What classes are you most likely to use ONLY AS A DIP?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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In the vein of the other two threads, what classes are you most likely to only use as multiclassing dips? How many levels, and why?


Monk - Master of Many Styles 2 levels. Cheating for feats is worth it.

Rogue - 1 level if I need trapfinding and hate the Ranger for whatever reason.

Fighter - I just find them boring usually, the dip is for extra feats and access to dueling gloves no more than 3-5 levels to get armor and weapon training.(3 if Weapon Master) Also of use to get Armor/Weapon proficiencies and what not if going for Eldritch Knight or the like.


2 levels of MOMS monk for fighters to even out the class. Extra points if you retrain stunning fist using the fighter ability.


1-4 levels of rogue for every fighter, to pick up sneak attack, and a whole slew of class skills, a bump to Reflex saves, and maybe evasion. That extra -1 BAB at 5th level hurts too much, though.

Silver Crusade

I did a PC with a one level dip in Dawnflower Dervish bard. I can't imagine doing that type of bard as the only class, though I do have full bard characters.

Liberty's Edge

Though I love pure Pallies, in building toward an ElK, 2 lvls of Paladin rocks. (1 martial level is needed, the 2nd is for Divine Grace.)


Paladin 2 for myself certainly. Most of the higher level abilities just don't wow me that much.

Silver Crusade

Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
Paladin 2 for myself certainly. Most of the higher level abilities just don't wow me that much.

To me, paladin isn't about the high level abilities. It's about the low level abilities continuing to improve. Lay on Hands gets better with level, and you get more smites per day at higher levels.

Sczarni

Barbarian, one level for fast movement and rage, or two for that plus a rage power and Uncanny Dodge. Especially with some of the archetypes like Urban Barbarian, that can get you a lot of flexibility.


Fromper wrote:
Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
Paladin 2 for myself certainly. Most of the higher level abilities just don't wow me that much.
To me, paladin isn't about the high level abilities. It's about the low level abilities continuing to improve. Lay on Hands gets better with level, and you get more smites per day at higher levels.

Honestly it's usually just the extra save bonus and martial training that excites me.

Silver Crusade

Paladin 2. Divine Grace FTW.

Cleric 1. Domain powers.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Monk and Fighter for bonus feats.


Paladin

Because at the rate the forums are going we will all be playing Synthesist Summoners soon anyway out of a fear of being mocked

Shadow Lodge

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Lamontius wrote:
Because at the rate the forums are going we will all be playing Synthesist Summoners soon anyway out of a fear of being mocked

Pssh. Like that will stop my mockery of you.


Kirth Gersen wrote:
1-4 levels of rogue for every fighter, to pick up sneak attack, and a whole slew of class skills, a bump to Reflex saves, and maybe evasion. That extra -1 BAB at 5th level hurts too much, though.

wouldn't viv alchemist do almost everything you're talking about except for evasion. Plus a whole.lot.more.


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TOZ wrote:
Lamontius wrote:
Because at the rate the forums are going we will all be playing Synthesist Summoners soon anyway out of a fear of being mocked
Pssh. Like that will stop my mockery of you.

man this is why I cry in the shower while drinking a beer

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Lamontius wrote:
TOZ wrote:
Lamontius wrote:
Because at the rate the forums are going we will all be playing Synthesist Summoners soon anyway out of a fear of being mocked
Pssh. Like that will stop my mockery of you.

man this is why I cry in the shower while drinking a beer

Mission Accomplished.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

crawwwwwlinnnnng in my skinnnnn
these wounnnnds
they will not heeeeeeaaaaaalllllll

*sobs*


Monk, Barb, Pally, in that order.


Fromper wrote:
Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
Paladin 2 for myself certainly. Most of the higher level abilities just don't wow me that much.
To me, paladin isn't about the high level abilities. It's about the low level abilities continuing to improve. Lay on Hands gets better with level, and you get more smites per day at higher levels.

You know what's nice about a Lay on Hands that never improves? You feel less guilty when you blow them all on a Radiant Charge. =3


For whatever reason I never splash....just can't bring myself to do it. If I dual class it's even progression. Until the end or I prestige or whatever. I guess it's a knee jerk reaction to past uber cheese builds that used 5 classes and two prestiges to get some sort of better mouse trap.


In order; Monk, at most 2 and master of many styles. The most dip friendly monk right? Fighter 1, probably an archetype like unarmed fighter or unbreakable fighter for feat prerequisites. Inquisitor, I don't think the class is that bad but I'm not a fan of it and I think as a dip for a wisdom based character its great for skills(wisdom to everything! Conversion inquisition and heretic or infiltrator archetypes). Other classes I just don't touch or would consider for more than a dip.


For a skill monkey I like 2 rogue for trap finding and trap sense. The free perception roll when you get within 10' of a trap is way to nice.


Monk, Fighter, Rogue. I could maybe see two levels of Ranger, depending on whatever else I was doing.


Monk (2~4 levels) and Fighter (1~4 levels), of course. Especially the MoMS Monk.

Then Ranger, Barbarian and Paladin. (2~4 levels for all fo them)

But I usually avoid multiclassing anyway, so it's not much of an issue.


The only class I can think of that I would use ONLY for a dip would probably be arcane archer.

'course I'm not really that into multiclassing. Just doesn't usualy do it for me.

- Torger


Monk 2, feats and save boosts
fighter (weapon master 4) for weapon training, gloves of dueling, and weapon specialization with 2 more bonus feats.

Sczarni

Gunslinger. One level gets you a free gun, proficiency in it, the feat to upgrade it and craft ammo, and Quick Clear. The fact that it's full-BAB is just gravy.

Sure you don't get DEX to damage, but if I've got a class ability adding to damage (Ranger's FE, Inquisitor's Bane/Judgments, Fighter's Weapon Training) then it's better to just keep stacking levels in that class. Besides, you're hitting touch AC and your real damage is coming from PBS/Rapid Shot/Deadly Aim anyway.


I'm going to add fighter to my dip-only list. Sadly, bad will save and no reason to pump Wis just does not work at higher levels.


proftobe wrote:
wouldn't viv alchemist do almost everything you're talking about except for evasion. Plus a whole.lot.more.

(Shrugs) Could be. Rogue kind of sucks as a class, but I don't read all the archetypes for all the variant base classes in all the splats.

Sovereign Court

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In no particular order:

Monk (any archetype, even CRB vanilla; for saves and possibly useful bonus feats)
Fighter (for bonus feats and/or armour/shield proficiencies)
Barbarian (for rage and possibly fast movement)
Paladin (for a Charisma-based class)
Dawnflower Dervish Bard (+2 to hit/damage, Dervish Dance for free)
Cleric for wand/scroll access and juicy domain powers.
Gunslinger (for a useful ranged attack option if I lack the ability to hit normal AC)

Shadow Lodge

More than dipping into Witch seems broken.
I like dipping Alchemist
Cavalier is fun to dip for the teamwork feat

Contributor

Fighter (Lore Wardne) is an excellent 2-level dip that nets you all Intelligence skills as class skills, 4 skill points per level, and three feats.

Fighter (Dragoon) is an excellent one-level dip if you want to focus on mounted combat; you probably wanted Mounted Combat and Skill Focus (Ride) anyway.

Sorcerer (Crossblooded) is an excellent one-level dip for any spellcaster as long as you A) pick two arcana that don't scale with sorcerer level (Arcane is an excellent example of one) and B) pick a Sorcerer Spell known that doesn't need a high caster level to be helpful, such as mage armor.

Cavalier can be an excellent two-level dip depending on which Order Abilities you're looking at; Order of the Cockatrice is a perfect example of a dip-able Order.

Rogue can be an excellent dip if you are skill point starved, and ironically enough most of the archetypes that trade Trapfinding are good to dip into because if you're not main-classing a rogue, you're probably not the trap / skills guy anyway.

Gunslinger dip is almost required to use guns in a world where Firearms aren't widespread.

Monk is one of the best dips in the game; two feats, maybe more depending on your archetypes, plus Stunning Fist (or gods, PERFECT STRIKE for the Weapon Adept?), increased unarmed damage, and Flurry of Blows. What's not to love?

Please note that I never said that I would only dip into these classes; I personally don't feel that any class is only good for dipping into, even though multiclassing is my preferred method of building my character.

Silver Crusade

Alexander Augunas wrote:

Fighter (Lore Wardne) is an excellent 2-level dip that nets you all Intelligence skills as class skills, 4 skill points per level, and three feats.

3rd level of Lore Warden gets you a +2 on CMB and CMD, which is great for a maneuver focused PC. Given that one of your three bonus feats is Combat Expertise, which is a prereq for some of the maneuver stuff, and it's a great dip if you're doing maneuvers.


1) Fighter 1-2
2) Ranger 2
3) Barbarian 1-2
4) Paladin 2
5) Monk 1-2

Basically, martial classes are worth dipping out of and into, spell casting classes are neither.


Cleric (Domains and some spell ability),
Paladin (2 levels = Huge number of benefits),
Barbarian (Rage plus rage powers),
Fighter (armour, weapons and feats - also see Lore Warden above),
Sorcerer (if going for Dragon Disciple) and
Bard (for buffs and colour).

But saying that I don't multi-class/dip very often.


Bard, (for 0th level spells and luck bonuses to ANYTHING) and Oracle (for 0th level spells and Charisma to AC/Reflex), but only for a Synthesist Summoner.
Otherwise Rogue (skills), Fighter (Feat), or Ranger (Flavor).


Inquisitor (heretic)......

For my switch hitter ranger.....

.....and also rogue.

Liberty's Edge

Wizard. Too powerful to completely deny (well, I have so far), but, I'm lactose intolerant.


proftobe wrote:
2 levels of MOMS monk for fighters to even out the class. Extra points if you retrain stunning fist using the fighter ability.

Sadly you cannot retrain stunning fist, you can only retain the bonus fighter feats, not any others.

Of the ones not stated so far
Barbarian 2: titan mauler so I can dual wield them big cleavers :)
Barbarian x: to gain access to furious finish
Rogue 1: thug for the perfect complement to any intimidate focused build.
Fighter 4: viking to gain access to those raging goodies without the alignment restriction.
Alchemist 2: mindchemist for the knowledge skill monkeys, internal for breath mastery, vi/beast for the melee guys, discovery is very versitile.
Synthisist 1: for easy pounce
Oracle 1: so much you can do with mysteries
Sorcerer 1: crossblooded orc/dragon for blaster casters
Beastbond cavalier 1: for exotic mount
Monk sohei 1/2: for easy mounted feats

Those are all mostly 1-2 level dips and can be pretty good


Remember, the question is about classes you'd only dip. Are you really saying you'd only take barbarian or alchemist or oracle as a dip?


Gobo Horde wrote:
proftobe wrote:
2 levels of MOMS monk for fighters to even out the class. Extra points if you retrain stunning fist using the fighter ability.

Sadly you cannot retrain stunning fist, you can only retain the bonus fighter feats, not any others.

Of the ones not stated so far
Barbarian 2: titan mauler so I can dual wield them big cleavers :)
Barbarian x: to gain access to furious finish
Rogue 1: thug for the perfect complement to any intimidate focused build.
Fighter 4: viking to gain access to those raging goodies without the alignment restriction.
Alchemist 2: mindchemist for the knowledge skill monkeys, internal for breath mastery, vi/beast for the melee guys, discovery is very versitile.
Synthisist 1: for easy pounce
Oracle 1: so much you can do with mysteries
Sorcerer 1: crossblooded orc/dragon for blaster casters
Beastbond cavalier 1: for exotic mount
Monk sohei 1/2: for easy mounted feats

Those are all mostly 1-2 level dips and can be pretty good

nowhere does it say fighter feats it says bonus feats so RAW a fighter could retrain any bonus feat. From any class into a fighter bonus feat even SKR agrees. Now having said that I can see it being houseruled.

Dark Archive

THUG ROGUE

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
proftobe wrote:
nowhere does it say fighter feats it says bonus feats so RAW a fighter could retrain any bonus feat. From any class into a fighter bonus feat even SKR agrees. Now having said that I can see it being houseruled.

Link? Even if Sean agrees, I don't see that flying with some GMs.


Bonus Feats: At 1st level, and at every even level thereafter, a fighter gains a bonus feat in addition to those gained from normal advancement (meaning that the fighter gains a feat at every level). These bonus feats must be selected from those listed as combat feats, sometimes also called “fighter bonus feats.”

Upon reaching 4th level, and every four levels thereafter (8th, 12th, and so on), a fighter can choose to learn a new bonus feat in place of a bonus feat he has already learned. In effect, the fighter loses the bonus feat in exchange for the new one. The old feat cannot be one that was used as a prerequisite for another feat, prestige class, or other ability. A fighter can only change one feat at any given level and must choose whether or not to swap the feat at the time he gains a new bonus feat for the level.

You did not get Stunning Fist from the bonus feats ability of the fighter class, and so you cannot retrain it with the bonus feats ability of the fighter class.


Tarantula wrote:

Bonus Feats: At 1st level, and at every even level thereafter, a fighter gains a bonus feat in addition to those gained from normal advancement (meaning that the fighter gains a feat at every level). These bonus feats must be selected from those listed as combat feats, sometimes also called “fighter bonus feats.”

Upon reaching 4th level, and every four levels thereafter (8th, 12th, and so on), a fighter can choose to learn a new bonus feat in place of a bonus feat he has already learned. In effect, the fighter loses the bonus feat in exchange for the new one. The old feat cannot be one that was used as a prerequisite for another feat, prestige class, or other ability. A fighter can only change one feat at any given level and must choose whether or not to swap the feat at the time he gains a new bonus feat for the level.

You did not get Stunning Fist from the bonus feats ability of the fighter class, and so you cannot retrain it with the bonus feats ability of the fighter class.

Dude, its in your own post. It says bonus feats. Not fighter bonus feats. Nowhere in there does it say he has to get the bonus feat from fighter levels, and there are tons of classes that have the class feature "bonus feat" though stunning fist isn't one.


Tarantula wrote:

Bonus Feats: At 1st level, and at every even level thereafter, a fighter gains a bonus feat in addition to those gained from normal advancement (meaning that the fighter gains a feat at every level). These bonus feats must be selected from those listed as combat feats, sometimes also called “fighter bonus feats.”

Upon reaching 4th level, and every four levels thereafter (8th, 12th, and so on), a fighter can choose to learn a new bonus feat in place of a bonus feat he has already learned. In effect, the fighter loses the bonus feat in exchange for the new one. The old feat cannot be one that was used as a prerequisite for another feat, prestige class, or other ability. A fighter can only change one feat at any given level and must choose whether or not to swap the feat at the time he gains a new bonus feat for the level.

You did not get Stunning Fist from the bonus feats ability of the fighter class, and so you cannot retrain it with the bonus feats ability of the fighter class.

once again it doesn't say fighter bonus feat in the description. In the description its just bonus feat so by RAW maybe not RAI its ANY bonus feat. Also if you read the monk class stunning fist is a bonus feat so it works. Like I said I can see a.lot of GMS going hell no but there's nothing in the text of the ability that stops it.


Look at the header.
Fighter
Class Features
Bonus Feats:

At level 1, and even levels, fighters gain a bonus feat. This is because of their "Bonus Feats" class feature.

Additionally, at levels 4, 8, 12, 16, 20 a fighter can swap one of his bonus feats (from the fighter class feature) for a different bonus feat he could have picked (from the fighter class feature).

It does not say you can pick from any bonus feat you have ever received anywhere. It is only referring to bonus feats received from the fighter class ability of "bonus feats".


Tarantula wrote:

Look at the header.

Fighter
Class Features
Bonus Feats:

At level 1, and even levels, fighters gain a bonus feat. This is because of their "Bonus Feats" class feature.

Additionally, at levels 4, 8, 12, 16, 20 a fighter can swap one of his bonus feats (from the fighter class feature) for a different bonus feat he could have picked (from the fighter class feature).

It does not say you can pick from any bonus feat you have ever received anywhere. It is only referring to bonus feats received from the fighter class ability of "bonus feats".

It does not say from the fighter class feature. It says bonus feats. Wizards get the bonus feat class feature.

It specifically calls out bonus feats, not fighter bonus feats. You're literally just making things up and sticking them in there to fit how you feel it should be. They're not in there even if you feel they should be.


Tarantula wrote:

Look at the header.

Fighter
Class Features
Bonus Feats:

At level 1, and even levels, fighters gain a bonus feat. This is because of their "Bonus Feats" class feature.

Additionally, at levels 4, 8, 12, 16, 20 a fighter can swap one of his bonus feats (from the fighter class feature) for a different bonus feat he could have picked (from the fighter class feature).

It does not say you can pick from any bonus feat you have ever received anywhere. It is only referring to bonus feats received from the fighter class ability of "bonus feats".

if it was written the way that you rewrote it you'd be correct. But its not the ability is mentioned in the second paragraph. It may be RAI but without a FAQ the text allows it.

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