don't see myself doing it in the future but there are stats for 3.5e gods in the deities and demigods book Gandel spoke of and the Legendary Levels books from Little Red Goblin Games do a version of Epic for Pathfinder. They have deity stats and ways of making deities in their Deific Bestiary book. I haven't checked it out myself since I have no interest in it but if you do you should give them a look or talk with people who have used that material before.


Still no.


No. Unless your game allows it, then maybe.

Course, then you still have to deal with the ramifications of your actions, ala the Iron Druid series: just how many Gods can you kill and how fast can you run?

Silver Crusade

I'm pretty sure I read at some point that while you weren't at god slaying level, you were at demigod slaying and demon prince slaying levels. Honestly I like the idea of killing gods, mostly because it would be such an insane level of challenge. Some people want to kill gods because it's cool, others like myself want the ULTIMATE challenge.

But right now it seems like you're not meant to storm Olympus just yet...maybe if you're a wizard though...


I'd say a god might not be kill-able, ever. However the party of mythics weakening a god for say, another god to land a killing blow. That however might be doable. Kill a god's heralds, servants, wreck his plane, tiny tiny things to tip the scale in favor of *insert other god*

Rule it as you will, but lvl 20th/mythic 10 characters are way out of the godslayer league. Maybe if they master out 2-3 classes, along with full on mythic tiers, *then* I'd see them good on the task. But then, just go take the starstone test, become gods yourself and work from it there.


The reason the average person can't kill a god isn't that the god will win the fight. It's that a god is not some creature somewhere whose lair you can travel to, kick in the door, and start hacking away at it. It's a qualitative, not a quantitative issue.


In PF, I think it is easier to destroy planes of existence than it is to kill a deity.


if we are going to go with canon Golarion and official rules, without DM specifically tailoring some way to "depower" Rovagug, than no. Mythic tiers get a normal PC up to about CR 25, so within the range of taking out Demigods. "Full" gods are past CR 30, and Rovagug is probably on the upper end of that scale, whatever that scale is.

The only way to take out Rovagug would thus necessitate the DM creating some sort of storyline or artifact that would depower Rovagug to CR 30ish, or a storyline where PCs help a god take Rovagug down.

Shadow Lodge

Yeah, no. Even the actual gods have a really hard time killing other gods in Golarion, someone imbued with a mere fraction of godlike power probably doesn't stand a chance. It's one of the main reasons the Aroden thing was so frightening: in a world where even lesser gods who were actually attacked and "killed" by other gods still manage to survive (see Ydersius, who's surviving as nothing more than a skull right now), having a very powerful god completely disappear without any reason at all is scary as hell.

But on the other hand, could you fight and even hurt a god? Absolutely. You could help drive them back into their timeless prison or weaken them so they can no longer carry out their dark plan or something. You should probably expect to be erased from existence in the process, of course, but that's the cost of being an enormously powerful hero.


Deities are outside the scope of PF rules and lie firmly in the realm of GM fiat.


Psyren wrote:

Rovagug is essentially the Snarl... so no.

In any event, Paizo have said they have no interest in statting the Golarion deities. The most we might get are some heralds or avatars to fight.

We also weren't supposed to get more base classes, so make of that what you will.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Mortal NPCs have killed deities before...in Golarion...so why not a PC?


Whale_Cancer wrote:
Psyren wrote:

Rovagug is essentially the Snarl... so no.

In any event, Paizo have said they have no interest in statting the Golarion deities. The most we might get are some heralds or avatars to fight.

We also weren't supposed to get more base classes, so make of that what you will.

Where was that said?


Ravingdork wrote:
Mortal NPCs have killed deities before...in Golarion...so why not a PC?

To be clear, mortal NPCs in Golarion have injured and/or permanently wounded deities (with help), but there are no accounts of any mortal slaying a full-scale deity.

There have been circumstances where a Mythic mortal has killed a Demigod but never a full-scale deity.


Daethor wrote:
Whale_Cancer wrote:
Psyren wrote:

Rovagug is essentially the Snarl... so no.

In any event, Paizo have said they have no interest in statting the Golarion deities. The most we might get are some heralds or avatars to fight.

We also weren't supposed to get more base classes, so make of that what you will.
Where was that said?

"Now announcing the Advanced Class Guide!"


I like the idea of pushing Rovagug back with the help of a god NPC/ a weakening item. CR 30, I think I'll go with that, thank you!
How many combatants would be necessary to match/ be a bit lower than 30? There'll be four players, so I was just wondering how many NPCs to add to the final battle.


Scavion wrote:
Daethor wrote:
Whale_Cancer wrote:
Psyren wrote:

Rovagug is essentially the Snarl... so no.

In any event, Paizo have said they have no interest in statting the Golarion deities. The most we might get are some heralds or avatars to fight.

We also weren't supposed to get more base classes, so make of that what you will.
Where was that said?
"Now announcing the Advanced Class Guide!"

No, I'm aware of the Advanced Class Guide. I'm curious as to where it was apparently said that there would be no more base classes.

Shadow Lodge

Cubic Prism wrote:
Well, food for thought. Serenrae and Asmodeus are two of the oldest deities - Asmodeus being the oldest and most powerful (per the Book of the Damned 1) and they only could lock Rovagug up. I'd say no they can't. Another reason being is for story purposes. No credible threat to the players = a dull game.

Oldest doesn't necessarily translate to most powerful.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ravingdork wrote:

Maybe if they were epic AND mythic.

Maybe.

Raving Dork just made a house rule!

*waits for the cracks of doom to appear*


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Killing Rovagug? Destroying destruction? Ending the End? Nah. It is not just a matter of being strong enough to kill him. Nor is the problem that you can't find him. The most serious problem you would face is that Rovagug is the concept of destruction itself. That is why the collected gods could/did not destroy him: They both COULD not, because destruction is a timeless concept, and WOULD not, because creation requires destruction. So they locked him away.

If you do want to work Rovagug into a story, however, you have more options. Say... During the battle with Rovagug, Sarenrae lost something. A part of a divine portfolio, an artifact, whatever. Rovagug took this with him to the core of the world. Now Sarenrae wants it back, now that there are brave enough heroes to climb into Rovagug's prison and fetch it. So, these heroes, at the very pinnacle of their power, need to sneak through the caverns of the prison, quickly before Rovagug awakes from their presence, find the Thingie, and get out, all the while battling various horrible spawn of Rovagug that reacted more quickly to their invasion. This way, they will even get to see Rovagug... which may not be such a brilliant idea after all.


Kthulhu wrote:
Cubic Prism wrote:
Well, food for thought. Serenrae and Asmodeus are two of the oldest deities - Asmodeus being the oldest and most powerful (per the Book of the Damned 1) and they only could lock Rovagug up. I'd say no they can't. Another reason being is for story purposes. No credible threat to the players = a dull game.

But surely the credible threat is defeating Rovagug itself? There's an incentive to triumph (no more evil ever... Kinda) and a real risk of dying in the fight. After Rovagug is defeated, the campaign would end, and any other campaign doesn't have to take it as canon.


Kthulhu wrote:
Cubic Prism wrote:
Well, food for thought. Serenrae and Asmodeus are two of the oldest deities - Asmodeus being the oldest and most powerful (per the Book of the Damned 1) and they only could lock Rovagug up. I'd say no they can't. Another reason being is for story purposes. No credible threat to the players = a dull game.
Oldest doesn't necessarily translate to most powerful.

Pretty sure Pharasma is the oldest, futher she is probably one of the most powerful.


Kthulhu wrote:
Cubic Prism wrote:
Well, food for thought. Serenrae and Asmodeus are two of the oldest deities - Asmodeus being the oldest and most powerful (per the Book of the Damned 1) and they only could lock Rovagug up. I'd say no they can't. Another reason being is for story purposes. No credible threat to the players = a dull game.
Oldest doesn't necessarily translate to most powerful.

No, but I believe that James Jacobs has stated that older deities do tend to be more powerful than new ones in Golarion. It's not a one-to-one correlation, but it is a general trend.

Liberty's Edge

Sissyl wrote:
Killing Rovagug? Destroying destruction? Ending the End? Nah. It is not just a matter of being strong enough to kill him. Nor is the problem that you can't find him. The most serious problem you would face is that Rovagug is the concept of destruction itself. That is why the collected gods could/did not destroy him: They both COULD not, because destruction is a timeless concept, and WOULD not, because creation requires destruction. So they locked him away.

I'm not totally up on lore (it is a cool explanation, but is it established canon?), but could his portfolio fall to another deity? Or could killing him release what was actually imprisoned all those aeons ago (what they actually imprisoned being overwhelming destruction forced into a divine form)?


it realy depends on the gods I have read some discussion that gods could start out to be like lvl 30 but they go up to lvl 100 so it depends to the gods

oh and its just an estimate in comparison to their power not a real lvl

i think iomedae would be one of those lower tiered gods afther she gained god status she might not realy have gained lvl's we dont know on the other hand all the followers might be getting the XP for her lets consider she was lvl 20 when she did the trial.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
LazarX wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:

Maybe if they were epic AND mythic.

Maybe.

Raving Dork just made a house rule!

*waits for the cracks of doom to appear*

lol. Everybody makes house rules. It's just a matter of degree.


Ravingdork wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:

Maybe if they were epic AND mythic.

Maybe.

Raving Dork just made a house rule!

*waits for the cracks of doom to appear*

lol. Everybody makes house rules. It's just a matter of degree.

Enjoying the game tends to be a houserule depending on who you ask.

Liberty's Edge

If the pcs have the power of plot on their side I'm sure they can.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Ravingdork wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:

Maybe if they were epic AND mythic.

Maybe.

Raving Dork just made a house rule!

*waits for the cracks of doom to appear*

lol. Everybody makes house rules. It's just a matter of degree.

i never have, people enjoy my games well enough without me pulling house rules out of thin air whenever it suits me :)


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
captain yesterday wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:

Maybe if they were epic AND mythic.

Maybe.

Raving Dork just made a house rule!

*waits for the cracks of doom to appear*

lol. Everybody makes house rules. It's just a matter of degree.
i never have, people enjoy my games well enough without me pulling house rules out of thin air whenever it suits me :)

Seeing as the rulebook isn't an absolutely clear 10,000 page legal tome, you are making a house rule somewhere, even if you don't realize it.


If I were to stat up full Gods, I would have their CR range from 31-35.
I just figure that CR 35 should be high enough, because I just figure that if a party of 4 Cthulhus somehow existed they should be able to take one down.

1 to 50 of 91 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / General Discussion / Could a Level 20, Tier 10 Mythic party defeat a god? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.