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Yeah, I had to take Imp Unarmed Strike as a feat tax and waste a lot of skills on acrobatics, but I think it was worth it. I got DM approval on the armor, though.
But I mean, isn't it rather fitting for an allosaurus to take Dragon Style?
Yes... Yes it is!
Now I want my Animal Companion to learn Gangnam Style...
What role would the dino shaman play in the group?
Your standard-action dino summons fill the role of battlefield control, tank, and also do decent damage. Druid has some nice battlefield control spells, some nice blasty spells, and some nice utility spells.
I can probably count on one hand the number of times I Wild Shaped in the whole campaign (which went levels 12-20.)
My druid was amazing at crowd-control type situations, because with Augment Summoning and Superior Summoning you can spam a lot of tough dinos, and then you have spells like Geyser, Wall of Stone, and Tar Pool for battlefield control and spells like Flame Strike, Fire Snake and Fire Storm for blasting. I got a lot of mileage out of Stone Tell, Mass Fly, Barkskin, Scrying, and Dispel Magic.
I was less powerful when facing a single BBEG than when facing multiple targets (at least until I got Euphoric Tranquility,) but the paladin made up for that (she regularly did upwards of 300 damage on a crit.) One definite limitation is overcoming DR with your dinosaurs, so it can be tough to do lots of damage to a single target (even after my GM gave me all the [X]light Summons feats for free as a boon, overcoming DR is still not always easy.)
Great info, Rufus! What race were you?
Gnome. In fact it was an all-gnome campaign. (Thankfully druids (and shamans in particular) don't need a very high casting stat because they can focus on summoning.)
That must have been pretty fun!
Hahah yeah it was great! Lots of hilarious characters - the monk who used mangoes as his only weapon (and source of spiritual inspiration,) the spellscar oracle that used a Rod of Wonder as his primary weapon (with the ability to roll 4 times and take his favorite result,) the roc-riding paladin, and the bard/DD who loved to transform into a dragon. I played the druid obsessed with fossils (hence my penchant for casting Stone Tell at every possible opportunity.)
In our games, Dragon Shamans treat Dinosaurs as Lizards because nothing with a name as cool as Dragon Shaman should be stuck never turning into anything remotely close to a dragon.
In our games, Dragon Shamans treat Dinosaurs as Lizards because nothing with a name as cool as Dragon Shaman should be stuck never turning into anything remotely close to a dragon.
Yeah, it's pretty silly that the only way a Dragon Shaman can turn into a dragon is take the Animal Domain, and even then they can't do it until they hit 17th level.
...holy s*~%, this is the worst-designed archetype I've ever seen. It's a straight upgrade. It's better than the druid in every way, except it loses Venom Immunity (which is a cheap tradeoff most archetypes utilize). Everything else is a bonus. There is no meaningful drawback to being a Saurian Shaman, and the benefits are huge.
- Large-sized dinosaur wild shape at level 4.
- Huge-sized dinosaur wild shape at level 6.
- Summoner-level dinosaur summoning, plus temporary hit points.
- Melee buffs like "+2 natural armor" and "claw/claw/bite/rake". At level 2.
- A really good Wild Empathy ability that, frankly, would be worth the cost of admission on its own.
- Bonus feats! Just, y'know, because! It didn't have enough already!
I am shocked. I've been letting a player use this archetype for months and only just checked it to try to work out why he was so effortlessly dominating combats.
I am not exaggerating: I had more hesitation banning the Master Summoner and Synthesist Summoner archetypes than I had banning this one.
The idea that, "You can only have dinosaur animal companions, and it's hard to turn into non-dinosaurs," is a real drawback is so bizarre. It's like Aragorn saying, "P-please, I'll give up my sword to enter Theoden's halls, but mightn't I at least keep my loaded machine gun?"
And they go, "Well, I guess as long as he won't have the sword..."
Thousand Faces is replaced by Totemic Summons. I know, weird. A 5th level ability replacing a 13th level ability.
- Gauss
This is actually not correct. That's how it works for the Dragon Shaman, but no text specifies that for the Saurian Shaman.
Arg! I'm arguing with Gauss From Five Years Ago! That's how you know I'm right peeved!
EDIT: And I'm probably losing the argument, because there is some debatable implication that it does "function like the dragon shaman's totemic summons ability." Which only vindicates my opinion that it's a very badly-written archetype, but hey, wrong is wrong and wrong is me.
It's a terrible trade, though. Messy, doesn't affect the druid for eight levels, and it's trading a neat, largely flavorful utility ability for a straight combat buff. This archetype is designed for combat druids, and combat druids won't care that they can't use different faces because it was a flavor ability to begin with.
- Large-sized dinosaur wild shape at level 4.
I don't know too much about the rest of your complaints about it, but I'm pretty sure this just should not be happening, since Druid Shaman archetypes don't get Wild shape until 6th level.
That was another of those badly written abilities.
At 6th level, a saurian shaman’s wild shape ability functions at her druid level –2. If she takes on the form of a reptile or a dinosaur, she instead uses her druid level +2.
It didn't explain what their wild shape ability did at levels 4 to 5. (I'm pretty sure you're right that they aren't supposed to get it at all until 6th.)
Best thing about these guys is the ability to summon as a Standard Action. So instead of standing still for a whole round hoping not to get your concentration disrupted, you just cast and immediately you've got another meat shield helping you fight.
Best thing about these guys is the ability to summon as a Standard Action. So instead of standing still for a whole round hoping not to get your concentration disrupted, you just cast and immediately you've got another meat shield helping you fight.
One of the guides to druids saw the author going orgasmic about the power of the summons available to the saurian shaman.
Of course being able to cast SNA as a standard action is great. And the ability to add templates gives you more flexibility. But what the Saurian Shaman has over other shamans is that their are lots of dinosaurs, giving you great utility.
While the author may be a bit over enthusiastic, I think they are fundamentally right.
It's super fun.
YES you still get one more wild shape (I assume) if you turn into dinos (but what if you turn into something else as well?), and you get bonus feats from level 9/13/17 (and perhaps at level 21 and onwards, but I've never tried that) instead of venom immunity. But Wild Shape stalls due to lack of more awesome archetype dinos (remember that it is not allowed to transform into a modified version) with benefits that compare to the access to magical creatures, elementals and plants.
Yes, but there are certain considerations there- most people just turn into tigers and birds.
Elementals can be great options, but most of the time they are more defensive (air elemental being the prime example). If you are going into dinosaur druidism, you are probably playing a melee build (because velociraptors).
Plants are usually picked for gimmick tricks- such as that one with really long reach. A bit of a loss- but you are mostly getting fast summons. So worth it.
I am not sure what magical beasts add in terms of combat power- you only get the abilities listed on beast shape anyway. I am sure you can find some perfect monster from magical beasts that could be useful (since the type has room to mess with anatomy), but it is still hard to compare to the average pouncer if you are just going to attack.
You are a full caster with a bunch of extra stuff added on. You'll be fine.
I haven’t played a Druid since 3.5 and then only to about 5th level. My group is going to be playing through Skull and Shackles.
What are people’s thoughts on Saurian Shaman Druids? The archetype seems to allow you to be flexible in your Wild Shapes, the DM says Pterosaurs are ‘close enough’ to dinos to count, plus there’s the various sea snakes, swimming dinos and so forth. Have you tried it and has it worked for you? If not, was there anything you didn’t like?
What is the class’s power level like? We will have one or two munchkin-ey types who will be optimized to hell and back, one who will design something to fit an interesting concept and a few others who may or may not be optimized. Will a Saurian Shaman feel weak and useless, or will it be able to at least stay within shouting distance of the power gamers?
Thanks!
There is a decent amount of fighting in the water, including most of two dungeons and parts of a couple more, but a flyer could be handy for ship to ship combat. And there is a lot of that too. Although most of the ship to ship combats felt stupidly easy.
A druid would probably be great in this AP and can easily solve a lot of flying, climbing, and swimming problems with wild shape.
IMHO the Saurian Shaman as defined by Pazio by today's rules sucks and turns out a HUGE disappointment to the players - at least if they follow the rules. Up to level eight, the class is great. But hereafter it stalls drastically. Why? Because the two primary advantages of the Saurian Shaman is "Wild Shape" (Which you get at level six) and the ability to summon dinos with "Summon Nature's Ally".
But "Wild Shape" for a druid is described as following:"At eight level, a druid can use wild shape to change into a Huge or Diminutive animal, a medium elemental or a small or medium plant creature. When taking the form of animals, a druid's wild shape now functions as beast shape III...
At tenth level, a druid can use wild shape to change into a large elemental or a large plant creature...."
The effect for a Saurian Shaman is as following: At 4th level the Saurian Shaman DOESN'T get wild shape.
This is outbalanced at 6th level, where a Saurian Shaman can use Wild Shape with dinos as if she was really level 8 or as other animals as if she was level 4. Awesome!
But then the class stalls again when she turns level 8, since her wild shape doesn't follow magical beasts, plants or elementals. The effect is from here on that the Saurian Shaman uses wild shape at 2 levels lower for ALL the new, awesome creatures - unless you stay as a dino that at max is huge in size.
I think this is focusing too much on wild shape.
Even here the Saurian Shaman eventually gets a bunch of feats that other druids don't get. That is going to compensate to a large degree for a lot of what you lose in wild shape flexibility.
And any druid is still a full prepared caster, no small thing.
The ability to summon dinosaurs or reptiles as a std action, and add templates to them to fine tune summons is exceptionally powerful.
Eh....Lion shaman has a window of levels, where the summons are slightly better damage wise. However their summoning caps out at level 13 where saurian shaman gets to summon a giant advanced T-rex with level SNA-9 They also have a lot more useful summons. multiple giant stegasauri for tripping, or giant advanced ankylosauri for trying to stunlock an enemy. Flying summons to carry the party, etc etc etc.
Saurian shaman and goliath druid probably fight it out for the two best druid archetypes, and probably top 10 in game.
Yes. And I keep meaning to play one and never get around to it.
The Saurian Shaman seems to be good at nearly all levels too. It is just levels 4 and 5 where the other druids are wild shaping and you are not where you come up short.
I know a lot less about the goliath druid. I have a question about these. How far does getting hold of a giant mask go in turning another druid into effectively a goliath druid +?
Yes. And I keep meaning to play one and never get around to it.
The Saurian Shaman seems to be good at nearly all levels too. It is just levels 4 and 5 where the other druids are wild shaping and you are not where you come up short.
I know a lot less about the goliath druid. I have a question about these. How far does getting hold of a giant mask go in turning another druid into effectively a goliath druid +?
Goliath druids get some pretty useful summons, and to begin to compete you need a greater mask of giants, so a 90k outlay, id say its a patch but the actual archetype does you better. Your wild shape is very likely at giant form 2 well before you can reasonably afford a greater mask.
Interesting.
As far as I can see, an archetypeless druid with a mask of giants gets what a goliath druid does at level 6 except " If the form has the aquatic subtype, she gains the aquatic and amphibious subtypes."
The two descriptions are the same except that sentence does not appear in the mask's text.
And an archetypeless druid with a greater mask of giants gets what a goliath druid does at level 12 except still does not get. "If the form has the aquatic subtype, she gains the aquatic and amphibious subtypes."
And an archetypeless druid ho wants to get what a goliath druid does at level 14 is a greedy individual who is out of luck.
The masks still look very good, expensive as the greater one is. The other druid retains a lot of goodness the goliath druid gave up.
Yes but Wealth by Level is a thing, Following the guidelines on wealth by level, the archetypeless druid gets a lesser mask around level 11 or 12, and the greater mask between level 16 and 17 sometime.
Most gms aren't handing out 30k gp magic items at level 6 The goliath druid gets its benefits roughly 5 levels before a player should expect to afford a mask of giants.
I might be missing some things here, but the masks seem to be just generally weaker than the actual giant form spells. Abilities are missing and the forms are locked to just ogre, troll, fire giant, frost giant, and stone giant. The masks are a good option for the non-Goliath, but they are not on par.
This wooden mask depicts a leering humanoid with an oversized nose and ears. If the wearer has the wild shape class feature, the mask allows her to use wild shape to take the form of a humanoid with the giant subtype. The forms allowed by a lesser mask of giants are ogre, troll, fire giant, frost giant, and stone giant. If the form has any of the following abilities, the wearer gains the listed ability: darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision, scent. In giant form, the wearer gains a +4 size bonus to Strength, a –2 penalty to Dexterity, and a +1 natural armor bonus.
...
A greater mask of giants has all the powers of a lesser mask of giants, plus it grants additional abilities in giant form. If the form has any of the following abilities, the wearer gains the listed ability: rend (2d6 damage), regeneration 5 (acid or fire), rock catching, rock throwing (range 60 feet, 2d6 damage). If the chosen giant form has immunity or resistance to any energy type, the wearer gains resistance 20 to that energy type when in giant form. If the giant form has vulnerability to an energy type, the wearer gains that vulnerability when in giant form. In giant form, the wearer gains a +6 size bonus to Strength, a –2 penalty to Dexterity, a +4 size bonus to Constitution, and a +4 natural armor bonus.
When you cast this spell you can assume the form of any Large humanoid creature of the giant subtype. Once you assume your new form, you gain the following abilities: a +6 size bonus to Strength, a –2 penalty to Dexterity, a +4 size bonus to Constitution, a +4 natural armor bonus, and low-light vision. If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: darkvision 60 feet, rend (2d6 damage), regeneration 5, rock catching, and rock throwing (range 60 feet, 2d6 damage). If the creature has immunity or resistance to any elements, you gain resistance 20 to those elements. If the creature has vulnerability to an element, you gain that vulnerability.
...
This spell functions as giant form I except that it also allows you to assume the form of any Huge creature of the giant type. You gain the following abilities: a +8 size bonus to Strength, a –2 penalty to Dexterity, a +6 size bonus to Constitution, a +6 natural armor bonus, low-light vision, and a +10 foot enhancement bonus to your speed. If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: swim 60 feet, darkvision 60 feet, rend (2d8 damage), regeneration 5, rock catching, and rock throwing (range 120 feet, 2d10 damage). If the creature has immunity or resistance to one element, you gain that immunity or resistance. If the creature has vulnerability to an element, you gain that vulnerability.
Melkiador- You are right. It is more complicated than reading a few paragraphs should be. :(
The greater mask only allows you the abilities from giant form 1. I checked and the only abilities missing are from giant form 2. Unless I missed something that is.
But you are limited to the 5 forms you mention which you are not if you cast the giant form 1 spell. This is what I missed in my last post.
And a goliath druid gets to wild shape as giant form 1-
"At 12th level, when taking the form of a giant, the goliath druid’s wild shape functions as giant form I."
And as Ryan Freire says you have to be able to afford the thing.
Anyway the key point on why goliath druid is one of the best archetypes is that giant form lets you keep your gear. a giant form 2'ed goliath druid can shillelagh up like an 8d6 quarterstaff, or at level 11 just be a troll with regen 5 and FULL ADVENTURER GEAR.
Giant form and monstrous physique are honestly grotesque if you can get them on an already melee focused character.
I didn't realise that.
I take it if you change shape to a human like shape all your gear gets enlarged with you. As it does with enlarge person.
And you must be correct given that is the way it works.
Could you give me a rules reference for that please Ryan? I foresee some questions from my GM/s about this.
I take it if you change shape to a human like shape all your gear gets enlarged with you.
When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin type, all of your gear melds into your body... If your new form does not cause your equipment to meld into your form, the equipment resizes to match your new size.
If you're changing into a humanoid, your equipment resizes.
Thank you Matthew.
May cause some odd interactions like, “What do your shoes change to when changing to a merman?”