I still love the idea of an army of stone statue prisoners. I'm definitely doing this in my game :)
Hilarity ensues when the animation magic ties to the spirit of the person bound in those forms (remember they are still present), and the whole army turns on the emperor they are supposed to be protecting.
Or a wave of Break Enchantment steals over the palace grounds, surrounding the imperial person with dozens of skilled people who have every reason to hate him, all at once.
Good idea, epic drawbacks when things go wrong. :)
==Aelryinth
Check Out Pyramid of Shadows by Wizards of the Coast (4th edition)
Simplest ideas that come to mind (don't know if they've been mentioned)
Magical collars that reduce Charisma to 9.
Dead Magic Zones for certain cells or detention areas.
Loved the Petrify idea, turning them to stone and basically having a 'villain's gallery', easily reversible if you ever discovered you needed one... can you place a pertrified person in a dead magic zone and have him remain petrified? If so then definitely petrification and removal to a gallery protected by an anti-magic zone where - for a price - citizens can view them and read of their heinous crimes, almost like a museum.
I like the idea of having some kind of anti-charisma collars.
Ravingdork beat me to suggesting create demiplane, but as for the portal problem, it's simply solved:
Create a dead magic demiplane.
Lock the sorcerer in a cage (adamantine-barred if it's really important that he stays put) inside this demiplane.
And if you don't ever intend to go back in there once he's locked up then you can take added measures such as walling the portal shut (with more adamantine if you wish), having a mountain or small hill built on top of the walled portal (this is assuming you have the financial resources to order the construction of a mountain).
Or you could just make the material-plane end of the portal come out inside the sun. Because unless your trapped sorcerer can come up with a way to acquire fire immunity before leaving the dead magic demiplane then he'll be vapourised instantly upon exiting it.
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Hilarity ensues when the animation magic ties to the spirit of the person bound in those forms (remember they are still present), and the whole army turns on the emperor they are supposed to be protecting.
Or a wave of Break Enchantment steals over the palace grounds, surrounding the imperial person with dozens of skilled people who have every reason to hate him, all at once.
Good idea, epic drawbacks when things go wrong. :)
==Aelryinth
“Stone Prisoner” is an acquired template that can be added to any creature that can be the target of a flesh to stone spell, such creatures are hereafter referred to as the base creature. A stone prisoner retains all the base creature's statistics and abilities except as noted here. A stone prisoner may be restored to the base creature in the same manner as a petrified creature can be returned to flesh (this also restores the stone prisoners gear, if any, if the effect would normally do so), however doing so is difficult, and any checks made to accomplish this transformation suffer a -4 penalty. A stone prisoner cannot be returned to its original form unless it chooses to be.
Challenge Rating: Same as the base creature +2.
Type: The base creature's type changes to construct. It gains the augmented subtype. Do not recalculate BAB, saves, or skill ranks.
Senses: As the base creature, plus darkvision 60 feet and low-light vision.
AC: A stone prisoner's natural armor bonus increases by +2.
Hit Dice: The base creature's racial Hit Dice change to d10s.
Defensive Abilities: A stone prisoner retains all of the base creature's defensive abilities and special qualities. It also gains the following.
Damage Reduction (Ex): A stone prisoner gains DR/bludgeoning based on its Hit Dice. A stone prisoner with up to 10 HD gains DR 5/bludgeoning. A stone prisoner with 11 or more HD gains DR 10/bludgeoning.
Immunities: Stone prisoners gain construct traits.
I'll Never Go Back (Su): This functions like magic immunity, but it only applies against magical effects that the freedom of movement spell could ignore and that allow for SR. Mundane means of restraining or slowing a stone prisoner (or magical means that don't allow for SR) work normally. However, a stone prisoner gains a +8 bonus on Strength checks made to burst bonds that are restraining them.
Thick as Thieves (Su): When two or more stone prisoners are within 30 feet of one another, they both gain the benefit of a protection from law spell. The caster level of this protection from law effect is equal to the highest Hit Dice of the affected stone prisoner. This effect can be dispelled, but if it is, a stone prisoner can reactivate it as a swift action.
Stony Defense (Su): A number of times per day equal to its Hit Dice, a stone prisoner can harden its skin to unyielding stone as an immediate action. It gains hardness 8 until the end of its next turn, but its speed is reduced by 10 feet for the same duration.
Attacks: A stone prisoner retains all the natural weapons and weapon proficiencies of the base creature. If a stone prisoner does not already have natural weapons from its race, it also gains a slam attack that deals damage based on the stone prisoner's size.
Special Abilities: A stone prisoner retains all of the base creature's special attacks and special abilities. If such abilities required living physiology to function, they become supernatural in nature. A stone prisoner also gains the following special qualities.
Freeze (Ex): A stone prisoner can hold itself so still it appears to be a statue. A stone prisoner that uses freeze can take 10 on its Stealth check to hide in plain sight as a stone statue. A stone prisoner can maintain this position for as long as it wishes.
Stone Garb (Ex): Some stone prisoners still carry their old equipment. This equipment is petrified and has become part of their physical form, however, and is nonfunctional.
Abilities: +2 Strength, -2 Dexterity. Stone prisoners, being constructs, have no Constitution score. For the purposes of hit points, treat it as though it had 10 Constitution (causing it to lose any bonus hit points it may have had, or perhaps gaining additional hit points if the base creature was particularly infirm). Additionally, stone prisoners gain bonus hit points for their size (see the Construct type).
One of the drawbacks that Cursed Items in CRB have is "Character cannot cast any spells.". Just make a pair of cursed chained +1 gauntlets that has this drawback and put them on the caster while he is sleeping, so he won't receive a saving throw, then put for security a pair of manacles or two cursed locked gauntlets that locks each other...
Hilarity ensues when the animation magic ties to the spirit of the person bound in those forms (remember they are still present), and the whole army turns on the emperor they are supposed to be protecting.
Or a wave of Break Enchantment steals over the palace grounds, surrounding the imperial person with dozens of skilled people who have every reason to hate him, all at once.
Good idea, epic drawbacks when things go wrong. :)
==Aelryinth
“Stone Prisoner” is an acquired template that can be added to any creature that can be the target of a flesh to stone spell, such creatures are hereafter referred to as the base creature. A stone prisoner retains all the base creature's statistics and abilities except as noted here. A stone prisoner may be restored to the base creature in the same manner as a petrified creature can be returned to flesh (this also restores the stone prisoners gear, if any, if the effect would normally do so), however doing so is difficult, and any checks made to accomplish this transformation suffer a -4 penalty. A stone prisoner cannot be returned to its original form unless it chooses to be.
Challenge Rating: Same as the base creature +2.
Type: The base creature's type changes to construct. It gains the augmented subtype. Do not recalculate BAB, saves, or skill ranks.
Senses: As the base creature, plus darkvision 60 feet and low-light vision.
AC: A stone prisoner's natural armor bonus increases by +2.
Hit Dice: The base creature's racial Hit Dice change to d10s.
Defensive Abilities: A stone prisoner retains all of the base creature's defensive abilities and special qualities. It also gains the following.
Damage Reduction (Ex): A stone prisoner gains DR/bludgeoning based on its Hit Dice. A stone prisoner with up to 10 HD gains DR 5/bludgeoning. A stone prisoner with 11 or more HD gains DR 10/bludgeoning.
Immunities:...
I actually like this a lot more than what I was going to do, which was just animated objects. I feel like I'd still want to use Construction Points on them though.
Ability drain his charisma until it hits nine and then treat him like a commoner.
2nd level spells meta'd into fifth level slots can still hurt!
==Aelryinth
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Why not just create an area with an antimagic field...?
But i think the better solution to the problem was solved in Jim Butcher's The Dresden Files. Simply create powerful magical manacles that cause excruciating pain to anyone attempting to use magic, forcing them to make concentration checks on even the simplest spells (the DC should be fairly high, maybe 20+ the spells level if not more). Then, simply have magical beings guard the area, of the sort that one cannot afford to have questionable magic to use...
cursed items that deplete Charisma is also an option
or One Piece's sea-stone, which causes the exhausted condition to any spellcasters wearing them, and again making them use concentration checks.
Hell, a cursed ring with a localized antimagic field could probably just be devised, and make it so that the ring can only be removed by the original caster. Better yet, make it a collar.
Or, also, again from Jim Butcher (but from Codex Alera), you have a cursed collar that is keyed via blood magic to the person who originally put it on the mage, and anyone else trying to remove it will kill the mage inso doing. The collar causes excruciating pain to the mage when their "master" is displeased, and wondrous bliss when they are pleased. This will effectively drive the mage mad, or turn them into such a behaviorist pretzel that they'd be perpetually dependent on the collar.
Drugs work too, speaking of. Magical drugs. Either magic suppressing drugs, or really, any kind of drug that lowers their Charisma and is cripplingly addictive (whose withdrawal effects are essentially fatal as well) meaning that in the very slim chance of escape would mean the prisoner's demise.
Finally, go with all of the above for vacuum freshness mage prisons...and add a couple hundred golem guards, just in case...
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If you had a reliable way to Stone Shape someone back to their original form, perhaps using a Restoration in combination with another Stone Shape, then yes, transforming them into a block or a wheel would be ideal. If they can retain their awareness for punishment purposes, that would be even better.
And, of course, you are all assuming that if the enchantment is broken, they just don't revert to their proper forms, anyways. Just because the stone they were made of gets warped doesn't mean the flesh doesn't go right back to the way its supposed to...Breack Enchantment might well turn them right back to the way they are supposed to be. It does just that for Polymorphed creatures, remember!
In my games, I'd just go with getting the shape right making it eligible for a working stone to flesh/break enchantment, not really applying a direct "that bit of stone is part of the appendix so it needs to go precisely there" and just having the magic fix it. That way it avoids the problem of turning fixed statues into people that look like they were carved out of a side of beef and fall fall apart as soon as they're depetrified.
If one did want to have a direct "this molecule of stone always = this molecule of person" relation in their games though, there's still another option. Stone tell + Heal checks alongside the stone shape castings! :D
On awareness, I'm of two minds on that. On the one hand, it is just putting them into magical cryogenic stasis, minus the cryogenics. There's something to be said for their removal from the world and the years gone by that they've missed(if not lost years of their lives) being punishment enough,
Then again, some will want the prisoners to know that they're in lock-up/been utterly and literally dehumanized the entire time as part of their punishment. This rockets right into terrifying I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream territory of course.
So naturally I prefer the latter option for fantasy settings(see the be a tree version of this prison!). Good-leaning folks handing out this punishment should probably come up with some way to allow the prisoner to dream or mentally rest though, otherwise it's just constant torture that'll probably drive the rock insane.
edit-Oh wow, another thought. Utilizing/weaponizing petrified sorcerers. Whatever shape they're crafted into could be plugged into arcane devices that can utilize their spell slots-per-day, accessing the spells they had before being transformed.
Nab the right sorcerers and you could have fearsome siege engines. Or amazing practical devices providing all manner of wonders and luxury for your citizens or upper echelons.
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Assume a very large city, with a learned gentry, and probably a magical college. The ruler would occasionally have need of imprisoning those for whom you can't take away their spell book; sorcerers and the like. How do?
In a general sense, a monarch could rule "Well, she's too dangerous, just hang her." but prisoners can be useful in the long run, and adjudicating certain spells for individuals could become expensive. Give me ideas for an institution that can safely house those of magical blood for an indefinite period of time.
It's actually really easy and doesn't require anything as crazy as extraplanar dimensions and the like.
First, have them bound. When you tie up somebody, it counts as being pinned. Even if you don't need your hands, the DC to cast a spell in such a case is 10 + CMB + spell level. Simply true strike and then throw away the key. That will set the DC somewhere around 30+ to try and cast a silent stilled spell if they're bound and gagged. EDIT: And that's IF the GM doesn't rule that the DC to cast is actually 20 + CMB + spell level for consistency with the Tie-Up rules in the Grapple section.
Secondly, and this is a bit of a douche move, but set up a resetting trap in the room that hits the bound mage with touch of fatigue every so often (could be every hour on the hour, or every 4 hours, or every 7 hours, or whatever). It's a harmless spell, but it should be enough to interrupt a spellcaster's rest, preventing them from regaining spells or prepare spells from memory. In the case of undead, such as liches, use something like stabilize to create a slightly unpleasant sensation for more or less the same effect.
You now have a mage who basically can do nothing, and all it costs you is some manacles, chains, and the cost of a cantrip resetting item, which any 3rd level adept can create.
Ultimately... the only sane answer.
"Just Shoot Him" "I'll go upstairs, get my gun and we can both shoot him. It'll be a father and son bonding experience."
Unless you're keeping a mage on ice, or have the luxury for a super prison, ultimately you're either hanging, stabbing, or burning the "witch".
Keeping one a long term prisoner makes no sense at all.
IF you're going to make use of one, you sign him up right then and there. Consigning one to long terms of prison (and torture has some have suggested) is merely breeding an arcane enemy over the long term.
If it's a really dangerous mage, you kill him and perform Soul Bind on the corpse so that no one can resurrect him.
Pretty sure this is for those cases where he's either just a suspect but needs to be held because magic users on the loose can flee at the first sign of being found out, or you need to interrogate him to stop a larger threat.
Obviously it's not hard to disable the sorcerer - feeblemind, petrification, baleful polymorph, a mirror of life trapping, and any number of other spells and items can achieve this.
What's trickier is imprisoning the sorcerer in such a way that you can visit his cell to interrogate him for information over time, do the Magneto/Professor X thing of visiting his cell to play chess and match wits, or just go there to gloat - that it, he must be kept healthy and alert, yet unable to really function, ie. attack *you*.
One idea might be, as has been suggested, to create a demiplane. We then prepare a permanent calling circle in the demiplane - if we're feeling generous, we can widen it or something so it can accomodate a bed, sofa, desk and so on (we have 20ft. radius, so around 1260 sq.ft, which is a nice apartment space). We bind dimensional anchor into it per normal, and have a nice, basically impenetrable trap.
On the prime material, we have our sorcerer unconscious and ready to imprison, so we debuff his will save (some wisdom damage will do nicely - we can just call or summon a soul eater to take care of this, plus maybe a bestow curse, ill omen, or whatever); then, from our demiplane prison, we cast Planar Binding (or Greater Planar Binding if he's powerful enough), drawing him into the trap in our demiplane.
When he comes to, he'll find himself comfortable ensconced in a 40 foot diameter circle from which he cannot escape, and from which he cannot affect the world outside the circle! Perhaps the demiplane is a 100 ft diameter room with a domed ceiling, and the circle[/] lies in its center, so we can walk around it, chatting with our captive while he fumes helplessly!
The portal to the prison can be arranged thus: we have a druid ally earth glide a couple thousand feet below the surface of the earth (or deep in the heart of a mountain, or whatever) and [i]stone shape a portal chamber. He also leaves an item there upon which you've placed an [i[arcane mark[/i], so you can scry it, greater teleport there, and set up the demiplane. Our portal is now out of the range of any reasonable locate object spell (unless the caster is earth gliding nearby!) Of course, we can use many counters to divination to our portal chamber - lead shielding, mage's private sanctum, and so on. Only we (well, and our druid friend) know where the portal is, and we greater teleport there to access it.
Some thoughts.
The real question is why. Why is this Sorcerer imprisoned?
- If he's a hostage, then all that is needed is that he can be presented, undamaged, at a given moment.
- If he's somehow influential, he'll need to be treated with dignity.
- If he's merely detained to prevent him from leaving the county for whatever reason, then it's up to the local customs.
- If it's meant as a punishment, then any kind of "stasis" wouldn't suffice.
Et cetera, et cetera.
(also: thread necro!)
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Oh hey, this thread is back!
In the realm of cruel: Flesh to Stone -> Stone Shape.
Hey look! You have no mouth and your limbs are in your torso! Also, you're part of the wall!
unless they had the feats you could strip them of there items and gear just bind and gag them. keep them from getting restful sleep and they shouldent be able to do much also when they need to eat have some npc's that are good at taking a caster down without killing them. if they have the feats then ud need to think of something else.
but if they dont have the feats just have someone that can counterspell them and someone that can club them into sleepy time standing guard. i think if you take a wizards book away and hold them a day they cant do anything after that.
sorcerer put in conditions where they cant cast or rest for 24 hours then just keep them from sleeping well.
In the realm of cruel: Flesh to Stone -> Stone Shape.
Hey look! You have no mouth and your limbs are in your torso! Also, you're part of the wall!
Pointless, rather than cruel. Anyone turned to stone becomes mindless, and thus unable to "appreciate" whatever you do next. Plus: Stone Shape cannot be undone, so you simply killed the petrified sorcerer.
if they have the feats then ud need to think of something else
Our prisoner could level up while incarcerated, and acquire a feat required to cast spells while bound or gagged.
by getting exp off of rats? I don't think so.
He shanked his cell mate.
Or got RP XP.
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Assume a very large city, with a learned gentry, and probably a magical college. The ruler would occasionally have need of imprisoning those for whom you can't take away their spell book; sorcerers and the like. How do?
In a general sense, a monarch could rule "Well, she's too dangerous, just hang her." but prisoners can be useful in the long run, and adjudicating certain spells for individuals could become expensive. Give me ideas for an institution that can safely house those of magical blood for an indefinite period of time.
Try any of the following
- Jail cell with an anti-magic field
- Feeblemind
- Flesh to Stone
- Trap the Soul
- Polymorph Any Object
- Temporal Stasis
- Imprisonment
The simplest is just to feeblemind the caster and toss him in a normal prison.
Flesh to Stone and store the statue in a secure location is also fairly safe.
In the realm of cruel: Flesh to Stone -> Stone Shape.
Hey look! You have no mouth and your limbs are in your torso! Also, you're part of the wall!
Pointless, rather than cruel. Anyone turned to stone becomes mindless, and thus unable to "appreciate" whatever you do next. Plus: Stone Shape cannot be undone, so you simply killed the petrified sorcerer.
if they have the feats then ud need to think of something elseOur prisoner could level up while incarcerated, and acquire a feat required to cast spells while bound or gagged.
Far from pointless. I haven't killed the Sorceror, so they can't be raised elsewhere, and nobody can effectively Stone to Flesh them back to life in a rescue mission without at least pulling off a well-worded Wish or similar in the process.
I would say an excessively good option would be to research a spell for travelling someone through time. It is enough that it only works forward in time, which should be doable. Simply send him to the desired point in time you want him again. Make sure to wait for him then. No way to escape, nobody can spring him out, because he won't exist for a year, century or millennium.
why not just tear his soul from the body? evil yes, but effective.
why not just tear his soul from the body? evil yes, but effective.
Yes, well... that's "why not just stab 'em?"-territory. ;)
why not just tear his soul from the body? evil yes, but effective.That was the Trap the Soul option.
he will make a fine necklace.....
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he will make a fine necklace.....why not just tear his soul from the body? evil yes, but effective.That was the Trap the Soul option.
500 years later the king commissions a new crown using some of the royal jewels. That a particular diamond imprisons a lich of tremendous power has long since been forgotten.
500 years later the king commissions a new crown using some of the royal jewels. That a particular diamond imprisons a lich of tremendous power has long since been forgotten.he will make a fine necklace.....why not just tear his soul from the body? evil yes, but effective.That was the Trap the Soul option.
King gets drunk. Falls down and breaks his crown. Awkwardness ensues.
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Check this out:
Extradimensional Prison
Requirements: One 17th level Wizard, money.
Step 1: Find and hire 17th level wizard.
Step 2: Wizard casts Greater Create Demiplane, creating an extradimenional space consisting of 340 10ft x 10ft cubes. Cost = 1530 gold per spellcasting services formula, plus 500 gold for focus necessary to cast the spell.
Step 3: Wizard casts Create Demiplane, selecting the Structure feature to change the demiplane into a building that will function as a prison. With 340 10ft x 10ft cubes to work with, you can allocate 100 of them for 100 cells, leaving 240 left for other uses. You could probably consider using this building for multiple purposes. Cost = 1360 gold per spellcasting services formula.
Step 4: Wizard casts Greater Create Demiplane, selecting the Portal feature to create a permanent gate between the prison and the material plane. Cost = 1530 gold per spellcasting services formula.
Step 5: Wizard casts Greater Create Demiplane, selecting the Magic feature to make the entire prison a dead magic zone. Per the Gamemastery guide, a dead magic zone counts as an Antimagic Field for the purposes of spellcasting. Cost = 1530 gold per spellcasting services formula.
Step 6: Wizard casts Permanency on the prison. Cost = 850 gold for the Permanency spell, and 22,500 gold to make the prison permanent, per the spell.
Total cost: 29,800 gold plus 3-4 days of casting. You now have a permanent prison that's big enough to function as the city's regular prison/jail, negating the need to build a separate one. The entire prison is effectively within an Antimagic Field so you can imprison any amount of criminal spellcasters within it. You don't have to resort to cruel or inhumane methods in order to prevent prisoners from casting spells.
Here's the funny thing - Since you don't have to build a regular jail, what's the real economic cost of building the prison I laid out above, assuming that a city would want to build a jail in any case? Well, the only rules I'm aware of for building prices exists in Kingmaker, and using those rules a regular jail costs 14 build points, which is the equivilent of 56,000 gold. So the extra dimensional prison actually costs only 53.2% of the cost of a mundane jail.
Check this out:
Extradimensional Prison
Requirements: One 17th level Wizard, money.
Step 1: Find and hire 17th level wizard.
Step 2: Wizard casts Greater Create Demiplane, creating an extradimenional space consisting of 340 10ft x 10ft cubes. Cost = 1530 gold per spellcasting services formula.
Step 3: Wizard casts Create Demiplane, selecting the Structure feature to change the demiplane into a building that will function as a prison. With 340 10ft x 10ft cubes to work with, you can allocate 100 of them for 100 cells, leaving 240 left for other purposes. You could probably consider using this building for multiple purposes. Cost = 1360 gold per spellcasting services formula.
Step 4: Wizard casts Greater Create Demiplane, selecting the Portal feature to create a permanent gate between the prison and the material plane. Cost = 1530 gold per spellcasting services formula.
Step 5: Wizard casts Greater Create Demiplane, selecting the Magic feature to make the entire prison a dead magic zone. Per the Gamemastery guide, a dead magic zone counts as an Antimagic Field for the purposes of spellcasting. Cost = 1530 gold per spellcasting services formula.
Step 6: Wizard casts Permanency on the prison. Cost = 850 gold for the Permanency spell, and 22,500 gold to make the prison permanent, per the spell.
Total cost: 29,300 gold plus 3-4 days of casting. You now have a permanent prison that's big enough to function as the city's regular prison/jail, negating the need to build a separate one. The entire prison is effectively within an Antimagic Field so you can imprison any amount of criminal spellcasters within it. You don't have to resort to cruel or inhumane methods in order to prevent prisoners from casting spells.
Here's the funny thing - Since you don't have to build a regular jail, what the real economic cost of building the prison I laid out above, assuming that a city would want to build a jail in any case? Well, the...
Build the portal so you have to climb up to get out. Make it far enough and you control from the exterior who comes in and out. Exit could be as simple as a rope or as complicated as a golem driven elevator mechanism.
Jailbreadk? Just cut the exit rope/elevator cable.
Edit: Add bountiful and it also works as a food source.
Edit2: Make the plane filled with water, minus the area for the prison, and further increase the security measures.
What if the cells in the magical security wing were all lined with a mystical/otherworldly metal/mineral/stone/material that eats/supresses magic? Or maybe all magic used in the certain parts of the prison is instantly dispelled by magical wards.
Have golems guard the halls.
The Maximum Security wing is actually in Hell, guarded by Devils under contract. If someone breaks out, the portal to the place closes down and a dimensional anchor hits the whole wing. First devil to take down the escapee´s get the soul.
Main problem I see with this.. The devil's are probably going to try to help the "initial escape" just so they can harvest souls.
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I'm pretty sure this is what the Hallucinatory Terrain spell is for.
1. Get an open field.
2. Hallucinatory Terrain it into something suitably unrecognizable. Imaginative illusioneers preferred.
3. Fence it off, so nobody wanders in accidentally.
4. Have the Terrain caster tell the guards it's illusionary to grant them a +4 bonus on their save. Once the guards make their save, glamer them so the prisoners don't realize that they're guards.
5. Send the glamered guards in with mancatchers so that they can "shepherd" prisoners away from the edges of the Terrain.
Done well, prisoners may never even realize they're being imprisoned.
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I would go with the Flesh to Stone route. Can keep them stored in any prison basement. You can fit many of them in the same room once turned to stone. Can keep with many other statues of the same person, so any rescue attempts require them to take all the likenesses.
Would just need a stonemason and a wizard/sorcerer on hand to create the initial statue, then the copies.
All those other ideas are more complicated than they need. This, you just turn the guy to stone, make 14 copies, then put all 15 statues in a single room. Don't need to go through the whole process of time and money to make a whole demi-plane just for them