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A quick note: there is, in fact, some Dev commentary on this spell.Despite the number of rules questions he answers, James Jacobs is not a developer. He's a great source of Golarion info and GMing advice, but he is not a rules guy, and he says it himself.
That said...so what is the order of precedence then?
RAW obviously trumps anything else...even DEV input unless it gets officially errata.
FAQ material
Dev input
JJ and other paizo staff
Individual GM calls when NOTHING else exists.
That is the order for me in PFS in anycase. For home games, reverse the order ;) .
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RAW obviously trumps anything else...even DEV input unless it gets officially errata.You know, I was about to bring up the "official messageboard clarifications are binding" rule from the Guide, but then I realized that since it's a rule, written in the Guide, that makes it RAW, so following "dev input" over the RAW would, in fact, be RAW itself, in PFS...
Okay, I'm going to bed before that train of thought manages to hurt my head...
Haha...I made somebody's head hurt (even if this one was inadvertent)...day complete.
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That could save quite a bit of money, and the strength damage would be gone before the next secenerioHmmmmm. This is quite a nifty spell. I'll have to pick it up next session I go to.
"Who wants me to cast masterwork transformation on their stuff after the game?"
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Hmmmmm. This is quite a nifty spell. I'll have to pick it up next session I go to.
"Who wants me to cast masterwork transformation on their stuff after the game?"
Remember you can only have one masterwork transformation per character that can carry over from session to session in PFS. For example, you can't have the spell on your armor and your weapon, so if you want them both to be masterwork you still have to shell out the money for all but one. (Obviously, you should shell out for the armor in this case, as the weapon's masterwork cost is more.)
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Remember you can only have one masterwork transformation per character that can carry over from session to session in PFS. For example, you can't have the spell on your armor and your weapon, so if you want them both to be masterwork you still have to shell out the money for all but one. (Obviously, you should shell out for the armor in this case, as the weapon's masterwork cost is more.)Hmmmmm. This is quite a nifty spell. I'll have to pick it up next session I go to.
"Who wants me to cast masterwork transformation on their stuff after the game?"
However, once you magically enhance the new masterwork item, it no longer counts against your mwk transformation limit, and you can have the other item taken care of then too...
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Sniggevert, do you have a source for that? That isn't my understanding. I've understood that once you magically enhance a masterwork item, your masterwork transformation is locked in.
It's also linked from Mike's compiled rulings stickied post.
EDIT: Note, I've never actually used the spell, nor do I really know the particulars about it. This is just one of those rulings that stuck with me for some reason.
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Just thought this was an interesting tid bit worth adding to the thread. While reading Rise of the Runelord Anniversary edition, on page 364 we find Karzoug the Claimer owning a wand of blood money. Now I wonder if it was intended to be used to help power some of his spells. Probably not, but it still makes me wonder.
Just thought this was an interesting tid bit worth adding to the thread. While reading Rise of the Runelord Anniversary edition, on page 364 we find Karzoug the Claimer owning a wand of blood money. Now I wonder if it was intended to be used to help power some of his spells. Probably not, but it still makes me wonder.
A Metamagic rod of quicken solves the action economy issue, and is worth having anyway.
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Reservoir of physical prowess + blood money = congratulations, you have infinite free spells in a limited manner in PFS.
I have no idea what you mean, neither of those gives any number of spells let alone infinite.
As far as weather or not the spell should be banned, I have to ask why. Yes it's a fairly powerful spell but even with the chance of using it with raise dead it's not gamebreaking.
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I dug into this myself .. and in the CRB under casting a spell all it says are the Components are Consumed "During the process of casting the spell" which leaves a lot to the imagination of when "During" takes place
I think I agree that it shouldn't be Wandable
reading wand description "Usually standard action (unless casting time is longer tha a round)
Reservoir of physical prowess + blood money = congratulations, you have infinite free spells in a limited manner in PFS.
Looked at this as well ... reservoir uses standard actions ... action Economy starts getting really messy ... and it only saves you 8 points on the blood Money at best
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There are ways to refill the reservoir without actually further injuring yourself during a scenario. The reservoir, by the way, is assumed to begin fill at the start of every session. As the infinite spells bit; it's extremely difficult to run out of spells on a correctly used sorcerer. What the blood money/reservoir combination does is allow you to completely skirt material costs for the duration of most scenarios.
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There are ways to refill the reservoir without actually further injuring yourself during a scenario. The reservoir, by the way, is assumed to begin fill at the start of every session. As the infinite spells bit; it's extremely difficult to run out of spells on a correctly used sorcerer. What the blood money/reservoir combination does is allow you to completely skirt material costs for the duration of most scenarios.
Hardly anywhere close to infinite spells, even if one somehow had Blood Money as an at will spell like ability.
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Oh no someone saved 200 go. Pardon me while I roll around on this huge pile of gold from playing up...:)
It can get pretty expensive if you consistently cast spells with particularly pricey components. The money you save will add up pretty fast. ... And the money you get from playing up got nerfed quite hard. =P
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I think the spell Blood Money should be banned from society play. Players are avoiding the material costs on everything just with a single charge of a first level wand. Today they had to use a whole 3 charges to cast raise dead and two restorations, with a total of 1210 gold for the services.
It is overpowered and skews the expected expenditures over the course of the character.
There's several things wrong with how your players were using this spell:
School transmutation; Level magus 1, sorcerer/wizard 1, witch 1
CASTING
Casting Time 1 swift action
Components V, SEFFECT
Range 0 ft.
Effect 1 material component
Duration InstantaneousDESCRIPTION
You cast blood money just before casting another spell. As part of this spell's casting, you must cut one of your hands, releasing a stream of blood that causes you to take 1d6 points of damage. When you cast another spell in that same round, your blood transforms into one material component of your choice required by that second spell. Even valuable components worth more than 1 gp can be created, but creating such material components requires an additional cost of 1 point of Strength damage, plus a further point of damage for every full 500 gp of the component's value (so a component worth 500–999 gp costs a total of 2 points, 1,000–1,500 costs 3, etc.). You cannot create magic items with blood money.For example, a sorcerer with the spell stoneskin prepared could cast blood money to create the 250 gp worth of diamond dust required by that spell, taking 1d6 points of damage and 1 point of Strength damage in the process.
Material components created by blood money transform back into blood at the end of the round if they have not been used as a material component. Spellcasters who do not have blood cannot cast blood money, and those who are immune to Strength damage (such as undead spellcasters) cannot use blood money to create valuable material components.
I don't agree with those saying it can't be used with spells that have a longer casting time. If it requires a component to cast a spell, then the blood has been used as a material component. Its entire consumption is irrelevant due to that "if" which would effectively allow to blood to persist as a component once a spell is being cast.
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hmm i dont get why folks keep saying its an expensive book just to get the spell rise of the runelords chapter 5 pg59 i mean the pdf is only 14 dollars not that bad lol
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hmm i dont get why folks keep saying its an expensive book just to get the spell rise of the runelords chapter 5 pg59 i mean the pdf is only 14 dollars not that bad lolThat book isn't legal. This one is the legal source.
yeah i realized my mistake after looking at the page, lol i was going by the Archives of nethys that said the spell was in there lol
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So have you figured out what creature you would have to turn into to have a 52 strength so you can use blood money to cast Wish spells for free? (possibly out-of-scope for pathfinder until retirement characters get to 18th level).
(1) Gate in a Titan
(2) Quickened energy drain to debuff Titan's will save (using a Staff of the Master)(3) persistent magic jar to possess Titan. A witch companion is helpful here!
(4) Cast form of the dragon III while possessing Titan, raising strength to 55
(5) Cast blood money
(6) Cast wish
(7) Dodge GM's coffee mug as it hurls towards you.
Not that I would ever do such a thing.
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(1) Gate in a Titan
(2) Quickened energy drain to debuff Titan's will save (using a Staff of the Master)
(3) persistent magic jar to possess Titan. A witch companion is helpful here!
(4) Cast form of the dragon III while possessing Titan, raising strength to 55
(5) Cast blood money
(6) Cast wish
(7) Dodge GM's coffee mug as it hurls towards you.Not that I would ever do such a thing.
"As a sorcerer, your options might be slightly more limited. . .however, I prefer to simply greater planar binding an elder earth elemental. Upon it's arrival, a persistent magic jar, followed by heart of the mammoth and form of the dragon III are more than sufficient.
A simple heal spell to repair the creature's sapped vitality, thanks to Magaambyan studies, coupled with soothing words before returning it to it's home should smooth over any potential lingering frustrations."
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Yes, a wand of Blood Money and a quickened spell should work together, but remember that some expensive spells like restoration and raise dead can't be quickened.My necromancer won't care about those spells :P
You can't quicken any spell that takes longer than 1 round to cast...so it makes it kind of pointless for this combo I would think...
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If you are looking for free spells my Razmirian Priest Sorcerer character carries a number of scrolls which have expensive material components which allow him to provide effects at a huge discount.
1700gp on a scroll of restoration which is never used up on casting is probably the prime example although he has just hit 12th and I am looking at buying a Raise Dead scroll for Eyes of the Ten to provide free resurrections.
Not to mention the ability to ignore lesser material components based on the value of your holy symbol. Just get a Mithril Holy Symbol for 500gp and cast Stoneskin without paying anything further.
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Not to mention the ability to ignore lesser material components based on the value of your holy symbol. Just get a Mithril Holy Symbol for 500gp and cast Stoneskin without paying anything further.If you are looking for free spells my Razmirian Priest Sorcerer character carries a number of scrolls which have expensive material components which allow him to provide effects at a huge discount.
1700gp on a scroll of restoration which is never used up on casting is probably the prime example although he has just hit 12th and I am looking at buying a Raise Dead scroll for Eyes of the Ten to provide free resurrections.
Is that in a book someplace? most expensive one Ive seen is Gold for 100.
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Is that in a book someplace? most expensive one Ive seen is Gold for 100.Not to mention the ability to ignore lesser material components based on the value of your holy symbol. Just get a Mithril Holy Symbol for 500gp and cast Stoneskin without paying anything further.If you are looking for free spells my Razmirian Priest Sorcerer character carries a number of scrolls which have expensive material components which allow him to provide effects at a huge discount.
1700gp on a scroll of restoration which is never used up on casting is probably the prime example although he has just hit 12th and I am looking at buying a Raise Dead scroll for Eyes of the Ten to provide free resurrections.
It doesn't matter because the max gold limit for False Focus is 100 GP anyway, however non-weapon/armor can be made mithral for 500 gp/lb.
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Blood money violates the rule of not allowing character wealth manipulation within society play.
How it's still legal is far beyond logic.
In my opinion (and that is one of a min-maxer), the spell is not as bad as all that in practice. It's far worse in theory than in standard use, at least until you are are the level of magic which is at the end of your non-seeker career.
In no way does it add to your WBL. It simply allows you to overcome some spells concerns which would otherwise eat into your WBL. Even with blood money, my wizard still had nearly 10,000 gp spent on spell focus items.
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Have you ever sat at a table where a necromancer used blood money casts to get free animate deads?Blood money violates the rule of not allowing character wealth manipulation within society play.
How it's still legal is far beyond logic.
In my opinion (and that is one of a min-maxer), the spell is not as bad as all that in practice. It's far worse in theory than in standard use, at least until you are are the level of magic which is at the end of your non-seeker career.
In no way does it add to your WBL. It simply allows you to overcome some spells concerns which would otherwise eat into your WBL. Even with blood money, my wizard still had nearly 10,000 gp spent on spell focus items.
I'm on the fence about this one, so I won't argue one way or another on blood money as a whole. But I will say this: Undone, I feel your argument helps the legality of blood money.
With animate dead, you're supposed to be able to keep your undead minions. The structure of PFS disallows keeping those minions, creating an extra cost that unfairly burdens necromancers (which ARE legal, like it or not). With blood money, you nearly eliminate that cost.
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Animate dead's power level aside animate dead suffers the same major issue the master summoner does. It takes too long. It takes a while to stat up the monsters you steal and then it takes longer next encounter, and longer, and longer...
I'm on the fence about this one, so I won't argue one way or another on blood money as a whole. But I will say this: Undone, I feel your argument helps the legality of blood money.
With animate dead, you're supposed to be able to keep your undead minions. The structure of PFS disallows keeping those minions, creating an extra cost that unfairly burdens necromancers (which ARE legal, like it or not). With blood money, you nearly eliminate that cost.
Let's not get off topic with yet another animate dead debate. How long it takes to generate stats for animated dead is not relevant to whether Blood Money should remain in the campaign.