So my main group of players are:
-CN Halfling Rogue 2
-CN Tiefling Ranger 2
-CG Human Barbarian 2, and
-an Undetermined Caster (although she expressed she wanted to be evil aligned, I told her I don’t allow Evil Alignments on the basis of they tend to cause too much inner party strife, so I think she’s going for a CN or N caster character).
I’m struggling to draw them into adventures. Right now, the only player who readily accepts quests without question is the CG Barbarian (he used to be CN, then realised his character was more inclined to help those more unfortunate than himself and switched). The other players usually beeline for ‘How much will you give us?’
Now, this concept isn’t always a problem to me, but this time it seems to be that if the reward offered isn’t especially high, the other players see it as ‘not worth the effort’, or 'being cheated'.
Right now, I tend to give a little more than the average treasure amount recommended in the Core Rulebook.
I’m just wondering how other GMs handle this sort of issue? I don’t have a problem offering rewards for quests, but I can’t just keep upping the rewards each game, or I’ll run into issues balancing the encounters.
Maybe design adventures involving NPCs that they care about? Rescue missions, vengeance quests, etc.
Politely discus with the players that if they don't respond to the possibilities offered, they & their characters will be bored.
Well, "how much will you give us" is an absolutely reasonable anti-hero motivation. So, how much will you give them?
I would consider having them cheated or robbed. But don't use it often just once or twice in a campaign is plenty.
Also not everthing needs to be a commission from someone else. While on the previous job they find some clues to something interesting. The guy whose plans they messed up last time is trying to stop their interference. Legal problems, do this job or end up in gaol. Prophecy says on of them is destined to save the new king (the old king is not happy about this). Haunted by someone they killed. Picked up a cursed item and need to figure out how to get rid of it.
Ask them when they make their characters what motivates them.
Are they N characters out for revenge, or power, or gold? A subtle rumor about a forgotten temple in the middle of the jungle that could hold rare magical items is plenty to motivate almost any player. If they are really roleplaying a character that doesn't care about wealth, throw in what they do care about: the treasure is guarded by a dragon that might be the same one that killed the barbarian's mother, etc.
Simply tell your players that, the more information they give you about their characters personality and background, the easier it will be to tailor adventures to them. A few other questions:
1. Do they see the normal amount of treasure as not being worth it? Why? Have you created an expectation in them that they will receive more than the amount they are supposed to?
2. Is their increase in treasure causes problems in the game with regards to power level?
3. Has the only motivation you have ever given them treasure? Have you not, for instance, tried to goad them with a thief stealing something of value from them, and having them track the villain down?
Maybe design adventures involving NPCs that they care about? Rescue missions, vengeance quests, etc.
Or use the CG barbarian. If they play a bit reckless, then 'encourage' them to act first, ask questions later. The rest of the party will likely be inclined to follow and clean up after him.
I hear that stealing is an effective berserk button. It doesn't have to be anything much, maybe just a wallet/ coin purse. Or make it significant and have someone's love one mail a locket or the like to them.
Bonus points if the locket has the portrait of a deceased relative. You can make this go pretty far if you have the item work its way around the black market as a hot item. This could work out even if they never even seen the locket. just have a mail caravan get robbed and let them "find" a letter addressed to them.
Maybe design adventures involving NPCs that they care about? Rescue missions, vengeance quests, etc.
Or use the CG barbarian. If they play a bit reckless, then 'encourage' them to act first, ask questions later. The rest of the party will likely be inclined to follow and clean up after him.
I hear that stealing is an effective berserk button. It doesn't have to be anything much, maybe just a wallet/ coin purse. Have someone steal horses while they are in the bar drinking. You need to balance it enough so that it gets their attention without railroading, yet stealing their weapons, armor, spellbooks, etc. would make them angry at you. So make it something that has emotional value.
Maybe make it significant and have someone's love one mail a locket or the like to them. Bonus points if the locket has the portrait of a deceased relative. You can make this go pretty far if you have the item work its way around the black market as a hot item. This could work out even if they never even seen the locket. Just have a mail caravan get robbed and let them "find" a letter addressed to them talking about it.
Ah, so they're more mercenaries than the punisher. Well if that's the case perhaps find something that will draw their ire more than their greed.
A group of assassin's attack them in a dark alley, not to kill them, more to test them and understand them for future battles. If done right, they'll focus more on the fact that they were attacked and want revenge more than money.
Have neglecting the poor that ask for help mean something.
"Please! I'm begging you! Find my sister, she's all that I have."
"No money, no mercenaries. Sorry."
The sister dies and now a determined young lad does anything and everything he can do to get the party killed. Sabotage, telling their enemies what they want and where they are going, starts a riot against the players, etc...
Or you could just pay them, but only a little bit. Maybe they're getting paid by the bad guy and they don't know it yet. They're doing his dirty work sort of thing.
Lots of options and of course these may not be the best fit for you. Either way, it sounds like it could be a fun game.
If they want to be mercenaries, go with the Hunter's Guild approach, where there's a job board in the major cities, or an assignment agency where bounty hunters, adventurers, and problem solvers can go to find work, and people in need can put up jobs or comissions.
If they're actually trying to be anitheroes, then offer them chances to help people while being jerks about it or while breaking the rules.
|
I have an idea: Give them a reward that's two or three levels higher than the average for their 'starter' quest. They go and do that for a few sessions, job done, get awesome rewards!
Then, have that stuff stolen from them. Another group of adventurers saw an easy mark (them) and took their stuff in the dead of the night. Now they have a choice to get their stuff back and 'send a message' that they're not to be stolen from (otherwise every lvl 1 rogue and his dog will see them as a soft target).
Then you have something pretty cool to design! Investigation! Rival Party! Their hideout! (Their hideouts?) Are they part of a larger guild?
As they adventure through, give them average amounts of loot, side quests if they want help from NPC's in helping them along the trail etc. This way, by the time they get their 'high level reward' back, they'll actually be breaking even.
The main problem is making them care about others. This will make it hard for them to take on Quests. The classic approach to questing will not work with them, so instead turn them into the Quest.
Create an archenemy to hound them and make their lives miserable. Frame them for a crime they did not commit, or charge them for one of their many past crimes they did commit. Put them in prison or slave pits so they work together to survive and escape. Create unbeatable foes so they have to run to survive, so they have to hide to live another day. Take away all their resources and weapons so they have to work or quest for money and gear. Make life hard on them so it becomes a challenge, a worthy endeavor of their time and determination.
Any player needs a goal, and if your goal is at the end of the traditional questing "carrot stick" then change the carrot. What will motivate them? Is it money? Then take it away so they have to re-earn it. Is it gear? Take that away too. Is it revenge? A hero is only as good as his enemy. Is it all those things? Then mess with their lives. Once you find that carrot, you can get your donkeys moving again.
It's a merc party. they are for hire.
This is like a group of sub contractors.
Please kind sirs, my kids want a pool in the back yard. Oh yea? how much will you give us?
Not much different.
What you need to do with a merc party is make sure how aware they are of the costs of just sitting around. Make them buy food and pay for lodging. Occasionally have some pick pocket mark them, even if they thief isnt successful, it makes that money more precious.
IF the turn down a job (adventure) make it a few weeks before they find another hook. Their money will dwindle. The more they RP, the more their money goes, the more bored they get. You don't have to reference or talk about it in game, they will get it all on their own.
"We have to go make some money"
Please kind sirs, the goblin problem we told about you last month, it's getting really bad.. could you help?
How much will you give us?
We are but poor gentlefolk, but we can offer food and lodging in any of our homes while you are operating in the area agains the goblins, and the abandoned temple they operate out of on the north ridge is rumored to be haunted, which is why no one has gone in their until these goblins appeared, the belongings of the old priests must still be inside, you are welcome to keep whatever you find.
Also, a local lord could offer a reward/bounty for good works... keep the peasants happy, not risk his own life or that of his mends...500 gold to the first group who makes this goblin thing stop being a topic at my dinner table!
A grizzled, retired (maybe old arrow-knee himself?) adventurer reveals the location of an ancient treasure of incredible worth. He wants nothing but to know someone was able to get it out of there.
When they reach it, they see the most incredible treasure imaginable, moments before the grizzled-old adventurer snakes it out from under them. How he does this depends entirely on the party's power level, but I'm not seeing many good will saves in the make up. Don't have him kill, just have him take them out. And take the treasure.
Have him leave a few copper pieces and a note: "For clearing the path. My eternal thanks."
The next several levels are spent tracking him down and regaining the treasure that is by now, perfectly level-appropriate.
Also, since you have a ranger in there, I assume he has (or will have) an animal companion. Target that for kidnapping/poaching. They are technically free, but are considered enough of an investment of time and energy that they will not think strait. Plus, easier to pull off than a full blow robbery if you have if it just wanders every now and then. The party will call you out if you try to steal their spell book or their +5 sword of awesome too much, but an animal companion are much more likely to be targeted by a 3rd party than the group in magical glowing armor.
I have to agree with some of the above, but I will put it into my own words. Motivate the characters by motivating the players.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
for the mercenary attitude, do just that: have people hire them on as mercenaries to supplement their army, or protect a low-ranked noble during his travels to another kingdom, or as caravan guards, or as hired muscle for an excavation team delving ancient dungeons. if money and goods are their prime motivation, then use that to hook them in.
want the party to go somewhere big? gank their loot. they will follow you to the ends of the earth to get it back, regardless of what it is.
.
or if they decide to change to villains for some reason, simply ignore any angst they throw at you and make them heroes anyway.
that orphanage they burned down? turns out it was a front for a staging ground for a demon invasion. the party is now the heroes of the town.
that puppy they kicked? a demon in disguise. heroes of the town.
littering? you guessed it, a demon. town heroes.
Pinky: "Gee, Brain, what do you want to do tonight?"
The Brain: "The same thing we do every night, Pinky—try to take over the world!"
play on there ego if they refuse give them a fine i suppose if you cant handle the task ill find another group more suted to it... and have the npc walk away and wait.
and if they try and kill him/her have something really bad happen
Wow! Lots of great ideas here!
I went through the thread and jotted down a bunch of ideas for future use. I may try a few other things before going for the 'steal from them' route. I don't want to seem like I'm 'trying to get them back' for not jumping at the opportunity to do my quests.
I think for my next game I'm going to try a simple bait of a snarky note left by a syndicate they've run into in the past, telling them to keep their 'nose out of business that isn't their's' among a few other insulting things. I'm hoping that will get them fired up enough without actually having to steal from them.
I may also try to develop a rival adventuring group which tries to constantly one-up them or steal from them, etc.
I could definitely see my players saying:
"Eh, sorry sir. That doesn't really seem like much of a trade off to me.."
"Rival group walks up*
"We'll do it instead!"
My group:
"WHAT!?! how dare you! We're much better suited!"
or if they decide to change to villains for some reason, simply ignore any angst they throw at you and make them heroes anyway.that orphanage they burned down? turns out it was a front for a staging ground for a demon invasion. the party is now the heroes of the town.
that puppy they kicked? a demon in disguise. heroes of the town.
littering? you guessed it, a demon. town heroes.
I got a good laugh from this. I do want to point out that I did give my players an opportunity to play an evil-only campaign. I told everyone that if they would rather be the villains, I would plan a campaign best suited for that, but it turns out that most of them would rather stay in the 'Neutral' zone. I think they like the idea of serving themselves and being lawless, but not actually being *completely* evil.
Edit: The reason why I'm not allowing evil alignments into the mix now is because the campaigns that I played in/Gmed where this happened, it degraded into a lot of conflict and PVP. Good and Evil players have never mixed well.
This is wear back stories become vital. Why do they adventure. Even if there just doing it for kicks now you know to present an interesting problem to investigate. If they have no clear reason for adventuring they suck at role playing and I feel bad for you. I'm playing a CN oracle of battle who spends all his time being a perfectly nice guy on the surface but manipulating everyone towards war(real easy for my dm to motivate me). Every well made char has some type of motivation and finding it is the key to your success.
So my main group of players are:
-CN Halfling Rogue 2
-CN Tiefling Ranger 2
-CG Human Barbarian 2, and
-an Undetermined Caster (although she expressed she wanted to be evil aligned, I told her I don’t allow Evil Alignments on the basis of they tend to cause too much inner party strife, so I think she’s going for a CN or N caster character).I’m struggling to draw them into adventures. Right now, the only player who readily accepts quests without question is the CG Barbarian (he used to be CN, then realised his character was more inclined to help those more unfortunate than himself and switched). The other players usually beeline for ‘How much will you give us?’
It sounds like some of your party members want to play evil. But you forbid it, so they went chaotic neutral(the closest they could get).
There are still plenty of motivations. Gold is a good one, but so is revenge. Someone attacked or stole from the party. Or prestige.
This actually doesn't sound much like a chaotic party, either. They sound more Neutral, to me. Chaotic folks tend to do things for the hell of it. If their only motivation is money, this is a neutral attitude, not a chaotic one.
My advice here would be to drop the episodic job-oriented campaign, and plan out a reactive campaign where the characters are being hunted for some crime (whether they committed it or not really doesn't matter). Play it like Star Wars, or Firefly: There's a big faceless organization out there that Wants Your Guys Dead. This could be the Evil Empire, or it could be the Shadowy Assassin's Guild -- it could even be The Secret Illuminati. Start the next session simply -- they're looking for work -- then suddenly eight to ten guys assault them in a darkened alley, or even the middle of the street. Make sure the opposition is way too powerful to fight and the only option is flight. Then The Chase Is On. They need to lose their pursuers and find someplace to hole up, and figure out what's going on -- but you should never let them do that last part. If they get close to putting two and two together, drop another group of assassins on them. Get them reacting, don't let them enact plans.
+1 for john-andre's idea: an episodic job-based one would be great and flexible. new party members? they were assigned to your group by the guildmaster/merc company head. light tone on your setting? play it like fairy tail. dark tone? you could go as far as gantz.
|
The rival adventurers idea could be gold. When they pass on a job, have the rivals snatch it up. Later on they can hear about the incredible adventure their rivals went on, all the incredible magic items they found, the horde of gold they gathered, and the titles and land the local lord bestowed on them for completing the adventure.
Either they will take they next low paying job hoping they have a lucky strike like the rivals did, or they'll attack the rivals to get their stuff. Unfortunately, they only have a level appropriate amount of treasure now, as they spent much of their gold on helping the poor and maintaining their holding.
Either way, they'll be motivated. :-)
Try sitting down with them and talking this out. Explain that you prefer a heroic quest campaign (or whatever) and you are not enjoying the fact that their PC’s do not seem to be motivated. Ask them what they, as players, want. Come to a compromise.
It sounds like the best idea is to do a reboot, and assign a heroic backstory and quest.
I try to give them the benefit of the doubt, because 3 out of the 4 of them are new to pathfinder. I think the only game they've played in the past is 4e.
I'm hoping a few unexpected plot twists like the rival group, or the being baited/hunted by an organization may stir them to be more enthusiastic.
Worst comes to worst, if none of the other approaches work, I could try to have a few precious items stolen and have them hunt the thieves to get them back.
Another option for a neutral group is to have them trying to build something - a castle, a guild, a kingdom. This gives them a motivation to acquire money and allies, and protect what they've created.
Though chaotic types might not care.
Alternatively, they could be trying to destroy something.
You could have quest NPCs promise them the world, but deliver to them an acre.
It sounds like you're writing your own campaign, a decision I heartily approve of.
My suggestion is this. The party is formed as a group of treasure hunters. Instead of having them "accept missions" or "take jobs" all they have to do is figure out where the best loot is, then go take it. You, as the GM, give them clues about ancient treasure hordes and lost artifacts.
If they're greedy, there's always the "you find a treasure map" hook, as well. You could play that a couple of ways...
Run it straight. The PCs find a treasure map to a dungeon where lost riches allegedly lie. Wilderness adventure to the dungeon, dungeon crawl to collect the treasure.
Run it complicated by a rival group catching wind that the PCs have a treasure map. Rival group attempts to steal the map by guile, stealth, or strong-arm tactics (or all three!). Party has to race rival group to treasure location. Party may need to team up with rival group to meet challenges of the dungeon.
You can do a lot with a greed-motivated party that doesn't necessarily follow the "guns for hire" model... although that certainly works too!