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When is the Additional Resources page going to be updated for Advanced Class Origins? I need to know if some of the resources in there are legal for play or not.Probably in a few weeks.
I hope it's before the first weekend in November for the local shop's next Society session, that's all. :) Thanks.
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Not sure if this has been reported yet but
Pathfinder Player Companion: Dragon Empires Primer
Archetypes: all archetypes on pages 22-23; Feats: kitsune feats on page 5 are legal for kitsune characters; all feats on pages 24-25; Gods: All gods listed on pages 26-27; Other: Oni Bloodline, Void elemental school; Races: To create a kitsune, nagaji, or wayang character, you must have a Chronicle sheet that opens the race as a legal option at character creation. Spells: call the void; Subdomains: Moon; Traits: all traits on pages 8-21 except Chosen Child and Rebel Leader.
Probably missed in editing
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Sigh.
Showing updated today, but still doesn't indicate the date of the change for aasimars / tieflings requiring a chronicle so that players who play grandfathered races aren't expected to show a non-existent chronicle.
Mike/John, I hate to ask, but if one of you can address... is this intentional or a consistent oversight?
-TimD
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The Additional Resources page has been updated with July releases and changes.
On the Additional Resources Page, where it refers to "Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Seekers of Secrets
Everything in this book is legal for play with the following notes. Equipment: ioun stones use method 1 for resonance and never use method 2. Additionally, only normal ioun stones have resonance—inferior ioun stones never do. Advanced ioun stones are not legal for play. Prestige Class: Pathfinder Savants replace the item creation feat prerequisite with Spell Focus."
Is it actually talking about "Pathfinder Chronicles: Seekers of Secrets—A Guide to the Pathfinder Society (PFRPG)"?
Because I can't find a product named "Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Seekers of Secrets" If I search for this, the other comes up at the top of the list.
On the Additional Resources Page, where it refers to "Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Seekers of Secrets
Everything in this book is legal for play with the following notes. Equipment: ioun stones use method 1 for resonance and never use method 2. Additionally, only normal ioun stones have resonance—inferior ioun stones never do. Advanced ioun stones are not legal for play. Prestige Class: Pathfinder Savants replace the item creation feat prerequisite with Spell Focus."
Is it actually talking about "Pathfinder Chronicles: Seekers of Secrets—A Guide to the Pathfinder Society (PFRPG)"?
Because I can't find a product named "Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Seekers of Secrets" If I search for this, the other comes up at the top of the list.
Yes, it is referring to the Pathfinder Chronicles: Seeker of Secrets. A while back the campaign setting and chronicles lines were merged - both are now the "campaign setting" line.
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More specifically, some Animal Companion options seemed to have disappeared recently from the Bestiaries, with no red-letter changes to the entries.
That actually affected someone I ran for last night. They had a spinosaurus. Not having ever seen that companion and not seeing anything saying they ever were legal made me wonder. Changes like that need to be spelled out very clearly.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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I mean, fine, if they think it's quite powerful, it should have been banned a long time ago. But I know my character isn't the only one that's been around for YEARS with her faithful sidekick the spinosaurus... in character it will be really hard to explain her getting a different companion.
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Umm guys... I checked a version I have saved from March 2013, and Spinosaurus is not listed as legal from Bestiary 3.
Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 3
Animal Companions (p. 311): antelope, axe beak, dimetrodon, elk, giant chameleon, giant gecko, giant vulture, kangaroo, pachycephalosaurus, thylacine; Familiars:...
If they changed it, they changed it years ago. There is a simpler explanation though...
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Umm guys... I checked a version I have saved from March 2013, and Spinosaurus is not listed as legal from Bestiary 3.
If they changed it, they changed it years ago. There is a simpler explanation though...Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 3
Animal Companions (p. 311): antelope, axe beak, dimetrodon, elk, giant chameleon, giant gecko, giant vulture, kangaroo, pachycephalosaurus, thylacine; Familiars:...
The player themselves is the one that pointed out it had recently changed. That got me wondering why it didnt seem like it had. Now I know why.
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Umm guys... I checked a version I have saved from March 2013, and Spinosaurus is not listed as legal from Bestiary 3.
If they changed it, they changed it years ago. There is a simpler explanation though...Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 3
Animal Companions (p. 311): antelope, axe beak, dimetrodon, elk, giant chameleon, giant gecko, giant vulture, kangaroo, pachycephalosaurus, thylacine; Familiars:...The player themselves is the one that pointed out it had recently changed. That got me wondering why it didnt seem like it had. Now I know why.
Thanks Majuba. I suppose we all should get in the habit of saving old copies as well for comparisons. There has to be a better way to manage this though. The AR list is not very easy to use in my opinion.
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That can't be right, though. I'm practically a Nazi when it comes to checking legality, and I didn't notice it, either.
And across 3 threads now, it seems a lot of people have been surprised by this.
Not to mention all the threads over the last year talking about the Spinosaurus (and others), and nobody pointing out they were illegal.
I'll have to start printing out the AR each month now, I suppose. I thought having it on my phone would suffice.
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It might be a little bit ugly, but could you (Chris) consider marking stuff that's removed with a method like this:
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Bestiary 3
Animal Companions (p. 311): antelope, axe beak, dimetrodon, elk, giant chameleon, giant gecko, giant vulture, kangaroo, pachycephalosaurus, thylacine; Familiars: all familiars listed on pages 112-113 and the carbuncle and sprite; Feats: none of the feats are legal for play for PCs, animal companions, or familiars unless specifically granted by another legal source; Other: all creatures in this book are legal for polymorph effects (including a druid's wild shape ability) within the boundaries of each spell or ability's parameters.-Spinosaurus, [insert other removals here] are no longer legal for play.
The positive side is that you get a very clear record that someone was previously legal but was removed, which might be helpful for people who were using the content before it was made illegal. The downside is that it may get a bit cluttered over time.
Any other ideas?
It might be a little bit ugly, but could you (Chris) consider marking stuff that's removed with a method like this:
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Bestiary 3
Animal Companions (p. 311): antelope, axe beak, dimetrodon, elk, giant chameleon, giant gecko, giant vulture, kangaroo, pachycephalosaurus, thylacine; Familiars: all familiars listed on pages 112-113 and the carbuncle and sprite; Feats: none of the feats are legal for play for PCs, animal companions, or familiars unless specifically granted by another legal source; Other: all creatures in this book are legal for polymorph effects (including a druid's wild shape ability) within the boundaries of each spell or ability's parameters.-Spinosaurus, [insert other removals here] are no longer legal for play.
The positive side is that you get a very clear record that someone was previously legal but was removed, which might be helpful for people who were using the content before it was made illegal. The downside is that it may get a bit cluttered over time.
Any other ideas?
Ultimately, this is a decision that needs to come from a different part of the chain than myself for updates (I don't have any involvement in actually generating the Additional Resources text, so I'm not the best authority to know what's been changed). I'll forward the suggestion on, though :)
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Ultimately, this is a decision that needs to come from a different part of the chain than myself for updates (I don't have any involvement in actually generating the Additional Resources text, so I'm not the best authority to know what's been changed). I'll forward the suggestion on, though :)
Ah, I see. But thank you!
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So um are waynag, kitsune, and nagaji legal races? I see that isn't the case. Same with grandfathering aasimar/tiefling.
Well, in the ARG section of the AR, they are no longer listed as being restricted to needing a boon, while the Aasimar and Tiefling are. One could interprate that to mean that they are PFS legal.
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Thanks Majuba. I suppose we all should get in the habit of saving old copies as well for comparisons. There has to be a better way to manage this though. The AR list is not very easy to use in my opinion.
My pleasure.
For what it's worth, Bestiary 3 is actually older than this thread (~Dec 2011 vs. July 2012), and I haven't found any older copy of Additional Resources. I *do* believe it was outside of the Guide by that point at least.... OH!
Found one from July 18th, 2012, and it *does* include Spinosaurus:
Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 3
Animal Companions (p. 311): antelope, archelon, axe beak, baluchitherium, basilosaurus, dimetrodon, elk, giant chameleon, giant gecko, giant vulture, iguanodon, kangaroo, megalania, pachycephalosaurus, spinosaurus, thylacine; Familiars:
Removed: archelon, baluchitherium, basilosaurus, iguanodon, megalania, spinosaurus. (Sometime between July 18th 2012 and March 27th 2013.)
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Don't know how many of you this affects, but Hero Lab shows the Spinosaurus as PFS-legal which is likely contributing to the confusion.
Even Archives of Nethys show it as legal.
Most of the time removals get some notice (like retirement of the old Campaign Setting feats and such). I suppose barring a more formal declaration, removal from Additional Resources constitutes a legality change that would let you rebuild your animal companion. But I'd certain suggest anyone who had it at/prior to July 18 '12 might want to see if some grandfathering language might get added.
Thanks for passing on the request Chris!
(Chris - you don't happen to have access to the older PDFs for Additional Resources, dated between 20120718 and 20130327?)
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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Ultimately, this is a decision that needs to come from a different part of the chain than myself for updates (I don't have any involvement in actually generating the Additional Resources text, so I'm not the best authority to know what's been changed). I'll forward the suggestion on, though :)It might be a little bit ugly, but could you (Chris) consider marking stuff that's removed with a method like this:
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Bestiary 3
Animal Companions (p. 311): antelope, axe beak, dimetrodon, elk, giant chameleon, giant gecko, giant vulture, kangaroo, pachycephalosaurus, thylacine; Familiars: all familiars listed on pages 112-113 and the carbuncle and sprite; Feats: none of the feats are legal for play for PCs, animal companions, or familiars unless specifically granted by another legal source; Other: all creatures in this book are legal for polymorph effects (including a druid's wild shape ability) within the boundaries of each spell or ability's parameters.-Spinosaurus, [insert other removals here] are no longer legal for play.
The positive side is that you get a very clear record that someone was previously legal but was removed, which might be helpful for people who were using the content before it was made illegal. The downside is that it may get a bit cluttered over time.
Any other ideas?
I kind of use this thread as my major change-log :-p
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Venture-Captain, Washington—Spokane
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Don't know how many of you this affects, but Hero Lab shows the Spinosaurus as PFS-legal which is likely contributing to the confusion.Even Archives of Nethys show it as legal.
Most of the time removals get some notice (like retirement of the old Campaign Setting feats and such). I suppose barring a more formal declaration, removal from Additional Resources constitutes a legality change that would let you rebuild your animal companion. But I'd certain suggest anyone who had it at/prior to July 18 '12 might want to see if some grandfathering language might get added.
Thanks for passing on the request Chris!
(Chris - you don't happen to have access to the older PDFs for Additional Resources, dated between 20120718 and 20130327?)
I have kept some in different areas of my computer. I can send you anything I might have in that date range. Please PM me with your E-Mail and I can send what I have, provided I am not violating anything by doing so. Thanks.
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My lovely spinosaurus has been converted into an allosaurus instead. Luckily they look relatively similar. :-PNot sure if trolling or just don't know.
Allosaurus is no longer on the allowed list either.
I has a sad. Yeah.. I didn't realize it was also not allowed. FML.
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Don't know how many of you this affects, but Hero Lab shows the Spinosaurus as PFS-legal which is likely contributing to the confusion.Even Archives of Nethys show it as legal.
Most of the time removals get some notice (like retirement of the old Campaign Setting feats and such). I suppose barring a more formal declaration, removal from Additional Resources constitutes a legality change that would let you rebuild your animal companion. But I'd certain suggest anyone who had it at/prior to July 18 '12 might want to see if some grandfathering language might get added.
Thanks for passing on the request Chris!
(Chris - you don't happen to have access to the older PDFs for Additional Resources, dated between 20120718 and 20130327?)
Since I've talked with our Lord Nethys before, and know he's running the Archives as a one man show, if anyone spots things that are no longer (or are newly) legal for PFS, maybe shoot him an email too?
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Orcs of Golarion:
Additional Resources states that all feats on pages 24-25 are legal except Destroyer's Blessing and Fire God's Blessing. Ferocious Tenacity is listed on those pages and is therefor legal.
Advanced Race Guide:
Additional resources states that all half-orc feats are legal for play. Ferocious Tenacity is one printed inside and therefor legal.
The same pattern presents itself with the scorpion whip from Adventurer's Armory and Ultimate Combat. In all of the above cases, there are old printings and new printings but both are specifically called out as being currently legal. In other cases, old printings of an ability are stated as no longer legal and to use the newest version. As reference, Faiths of Purity no longer allows any of the feats printed within as legal. Players are told to use Inner Sea God's instead. This is not the only instance, Position Land of Pharoahs does the same thing, specifically requiring a conversion to information in other material.
With no other information on the additional resources page to adjudicate this, am I correct in assuming that I can use either option even if a different (or newer) version has been printed and both versions are still currently legal?
The table variation on UC's scorpion whip is an utter nightmare and the weapon is poorly written. Nobody knows how it actually works. But the AA version is pretty straightforward and simple, even if older.
The original Ferocious Tenacity is pretty strong and useful but gobbles up your rage rounds something harsh. The later printing of the same feat is difficult to justify taking up a feat slot.
Is there a ruling related to this, I don't know about? I would obviously rather pick the more useful/sane versions. The hearsay is that you GI with the newest but in this case that isn't helpful for GM's or players. So I am looking for whatever the official stance might be before I show up to a table thinking a character or build works one way when it may not work at all.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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I've heard before that if something is printed in multiple legal sources (like the scorpion whip in AA and UE), that you should use the last-printed source. People recite this rule as if it were carved in stone somewhere.
However, what stone is it carved in? I'd like to do some close reading on it. Because it creates a weird situation when
AA is a legal source for the scorpion whip, but the AA text is not a legal source for it.
If we're only supposed to use the latest printing (when the item is different, anyway), why is the other source still legal?
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Global Organized Play Coordinator
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I've heard before that if something is printed in multiple legal sources (like the scorpion whip in AA and UE), that you should use the last-printed source. People recite this rule as if it were carved in stone somewhere.
However, what stone is it carved in? I'd like to do some close reading on it. Because it creates a weird situation when
AA is a legal source for the scorpion whip, but the AA text is not a legal source for it.If we're only supposed to use the latest printing (when the item is different, anyway), why is the other source still legal?
Because it is a big document, some things were placed in it before I got on the job, and I sometimes forget that there is an earlier entry, I will try to get it cleaned up before the next release.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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Because it is a big document, some things were placed in it before I got on the job, and I sometimes forget that there is an earlier entry, I will try to get it cleaned up before the next release.I've heard before that if something is printed in multiple legal sources (like the scorpion whip in AA and UE), that you should use the last-printed source. People recite this rule as if it were carved in stone somewhere.
However, what stone is it carved in? I'd like to do some close reading on it. Because it creates a weird situation when
AA is a legal source for the scorpion whip, but the AA text is not a legal source for it.If we're only supposed to use the latest printing (when the item is different, anyway), why is the other source still legal?
Hey, that's great :)
But in this specific case, would you take a look at the scorpion whip in AA and UE specifically before deciding to only keep the UE one? There are some good reasons to think that the UE text is flawed while the older AA text is much better-written.
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This does not bode well for my munchkiny plans. Oh well.
I would much rather have a clear understanding before making a character, especially now that all my characters are specifically designed to have 0 table variation and 0 GM's telling me 'you can't do that' or 'at my table, this ability you rely on and have had reviewed by the vl, will work differently than you planed or were told'.
I have 8 registered society characters, one is a dead pregen, and two are first level (but one of the first levels has already been erata'd).
Every single one of my remaining 5 are subject to table variation, weeks of gm verification and deliberation, ad hoc rulings etc. So now I go simple and rules obvious and try not to use things without a super clear and direct answer or reference. Seeing two versions of something as legal would absolutely create the very table variation and 'I don't like what you're doing so I'm going to adjust how it works' rulings I've grown too familiar with.
Man, this sounds like a gripe. :D
Anywau, the point is that it would be much appreciated to know what's what and I appreciate you taking the time to look into it Michael.
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Has there been any talk of stuff from Champions of Corruption being made legal? I have just the character for some Nidalese piercings and I'd love to design a martyr LG cavalier who gives his allies betrayal teamwork feats and takes the hit to give them a bonus in combat..
BETRAY ME, DAMN YOU! BETRAAAAAAY MEEEEEE!
Has there been any talk of stuff from Champions of Corruption being made legal? I have just the character for some Nidalese piercings and I'd love to design a martyr LG cavalier who gives his allies betrayal teamwork feats and takes the hit to give them a bonus in combat..
This was posted earlier today
ACG Origins will be entered into the next update next week. Champions of Corruption will likely not be allowed immediately and needs further scrutiny.