The Big line:
I am a sore loser and I hate to be pushed over with ease by my DM overpowered "boss battles". I try really hard to calm down, take it with a grain of salt, but frankly I need advice on how to cope with my PC getting his rear-end being kicked by post epic encounter CRs (APL 4 vs. CR 8).
I am not trying to find a miracle solution here and I understand that I should be more open minded about the whole issue, I just want to see how other people deal with this kind of issues with their PCs.
The fine details (read if you want the extra info):
Playing a custom world campaign, 15 point buy, core rule book only.
The party consist of a cleric (kind of new to the game) , wizard, ranger/rogue, rogue and finally me the fighter, all of us level 5. We use a rotating cast, the campaign is very modular and it allow us to play with all kind of group configurations, that is allowing us to play if a player is unavailable. I do not know if it's my fighter build (falshion specialist) but we usually plow through most dungeons with ease (last session I took care of 3 ogres by myself).
My DM, however, as a nasty habit, he often make us face NPCs that are "important" to his story, you know the awesome character that basically has his own cut-scene when you see him for the first time. Half the party got incinerated after the second session because we "dared" barge in his room and shot everything we had at him (The DM later confirmed that we should not have harmed him and that we were only supposed to face his right hand man)
Other examples are: A ranger that sliced my throat using a crit card, a rogue that had improved faint and basically put my fighter unconscious in 2 rounds, a fight involving a blind monk and a large changeling. Every-time we almost get TPK but then to add humiliation to injury he pull his punches! I feel that at least he should suffer the consequences of his actions (unbalanced fights) by making the TPK happen.
I am tired of NPCs being always the coolest cats in the hood and us being simple witness to their awesomeness while they run away laughing.
How as a player am supposed to have fun with that? I talked to the DM and he seam to have a hard time understanding my point of view.
I love this group and I want to fix things on my end, right now my list of option are:
- Joining the bad guys since they are so awesome.
- Simply make my character leave every time one of those NPCs show up.
- Launch a suicide attack next time the party encounter one of those guys.
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Two options, as far as I can see:
1) Talk to the DM about how it is boring for PCs to lose the spotlight to NPCs. I think this point will be echoed by many, in which case you can direct your DM to this thread.
2) Find another DM.
Try not to do either of the options you gave. Instead try to convince the DM to allow more sources like the Advanced Player's Guide or Adventurer's Armory or even Ultimate Magic. I think that either your party isn't playing right (Like avoiding Role Playing or Combat all the time) or the DM isn't doing something right.
I agree with Whale.
Changeling isn't core rulebook, among other examples posted.
However, I'm personally a big fan of building in a death option where possible with such GMs.
First recommendation: Cleric, Neutral diety / whatever lets you take the Repose domain. Second: convince one of the players to make a buddy cleric with the same domain. Tag team via domain ability, 3rd PC administers coup de grace. Manu Weasel Dance. Profit!!
Third: does the GM do Magic Mart? If so, CL 18 scrolls of contingency, a heavy investment in Use Magic Device, a decent supply of onyx, and hanging create undead (mummy) in that contingency = when you die, you Mumm-Ra on his happy rear end with lots more hit points *at the moment of death*. Bonus points for developing an incense of meditation addiction.
When the bloodshed and table flipping is over, tell him to be glad that he's not running 3.5.
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As it was suggested up thread, talk....perhaps talk to your other party members see how they feel. you might not be the only one who feels they are observing and are unimportant in the story.
Talk to the GM. Perhaps if other players feel as you, it might make an impression on the GM.
I hope this helps,
ELyas
I am tired of NPCs being always the coolest cats in the hood and us being simple witness to their awesomeness while they run away laughing.
How as a player am supposed to have fun with that? I talked to the DM and he seam to have a hard time understanding my point of view.I love this group and I want to fix things on my end...
It sounds to me that the DM is a little too fond of the idea that the villain gets away the first couple of times, before ultimately being defeated in a big, climactic finale. That works well in comic books and movies, but is tough to pull off in an RPG (in my experience anyhow). It seems to me that you always end up with the player's "ruining" the plot by cleverly killing the baddie and preventing his escape, or the DM appears to be railroading the players (either by nearly killing them and then pulling his punches, as here or by the players being rescued with some Deus ex machina). I would echo the comments above to present your perspective on this. Maybe he's just overusing a plot device/scenario - that's an easy habit to get into as a DM.
.Leaving that aside and focussing on the "fix things my end" comment. Perhaps you should begin to take the long view - essentially buy into the meta-plot and accept that the baddie will do his speeach, out awesome you all and then sail off into the sunset. If your response is to do some research, track him down, prepare appropriately and then get your revenge....maybe it will seem less that you are in their shadow and more that you win in the long run against the overly confident mastervillain.
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Talk to the GM. Don't go bezerk (IC or OOC), don't become passive-agressive, just talk to the GM.
It's a game. You're not having fun. So something is wrong.
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If I read OP correctly, not all of these NPCs are villains. There is an unfortunate tendency amongst less experienced DMs to create DMPCs or DMNPCs (NPCs the DM identifies with and gets a kick out of seeing them do awesome things). While I generally differ to each group as to what is a desirable play stye, this sort of thing is (IMHO) universally bad.
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Every-time we almost get TPK but then to add humiliation to injury he pull his punches! I feel that at least he should suffer the consequences of his actions (unbalanced fights) by making the TPK happen.
If hating this phenomenon is wrong, I don't wanna be right.
Seriously, I hate, hate, hate when GMs do this.
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If I read OP correctly, not all of these NPCs are villains. There is an unfortunate tendency amongst less experienced DMs to create DMPCs or DMNPCs (NPCs the DM identifies with and gets a kick out of seeing them do awesome things). While I generally differ to each group as to what is a desirable play stye, this sort of thing is (IMHO) universally bad.
Ah, I had assumed it was predominantly villains.
There's not much you can do if the DM populates his world with people "like you but better". I guess embrace the role of lackey/sidekick, but although I quite enjoy playing another PC's lackey, I think I'd find it hard to maintain if the big hero was an NPC.
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Me personally i would have quite a while ago. If u want to continue on have a serious discussion with the DM about the problem. If it continues tell him mid combat and leave. Some people out there are like ur DM. Those people usually fudge dice in there favor as well. If ur gonna make a new character in order to cope id go for defensive fighter using a shield and jack up ur ac to as high as u ca muster. If he hits u while ur on the defensive more than 1ce or gets a confirmed crit on u then u know he is fudging dice roles as well to make his characters, im not gonna say NPCs because at this point he views those characters as his, better than the players. No one wants to play with some one like that.
I'm assuming that the DM may be creating these characters, using standard tactics instead of NPC tables, generally, NPCs and PCs of the same level usually have a difference in their power, with the PC being the stronger of the two. Basically put, you're DM may be using old PCs that have died in other campaigns, or is using totally over-powered NPCs. Ask him to see a character he is using or has used for your campaign.
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I find that in most cases, a GM who is behaving in this way probably just needs to get out from behind the screen and play a character of their own.
The Big line:
I am a sore loser and I hate to be pushed over with ease by my DM overpowered "boss battles". I try really hard to calm down, take it with a grain of salt, but frankly I need advice on how to cope with my PC getting his rear-end being kicked by post epic encounter CRs (APL 4 vs. CR 8).
My DM, however, as a nasty habit, he often make us face NPCs that are "important" to his story, you know the awesome character that basically has his own cut-scene when you see him for the first time. Half the party got incinerated after the second session because we "dared" barge in his room and shot everything we had at him (The DM later confirmed that we should not have harmed him and that we were only supposed to face his right hand man)
How did that happen? Was he a much higher-level mage? Because it's possible the PCs simply stumbled into a fight they couldn't match. Please note that it's really hard for PCs to know how powerful an NPC is (unless it's something really obvious, like a dragon).
In my very first Dark Sun 4e session, I had created three encounters for the day. However, the PCs managed to drag two of them together. The end result was a much harder fight.
Other examples are: A ranger that sliced my throat using a crit card,I'm only really familiar with Pathfinder core rules. What is a crit card?
a rogue that had improved faint and basically put my fighter unconscious in 2 roundsWhile there's always the possibility that the rogue was outrageously overleveled, overstatted or overequipped, that's simply a rogue ability. (Also, rogues have very weak defenses against magic, as long as you're not trying to throw Lightning Bolts at the rogue.)
a fight involving a blind monk and a large changeling.How did that work? Aren't blind monks weaker than regular monks, who are ... weak? And what is a large changeling?
Every-time we almost get TPK but then to add humiliation to...
The crit card deck is a deck of card with random critical effect, it's a Paizo product, you basically draw any amount of card depending on your crit multiplier (usually 1) then chose an effect.
Now, Where to start?
At level 2, a party consisting of a new to the game cleric, a min/maxer trying some weird druid build (from what I understood he would be only useful around level 5), a necromancy focused sorcerer and me the fighter had for mission to assault a small cult in a back water town. Everything goes relatively well, we are able to save a severely wounded (tortured) spy that was working for us, managed to take most of the guards, sub-cleric of said cult with ease. Main strategy was bursting in a room, throwing javelins at people (usually killing non armored people in one hit), using a few lasting support spells here and there. Then we reach the last room of this small complex, see that big door and tell ourselves, "let's do this we get in there and we finish the job".
I rolled a natural 20, crit on my javelin, hit the hooded figure in the face for about 18 dmg. Next thing we know the party take about 32 points of fire DMG from a breath attack. The DM told us we were only supposed to fight his right hand man but that since we attacked the guy he was forced to use his dragon blooded sorcerer breath attack. The cleric rolled a natural 20 on her saving throw and it's the only reason she survived, the sorcerer and the druid did not get that luck, I was still somewhat alive at -11. We woke up in jail and found a way our somehow.
Jump later to level 3, small side-quest where we meet this thief band leader, the min/maxer dude decided to switch to wizard, the noob cleric is still there and my severely disfigured fighter (Healed naturally most of the fire damage from that breath attack) One issue not previously stated is that the min/maxer is, since the death of his previous PC, a chicken, he will run away at the slightest sign of trouble. Anyway the GM did not like my 24 AC at level 3 and decided that I should be thought a lesson, enter super awesome roguish NPC able to feint me and deal about 1d3 + 3d6 + 2 dmg, and also he was able to use spring attack. The wizard ran away and the cleric was knocked unconscious, same for my fighter. We managed to escape but of course the dude had a super awesome exit and collapsed his escape tunnel.
Here now at level 5, the chicken wizard like I love to call him, the cleric and the good old fighter decide to pursue the rumor that a doppelganger is controlling a tribe of ogres in the nearby mountain, we have a flawless run, by flawless I mean not 1 hit point of damage caused by the enemy. We DECIMATE them, the cleric is not a noob anymore, she spam hold person, the wizard chain cast haste and glitterdust, I cleave at least once every 2 rounds do around 20 dmg per swing. We arrive at the last room of the complex, that weird monk wearing a headband over his eyes and a ogre next to him. The wizard manage to grease the ogre weapon out of his hands, but TADA! He now had vital strike and claws that dish around 25 dmg per round, + that monk manage to stun fist me, (dropping my weapon), almost one shot our cleric down in one combo. I got lucky and with 3 HP left I killed the supercharged large doppelganger. The monk ran away, once again forbidding us to exact any sense of victory or revenge. The DM slipped that the monk had true sight 30 feet, negating a key strategy we used until this point, the invisible fighter!
And this is only the tip of the iceberg.
All NPC mentioned were hostile enemies and performed horrible acts against nearby human settlements. Most of them are linked from close or far away to some sort of dragon cult.
Action economy is not a thing when you have a overpowered enemies that make most their saves and can one-shot anyone in the party except the fighter. Also bear in mind we have 15 buy point *low* magic campaign and core rule book only. I knew what I was getting into day 1, it was a back to basic game, however now I just want to power game all the time, feeling powerless left me with a thirst to play the most broken class/combos I can think off.
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I find that in most cases, a GM who is behaving in this way probably just needs to get out from behind the screen and play a character of their own.
It also sounds like that's where the GM would rather be. GMs aren't supposed to be eligible for Best Actor. Supporting only.
I find that in most cases, a GM who is behaving in this way probably just needs to get out from behind the screen and play a character of their own.It also sounds like that's where the GM would rather be. GMs aren't supposed to be eligible for Best Actor. Supporting only.
Aye. I'm always a proponent that all players should be GMs to gain new perspective on "the other side of the screen, and all GMs should be players so they don't lose perspective when they run things.
A low magic campaign where you face enemies at level 5 with truesight? Btw, truesight is useless if you're blind. Most people aren't blind that's why the spell is all "you see this, you see that."
Yeah, sounds like a GM with a power trip. If there's any guessing you'll probably face these guys again at some point probably all at once while you fight the end dragon. Good luck!
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a fight involving a blind monk and a large changeling.How did that work? Aren't blind monks weaker than regular monks, who are ... weak? And what is a large changeling?
It was Lee Sin The Blind Monk...
If I read OP correctly, not all of these NPCs are villains. There is an unfortunate tendency amongst less experienced DMs to create DMPCs or DMNPCs (NPCs the DM identifies with and gets a kick out of seeing them do awesome things). While I generally differ to each group as to what is a desirable play stye, this sort of thing is (IMHO) universally bad.
There's also the possibility that the encounters are not meant to be fought but talked through. Not all NPCs are enemies after all, and I have had a fair few new players assume they had to attack everything.
However...
Now, Where to start?
At level 2, a party consisting of a new to the game cleric, a min/maxer trying some weird druid build (from what I understood he would be only useful around level 5), a necromancy focused sorcerer and me the fighter had for mission to assault a small cult in a back water town. Everything goes relatively well, we are able to save a severely wounded (tortured) spy that was working for us, managed to take most of the guards, sub-cleric of said cult with ease. Main strategy was bursting in a room, throwing javelins at people (usually killing non armored people in one hit), using a few lasting support spells here and there. Then we reach the last room of this small complex, see that big door and tell ourselves, "let's do this we get in there and we finish the job".
I rolled a natural 20, crit on my javelin, hit the hooded figure in the face for about 18 dmg. Next thing we know the party take about 32 points of fire DMG from a breath attack. The DM told us we were only supposed to fight his right hand man but that since we attacked the guy he was forced to use his dragon blooded sorcerer breath attack. The cleric rolled a natural 20 on her saving throw and it's the only reason she survived, the sorcerer and the druid did not get that luck, I was still somewhat alive at -11. We woke up in jail and found a way our somehow.
If he wasn't meant to be fought, ask your DM what he was doing there in an obvious combat? This guy either shouldn't have been there, or there should have been obvious signs you were meant to negotiate with him. This is less than stellar DMing.
Jump later to level 3, small side-quest where we meet this thief band leader, the min/maxer dude decided to switch to wizard, the noob cleric is still there and my severely disfigured fighter (Healed naturally most of the fire damage from that breath attack) One issue not previously stated is that the min/maxer is, since the death of his previous PC, a chicken, he will run away at the slightest sign of trouble. Anyway the GM did not like my 24 AC at level 3 and decided that I should be thought a lesson, enter super awesome roguish NPC able to feint me and deal about 1d3 + 3d6 + 2 dmg, and also he was able to use spring attack. The wizard ran away and the cleric was knocked unconscious, same for my fighter. We managed to escape but of course the dude had a super awesome exit and collapsed his escape tunnel.
So you get your AC up high and the DM decides to punish you. Did he actually say this? and how did the rogue get sneak attack on you if you could see him coming? (Spring attack is easily foiled, BTW, with a held action called 'hit whatever appears close to me' - or it should be). As Improved Feint takes a move action and Spring Attack is a full round action, you cannot combine the two. If your DM did, then he's playing fast & loose with the rules.
Here now at level 5, the chicken wizard like I love to call him, the cleric and the good old fighter decide to pursue the rumor that a doppelganger is controlling a tribe of ogres in the nearby mountain, we have a flawless run, by flawless I mean not 1 hit point of damage caused by the enemy. We DECIMATE them, the cleric is not a noob anymore, she spam hold person, the wizard chain cast haste and glitterdust, I cleave at least once every 2 rounds do around 20 dmg per swing. We arrive at the last room of the complex, that weird monk wearing a headband over his eyes and a ogre next to him. The wizard manage to grease the ogre weapon out of his hands, but TADA! He now had vital strike and claws that dish around 25 dmg per round, + that monk manage to stun fist me, (dropping my weapon), almost one shot our cleric down in one combo. I got lucky and with 3 HP left I killed the supercharged large doppelganger. The monk ran away, once again forbidding us to exact any sense of victory or revenge. The DM slipped that the monk had true sight 30 feet, negating a key strategy we used until this point, the invisible fighter!
Actually, this is not too bad. Custom magic item on the monk to counter a tactic you have spammed up to that point is not an issue because you HAVE used it before and the enemy will prepare. Having an enemy escape is not an issue (especially monks, they aren't good at much else). The monk stunning you was a fluke, it's a Fort save which should be your fighter's best. You got one enemy when the other got away, not too bad - this is what I would expect from a 'tough' final boss encounter.
And this is only the tip of the iceberg.
All NPC mentioned were hostile enemies and performed horrible acts against nearby human settlements. Most of them are linked from close or far away to some sort of dragon cult.
OK, so they are definitely foes. But given the trend here from massively overpowered to overpowered to tough, it actually sounds to me like your DM is moving in the right direction.
Action economy is not a thing when you have a overpowered enemies that make most their saves and can one-shot anyone in the party except the fighter. Also bear in mind we have 15 buy point *low* magic campaign and core rule book only. I knew what I was getting into day 1, it was a back to basic game, however now I just want to power game all the time, feeling powerless left me with a thirst to play the most broken class/combos I can think off.
You need to explain this to your DM. However, consider your last encounter described: for most of the game you cruise through without a scratch. You are kicking butt. Your complaint that ONE foe out of countless got away is not that bad, viewed in isolation. Consider that your DM may be learning too before you talk to him.
Every-time we almost get TPK but then to add humiliation to injury he pull his punches! I feel that at least he should suffer the consequences of his actions (unbalanced fights) by making the TPK happen.If hating this phenomenon is wrong, I don't wanna be right.
Seriously, I hate, hate, hate when GMs do this.
This is so true. It is only made worse if the GM then sends in an NPC to save the party.
There isn't much I hate more than that when playing an rpg. It is definitely worse than having my pc killed.
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Those ogres would have made short work of you, probably, if the DM and players had realized you can't use Hold Person on them.
Incorrect. Ogres in PF are Humanoid (Giant) and thus are vulnerable to Person spells. As are Trolls, the various Giant races, and most others that used to fall under the "Giant" creature type. There's no separate Giant type anymore.
I play in a similar game. It is not fun. It is, however, competitive and intense in ways that force me to continually become a better player with a stronger knowledge of the rules, enemies, classes, tactics and methods of survival.
I don't play in it for fun, per say. I play in it for the rush of winning, the thrill of knowing I was smart enough and skilled enough to survive that session and get my damn trophy.
It's not for everybody. But games like this most likely aren't going to change and they fill a certain niche.
I guess that my general complain is the difficulty spike, on paper sending a APL 4 group versus a CR 8 is in my dear opinion, a bit hardcore.
I politely asked the group if we could RP taking "lesser" jobs as an adventuring party allowing us to rethink our combat strategies and avoiding a certain death.
After a lot of reflection I can now see many problems with our group:
The wizard is OVERLY using defensive spells, it's to the point where I think I will have to buy him a wand of magic missile or something. In the last combat, while out of big hitting spells, decided to cast *mount* to use the horse as a meat shield while already standing 70 feet away from combat.
Our Cleric is actually learning a lot about the game and how to use her character, she is overly shy and not very creative due to constant peer pressure, I will have to make sure that with the rest of the group we take the time to let her think her actions and give her more space.
The rogue of the party is a massive RP crazy character, she likes to look cool, act cool. I think that so far in every fight we had she may have shot 1 kobold out with a crossbow.
The ranger very often no showing up at our game, but otherwise he his an excellent player and a great ranged support character.
I will try to politely point out those things out to the group.
I think I am frustrated that the only characters that actually do the dirty job in the party so fight (AKA spilling monster blood) are the cleric and me, and more often than not I take the beating, I take the risk, I have to cover their asses and often end up facing a NPC that as 3-4 level (and gear) more than me while the cleric as to spam heal me. I think that the next fight we know we are about to face a NPC I will simply turn away and decide to not to go fight.
I play in a similar game. It is not fun. It is, however, competitive and intense in ways that force me to continually become a better player with a stronger knowledge of the rules, enemies, classes, tactics and methods of survival.
I don't play in it for fun, per say. I play in it for the rush of winning, the thrill of knowing I was smart enough and skilled enough to survive that session and get my damn trophy.
It's not for everybody. But games like this most likely aren't going to change and they fill a certain niche.
I enjoy a good challenging game, I have no issues with dangerous foes, traps and puzzles. However I need a fair fight. When I DM, if I expose a party to an enemy, there is a way to beat him, sure the fight can be tough, but I always follow the APL and CR guidelines and double-check if I am about to use DM knowledge.
Yeah, you sound like a solid, fair GM.
It does not sound like, however, that you will get a fair fight in the current game you are playing in without the GM making some changes to the way they run their game and their encounters.
You will not be able to solve this issue in-game. If talking to your GM does not help, you need to either embrace the suck or find another game.
In my case, I play in a home RotRL campaign and I do weekly PFS. Both are great fun. The other game I described, however, is purely for the intensity, the challenge and the thrill of overcoming encounters and baddies that I really have little chance of beating. I embraced the suck because the GM was simply not going to change the way he runs his game.
Aye. I'm always a proponent that all players should be GMs to gain new perspective on "the other side of the screen, and all GMs should be players so they don't lose perspective when they run things.I find that in most cases, a GM who is behaving in this way probably just needs to get out from behind the screen and play a character of their own.It also sounds like that's where the GM would rather be. GMs aren't supposed to be eligible for Best Actor. Supporting only.
I agree. DMs tend to love the game that they are running but almost never get the chance to play as a player since most players do not want the responsability of running a game.
Update
Big story short, we had a TPK. The DM used a cloud-kill trap in an enclosed space with like 2 DC 30 disable trap check. Our relatively new player rogue did her best to disarm this but the cloud kill was empowered and the DM rolled 2 4's.
At first he wanted to cheese the roll, to make sure nobody would die. The whole group said no, we where tired of playing on HARDCORE GAMER OLD-SCHOOL ONLY MODE.
If any of you feel like reading the whole story here it is:
The group progressed until about level 8-9 depending on the players.
One of our player was bit of a crazy opportunistic wizard, the kind of guy you give an inch to and then he take 10 feet.
He was crafting for 1/4 of the cost magical items, would stall the party weeks at a time to get to craft his goodies.
Needless to say after a while the DM go tired of his s&%$ and actually came to me to talk about a way to gracefully deal with the situation, I offered him to pull a capture scenario, getting all our gear removed and trying to use our wits and teamwork to survive. I had pictured a great escape type of scenario, where we would have gathered a few possession and tools for a few weeks while being in jail and then trying to escape our captors, recuperate part of our gear then leave.
Alas our DM pushed to "11".
We got captured by a group of drows, with DC 30 something sleeping poison dart. we go attached to suspended chains upside down and naked. We had to disarm 2 CR 7 traps to get out of this room. Then we had to fight 2 guards using a femur as a improvised weapon. At witch point we failed to notice a secret door to exit the guard room and thought stupidly that we should go trough the only apparent exit. The exit was a long corridor with a simple door at the end, the rogue did not find any trap on the door. We open the door and surprise! There was a trap! empowered cloud kill and no way to exit the corridor. The rogue disarm and find a way to open the door blocking our exit. The cleric and the rogue both die, the wizard (main target of that plan) got lucky with his saving throws and survive, I survive. Out numbered and at 2 con I decide to surrender, the wizard tries to escape in vain. We get executed. TPK.
lessons learned:
- Never ever ever ever give ANY ideas to the GM.
- Always assume the DM is unable to properly balance an encounter
- Play stupid, make easy fight look hard so that the DM feels good about himself and thus does not make the game any more harder.
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I wish I could remember where I heard it from, but someone once said something to the effect of, "A good GM knows how to let the party win while making them think they just barely snatched victory from the jaws of defeat."
Your GM, based on what you've said, is the opposite kind of GM, one who steers the party into something they think they can handle, and then throws all hell at them and watches them get flustered and fail so he can enjoy some sort of power trip.
Here's another rule about GMs: "A good GM's first priority is making sure everyone is having fun."
You have a s!%~ty GM.
Get a better one. Given you just hit a TPK, you have a perfect opportunity to seek one out.
I mean, I could give my usual hippie advice about talking things out and making sure all sides are heard but... no. Talk to your fellow players, find another GM. Maybe one of the others will volunteer to try running.
And don't invite him to join, either.
I however will say the same thing that has been said multiple times already
talk to your group members and make sure you are all on the same page
talk to your GM after that about your disatisfaction
if you are unwilling to do this, or you do it and it does not result in positive change, then look to Deathquaker's post for further advice
OP you do not seem happy in this game and the challenge level appears to have jumped the shark
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Lesson Ive learned from reading your posts.
1. Intervention, All p[layers need to voice their concerns to the "powermad wanna be a player DM", perhaps it is as simple as "How about you play now as we are having no fun in this campaign"
2. Find a new DM. Self explanatory.
3. Passive agressive techniques never work! It is not worth your time and energy to go to a game you are dreading just to try and beat him.
Although Lamontius did have a good take on it i.e. using it to expand your knowledge/techniques.
My CP
Nice overreaction ya got there.Every-time we almost get TPK but then to add humiliation to injury he pull his punches! I feel that at least he should suffer the consequences of his actions (unbalanced fights) by making the TPK happen.If hating this phenomenon is wrong, I don't wanna be right.
Seriously, I hate, hate, hate when GMs do this.
This is so true. It is only made worse if the GM then sends in an NPC to save the party.
There isn't much I hate more than that when playing an rpg. It is definitely worse than having my pc killed.
I don't know what to tell you. I was in one campaign where every other session our PCs would get curb-stomped by NPCs and other NPCs would swoop in to save us. (The other 50% of the time, the NPCs would curb-stomp us and then leave us alive for no particular reason.)
Looking back, it was awful. The worst part was that the GM was an enthusiastic, diligent guy who came up with interesting stories; his only flaw was in his reasoning -- "If barely clinging to life after a fight is exciting when it happens 10% of the time, then it must be ten times as exciting when it happens 100% of the time!"
Nice overreaction ya got there.Every-time we almost get TPK but then to add humiliation to injury he pull his punches! I feel that at least he should suffer the consequences of his actions (unbalanced fights) by making the TPK happen.If hating this phenomenon is wrong, I don't wanna be right.
Seriously, I hate, hate, hate when GMs do this.
This is so true. It is only made worse if the GM then sends in an NPC to save the party.
There isn't much I hate more than that when playing an rpg. It is definitely worse than having my pc killed.
I don't know what to tell you. I was in one campaign where every other session our PCs would get curb-stomped by NPCs and other NPCs would swoop in to save us. (The other 50% of the time, the NPCs would curb-stomp us and then leave us alive for no particular reason.)
Looking back, it was awful. The worst part was that the GM was an enthusiastic, diligent guy who came up with interesting stories; his only flaw was in his reasoning -- "If barely clinging to life after a fight is exciting when it happens 10% of the time, then it must be ten times as exciting when it happens 100% of the time!"
I like to run a pretty tough game, but that's not what you're describing. It sounds like you had a GM who wrote a story where his NPCs were both the heroes and the villains, and the PCs only existed to be their playthings. That is IMHO, one of the worst things a GM can do. It's incredibly frustrating for the players.
It's surprising how threatening CR+0 and CR+1 encounters can be when you have four or more of them per day. Occasionally send one at night, or right after another group, or have them lay an ambush. The variance between different enemies will make certain encounters harder for some parties and easier for others, and there's really no reason a GM would ever need a CRx2 encounter to challenge a party.
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Stories like this make me want to buy my GM a beer in appreciation for how he can run a good game, week-in and week-out, for years on end. Yeesh.
The thing is that I've had Unwinnable Fight scenarios work out-- as in, the session involves the PCs being captured. The BBEG shows up, wipes the floor with the party, captures them, now... adventure!
The first time my GM tried the "you're supposed to lose this one" encounter, it did not work well. The problem was that it wasn't difficult enough, oddly. If I'm supposed to lose a fight for story reasons, I'm happier feeling that I never had a chance to win in the first place.
But it sounds like your GM isn't making these encounters because they're supposed to lead to something fun. It sounds like he just wants to win. I find this can lead to a competitive table culture where people think tabletop RPGs can actually be "won", which leads to player-vs-GM mentalities, which is less fun in total. At least to me. YMMV.
Looking back, it was awful. The worst part was that the GM was an enthusiastic, diligent guy who came up with interesting stories; his only flaw was in his reasoning -- "If barely clinging to life after a fight is exciting when it happens 10% of the time, then it must be ten times as exciting when it happens 100% of the time!"I like to run a pretty tough game, but that's not what you're describing. It sounds like you had a GM who wrote a story where his NPCs were both the heroes and the villains, and the PCs only existed to be their playthings.
No. Like I said, it was very clear that he really liked it when every single fight was a "squeaker", but the problem was that the line between a squeaker and a TPK was so nebulous for him that it required constant narrative hijinks to keep us alive. (This was in 2E D&D, for what it's worth.)
Enjoy killing mooks.
Be prepared to run away from boss fights (or any fights that are too difficult). I'd assume that those enemies reappear when you are stronger and then you can kill them.
Sounds very enjoyable to me (for both players and for GM).
EDIT: I mean that retreat can be challenging and tactical (enjoyable) scenario, when players are prepared to retreat. Maybe that can lead to chasing or something. I'd like to play that.
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OP,
I actually think your suggestion "Simply make my character leave every time one of those NPCs show up" has merit.
Basically, don't wave it in the GM's face, but play your character as cautious and genre savvy.
When the other players want to launch a direct frontal assault, say things like "Hey, it's your funeral." Don't say "We have to run away because GM Bob is a jerk and we can't kill NPCs..." just let your feet do the talking. That's a kind of roleplaying after all.
The GM will dig that you got the message, the one he wanted to send, which was that these enemies are badass. Running away is actually not such a bad tactic, especially if there's nothing lost in the process. If you wait and confront the enemy when you have the upper hand, you stand a far better chance.
Now, I'm not sure an attempt to appease the GM will actually work, but it sounds like playing very cautiously around named characters is just a good idea in these situations.
CR = APL + 4 is not that crazy, in my opinion. That's what I use for "bosses".
BTW, I've been living through a very similar situation with one of my GMs, who loves hard mode. It has to get really, really bad before the advice "just suck it up" becomes worthless.
... But if you just want to make your party stronger, check this out (or discussion).