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So I tried to read the whole thread before commenting.
I have 2.5 pages of notes from the panel, and at least 2 attendees had recorders on the table in front of Jason, I think a guy in the front row had a third.
At 2nd Mythic level the characters get an ability that grants them +20 on initiative and as others have mentioned could allow them to go twice.
I wondered how this would work with Rogue Talents that let you go first. Clearly as others have mentioned putting absolutes in a rule/game mechanic paints you in a corner. I second the +20/40 bonus instead of "always" notion.
Jason mentioned a Mythic Dire Tiger running all over the battlefield using this. Also mentioned was a Mythic Hydra doing the same with all 7 heads going twice. The monster version of the power was called Agile Stalker?
Jason mentioned a Mythic Fire Giant surrounded by a cloud of choking ash and all its weapons were made of lava.
Mythic characters auto stabilize and don't die until negative 2x CON, Sean said he had a Barbarian that didn't die until 3x CON, and had an ability that allowed him to fight effectively past 0 HP.
Immediately I wondered how long the Cleric would take to get the Barbarin back to 0, much less full HP. Somebody else asked the question.
Mythic Characters get extra HP, Cleric gets more healing, and the PCs can take an hour long break to regain a good amount of HP but must burn some of their Mythic Power to do so.
Mythic Cure Light Wounds heals 3d6, and 1 Point of ability damage?
At 9th level Mythic characters become Immortal, if killed they come back in 24 hours, but don't have their memorized spells, etc.
There is Mythic Damage which is hard to heal and stays with you.
There Mythic rules make use of Epic DR, it is called Epic because it already exists in the rules, the Warden still coming together has some abilities affecting this.
The Heirophant collects followers/worshippers and at high levels begins to grant them spells.
All Mythic characters must have a weakness, one of the playtesters (Eric?) had weakness to Material Wood. Crits from Weapons primarily made of wood Auto-Confirmed Crits, and even if you have DR, your weakness material ignores it. Character faced a Treant and said "I'm guessing that's primarily made of wood"
Trickster Path includes an ability to reroll weapon damage.
Oddly enough I went to the seminar hoping to ask rules design questions, but this was good too.
Paul
That just sounds better and better. I am definitely looking forward to Mythic rules.
[Edit] I wonder if the Initiative ability will be like the Maharaja Rakshasha ability Extra Initiative?
When an encounter starts, a maharaja rolls twice for initiative. The maharaja acts normally on the higher of the two initiative counts each round. On the lower initiative count, the maharaja can take a single standard action.
[Edit] I wonder if the Initiative ability will be like the Maharaja Rakshasha ability Extra Initiative?
When an encounter starts, a maharaja rolls twice for initiative. The maharaja acts normally on the higher of the two initiative counts each round. On the lower initiative count, the maharaja can take a single standard action.
I definitely heard the second initiative has full attacks like another turn, as others have mentioned this helps Boss monsters compete against 4-6 players in the action economy.
The Mythic Dire Tiger had Pounce too, at least that's my recollection.
I gathered that, I just wondered if it wouldn't be similar. For instance, roll 2d20 and add your initiative. You act on the higher roll, and act again on the lower roll.
Unfortunately I am hearing tons of combat stuff and not much out of combat. Which is a trend from the hardcovers, and frankly very annoying to me. Hopefully we get some non combat options.
Interestingly quite a lot of these concepts have a distinct 4e flavour to them. I play and enjoy 4e a lot as well as PF so this is not a baiting statement.
So I know its been said definitively that this will have rules for "mythic" play below level 20, and I know 3.5's 20+ was a completely mess. But will this also include official 20+ levels for Pathfinder? I have a retired level 22 character from 2E that I need to convert.
There will be no 21st and above levels. Pathfinder will support 20 levels, +10 Mythic Levels. You won't be a 30th level Fighter or a 10th Barbarian, 10th Fighter 10th Paladin, you will be a 20th level character, with 10 Mythic Levels.
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There will be no 21st and above levels. Pathfinder will support 20 levels, +10 Mythic Levels. You won't be a 30th level Fighter or a 10th Barbarian, 10th Fighter 10th Paladin, you will be a 20th level character, with 10 Mythic Levels.
Just to (again) correct this. Any GM who likes can cheerfully let their players go beyond 20th level. The Core Rulebook even has rules for this on pp406-407; it's even in the PRD.
The problem isn't that you can't, it's that without any rules support for stuff above level 20, the options start to feel thin after a bit.
I do see the mythic rules breathing new lift into this. Instead of trying to make a level 30 fighter work, for example (and it does work), you can make a figher 20/mythic 5 who counts as level 30 but feels epic, unlike a level 30 fighter who would just feel like a fighter with extra high bonuses and hp.
I still find some of the level 20 capstone abilities unfortunate. At-will wildshape? Ugh. Immune to critical hits/sneak attacks (with no qualifier like the rogue has). Ugh.
Actually a 20 Fighter/ Mythic 5 will be equal to a 25th level character, not 30. A 20 level 10 Mythic character will be equal to a 30th level character.
However, the Mythic will add a lot more than numerical bonuses that normal levels do. As mentioned, you'll get things like multiple actions, immortality, Mythic Spells etc, etc. These are things that Class levels can't give you.
Actually a 20 Fighter/ Mythic 5 will be equal to a 25th level character, not 30. A 20 level 10 Mythic character will be equal to a 30th level character.
However, the Mythic will add a lot more than numerical bonuses that normal levels do. As mentioned, you'll get things like multiple actions, immortality, Mythic Spells etc, etc. These are things that Class levels can't give you.
I'm confused. I thought the class levels equivalent of your mythic level equaled half the value of your mythic values added to your total mythic level value? So a Mythic Leveled 6 person was actually level 9?
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I'm confused. I thought the class levels equivalent of your mythic level equaled half the value of your mythic values added to your total mythic level value? So a Mythic Leveled 6 person was actually level 9?
So what was said, is that encounters would/should be balanced as if characters had Mythic levels equal to half of their class levels. There are 10 Mythic levels that parallel the class levels.
It was also mentioned that if your GM holds back on the Mythic levels a little it 1 or 2 should not be game breaking, the fights would just be harder. GM is likewise free to give them faster +1 or +2, but as you'll see below that might not be all that useful.
Character/class of level 6 still hits as hard as a level 6, the AC is still that of level 6.
A specific example that came up was that if the GM gave a Champion enough Mythic levels to get the Precision ability which reduces the penalty on Interative Attacks by 5, it would not do the player any good before level 6 where they get their first Interative attack.
It was also said that a creature CR 5 with 10 Mythic levels would not be as effective as a CR 15 because it would still have a CR 5 AC, BAB and Damage.
What I've gathered is that you can have Mythic Levels equal to half your Class level. So a 6th level character, could have 3 Mythic Levels which would allow him to take on a 9th level enemy as he'll be effectively, 9th level in terms of abilities.
A 6th level character could also only have 1 Mythic Level or 2 Mythic Levels. Mythic Levels won't be earned by experience points, they'll be earned by achievements or granted by the artifact/god/source of power they derive from.
So lets say you did something truly heroic, something that really pushed you beyond the bounds of normal limits. Then, you could earn a Mythic Level.
Or lets say you discovered an unawakened artifact, or someone who's power is slumbering and needs to be awakened. You bring the artifact with you, not knowing, or possibly knowing, its an artifact. As you use it, or it is in your proximity, it starts awakening and giving you powers and abilities people could only dream of, AKA Mythic Levels.
Maybe that cute Sorceress is actually a Plantar that has lost all memories of who she is and what she is capable of. But in aiding her recover her memory and abilities, she is unknowingly infusing you with divine energy, empowering you in ways never before heard of. You've just gained Mythic Levels.
It seems like Mythic Levels will be given out at the discretion of the GM. While you can be pretty much assured of the fact your character will level up as you play through the campaign, you cannot be assured that you will be gaining Mythic Levels. Assigning Mythic Levels is purely GM territory.
You know I have to say, this post by F. Wesley Schneider really makes me think the Seven Swords will be artifacts that can be awakened and give the players Mythic Levels. Maybe even included in the Playtest. I'll quote it for those who don't want to click the link.
There will be significantly more on the Swords of Sin by the end of the year, so keep an eye out.
For now, though, Tels has some great ideas here. I'd steal liberally from there to tide you over.
Well... huge fight with the boyfriend. No GenCon. :(
Think, these Mythic rules aren't even far in the horizon and yet they're already destroying your life.
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Maybe this might allow me to run the solo Legend of Zelda campaign I've been thinking of running?
It was also said that a creature CR 5 with 10 Mythic levels would not be as effective as a CR 15 because it would still have a CR 5 AC, BAB and Damage.
This sounds a bit like Benjamin Durbin's (Bad Axe Games) work on the "The Spine" for his monster tweaking in Trailblazer (3.75) game...
I really hope the guys at Chronicles and Know Direction had recordings at these seminars.
This sounds a bit like Benjamin Durbin's (Bad Axe Games) work on the "The Spine" for his monster tweaking in Trailblazer (3.75) game...
Heh
As I said above, I see a lot of Bad Axe here. It sounds more and more like it is taking a page from Mythic Heroes. I get that vibe even stronger as I read more bits and pieces.
And that is nothing but goodness.
Great game design is built on innovating on existing material. And Paizo rocks at that.
(And I realize all this is based on seeing 1% of the material and it will likely all change long before release. :) )
Think, these Mythic rules aren't even far in the horizon and yet they're already destroying your life.Well... huge fight with the boyfriend. No GenCon. :(
No please Astral Wanderer.
I never should have brought that up online. Our argument had NOTHING to do with Mythic rules. GenCon may have lit a match with him but there is a pile of kindling we have both been adding to for a while. In fact gaming itself is one of the few things we actually have in common. Things got said that I am struggling to even wrap my head around. I am sure you know that sick feeling you get after a big fight. I really hope you can forget I said anything about us fighting, please.
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Think, these Mythic rules aren't even far in the horizon and yet they're already destroying your life.Well... huge fight with the boyfriend. No GenCon. :(
No please Astral Wanderer.
I never should have brought that up online. Our argument had NOTHING to do with Mythic rules. GenCon may have lit a match with him but there is a pile of kindling we have both been adding to for a while. In fact gaming itself is one of the few things we actually have in common. Things got said that I am struggling to even wrap my head around. I am sure you know that sick feeling you get after a big fight. I really hope you can forget I said anything about us fighting, please.
*Hands Aranna a scroll of Mass Modify Memory*
Think, these Mythic rules aren't even far in the horizon and yet they're already destroying your life.Well... huge fight with the boyfriend. No GenCon. :(
No please Astral Wanderer.
I never should have brought that up online. Our argument had NOTHING to do with Mythic rules. GenCon may have lit a match with him but there is a pile of kindling we have both been adding to for a while. In fact gaming itself is one of the few things we actually have in common. Things got said that I am struggling to even wrap my head around. I am sure you know that sick feeling you get after a big fight. I really hope you can forget I said anything about us fighting, please.
Forget you said anything about what?
So it a way it is kind of like multi classing?
Just to clear up any remaining confusion for those skimming the thread, since some people are stating things in an absolute fashion:
You can have a number of levels in a Mythic Path equal to half your regular class levels. Fighter 10 can have up to 5 Mythic levels.
Mythic levels will probably add to your overall level on a one-for-one basis (some speculate the ratio may be more but that doesn't seem to be the case). So a Level 6 Fighter can take a maximum of 3 Mythic Levels for a total of 9 effective levels and able to tackle CR 9 threats on average.
Yes, in theory, Pathfinder already allows characters to reach Level 21+. HOWEVER, there is currently absolutely no Paizo support for the method listed in the CRB, other than "you may use existing materials from elsewhere". By that section's own admission in the Core book, those advancement rules are a place-holder until official support comes along, "Paizo Publishing may eventually publish rules to take your game into these epic realms, but if you can't wait and would rather not use existing open content rules for epic-level play, you can use the following brief guidelines to continue beyond 20th level."
These Mythic Rules are the official rules that will replace the place-holder rules in the CRB. If you don't like the new rules, yes, can you can use the CRB ones. If you want to use the new rules with the old ones, yes, you can do that to (as gbonehead said, all of this is subject to GM inclination). But there is absolutely no indication that Mythic Paths will go above 10. Assuming this , it means that there is no support or benefit to Mythic levels beyond having 20 regular levels. At Level 20 you qualify for your final level in a Mythic Path. Sure you could be a level 24 Fighter but your Mythic Path will still cap out at 10. So it seems the intention of the new rules is an overall Mythic Cap of 30 (Regular Class 20/Mythic Path 10).
Whew, just wanted to get that out of my system. Hope this helps to clear things up for some people.
I just thought of something. If you mixed the mythic levels into the normal XP progression (I know this isn't how it's supposed to work) that'd no only extend the classes out to 30, but it'd also slow down spell progression while increasing martial options, which, without any real analysis, sounds like it'd keep things from breaking down (for those that find it does break down) a lot longer.
I just thought of something. If you mixed the mythic levels into the normal XP progression (I know this isn't how it's supposed to work) that'd no only extend the classes out to 30, but it'd also slow down spell progression while increasing martial options, which, without any real analysis, sounds like it'd keep things from breaking down (for those that find it does break down) a lot longer.
We don't know for certain that Mythic levels will diminish spellcasting yet. It sounded like there will be six different paths Mythic characters can take... so there's probably something for everyone.
If they're not adding to the level cap, mythic levels couldn't increase the spellcasting progression of a full caster. From everything I've heard, casters would still get 9th level spells when they hit caster level 17 regardless of how many mythic levels they had. The archmage is supposed to get all kinds of spellcasting-boosting abilities, but an increased progression doesn't seem possible.
Oh, and I only meant diminished as in mixing levels would prevent you from reaching 5th so quickly. Basically, the level chart would look like:
Level 1 (0 XP) -> 1 wizard
Level 2 (2000 XP) -> 2 wizard
Level 3 (5000 XP) -> 2 wizard/1 archmage
Level 4 (9000 XP) -> 3 wizard/1 archmage
Level 5 (15000 XP) -> 4 wizard/1 archmage
Level 6 (23000 XP) -> 4 wizard/2 archmage
Level 7 (35000 XP) -> 5 wizard/2 archmage
Meaning you'd have a full 30 XP levels (again, I know this isn't what they're proposing), but you'd have to reach level 7 to get 3rd level spells.
Anyway, lacking further details, this sounds like a viable option for those of us that want an expanded level cap (if the new abilities are enough to offset slowing our main progressions).
Hmm really interested in this news, have done my best to skim the thread so far and good to see Eric posting in here to answer some of the concerns.
My concern is... will such mythic creatures have alternate rewards systems? For example a level 4 party with 2 mythic levels takes on a CR8 monster (whether the monster is itself mythic or not this would be effective a challenging fight, APL+2), isn't this going to result in the XP and treasure curves being thrown completely out of wack if the level 4 party is getting XP and treasure for a creature four levels higher? Or even what would normally be a difficult mini boss or the like for a level 4 party at CR 8 is only going to be a moderate challenge to the mythic party. Seems like the leveling will be greatly accelerated as a result, do mythic campaigns have to use the slow XP track to compensate, or will there be some alternate system to manage this?
I hope that's clear enough, I just got off a 12 hour graveyard shift so apologies if it's confusing :p Super excited to get my hands on the playtest.
Nobody has any thoughts on how this might affect XP accumulation?
It won't.
They specified that a Mythic character doesn't gain mythic levels via XP, and when taking them through a solo adventure (say) simply cut the XP granted by one quarter, meaning that they simply gain XP at a normal rate.
If, on the other hand, you have a Mythic party taking on Mythic monsters... you still don't increase the XP because the monsters are on par with the characters.
The only situation that XP change would occur in is if you were taking on more powerful monsters with a Mythic party... the simple solution is to simply reduce the XP to normal amounts, although that does require some sort of decision making. It's possible they have some system in place, though.
[good stuff and]:
Mythic characters auto stabilize and don't die until negative 2x CON, Sean said he had a Barbarian that didn't die until 3x CON, and had an ability that allowed him to fight effectively past 0 HP.Immediately I wondered how long the Cleric would take to get the Barbarin back to 0, much less full HP. Somebody else asked the question.
Mythic Characters get extra HP, Cleric gets more healing, and the PCs can take an hour long break to regain a good amount of HP but must burn some of their Mythic Power to do so.
Mythic Cure Light Wounds heals 3d6, and 1 Point of ability damage?
[...]
thank for the post. So the barbarian die at 3x con, but other classes die at 2x con. This indicates that mystic powers doesn't work the same for all classes, Nice.
Any mystic powers that let you move + full attack?
Any mystic powers for bards?
Any mystic powers that boost your saves?
Mythic healing: At last I can play a healer :-)
stuff
I see how you are trying to wrap your head around it, but it from what we know so far it doesn't work like a standard prc.
Think of it like this:Mythic caster 1 auto empower element, +1 spellcasting level
Mythic caster 2 twice cast, +1 spellcasting level
Auto empower element (My) whatever is granting the mythic level chooses one element. That element for the caster is always treated as if receives the benefit of the empower spell feat
Twice cast (My) once per day per mythic level the caster may cast a second spell in a single round. This spell can take no longer than a standard action. This does not affect the caster's turn in any other way.
Mind you, I have not seen the rules. This is just speculation based on the seminars.
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For me, the most interesting thing I took away from it is that these mythic levels are not permanent. The example given was that a god grants power to complete a specific task, you complete the task and the god takes the power back. Now that I like. You take on a hulking huge demon, you kill it. The god thee its power back and then the demon's brother comes along looking for payback. Sucks to be the pcs.
For me, the most interesting thing I took away from it is that these mythic levels are not permanent. The example given was that a god grants power to complete a specific task, you complete the task and the god takes the power back. Now that I like. You take on a hulking huge demon, you kill it. The god thee its power back and then the demon's brother comes along looking for payback. Sucks to be the pcs.
Can the levels be permanent? Like as a GM, can I just say "You guys keep these because of X reason?" or would that break anything in the game?
Probably not, but impermanent Mythic Levels sounds like fun. Kind of like a Deity sponsoring a group of Adventurers as his/her Champions to restore order/balance/power etc, then once Crisis is averted, withdrawing the power to be stored for another day.
Or, maybe the Party had to acquire a specific Artifact to close some Gate, stop some Enemy, fix some Wrong, and the Artifact was granting the levels. In the process of saving the day the Artifact was destroyed, and over time the Mythic Levels drained away, as their source was no longer around to keep them powered.
For me, the most interesting thing I took away from it is that these mythic levels are not permanent. The example given was that a god grants power to complete a specific task, you complete the task and the god takes the power back. Now that I like. You take on a hulking huge demon, you kill it. The god thee its power back and then the demon's brother comes along looking for payback. Sucks to be the pcs.
This was only an example that was used by Jason to say on what could be done, and your powers are not going to only be temporary. Unless the DM decides to run it that way.
I think normally in most campaigns players are going to gain Mythic powers permanently, just like you gain standard levels. Of course the way they are gained differs, but I just wanted to make clear that Jason was telling a neat adventure idea a GM could do in gaining Mythic levels, not something that is standard.
This was only an example that was used by Jason to say on what could be done, and your powers are not going to only be temporary. Unless the DM decides to run it that way.I think normally in most campaigns players are going to gain Mythic powers permanently, just like you gain standard levels. Of course the way they are gained differs, but I just wanted to make clear that Jason was telling a neat adventure idea a GM could do in gaining Mythic levels, not something that is standard.
Well yes. But thing that makes these different is that they can be taken away. It's not like the gm can remove levels in the game otherwise. Even with permanent level loss, the right restoration spell fixes that. But if a gm wants to take mythic levels away they can and that is what makes these special.
I wonder if the hierophant (?) will lose abilities if the number of devout followers drops off.
Well yes. But thing that makes these different is that they can be taken away. It's not like the gm can remove levels in the game otherwise. Even with permanent level loss, the right restoration spell fixes that. But if a gm wants to take mythic levels away they can and that is what makes these special.
This was only an example that was used by Jason to say on what could be done, and your powers are not going to only be temporary. Unless the DM decides to run it that way.I think normally in most campaigns players are going to gain Mythic powers permanently, just like you gain standard levels. Of course the way they are gained differs, but I just wanted to make clear that Jason was telling a neat adventure idea a GM could do in gaining Mythic levels, not something that is standard.
Yes, I understand. I just didn't want others to get the impression that the only way to gain Mythic levels was on a temporary basis from a deity. As even Odraude followed with a post asking if the levels can be permanent.
But if you think about it, a DM can do this now with normal levels. He can have a deity imbue the PCs with greater power (i.e. add temporary levels) to take on a great evil. Which is the same idea Jason was using in his example, but it was Mythic levels, instead.
Another thing to keep in mind is the DM can't (or really shouldn't) remove Mythic levels that have been earned permanently, as well. They can, but it could cause some disgruntled players, just like if the DM removed permanent (standard) levels.
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Not crazy about losing levels you have earned - like a video game character that gets a special new power or spell after each boss defeated.
On the other hand temporary powerup is just wonderfull for BBEGs. A mad priest channeling the power of the old gods for a short time, a party making a deal with Asmodeus to kill a demon lord and getting the power to succeed.... pretty much like every resident evil boss fight I can remember.
Sebastian,
Once again, the giving and taking away Mythic levels was only a plot idea that Jason had said a DM could do with the players, imbue them with them some Mythic levels to fight a great evil terrorizing a town (I believe it was a Mythic Minotaur) and then take it away once they've completed their heroic deed.
Help me understand what it is about these rules that is going to "fix" high level play. By my understanding, the game breaks down severely beyond 12th level (give or take a couple of levels, depending on who you ask). If mythic levels are taken alongside normal class levels (gestalt style?) and that increases the APL of the PCs, how is this patching that issue up?
It sounds more complicated, especially with the fact that you can lose these mythic levels (even as a suggestion). A 2nd level mythic character gets +20 to initiative; is that universal to all mythic classes? At that point there's virtually no need in rolling initiative unless your party is facing mythic enemies, just pick their order based on their initiative modifier. Is every creature you throw at the players at that point supposed to be mythic, or just higher CR? Because it doesn't seem like you're going to get the same ratio of power by ramping up an encounter if a mere two levels grants such a boon alongside auto-stabilization and increased death-timers.
I'm losing interest again. :( This simply does not appeal to me.
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For me, the most interesting thing I took away from it is that these mythic levels are not permanent. The example given was that a god grants power to complete a specific task, you complete the task and the god takes the power back. Now that I like. You take on a hulking huge demon, you kill it. The god thee its power back and then the demon's brother comes along looking for payback. Sucks to be the pcs.
What's interesting is this is pretty much how I justify the crazy power levels in my epic game - the PCs are divine agents, not just dudes who have millions of XP.
One of the side effects of this is they know that should they try, for example, to kill off the king and take over the kingdom, suddenly they're a handful of level 6 guys (and gals) facing an pissed off army led by said king :)
Help me understand what it is about these rules that is going to "fix" high level play. By my understanding, the game breaks down severely beyond 12th level (give or take a couple of levels, depending on who you ask).
I'll respond to your question but entirely sidestep discussing the presumption that high-level play is broken.
The Paizo mythic rules as proposed do nothing to fix high-level play for people who think high-level play is broken. What they do is allow those people to run mythic games at the levels where they're comfortable, by giving heroic powers to relatively low-level characters and giving the GMs a rationale for doing so.
On the other hand, if you're one of the folks who does not think high-level play is broken, then you can do like I'll do and use mythic levels for post-20 play.
That's the beauty of it - it's designed so you can use it at whatever the sweet spot is for you as a GM.
I'll respond to your question but entirely sidestep discussing the presumption that high-level play is broken.
The Paizo mythic rules as proposed do nothing to fix high-level play for people who think high-level play is broken. What they do is allow those people to run mythic games at the levels where they're comfortable, by giving heroic powers to relatively low-level characters and giving the GMs a rationale for doing so.
On the other hand, if you're one of the folks who does not think high-level play is broken, then you can do like I'll do and use mythic levels for post-20 play.
That's the beauty of it - it's designed so you can use it at whatever the sweet spot is for you as a GM.
Fair enough. I suppose the intent never was to 'fix' anything, since not everyone thinks it needs fixing. That was an unfair inquiry on my part, but not my intended meaning.
I think the problem I was trying to articulate (and rolled a natural 1 on that attempt) is that, if these problems are perceived by so many already then adding such high numbers to the game at any level only serves to make it worse. On the surface anyway.
I mean, 3d6+wtf cure light wounds spells (I think I read this on the first page of the thread)? That's a ridiculous jump.
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I think the major problem we have right now is related to having actual, concrete info. Hopefully given the magnitude of this bombshell they've dropped, the Paizo folks will give us some concrete info in the near future.
This really, really, really makes me sorry I never got far in any of the RPG Superstar contests. Of all the stuff Paizo has already put out and will be publishing in the future, this is the one thing I was really hoping to contribute to.
Man reading about these I'm pretty freakin pumped. Are we just getting one huge book with these rules, similar to the ELH 3.0 that covered the PC *and* monster side of things?
Yes. Mythic Adventures will cover pc tracks as well as have monsters and a sample adventure.
Help me understand what it is about these rules that is going to "fix" high level play. By my understanding, the game breaks down severely beyond 12th level (give or take a couple of levels, depending on who you ask). If mythic levels are taken alongside normal class levels (gestalt style?) and that increases the APL of the PCs, how is this patching that issue up?
Well, the way I understand it, and mind you this is just a guess based on everything I’ve been reading on these boards, it will help by allowing lower level characters to fight higher level opponents. This allows a GM to play with a group that say, doesn’t have teleport yet despite being the equivalent of 12th level characters (8 class levels plus 4 mythic levels).
The powers granted, and again this is just speculation, seem to be geared towards strong abilities that give characters fun things they can do without necessarily opening up the harder to deal with abilities such as teleportation and scrying (or at least not till they’d have it anyway through class levels). While a character still eventually gains these abilities, the creatures they are fighting will be considerably higher level by the time they have access to them and thus it’s easier for a GM to adjust, creature will have more options to thwart them, etc.
Again this is all speculation at this point, I’m really hoping one of the developers will hop on now that the weekend over and tell us everything that was said so we can get a better idea of how it all is suppose to work. I’m in the group that thinks it could be good or bad, it remains to be seen. That said, paizo has a pretty good track record so I’m cautiously optimistic and crossing my fingers.
I think the problem I was trying to articulate (and rolled a natural 1 on that attempt) is that, if these problems are perceived by so many already then adding such high numbers to the game at any level only serves to make it worse. On the surface anyway.
I mean, 3d6+wtf cure light wounds spells (I think I read this on the first page of the thread)? That's a ridiculous jump.
As for the powerful cure light wounds, remember the lower level characters wouldn't have access to higher level magic so the magic they did have would need a strong enough boost to compensate. After all my understanding is that the mythic levels grant hit points etc too so your lower level healing spells would need the boost to keep the party healed.
Full disclosure: I have not watched or heard a recording of the Mythic panel -- what I know is based on reading threads here on Paizo.com.
This sounds like a train wreck. At the very least, please please please get someone with a solid understanding of math and statistics (read: degree in math) involved in developing these rules.
It also sounds like I may have to drop my AP sub (again) after Shattered Star. Compromising the utility of your flagship product to everyone not interested in Mythic play seems like an odd decision...perhaps I am misunderstanding?
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See Bugly the problem is you are taking "The sky is falling!" knee jerk reaction approach to a product announcement that 1) we barely know anything about and 2) will be available for play testing. Why get all freaked out about it now?