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It might be worth a look, then. I'm not holding my breath.
Good plan. It's not coming out for twelve months.
yeah especially with a playtest to be going on and a year to roll it out if they get good useful feedback we should end up witha great product.
You know, some of the ideas for Mythic Rules may be a revamp of 15th level & up, rather than just post 20. Be nice to redo some of the capstones to 15th, since that seems to be the sweet spot as far as ending APs. Then Mythic can cover 15+, or a new level cap of like 30th level, or such.
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It might be worth a look, then. I'm not holding my breath.
With a year until release (GenCon 2013) I wouldn't suggest it :) There's going to be a public playtest "next month" (September / October?). We'll know more about it then. Or at least more about part of it anyway. Should be interesting.
*edit* Ninja'd by Steve... could be worse. *sigh* It is. 50 minutes. Well, I'm busy! Not senile! Really.
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Dale McCoy in his tweet mentioned (if I am reading correctly), they started testing the mythic rules with level 6 characters. So looks like there will be stuff in there for people who never even pass level 10
What I am hoping for is a way to give players level 13-20 something interesting to do. This is the real problem with play at this level, you are super powerful and you "break" the story if you continue to tell stories the same as you did in lower levels. If you now have more interesting options rather than just killing ever increasingly larger opponents this will mitigate much of the trouble I have had as a GM at higher levels.
Dale McCoy in his tweet mentioned (if I am reading correctly), they started testing the mythic rules with level 6 characters. So looks like there will be stuff in there for people who never even pass level 10
That sounds good. Might be a way to represent characters like Tomas from Midkemia and so forth (I would think Frodo would be another example too).
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Wow. Somewhere between "not level 21+", "3.5 Epic didn't work" and "Mythic usable at any level" Paizo managed to conjure my interest in a topic I usually ignore completely. Curiouser and curiouser...
Cool, isn't it :) I do hope that Steve is right above with his comment about Thomas.
In hindsight, it fits right in with some of the comments that James has made along the lines of epic being a style of play rather than really big numbers.
Why Frodo? He wasn't really anything special, he wasn't even the Hero of LotR. Sam was. The Hero is supposed to go on a great journey, over come all odds and stay true to his character, while maturing and developing in ways he never would have otherwise.
Sam does this, Frodo gives in and succumbs.
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Wow. Somewhere between "not level 21+", "3.5 Epic didn't work" and "Mythic usable at any level" Paizo managed to conjure my interest in a topic I usually ignore completely. Curiouser and curiouser...
Same here, was never a fan of how it has ever been done before. But the idea of mythic level play at low levels sounds interesting. I have some thoughts on how it might play out but no idea how they plan to make the mechanics work.
Why Frodo? He wasn't really anything special, he wasn't even the Hero of LotR. Sam was. The Hero is supposed to go on a great journey, over come all odds and stay true to his character, while maturing and developing in ways he never would have otherwise.
Sam does this, Frodo gives in and succumbs.
Sam too. They were both ordinary people doing epic things.
One thing I do hope dearly though, is that when it comes to "mythic" characters, regardless of if they are level 15 or 30, they lay of the whole "natural hero"/"supernatural hero" thing we have going with fighters/rogues/to some extent barbarians.
Just adding damage numbers and debuffs on critical won't make the fighter interesting at high levels. Now, if he could jump so hard he's basically flying and have enough toughness to use himself as a catapult & catapult bullet to jump through a reinforced wall, that would be interesting.
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I'm even more intrigued now. Mythic from level 6 onwards? I wonder if that means the Demon Blight Crusade AP will start at 6 then?
So Shattered Star then Reign of Winter before Mythic rules come out alongside the AP they star in? Hmm. Transatlantic flight to GenCon please!
Yea, the basic idea is that a god gives you some power or you get a hold of an artifact or something and despite being 6th level, you are taking on CR 9 monsters and that is now CR appropriate instead of it being a challenging fight.
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Hmm, well this sounds interesting. Dunno how much I feel about rules overlays for "powering up" characters in general... unless it provides some or all of the following three things:
1) closes the opportunity gap between nonspellcasters and spellcasters as the levels go up. As you go up in levels, it seems like spellcasters get more opportunities to develop nifty abilities the nonspellcasters have more trouble reaching (spells added to the spellbook, outsiders to summon or bind via spells, shapes to polymorph into, etc). If these rules allow the "doers" of the world (monks learning new techniques by studying at monasteries, warriors achieving new powers through feats of strength, etc) to aquire new shinies in something along the same fashion that spellcasters can, that would be nice.
2)inborn abilities (including perhaps a specific signature magical per player character that grow in power with the char) serving as replacements for much of the many loose, lower-power magical items that become a little too frequent as a person levels up, that would also be something I could get on board with. I'm something of a proponent of minimizing the smaller big 6 items so you can focus on the weird stuff with nifty abilities.
3) encounter/campaign design in league with #s 1 and 2 to eliminate bookwork (by eliminating redundant magical items usually needed to keep npcs to challenge pcs and to keep PC gear on track) and to allow for more diverse set of opponents and obstacles (nonspellcaster BBEGs, for example).
If they're going to make this mythic adventures thing into a toolbox of options, then they've got to walk a fine line to avoid the goldilocks effect (getting things just right for a majority of PF players). Things like finding the right amount of dm/player adjudication of the rules, etc. It is interesting to hear the rumors that it's been touted at level 6+ and that it's an overlay without changing the math (wonder if it's no coincidence that the popular e6 stops normal advancement at that level?)
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Yea, the basic idea is that a god gives you some power or you get a hold of an artifact or something and despite being 6th level, you are taking on CR 9 monsters and that is now CR appropriate instead of it being a challenging fight.
Extrapolating, that would mean that L20 characters would get the bump in power needed to have at least a chance at battling some of the demon lords etc. in print. Cool.
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At the products seminar today they mentioned that this would go into public play test soon. They wouldn't commit to a particular date but suggested that a month and a half from now might be feasible.
Personally, the way they described it seemed to be really cool by giving PCs (and monsters!) a touch of the divine without breaking the CR system. Jason Bulmahn suggested that "epic level" play (20+) is not under consideration and may not ever happen as he considers it to be stacking bad math on top of bad math. I have to agree that adding powers that let you bend or break the rules are more interesting than just stacking more numbers on top of the existing system.
If true, the Paizo may have found a way to make epic-style play something my group and I could stomach. Guess we'll see what the playtest reveals.
I'm happy we won't be seeing 40th & 100th-level characters, though.
The brief description which we've got of Mythic Rules doesn't quite sound like my cup of tea, but I'm looking forward to the playtest anyway. Maybe they can impress me ...
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I'm a bit disappointed we won't be seeing level 40 and level 100 characters. I hope they at least include some better guidelines on that end even if it isn't the main focus.
In so far that he was at the announcement seminar. Maybe he is though!
I think he is only tweeting all the stuff as it is announced at Gencon. That was my impression
So it sounds to me a 6th level PC will get an artifact or God given power that bumps him up to take on CR 9 challenges.
I'm a wait and see on this one, I'll pass judgement when it comes out.
I'm still in love with 1 to 12 pathfinder play as written, but who knows by next year I may be itching for a change.
I actually like the sound of this. One of my GMs likes giving his players 'epic' powers at low levels either because of a blessing from a god or because of an artifact. This could help him smooth out the power levels a bit.
A dangerous walk, this is.
Not sure if I have to rejoice about this matter, or rather be terrified.
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I'll go on record as saying I like the idea of this a lot more than adding another 20 levels, which I wouldn't have bought into in the slightest.
This? Well, I'll certainly be watching on eagerly to see what they do with a system such as this.
This is the best news I have heard all year regarding Pathfinder, and I have already heard a lot of good news. Kudos to the team for coming up with an inventive new system (that reminds me of the 3.5 version of Epic Destinies from Wizards, which was a superior idea to epic levels, in my opinion).
I cannot wait to see the playtest. Thank you so much for the opportunity to see these rules crafted!
This sounds excellent. Paizo never ceases to satisfy.
OMG... They are playing with dynamite. Did pathfinder just announce the product that will (potentially) end Pathfinder? I am glad they gave a heads up. I am now ending all purchases of Pathfinder products till I see if this is going to be good (and blow a hole in the level cap obstacle in front of the tracks) or kill the franchise (by blowing up in their faces).
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Really...you think this product will completely destroy pathfinder? a tad melodramatic at this point, given hardly anything is revealed yet about it
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OMG... They are playing with dynamite. Did pathfinder just announce the product that will (potentially) end Pathfinder? I am glad they gave a heads up. I am now ending all purchases of Pathfinder products till I see if this is going to be good (and blow a hole in the level cap obstacle in front of the tracks) or kill the franchise (by blowing up in their faces).
Whut?
Will mythic rules automatically negate the APG, or Rise of the Runelords or ultimate equipment?
I can understand not wanting to purchase this product and take the wait-and-see approach, but cancelling all purchases? That makes no sense. If you don't like or want Mythic Rules then don't use them. Your game still remains the same.
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Just came out of the development workshop at Gen Con where they dropped some serious info on mythic play. Info dump:
Mythic play is an overlay to the existing system to grant extra powers and abilities while trying to avoid providing straight numerical bonuses. It is also going to be setup so GMs can pick and choose the parts they want to include in their campaign.
PCs can gain Mythic levels in six different paths which range from levels one to ten. PCs will level through deeds and not from experience points.
Mythic levels are geared so that mythic beings will have roughly half their regular levels in mythic levels. (e.g. a level 10 PC could have around 5 mythic levels and would be roughly equivalent to a normal level 15 character in overall power).
There are six mythic paths to choose from: Archmage (Arcane magic emphasis), Heirophant (Divine magic emphasis), Champion (Melee Abilities), Warden (Ranged/Ranger abilities? Not totally sure here), Trickster (Rogue-ish), and Marshall (Grants bonuses to others).
A PC selects one of the above paths and cannot "multi-class" but there are opportunities to select abilities from other paths.
Mythic PCs will gain mythic power points they can spend to gain a wide variety of abilities: One example given is that they can spend points to add an extra die roll after results are revealed. Say you roll a save and miss. You could spend a point to roll a d6 (the size of the die would increase with your mythic level) and add it to your previous result.
There will be mythic spells. They will essentially be powered up versions of existing spells. This was done to not hose sorcerors and oracles since they require the usage of mythic power points to cast. Examples: Magic Missile ( Extra damage and goes through shield spells), Fireball (10d10 max + burn), CLW (3d6+2xlevel+ heal 1 pt ability dmg)).
They intend to include powerful legacy weapons that power up with the character (ala Stormbringer or Excalibur. Think full blown artifacts at high levels).
The Mythic Adventures book will be all inclusive. Will include rules for building PCs and monsters, a mini-bestiary, and most likely an adventure too.
That's mainly what I had in my notes. I am *really* excited about this myself.
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OMG... They are playing with dynamite. Did pathfinder just announce the product that will (potentially) end Pathfinder? I am glad they gave a heads up. I am now ending all purchases of Pathfinder products till I see if this is going to be good (and blow a hole in the level cap obstacle in front of the tracks) or kill the franchise (by blowing up in their faces).
Duuuuuude, can I smoke some of your stuff?
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OMG... They are playing with dynamite. Did pathfinder just announce the product that will (potentially) end Pathfinder? I am glad they gave a heads up. I am now ending all purchases of Pathfinder products till I see if this is going to be good (and blow a hole in the level cap obstacle in front of the tracks) or kill the franchise (by blowing up in their faces).Duuuuuude, can I smoke some of your stuff?
I have no idea what he's talking about or where this is coming from. I really wonder what he thinks this is going to be?
have they been playing DND next?
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Interesting, I wonder if this will allow for the statting up of characters like Baba Yaga, Nex, and Tar-Baphon (the Whispering Tyrant).
I think that is exactly what they have in mind. The Demon Blight Crusade will use the mythic rules and they suggested that the PCs will be able to battle actual Demon Lords by the end. They suggested that someone with 9 or 10 mythic levels is more or less a demigod well on their way to ascending to become a true deity.
OMG... They are playing with dynamite. Did pathfinder just announce the product that will (potentially) end Pathfinder? I am glad they gave a heads up. I am now ending all purchases of Pathfinder products till I see if this is going to be good (and blow a hole in the level cap obstacle in front of the tracks) or kill the franchise (by blowing up in their faces).
Let me get this straight, you're boycotting all Pathfinder products because a book might suck later (which doesn't even affect current releases at all)?? You know that's not how voting with your wallet actually works, right?
Just came out of the development workshop at Gen Con where they dropped some serious info on mythic play. Info dump: . . . snip . . .
I'm doing my best to remain calm and not jump around like an 8-year-old going to Disneyland. That being said, I'm looking forward to the playtest with eager glee. I never doubted Paizo's ability to pull off Epic/Mythic levels and I'm glad to see my faith seems to be validated.
James mentioned before he liked the old-school tone of BECMI (hence why 36 always came up a suspected number for level cap). The six mythic paths definitely remind me of the themes from Immortal even though the rules will be quite different. I salute this decision.
Interesting, I wonder if this will allow for the statting up of characters like Baba Yaga, Nex, and Tar-Baphon (the Whispering Tyrant).I think that is exactly what they have in mind. The Demon Blight Crusade will use the mythic rules and they suggested that the PCs will be able to battle actual Demon Lords by the end. They suggested that someone with 9 or 10 mythic levels is more or less a demigod well on their well to ascending to being a true deity.
And the best part is that the full rules will release right after Reign of Winter, which means that you could the rules for the Continuing the Campaign section. . . looks like Baba Yaga really could be the final BBEG if you wanted.
I think that is exactly what they have in mind. The Demon Blight Crusade will use the mythic rules and they suggested that the PCs will be able to battle actual Demon Lords by the end. They suggested that someone with 9 or 10 mythic levels is more or less a demigod well on their way to ascending to become a true deity.Ambitious, but I'm sure if anyone can pull it off it's Paizo. I think I'll ceremonially beat the 3.0 Epic Level Handbook to death with the Mythic Rulebook when it comes out.
I'd like to see a video of that. It would be hilarious for a group of people in black robes to have the ELH on a pseudo-altar, raise their Mythic Rulebooks high and slam them down as one.
Well, with the extra info it sounds like there will be no real 20+ info here; however, it also sounds like the system would be easy to tweak to expand existing classes to 30 levels (basically mixing the mythic levels into the base level progression). I really hope they make such an option official (note option for those that don't want 20+), but either way, I'm interested.
Edit: Bah, I always want to push the horizon back further, so if someone with 10 mythic levels is a demigod, how much longer will it be before we have rules for ascention and deities? :P (Actually, I'm fine with the deities remaining statless or operating on a completely different set of rules, so I'm not actually waiting for such a release.)
I have mixed feelings abot this one but we have a year to go so who knows how it will turn out when it is a finished product.
I would rather have abilities that add more feats, skill points, class skills, class abilities(like sorcerer bloodline abilities), more max HP(maybe even max HP per level), better saves, stat boost, no more need for most boosting magic items(like cloaks of resistance, rings of protection, etc.)gaining special abilities like fast healing, immunities, constant spell effects like see invisible/tongues,spell like abilities, weapon special properties added to weapon or unarmed strike(monk).etc.