Mercurial's page

I would point towards some of the older ones - Second Darkness and Legacy of Fire for example. In Second Darkness you get to actually have a fight while IN a tower that's rolling down a mountainside, and Legacy of Fire has genies and other fantastical aspects that you don't find in any of the other AP's.

This is an under-rated campaign!

Our party:

Female Human Bard (Dawnflower Dervish)

Halfling Summoner (Spirit Summoner - Battle Spirit) w/ a giant scorpion-esque eidolon that he uses as a non-combat mount.

Can we do this without a full caster? We shall see...

Magus/Sorc is great for the first 3 chapters. After that, you definitely want a full 9th level spellbook caster (Wizard or Arcanist), as the loot and encounters are geared heavily towards expecting the party to have one.

Ugh... nobody in our party likes prepared casters. I'll keep in mind the suggestion about Arcanaist if someone ends up getting the axe (literally or figuratively).

Also Ability Damage is a consistent threat in PF, and starts rearing its head prominently in chapter 2 of RotR. If the Oracle is going to spend all their level up spells focusing on healing and getting rid of or preventing negative conditions, then you should be fine, but the double cost of scrolls makes things way more strict if you want to survive.

Well the Oracle is definitely going to take the Restoration spells I'm pretty sure. Beyond that, I don't know...

Not trying to be judgmental, but it seems that you guys are geared up for primarily combat. Only gap I see (mostly because I can't see sheets) would seem to be any mechanical non combat. But as far as combat goes, I'd say your only worry should be too much from the GM.

Appreciate the response. Yes, I didn't get into skills and things as I thought the post was getting pretty long already. Here's a quick short-hand of the character's skill spread:

Barbarian:
6 skill ranks/level, most heavily invested in Acrobatics, Intimidate, Knowledge: Local, Knowledge: Nature, Perception, Stealth & Survival.

Magus:
5-7 skill ranks/level, most heavily invested in Intimidate, Knowledge: Arcana, Knowledge: Planes, Perception, Spellcraft, Stealth & UMD.

Oracle:
5 skill rnkas/level, most heavily invested in Diplomacy, Knowledges: Arcana, History, Planes & Religion, Perception, Spellcraft & UMD.

Sorcerer
4 skill ranks/level, most heavily invested in Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, Knowledge: Nature, Perception, Spellcraft & Stealth.

I don't think anyone has any major skill bonuses like Skill Focus or class-based bonuses.

We have a Bard who's planning on using these two spells in conjunction pretty regularly in our Skull n' Shackles campaign. Its a shame that the ranges don't synergize very well, but putting that aside, is this a viable tactic?

If Blistering Invective causes someone to catch on fire, can that person then be used as the source for Pyrotechnics? I don't know if it counts as 'magical fire' when someone catches fire, but the spell seems to infer that using magical fire as a source is fine, it simply isn't extinguished by the spell.

If allies know that the spell is going to be cast ahead of time, can they close their eyes and avoid the effects of the fireworks aspect of the spell? The thought was the Bard would cast Blistering Invective and then everyone else would take their action, before closing their eyes as a free action at the end of their turn. Blindness penalties would be assigned to them in between the end of their turn and the end of the Bard's next turn when Pyrotechnics was cast, after which they would presumably open their eyes, again as a free action.

Sound reasonable? It seems to make for a pretty effective 1-2 punch at 4th level...

We have an expanded version of RotRL kicking off, one that (hopefully) will see us reach 20th level by its end. We've got our party together and a general idea of how its going to evolve, assuming everyone survives. I'm listing it below along with a couple of pertinent house rules in the hopes of getting an idea as to whether or not we've got any gaps we should consider or if it might be too powerful a grouping. The latter seems unlikely since our GM isn't going to be shy about piling on the difficulty as needed, but still. Any and all thoughts are welcome.

As an aside, our GM tends to play a lower magic campaign with only consumables commonly available for sale and those at twice the normal cost. Naturally, customizable magic items are at a premium for us.

Human Unchained Barbarian
Will spend most of his career as an Unchained Barbarian, dipping into a level of Unbreakable Fighter for Stalwart/Improved Stalwart purposes. Considering a late dip into Rogue as well, Thug archetype maybe, for Evasion and some Sneak Attack tricks. He's planning on carrying two-handed weapons, one with reach and one with not, and following a typical Beast Totem rage power build. Primary role: Tank.

Elven Magus (Hexcrafter)
Magus all the way. Early Flight Hex, then Evil Eye, Ice Tomb and Hag's Eye in the mid-levels. Taking the Frostbite/Rime Spell/Enforcer track and then Shocking Grasp as a preferred spell. Either Cone of Cold or Chain Lightning as the subject of Spell Perfection late. His rapier will be a Bonded Item (see House Rules below). Primary roles: Striker, Debuffer.

Half-Elven Oracle of Desna
Heavens Mystery & Powerless Prophecy Curse. Going the Color Spray route, obviously, with Desna's Shooting Star fighting style early on. Metamagic feats and Divine Interference round out his build. Eldritch Heritage will allow him to make his holy symbol a Bonded Item. His Mystery spell list has been slightly altered to better suit his deity (see below), and his favored class bonus will grant a ton of additional spells known. Primary roles: Battlefield Control, Healer.

Spell list changes:
4th - Rope Trick (replaces Hypnotic Pattern)
12th - Dream Travel (replaces Chain Lightning)
16th - Scintillating Pattern (replaces Sunburst)
18th - Miracle (replaces Meteor Swarm)

Kitsune Crossblooded Sorcerer
Serpentine & Fey Bloodlines obviously focused on powerful single-target control, resorting to buffing teammates and providing utility effects when those options aren't effective. Will benefit from a slightly expanded selection of spells (see below), and will eventually take a Faerie Dragon familiar. Primary roles: Single-target control, Utility.

Relevant House Rules:

The feats Power Attack, Combat Expertise, Deadly Aim and Eschew Materials are available for free to anyone who qualifies for them.

A Magus can take Bonded Object as an Arcana instead of a Familiar, but the item must be a weapon.

Sorcerers gain Heighten Spell in place of Eschew Materials (which they now get for free).

Crossblooded Sorcerers may select a bloodline spell as a known spell at each level 2nd - 19th.

I'm putting together a 10th level Halfling Mouser for a game this weekend; among other things he will be taking Stylish Riposte and have a Fortuitous Rapier. Is there any reason why I would not want to use a Buckler with this character?

To that point, does a buckler essentially function as a light shield (with the stated exceptions) when it comes to AC benefits and enhancements?

Basically, would a +2 Buckler provide the same AC benefits as a +2 light shield while not affecting any of my feats or swashbuckler abilities? I have no intentions of using anything in my off-hand.

Mercurial wrote:

Saldiven wrote:

There's a Feat for that....

Agile Maneuvers

So I'm correct that that is in fact how it works? It seems odd that having a high level of Sleight of Hand would be useless when trying to steal something...

I think the idea is that trying to steal something while in combat is more akin to a mugging (taking by force) that pick-pocketing (taking by finesse).

That makes sense. Doesn't exactly fit the Mouser's 'Quick Steal' ability, but I understand the overall intent if that's where they were coming from. Wish they had let that particular archetype attempt a Sleight of Hand check vs. the target's CMD instead.

Appreciate the feedback, everyone.

There's a Feat for that....

Agile Maneuvers

So I'm correct that that is in fact how it works? It seems odd that having a high level of Sleight of Hand would be useless when trying to steal something...

So if I want to pick someone's pocket or steal an item from them under normal conditions, I use my Sleight of Hand skill and my Dexterity bonus... but if I want to steal from them in the middle of combat (say, by using the Mouser's 'Quick Steal' ability) its based purely off of my BAB and my Strength bonus? If that's right, then that seems... off... doesn't it?

Sounds like you have a coordinated plan to use group synergi effekts.

Oh, definitely - the builds are actually already set (presuming the characters max out at 17th in the AP):

Skelsgard, Half-Orc 17th level Red Tongue & Fated Champion

Molgrim and Molgrin "Grim" & "Grin", Half-Orc 2nd level Pack Rager & Wild Rager / 1st level Brawler / 14th level Guide & Skirmisher

Half-Orc 1st level Bloodrager (Arcane) / 16th level Scarred Witch Doctor (original version, Healing Patron)

The backstory borrows heavily from the movie 'Four Brothers' and the characters will already have strong ties built in, both to one another and to the town of Trunau (if you're familiar with the AP, I'd be happy to expound). The characters will all be taking Amplified Rage at 1st level and the twin brothers (identical builds) will be taking a number of additional teamwork feats as well.

Actually I'm planning on using this as part of an all half-orc party rebuild for the Giantslayer AP. Figured that Spirit Totem would help with the inevitable reach attacks and then realized that the other powers in the chain offered a pretty fair amount of effectiveness as well. Adding 1d8 AoE x4 and +1d6 Sonic damage/attack as well as the benefits of Skald's Vigor, additional Rage Powers and a Rogue Talent all on top of Raging Song really makes this character the party 'engine'... and that's before I've cast a single spell or taken a single swing.

Thanks again for the responses.

Greater Spirit Totem: While raging, the spirits that surround the barbarian become dangerous to any enemy adjacent to the barbarian. Living enemies adjacent to the barbarian at the start of her turn take 1d8 points of negative energy damage. In addition, the spirit wisps can now attack foes that are up to 15 feet away from the barbarian and the slam attack deals 1d6 points of negative energy damage.

A couple of quick clarifications:

So if I'm granting this ability to everyone in my party via Raging Song, every enemy adjacent to a party member takes 1d8 negative energy damage on each player's turn. In other words, if four of us had a foe surrounded, that foe would be taking 4d8 negative energy damage/rd plus be potentially subjected to four additional spirit attacks per round? Admittedly those spirit attacks would be pretty weak at that level but its still something.

And similarly, if one member of my party was surrounded by four foes, each of those foes would take 1d8 negative energy damage per round?

Finally, if I am granting the ability, do each of the attacking wisps use my BAB with my CHA bonus regardless or do they each use the BAB & CHA of the particular character they are surrounding?

Thanks in advance!

As a sorcerer you can get a long spear to threaten from a distance. so you can stand behind your pet and threaten. The sad part of this combo is that you will not get to take advantage of improved trip.

I am a bigger fan of spiritual weapon and toppling. As a cleric you do not get this spell until 3rd, but improved trip you can get at 9th. So if your weapon knocks a guy down it threatens. You can still get the pet through the animal domain. Plus you have better armor if you wanna get closer and threaten as well.

I think you're thinking of Greater Trip - but feat-starved as Clerics (and Sorcerers) are, that's a lot to invest for what is, at best a secondary tactic. The wolf can't take Combat Expertise (Intelligence 13 pre-req) and even a Cleric doesn't get it until 9th level, by which time more than 2/3 of your PFS career has passed...

Remember guys, the only time I'm using Trip is with Magic Missile - neither of us will be taking Improved Trip as part of our build, only Tandem Trip so that at various times we both get a double roll... it'll really let me be effective tripping from across the battlefield so long as my wolf is in the mix, and when he's protecting me from melee foes he'll be much more likely to get his foe down.

Again, the tripping thing isn't the end-all be-all of this build, its just a fun option that allows me to be VERY effective at lower levels and will likely see at least some use for the entirety of the build. As a caster I plan on being able to fill a broad range of roles, with offensive spells (I like Aggressive Thundercloud and Greater Aggressive Thundercloud in particular), control-type spells (Color Spray at level 1 and Entangle by level 3 is pretty sweet), utility stuff and enough buffs like Haste and Communal Prot. Evil to keep me popular and busy during the first few rounds of combat.

I'm carrying a longspear and a cestus at the moment, but my strength and attack bonus are so low that any damage by that route is pure lagniappe for me.

I'm sure we'll find some tricks for flyers in there at some point ;)

If anybody is interested, I'd be happy to post the build... its not OP'd, barely what I'd call optimized if at all but what it is is versatile, solid and a blast to play from early levels to the very end.

Little update - I played this in a PFS scenario this weekend (out of tier even) and had a great time... maybe the most fun I've had playing a PFS scenario. One of the pre-requisites I have for PFS characters is that they be fun at every level since I'm going to spend an equal amount of time at each... no long grinds to get to X level so that the character is finally fun or viable. To that end I can't recommend this build enough. the trip mechanic makes you feel really effective as a low level character and the animal companion adds a nice dimension to playstyle. As I level up and Trip becomes less viable, more and more fun options will come online.

Anybody see anything off about this?

I've always seen it as a trip vs. each foe. You'll have others see it other ways depending on if they think the "sneak attack/extra damage" rule applies.

It'll be super fun early on. When you start going agains flying foes or foes that simply can't be tripped you'll find it's way less fun.

Another option is that you can use alternate racial option to up one of your pets ability scores by two and give up your bonus feat. This'll let you get your pet up to int 4 immediately. But it doesn't help your feat progression because you still won't be able to pick up Tandem Trip until 5th (assuming you want Boon Companion at three which you most likely do).

Yes, I'll be taking Boon Companion at 3rd, the INT boost at 4th and Tandem Trip for both by 5th.

I'll get the Toppling Magic Missile at 1st level and of course its effectiveness will diminish as I level up, but I'm not trying to be a one-trick pony here, just trying to get the most I can out of a simple tactic - I'm sure by the time its become less useful I'll have plenty of other useful things to draw on. Its important to me that PFS builds be fun from 1st to 11th as I should spend equal time at each level. It occurs to me that by the time we're facing big bads, the ones that CAN be tripped I'll get 4 or 5 trip attempts per round against them.

And no way am I giving up those bonus spells that Humans get as their FCB ;)

I appreciate the response - as a follow-up (anyone, please) - if using Toppling Spell with Magic Missile at, say, 9th level, does that mean that I can theoretically make five trip attempts against 5 different foes, or even five trip attempts against the same foe? Or is it one of those awkward things where you only get a Trip attempt with the first magic missile?

Happy Holidays, all!

I'm putting together a PFS character who is a Human Wildblooded Sorcerer (Sylvan) and she'll have a wolf animal companion from the start. As part of the early build I was planning on taking Magical Lineage (Magic Missile) and the Toppling Spell feat to use with Magic Missile. My wolf gets an automatic Trip attempt every time he hits with his Bite so I figured that the Tandem Trip feat would be an ideal pairing; I could get the feat at 5th (Boon Companion at 3rd) and he'd get it at 4th if I use the Attribute bump to increase his Intelligence to 3. Does this work the way I think it does?

If he's out in combat away from me and I use the spell against a foe he threatens I get to roll twice to trip, but if the wolf hits with an attack he only rolls once. If I also threaten the target and the wolf hits with an attack then he gets to roll twice to Trip as well. Is that right? Is it worth a feat?

It seems like this would come up often enough to be useful; does anyone's experience say differently? Also, am I considered to be threatening if I don't have a weapon in hand and don't have Improved Unarmed Strike? Finally, if someone provokes an AoO from the wolf and he hits, does the Trip ability trigger then as well?

Thanks in advance!

According to the PRD:

Offensive Defense** (Ex): When a rogue with this talent hits a creature with a melee attack that deals sneak attack damage, the rogue gains a +1 dodge bonus to AC for each sneak attack die rolled for 1 round.

Note that rogue talents marked with a double asterisk (**) in this list add effects to a rogue's sneak attack. Only one of these talents can be applied to an individual attack, and the decision must be made before the attack roll is made.

Now, Dodge bonuses stack with themselves, so let's say I had a Two-Weapon Fighting Rogue with a Sneak Attack of +5d6 who managed to hit a flanked foe twice in the same round (10d6 sneak attack total), does that mean that the Rogue gained a +10 Dodge bonus to his AC or a +5 Dodge bonus?

Also, as it reads, the Dodge bonus applies to all attacks that target the Rogue's AC, not only the those from the creature who took the sneak attack damage, correct?

Alright, so I'm planning on running a Seasinger Bard/Inspired Blade Swashbuckler. I'm having trouble deciding how many levels of each and when to take them. I know I want at least 5 levels of both, and to complicate matters I'd love to work in a level of Urban Barbarian as well. Race will definitely be Human.

Our GM told us to plan to reach 17th level and told us that we would have an NPC Cleric most of the way. The rest of the group will be:

Half-Elven Master Summoner with a specialized summoning list (aquatic, avian and elementals only)

Human invulnerable Rager Barbarian

Human Rogue

Any advice would be most welcome. :)

Alright, so I made several sample builds, swapping the Barbarian dip for various iterations of of Monk, 1 level or 2 levels, standard and MoMS... going Monk I get a mild bump in saves and accelerate my AC progression a fair bit, but I take a -4 attack penalty and a -3 damage penalty (-1 BAB, no Focused Rage, +1 enhancement instead of a Furious Weapon). I think that's more than I want to lose... I'm still looking at it though.

Again, I appreciate all of the advice.

I am generally ok with power attack on swashbucklers, but for halflings it can be a pain in the posterior getting enough strength.

However, what about risky striker? Halfling swashbucklers should have quite high AC from their high dexterity and class features alone, and that is before you consider the crane style feat chain. Trading some of that for damage when you need to is imo definitely a good option. Yes, the extra damage only applies against creatures that are 2+ size categories larger than you... but that is quite a few creatures.

I find that to be an ideal option for Martial Flexibility, just one of many reasons that I have the Brawler dip as part of this build.

You're probably going to be all right with your saves. I leveled my Inspired Blade Swashbuckler to level 10 in PFS and with Charmed Life, rarely had any issues. I didn't bother using it with Reflex, I only used it on really important Fort saves, and always used it on Will saves. This method I never ran out of uses and rarely had issues.

Ugh - unfortunately Charmed Life won't work with Irrepressible.

Mercurial wrote:

Again, considering that this is a PFS character, the otherwise-oh-so-automatic MoMS dip simply isn't a viable option.

whats the change? you still get +2X3 saves and the ability to add 2 style feats no ?

As I understand it, MoMS isn't PFS-legal, if that's what you're asking...

just take str 10-12 after racial for not falling after the first str damaging rogue - and piranha strike

While I love everything about this character concept, its not hard to see that his weaknesses will be STR damage and Will saves.

Swordmaster's flair is priced individually

Thank you! I couldn't find anywhere that was stated definitively... makes sense though.

I'm playing a swashbuckler in a hell's rebels game and I'm having a BLAST!!

I would suggest more of a stat investment in str due to equipment weight and power attack. at level four you are gaining the same benefit of power attack as focused rage. I would also suggest going vanilla swashbuckler or the mouser swashbuckler for the halfling and getting fencing grace at a later level (level 5ish). damage escalates very quickly and you can easily shine as a short man wielding your toothpick rapier.

Int can easily be a dump stat if you don't go inspired blade. Use your favored class bonus to get an extra skill per level and let the wizard, alchemist, or bards do the knowledge checks.

Don't forget your plume of panache and swordmaster's flair(blue scarf)

I may get the same damage benefit from Power Attack as Focused Rage, but not the attack bonus which is the far more important of the two IMO, and then there's Reflex saves, skill checks like Acrobatics and Escape Artist, etc. I kind of like having a fair number of skills and more frequent uses of Charmed Life at the same time and I just don't know if I can wait that long for Fencing Grace... but maybe... I'm not ruling too much out just yet.

Could someone please answer my question about Swordmaster's Flair???

you need to be wary about saves (fort and will). i think that dip 2 monk master of many styles is amazing.

+2 to alll saves, imp unarmed strike (crane , snake for damage) and more.

also, other than the parry , there isnt a single (+) for a swashbuckler VS a cavalier (daring champion).

Fort saves are actually pretty good because of my dips - and of course there's Charmed Life. In a pinch, I can even raise my CON via Focused Rage if I need to beat a disease or poison save.

Again, considering that this is a PFS character, the otherwise-oh-so-automatic MoMS dip simply isn't a viable option.

My confusion is that one feat references a mechanic in the other feat that doesn't exist anywhere in its wording. I honestly have no idea where its coming from. No where in Crane Wing does it suggest that anything can cause you to lose your dodge bonus, but Crane Riposte acts as if it does. What is the mechanic, exactly?

It's right in the Crane Wing description -

SRD wrote:

Benefit: When fighting defensively with at least one hand free, you gain a +4 dodge bonus to AC against melee attacks. If a melee attack misses you by 4 or less, you lose this dodge bonus until the beginning of your next turn.

If you using the total defense action instead, you can deflect one melee attack that would normally hit you. An attack so deflected deals no damage and has no other effect (instead treat it as a miss). You do not expend an action when using this feat, but you must be aware of the attack and not flat-footed.

Alright, someone needs to help me out a bit here. I've moved on from the fact that the Archives of Nethys and the OGC seem to have different wording in their versions of the feat, but I'm looking at the PRD right HERE, and I don't see that wording.

BretI wrote:

Spelling it out a little bit.

You are using Crane Wing. Someone attacks you and misses you by 1. From that point until your next turn, you lose the +4 Dodge Bonus to AC that Crane Wing normally gives.

Thanks for clarifying that - if correct, they sure like to needlessly complicate things, don't they?

Mercurial: I don't understand what you do not understand about the "miss by 4 or more" bit. It works as advertised.

I'm not a fan of the Barbarian levels or the Brawler levels. IMO you would get more out of one or two levels of Master of Many Styles Monk. The small benefit that +4 Dex would bring for the limited amount of rounds you can do it for seems a lot less than what 2 style feats, +3 to all saves, Evasion, free Unarmed Strike and the option to go armorless. With your Dex as high as it is going to be and limits on Max Dex for armor, the availability of Wands of Mage Armor (or Bracers of Defense if you are so inclined) and armorless being very Swashbucklery it does make it a desirable option.

Also I would suggest dropping Weapon Specialization. I would take Mobility in its place and go for 4 levels into Duelist. Adding your Int to your AC and to your damage will make up the difference that Weapon Specialization leaves and gets you Combat Reflexes for free. If you already have it then you can retrain your previous feat for something else. IMO 5 levels of Swashbuckler makes for a good jumping off point anyway.

My confusion is that one feat references a mechanic in the other feat that doesn't exist anywhere in its wording. I honestly have no idea where its coming from. No where in Crane Wing does it suggest that anything can cause you to lose your dodge bonus, but Crane Riposte acts as if it does. What is the mechanic, exactly?

I appreciate the other suggestions - since the character is intended as much for PFS as anything, MoMS is right out. I will look at Duelist as an option, but remember I'm losing a lot for those levels, including precision damage, weapon training advances and so on. I'll already have Combat Reflexes from very early on as it is. Having said that, I'm not specifically married to Weapon Specialization, but the +4 damage all at once is nice.

Honestly, getting to use any existing combat feat you qualify 4/day is just ridiculous for a 1 level dip - I've been experimenting with it and the advantage is significant from 6th level all throughout the life of the character. These are just some of the options that become available, and the added versatility is more than worth it imo.

Blind-Fighting, Crane Style/Crane Wing/Crane Riposte, Cautious Fighter, Combat Stamina, Dazzling Display, Deflect Arrows, Footslasher, Lunge/Monkey Lunge, Risky Striker, Seize Advantage, Strike Back, Weapon Specialization/Greater Weapon Specialization, Wingclipper

Did you see the updated build or are your comments based on the initial one?

Mercurial wrote:

Thinking about that though, so often if you land a crit your foe is already dead or nearly so,

That's actually less true for Swashbucklers than most classes. This is because a lot of their damage comes from Precise Strike, and it isn't multiplied on a crit.

Yeah, I'm staying conscious of that, but I'm still adding DEX, enhancement bonuses, training bonuses and specialization bonuses so its still pretty high output, both critting and not. I'm not saying the damage is at auto-kill levels or anything, but like as not the foe won't be alive long enough for me to enjoy the full benefits of so many feats invested in critical hits. I think increasing AC and gaining additional AoO's is probably a more efficient use of those slots.

I would definitely appreciate any clarifications to my questions above regarding Weapon Tricks, Swordmaster's Flair and the Crane Style feat line (and thanks again for everything so far), but in the meantime this is how I'm reconsidering the build, using the options discussed above:
.
.
.

Feats:
1st Sw1 - Weapon Focus: Rapier, Weapon Finesse (Rapier only), Fencing Grace
2nd Sw2
3rd Sw3 - Combat Reflexes
4th Sw4 - Weapon Trick: Stylish Riposte
5th Sw5 - Dodge, Improved Critical: Rapier
6th Br1 - Improved Unarmed Strike, [Martial Flexibility 4/day]
7th Bn1 - Extra Rage, [Focused Rage, Crowd Control]
8th Sw6
9th Sw7 - Greater Weapon Focus: Rapier
10th Sw8 - Crane Style
11th Sw9 - Crane Wing
12th Sw10
13th Sw11 - Cautious Fighter, [Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, Improved Uncanny Dodge]
14th Sw12 - Lunge
15th Br2 - Weapon Specialization: Rapier, Greater Weapon Specialization: Rapier
16th Sw13
17th Sw14 - Crane Wing Riposte
18th Sw15
19th Sw16 - Extra Panache, Extra Rage
20th Sw17

I'm sacrificing Improved Initiative and the Critical feats and pushing Specialization back in favor of a much better AC and more opportunities to gain additional attacks. A nice bonus will be the ability to 'grandfather in' the next needed feat that I qualify for using Martial Flexibility (like Crane Style at 6th level). Overall, I think its a good trade off.

Here's a snap-shot of him at 7th level, with gear and whatnot, assuming he's using Focused Rage and burns the move action to activate Martial Flexibility:

Alright, I'm looking into the Crane Wing Style feats and I can see the value there, but I'm also getting pretty confused. Nevermind that multiple sources have completely different wording on the feats, just going off the PRD this is how they read:

Crane Style (Combat, Style)
Prerequisites: Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike, base attack bonus +2 or monk level 1st.
Benefit: You take only a –2 penalty on attack rolls for fighting defensively. While using this style and fighting defensively or using the total defense action, you gain an additional +1 dodge bonus to your Armor Class.

Crane Wing (Combat)
Prerequisites: Crane Style, Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike, base attack bonus +5 or monk level 5th.
Benefit: When fighting defensively with at least one hand free, you gain a +4 dodge bonus to AC against melee attacks. If you using the total defense action instead, you can deflect one melee attack that would normally hit you. An attack so deflected deals no damage and has no other effect (instead treat it as a miss). You do not expend an action when using this feat, but you must be aware of the attack and not flat-footed.

Crane Riposte (Combat)
Prerequisites: Crane Style, Crane Wing, Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike, base attack bonus +8 or monk level 7th.
Benefit: You take only a -1 penalty on attack rolls for fighting defensively. Whenever you deflect an opponent's attack using Crane Wing or lose the dodge bonus from Crane Wing because an attack missed you by 4 or less, you can make an attack of opportunity against the attacker after the attack misses.

So...

1) I would take Dodge and get a +1 bonus to AC.
2) Fighting Defensively would make that -4 to attack and +3 to AC (including the bonus from Dodge).
3) 3 ranks of Acrobatics ups that to -4 attack and +4 to AC.
4) Crane Style would make that -2 to attack and +5 to AC.
5) Crane Wing would make that -2 attack and +9 to AC (against melee attacks).

So far I'm good. But then I see the wording in Crane Riposte 'whenever you deflect an opponent's attack using Crane Wing or lose the dodge bonus from Crane Wing because an attack missed you by 4 or less...'. For argument's sake, lets assume I never intend to use the Total Defense option. Where does that 'attack missed by 4 or less' thing come in? I don't see anything referencing it in any of the other style feats.

At the moment I don't see much value in taking Crane Riposte, other than the further reduction in attack penalty, but a nice bit of synergy here is that the Halfling-only feat 'Cautious Fighter' allows you to increase the bonus from fighting defensively by another +2. Coupled with the weapon trick Stylish Riposte I can really see that being valuable.

If you're intending this to be a PFS character, take Lunge sooner. That bonus to range would help more than the ability to Sicken upon crit'ing.

also, why Sickening Critical?

My thought was that Sickening was a condition that I could inflict against which there was no save, and that it in turn would reduce the save chance against the Staggering and Stunning critical feats when they come online. Thinking about that though, so often if you land a crit your foe is already dead or nearly so, and feats would likely be better spent increasing my number of attacks via some of the options suggested above. I'm looking at that.

I appreciate all of the responses, some really good stuff here. A couple of quick questions - do you get all of the Swordmasters Flair items for the listed cost or is that a per item cost? And do you get all of the tricks associated with a particular weapon option or do you choose one specific trick each time you take the feat?

I'll definitely post more when I can get settled and can absorb everything.

Mercurial wrote:

Regarding skills, is Intimidate worth pursuing considering that Menacing Swordplay eats up a swift action and I take a pretty hefty penalty for being small (-4 I believe)? It seems too good to pass up without a second look. Also, is Acrobatics a worthwhile investment for the character? He should be without an armor penalty for most of his career and there are some bonuses out there to be had...

I don't have much advice because I haven't played a swarshbuckler. But remember that Opportune Parry & Riposte uses up your swift action for the following round. So you may not have as many as those as you hope.

Yes, that's why I'm wondering about the usefulness of Menacing Swordplay... figure most of my swift/immediate actions will be used for Charmed Life or Parry & Riposte.

Hard to get out of the mindset of our homebrew rule which grants PC's a swift and an immediate action each round, and disconnect the two from one another.

This is my first attempt at a Swashbuckler, but I am really intrigued by the class. The build below should be suitable for both PFS play and homebrew games, and I'd appreciate a general critique from those of you playing such a character (including missed legality issues with PFS) as well as any input on some of the specific questions below - thanks in advance!
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Illyrio Silversliver
Halfling 17th level Inspired Blade / 2nd level Brawler / 1st level Urban Barbarian
FCB for Swashbucklers (+1/4 uses of Charmed Life per day)

Attributes:
STR - 7 (-2)
DEX - 18 (+4) [+1 @ 4th, 8th, 12th & 16th]
CON - 14 (+2)
INT - 14 (+2)
WIS - 7 (-2)
CHA - 16 (+3)

Racial Traits:
Fleet of Foot (30' movement; replaces Slow Speed & Sure-Footed)
Small sized (+1 to attack rolls, +1 to AC, +4 to Stealth checks & -1 to CMB and CMD)
Halfling Luck (+1 to saving throws)
Keen Senses (+2 Perception checks)
Skulker (+1 attack against foes who lose their Dexterity bonus to AC; replaces Fearless & Weapon Familiarity)

Traits:
Fencer (+1 attack when making AoO's)
Irrepressible (use CHA modifier instead of WIS modifier on saves vs. Charm or Compulsion effects)

Feats:
1st Sw1 - Weapon Focus: Rapier, Weapon Finesse (Rapier only), Fencing Grace
2nd Sw2
3rd Sw3 - Combat Reflexes
4th Sw4 - Weapon Specialization: Rapier
5th Sw5 - Improved Initiative, Improved Critical: Rapier
6th Br1 - Improved Unarmed Strike, [Martial Flexibility 4/day]
7th Bn1 - Extra Rage, [Focused Rage, Crowd Control]
8th Sw6
9th Sw7 - Greater Weapon Focus: Rapier
10th Sw8 - Critical Focus
11th Sw9 - Sickening Critical
12th Sw10
13th Sw11 - Greater Weapon Specialization: Rapier, [Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, Improved Uncanny Dodge]
14th Sw12 - Lunge
15th Br2 - Staggering Critical, Critical Mastery
16th Sw13
17th Sw14 - Stunning Critical
18th Sw15
19th Sw16 - Extra Panache, Extra Rage
20th Sw17

Skills:
Acrobatics* (1-20)
Diplomacy* (odd levels)
Escape Artist* (1-20)
Intimidate* (1-20)
Knowledge: Local* (even levels)
Knowledge: Nobility* (1)
Perception* (1-20)
Stealth (2-20)

* class skill

Questions:

Should I swap out Skulker (+1 attack against foes who lose their Dexterity bonus to AC) with Underfoot Dodger (crowds are not difficult terrain, +5 Acrobatics checks to move through the spaces of larger foes)? I'm not very familiar with using Acrobatics in combat, and I don't know how often either ability would prove useful.

I absolutely love the Irrepressible trait for both flavor and mechanics, but taking into account that the Fencer trait would apply to Opportune Parry and Riposte, is there a better option out there that I'm overlooking? Would it be worth a Trait to make Stealth a class skill, considering that I'm basically maxing that out?

I dipped Brawler because I feel like being able to take any combat feat I qualify for 4/day is just too useful not to take advantage of. Whether its Deflect Arrows, Risky Striker, Blind-Fight Weapon Versatility, Combat Stamina - it really does open up a whole bag of tricks, and the dip doesn't disrupt my Fighter level progression for the purpose of Fighter-only feats.

I dipped Urban Rager because I like the versatility of Focused Rage, thought Crowd Control would serve the character well and couldn't turn down the mechanical advantage of increasing Dex AND having a Furious weapon become an available option. Initially I'll only have 12 rounds of Rage, but that should be good for at least two combats a day if not three, and its not often you see more than that, especially in PFS.

I'm strongly considering dipping yet another class - Cavalier - because it suits the character concept so well and might provide a better mechanical option than yet another level of Swashbuckler. At the moment I'm thinking Order of the Dragon for the benefits it would provide the group, or Order of the Flame that I might maximize my limited Challenge use with Glorious Challenge. The twofold question is, is it worth it to bump things like Rapier Training, Nimble, Charmed Life, etc. down another level and if so, when would be the ideal time to take it? Up until 15th level everything is carefully balanced to be able to take each feat at the very first moment it would be available (Brawler and Swashbuckler levels counting as Fighter levels), and after 15th level, is it really too late to be worried about the benefits Cavalier might get me? My thought was to take Seize the Moment as my teamwork feat (Tactician) and really have fun with my criticals, but again, that's just 1 use per day.

Any better feat options out there than Lunge at 14th level? I thought about Risky Striker, but figured I could take via Martial Flexibility as needed. I considered trying to work up the Spring Attack tree or the Dazzling Display tree, but nothing seemed to fit with the rest of what I was trying to do. I take it that since Power Attack and Piranha Strike are both out, there are no other solid damage boosting options out there? Alternatively, I could take Combat Expertise, opening up a variety of additional feats for Martial Flexibility... or would Crane Style be worth pursuing in this build?

Regarding skills, is Intimidate worth pursuing considering that Menacing Swordplay eats up a swift action and I take a pretty hefty penalty for being small (-4 I believe)? It seems too good to pass up without a second look. Also, is Acrobatics a worthwhile investment for the character? He should be without an armor penalty for most of his career and there are some bonuses out there to be had...

When it comes to gear I'm looking at the usual - mithril chain shirt, cloak of resistance, belt of dexterity, headband of charisma, eventually winged boots, etc. I'm planning on taking a Furious weapon as soon as I am able, but that leaves me wondering whether or not the Answering quality is worth pursuing as well. It seems you get diminishing returns as the weapon improves (doesn't stack with additional enhancement bonuses or even Furious) and if you have anything beyond a +1 Answering weapon you're wasting your coin. Sound right? I assume Swordmaster's Flair comes as a set of four with the initial 2,500 gp cost and are not calculated separately? If there are any other ideally suited magic items that I've overlooked, please let me know.

I know I've dumped a ton of stuff in here, and if you've gotten this far you already have my thanks. Any advice or (helpful) criticism would be most welcome.

With the release of so many new classes with similar sounding abilities, things have suddenly gotten very nuanced with regards to what counts as what (such as Swasbuckler Weapon Training not counting for Gloves of Dueling). I'm trying to find out - definitively, if possible, for the purposes of PFS - if the Focused Rage class feature of the Barbarian archetype Urban Barbarian qualifies as Rage for the purposes of using a weapon with the Furious quality.

Here is the text of the entries as I have them:

Furious:
This special ability can only be placed on melee weapons. A furious weapon serves as a focus for its wielder’s anger. When the wielder is raging or under the effect of a rage spell, the weapon’s enhancement bonus is +2 better than normal. If the wielder has a rage power that gives a skill bonus while raging (such as raging climber, raging leaper, or raging swimmer), the wielder gains an enhancement bonus to that skill whenever the weapon is wielded or held in her hand, even when she is not raging. This bonus is equal to the enhancement bonus of the weapon (and also includes the +2 if the wielder is raging).

Controlled Rage (Ex):
When an urban barbarian rages, instead of making a normal rage she may apply a +4 morale bonus to her Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution. This bonus increases to +6 when she gains greater rage and +8 when she gains mighty rage. She may apply the full bonus to one ability score or may split the bonus between several scores in increments of +2. When using a controlled rage, an urban barbarian gains no bonus on Will saves, takes no penalties to AC, and can still use Intelligence-, Dexterity-, and Charisma-based skills. This ability otherwise follows the normal rules for rage.

The final line seems to settle it for me, but I'm looking for some sort of quasi-official confirmation, or at least a good argument should I be challenged on it.

Thanks in advance!

Thanks for the clarification, guys. They sure do make things complicated, don't they?

If an arcane spell is chosen as a Ki power, does that fulfill the casting requirement for Arcane Archer?

Check out the stuff from Legendary Games. They have a slew of mythic "Righteous Crusade" plug ins. I have used several of them. Made by some of the same people who created Wrath.

Thanks for the reply!

I did a quick search and found Road to War: The Equinox Crown, which looks interesting, and then everything else was collections of stat blocks for NPC's or new magic items, nothing else with that might be used as a supplemental adventure or side quest. Is that about it on that front?

I'm revisiting WotR and trying to pre-plan out the full campaign. Ignoring the Mythic rule set (as I intend to), are there any other modules, scenarios or adventures out there either set in the Worldwound or appropriate to the setting that comes highly recommended?

Any suggestions are much appreciated.

Quote:

Two of the bigger concerns have been trying to figure out a way to get Standard action summoning and/or spontaneous casting of divine Summoning spells.

The Sacred Summons feat lets you summon creatures that match your aura's alignment as a standard action. Since you're a cleric you have an aura.

I've always found Sacred Summons to be a bit confusing, but as I understand it, the creature's type or subtype has to match your aura, not just their alignment... meaning that if I'm Lawful Good, I can use the feat to summon Archons (who possess both the Lawful and Good subtypes) but not Angels or Devas (who possess only the Good subtype)... to summon Angels and Devas as a standard action with the feat, I'd have to be Neutral Good (I think), but then I wouldn't be able to get Archons.

As a character I'm probably going to run as Chaotic Neutral, I don't know how many options that leaves for me.

I've been looking for the opportunity to play this particular concept for a while, and it appears that both Hell's Vengeance and/or Strange Aeons might offer me that chance... the concept revolves around a dwarf whom was captured by Aboleths deep, deep below the Earth and was kept as a slave, his sanity being driven to the brink. When he escaped he fled as fast and as far as he could in the one direction he knew would get him away - up, towards the surface... and when he finally emerged on a beautiful winter's night and got his first look at the surface world, the sight that greeted him was the same infinite blackness, the same... nothing, forever... that had haunted his dreams deep below. It was enough to break his mind. Thereafter he's become convinced of his (and everyone's) eventual doom and has become an occasionally muttering, occasionally ravening lunatic, but one from whom the genuine insight of fools and children will occasionally slip free. There are a lot of different directions to go from there, but that's the general concept.

This is what I want him to be able to do:

To take the Domain of Madness and get the maximum benefit from the highly versatile Visions of Madness domain power.

To specialize in summoning creatures as his primary offensive and defensive options (what he considers to be his maddened dreams given form).

Focus on eventually using Planeshift as a weapon, effectively banishing foes into the nothingness of the Void that haunts.

To be able to role-play his rantings as something mechanically effective.

My first thought would be to make him a Cleric of Azathoth, prophesying his eventual arrival as a sort of nihilistic herald of doom. Make him an Evangelist (the archetype that grants Bardic Performance), take the Madness Domain, Magical Lineage for Planeshift and a feat breakdown that looks something like this:

1st - Spell Focus: Conjuration
3rd - Augment Summoning
5th - Summon Neutral Monster
7th - Versatile Summoning
9th - Reach Spell
11th - Piercing Spell
13th - Quicken Spell
15th - Spell Perfection: Planeshift
17th - Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration

Obviously, feats are at a premium, but keep in mind, I'm not trying to make this guy a game-breaker, just trying to make him as effective as possible within the core concept.

Now, looking at some other options, I'm starting to wonder about whether I could make for a better fit as an Inquisitor, using the Monster Tactician archetype or possibly even as a Herald Caller, though I'd lose the Domain that ties all of this together. Two of the bigger concerns have been trying to figure out a way to get Standard action summoning and/or spontaneous casting of divine Summoning spells.

Any thoughts would be welcome, any advice much appreciated.

I'm very appreciative of everyone's input thus far - it seems to me that I really need to include the build so that my concerns are easier to see and some of the advice I'm being offered better addressed.
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Dwarven 1st level Inquisitor (Sanctified Slayer) / 11th level Alchemist (Lamplighter)

Attributes: (after racial modifiers)
STR - 14
DEX - 14
CON - 14
INT - 15 (+1 @ 4th, 8th & 12th)
WIS - 16
CHA - 5

Traits:
Reactionary
Glory of Old

Feats & Talents:
1st - Steel Soul
3rd - Weapon Focus: Heavy Pick
4th - Talent: Expanded Inspiration (Diplomacy, Heal, Perception, Profession, Sense Motive)
5th - Extra Talent: Quick Study
6th - Talent: Underworld Inspiration (Bluff, Disable Device, Intimidate, Sleight of Hand)
7th - Extra Talent: Inspirational Expertise
8th - Sickening Offensive
9th - Extra Talent: Alchemist Discovery?
10th - Talent: Combat Inspiration
11th - Extra Talent: Alchemist Discovery?
12th - Talent: Alchemist Discovery?

Inquisitor Abilities:
Conversion Inquisition (apply Wisdom instead of Charisma to Bluff, Diplomacy & Intimidate checks)
Monster Lore (add Wisdom modifier to Knowledge checks when identifying foes)
Stern Gaze (+1 to Intimidate & Sense Motive checks)
Studied Target (move action; gain +1 to Bluff, Knowledge, Perception, Sense Motive & Survival checks as well as +1 attack & damage rolls against target until target is dead or changed)

[That's an awful lot for a one level dip, plus spells and save bump]

Investigator Abilities:
2nd - Alchemy, Inspiration Pool, Lamplighter
3rd - Alchemical Illumination
4th - Ready for the Revelation (add Inspiration to Initiative, use Intelligence for Initiative)
5th - Studied Combat & Studied Strike, Swift Alchemy

I do delay Studied Combat for a level, but I get it at the exact same time as Quick Study and in the meantime, starting at 1st level I get Studied Target which in time will stack, so that more than makes up for the delay in my opinion.

What I don't know enough about are the Alchemical options and if I should make an effort to pursue them sooner - mutagens, with a cursory glance, seem to be a superb combat option.

Here is a snapshot of the character at 2nd & 6th level with basic gear and no spells active:

Dwarven 1st level Sanctified Slayer / 1st level Lamplighter

STR - 14, DEX - 14, CON - 14, INT - 15, WIS - 16, CHA - 5
HP 17, AC 20, Init +4, Fort +4, Reflex +4, Will +7 (+3 saves vs. Poison, +5 save vs. spells & SLA's)
Attack (War Pick): +4, 1d6+3, Crit. 20, x4

Skills:
Appraise +6, +8 involving precious metals or gemstones
Bluff +9
Craft: Alchemy +7
Diplomacy +10
Disable Device +7
Intimidate +9
Knowledge: Dungeoneering +6(+1d6), +9(+1d6) to identify abilities & weaknesses
Knowledge: Local +6(+1d6), +9(+1d6) to identify abilities & weaknesses
Knowledge: Nature +6(+1d6), +9(+1d6) to identify abilities & weaknesses
Knowledge: Religion +6(+1d6), +9(+1d6) to identify abilities & weaknesses
Perception +8, +9 when detecting traps)
Sense Motive +9
Spellcraft +6

Dwarven 1st level Sanctified Slayer / 5th level Lamplighter

STR - 14, DEX - 14, CON - 14, INT - 16, WIS - 18, CHA - 5
HP 43, AC 22, Init +5(+1d6), Fort +6, Reflex +7, Will +11 (+3 saves vs. Poison, +5 save vs. spells & SLA's)
Attack (War Pick): +10, 2d6+6, Crit. 19+, x4

Skills:
Appraise +7, +9 involving precious metals or gemstones
Bluff +14(+1d6)
Craft: Alchemy +8
Diplomacy +15(+1d6)
Disable Device +12(+1d6)
Escape Artist +6
Heal +8(+1d6)
Intimidate +13(+1d6)
Knowledge: Arcana +9(+1d6), +13(+1d6) to identify abilities & weaknesses
Knowledge: Dungeoneering +9(+1d6), +13(+1d6) to identify abilities & weaknesses
Knowledge: Local +9(+1d6), +13(+1d6) to identify abilities & weaknesses
Knowledge: Nature +9(+1d6),+13(+1d6) to identify abilities & weaknesses
Knowledge: Planes +9(+1d6), +13(+1d6) to identify abilities & weaknesses
Knowledge: Religion +9(+1d6), +13(+1d6) to identify abilities & weaknesses
Linguistics +7(+1d6)
Perception +13(+1d6), +15(+1d6) when detecting traps
Sense Motive +14(+1d6)
Spellcraft +8(+1d6)

I'm actually really happy with my skill spread as it is, though obviously there will be occasional tinkering, and that's what I want the strength of the character to be (little things like Studied Target or Guidance aren't even included above), and I'm fine with my defenses for a non-frontliner - who doesn't love a +11 save vs. Enchantments at 2nd level? What I'm looking for from those of you more experienced with Investigators and Alchemists are what alchemical options I should pursue and when and how they might synergize with the existing character, as well as what changes I might have to make to accommodate them without unraveling the whole thing. Weapon Focus seems like an early feat I could part with if necessary, but I was thinking Deific Obediance/Irori might start drifting into overkill territory. Also, is there anything I've included which looks like it might not be PFS legal (I can never keep track of all the exceptions & eratta).

Any special gear I should be especially looking at? A Keen Warpick and the usual 'Big 6' are all I'm thinking of right now.

Thanks again for all of your help and advice.

Besides high skills, what are you trying to do such as summon or buff others?

What area of skills are you interested in, such as Charisma skills?

Do you want only Investigator and Inquisitor suggestions?

That's one of the things I'm trying to figure out... from what I've been able to put together, he'll have some solid buffs and de-buffs (Blistering Invective seems ideal for him) and won't be useless in combat... I suppose once Skills have all been addressed, I'd like to be versatile enough to fill in wherever needed. I'm trying to learn about Alchemical options right now, to see what doors that might open up for me.

Right now he has really high Knowledge skills, as well as Perception, Sense Motive and the like to go along with the Social skills. I suppose I should post the build, so people can see what I'm working with?

Why would you want Wisdom to social skills when you can convert them to Int using various traits.

Clever Wordplay covers any charisma skill
Student of Philosophy covers Diplomacy and Bluff
Bruising Intellect covers Intimidate

Additional Traits is your friend or you could go Skill Focus/Orator and run all three main social skills from Linguistics.

Boosting your Int will give you far more benefit as an Investigator in the long run and give you more skill points to play with.

Also as far as Investigators go Empiricist is your friend, it is one of the few archetypes really worth taking.

Other important skills are keyed off of Wisdom and then there's Will saves and the fact that Dwarves get bonuses to Wisdom... and the Monster Lore class feature is pretty huge. I'm planning on using my limited traits and feats for other things.

I'll definitely check out the Empiricist - right now I'm kind of liking the look of Lamplighter.

As designed right now, the character will have a 16 Wisdom and an 18 Intelligence before gear, so I'm not neglecting either.

I'm looking at taking a 1-level dip into the Sacred Slayer Inquisitor for Studied Target, Conversion Inquisition for Wisdom to Diplomacy, Intimidate & Bluff and Monster Lore... then going all-in on the Investigator for everything else.

I'm trying to decide if a 2nd level of Inquisitor is worth it (for Cunning Initiative, primarily), and am unsure of what restriction pitfalls I might run into. Also, in order to remain relevant in combat at later levels, what Alchemical avenues should I pursue that are open? Any particular Investigator archetypes that seem particularly well suited to this concept?

Planning on going Dwarf with Steel Soul and Glory of Old btw.

Qhorrin, Half-Elven 2nd level Divine Hunter / 15th level Battle Oracle (Powerless Prophecy Curse)

Gr'rub, Goblin 2nd level Master of Many Styles / 15th level Brawler

Really going well so far... best part about it has been the character backgrounds and the way they tie in to the overall story.

A good out-of-combat first level wizard spell? Perhaps unseen servant or disguise self. I assume an enchantment-focused sorceror already has charm person available with better save DCs than you are likely to.

Gravity bow is good if you mostly stand back and plink at the enemy.

Generally speaking, I expect to open combat with a buff spell, attack at range and then help heal up afterwards. Generally, though the character was deliberately built to be pretty versatile.

Given that, I think Gravity Bow might be the way I go, though up til now that 'opener' as been reserved for Divine Favor (Fate's Favored trait to go along with being a Cayden Cailean worshipper).