I don't know why, but when I try to follow the tutorials I just can't seem to get it right. I get very frustrated because of it. I've tried several times and I get more and more frustrated. I avoid the drag tutorials. I don't want to do drag and they are always over the top. I had to tell one of my friends that she just isn't allowed to give me any tips anymore because she can't understand that I'm not into drag (I know you weren't suggesting that I am). I'm going to by the mirror that someone suggested earlier and see if that helps. When it comes to anything artistic, I have no talent at all and my perfectionism steps in and makes everything worse.
Speaking of drag, I was told by a friend that one of her drag queen friends said I looked fishy. Turns out that's a compliment.
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Yeah, the language evolved as binary, and trying to force people to adopt a new term is futile. The only chance is for an advert or popular sitcom to bring such a word into the wider public consciousness.
In Britain we'd never heard of the word 'zit' until a single comedian (Jasper Carrott) used it in a single monologue; now, everybody in the country knows what a zit is.
Good luck! These things are inherently unpredictable.
On the pronoun: if I see someone for the first time my mind very quickly tries to work out their gender. Sometimes this is easier than other times, but if we're not sure then we'll usually stay quiet rather than risk being wrong. It would never, never occur to me that neither pronoun would be appropriate unless I was told first.
I don't know why, but when I try to follow the tutorials I just can't seem to get it right. I get very frustrated because of it. I've tried several times and I get more and more frustrated. I avoid the drag tutorials. I don't want to do drag and they are always over the top. I had to tell one of my friends that she just isn't allowed to give me any tips anymore because she can't understand that I'm not into drag (I know you weren't suggesting that I am). I'm going to by the mirror that someone suggested earlier and see if that helps. When it comes to anything artistic, I have no talent at all and my perfectionism steps in and makes everything worse.
Speaking of drag, I was told by a friend that one of her drag queen friends said I looked fishy. Turns out that's a compliment.
As with everything else, starting out is always a learning experience. Very few people knock it out of the park when they try something they haven't done before or have only done a few times.
Set your ambition level accordingly (I know that's difficult, I'm a perfectionist in some areas too) and make sure you have the very basics covered. Practice the most basic things until you feel comfortable doing those before you move on to more elaborate techniques.It's the same advice I gave when I taught miniature painting. :-)
Set your ambition level accordingly (I know that's difficult, I'm a perfectionist in some areas too) and make sure you have the very basics covered. Practice the most basic things until you feel comfortable doing those before you move on to more elaborate techniques.
It's the same advice I gave when I taught miniature painting. :-)
I picked up miniature painting easily. I can't seem to do the same for my eyes. I've been looking at tutorials and I think because they make it look so easy and I can't seem to do with the same level of ease I get frustrated. I usually pick up on things quickly. There are a handful of things that I really want to learn but for some reason I just can't seem to get them down. This is one of them. Eval scripts and gizmos for Hero Lab, and chemistry are two others. The chemistry is stopping me from becoming a pharmacist.
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Way to go bob. You did it!
I picked up miniature painting easily. I can't seem to do the same for my eyes. I've been looking at tutorials and I think because they make it look so easy and I can't seem to do with the same level of ease I get frustrated. I usually pick up on things quickly. There are a handful of things that I really want to learn but for some reason I just can't seem to get them down. This is one of them. Eval scripts and gizmos for Hero Lab, and chemistry are two others. The chemistry is stopping me from becoming a pharmacist.Set your ambition level accordingly (I know that's difficult, I'm a perfectionist in some areas too) and make sure you have the very basics covered. Practice the most basic things until you feel comfortable doing those before you move on to more elaborate techniques.
It's the same advice I gave when I taught miniature painting. :-)
Since you live in a large city I would think that you're not alone in wanting to learn these things properly. I would also think that there might be a "network" of some kind for people in your "makeup-situation" (whether crossdressers, trans* people in various stages of transitioning or even cisgendered girls/women who want to improve their makeup skills). Maybe it would be possible to arrange makeup meetings with professional cosmetologists (or someone equally skilled in the area) where you can get some hands-on instructions?
I know that this is something that's often done in a home or a boutique setting among cisgendered women, often with a representative from one of the major cosmetics makers. I actually know of at least 3 transwomen who are sales representatives for such makers (I think they're all with MAC Cosmetics).
I've pretty much given up on groups for support of just about anything to do with this part of me. I don't find them helpful or very welcoming.
After my post last night I did send a message to a friend who works for Boots and asked her for help. We're going to see what we can do about getting together.
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For those of you who don't follow Lambda Legal's blog posts, the two posts regarding my settlement went up today. Lambda's Blog Post On the Matter
Also, random question for the other dudes that like dudes here: is it uncommon to like, like, masculine men? All the other gay and bi guys I know only go for effeminate girly types, and I mean I like those too, but really manly men are just YEAH! I dunno. It just makes me feel weird.
I know of many gay men who prefer traditionally masculine types in partners. It's not quite my taste, but there are enough of them that it's a pretty well-known type.
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For those of you who don't follow Lambda Legal's blog posts, the two posts regarding my settlement went up today. Lambda's Blog Post On the Matter
Congratulations on the win! :-)
It's always a good thing when discrimination can be curtailed.
Man do you ever just like sit somewhere and wonder "hey I wonder how many other queer people are here?" and just look around? And you just imagine, one of the people you run into isn't straight but neither of you would ever know it? I don't know why I let my mind wander on such things at work and stuff. I kinda wish gaydar actually existed so when we saw each other we could just like, I dunno, give a thumbs up or something.
Also, random question for the other dudes that like dudes here: is it uncommon to like, like, masculine men? All the other gay and bi guys I know only go for effeminate girly types, and I mean I like those too, but really manly men are just YEAH! I dunno. It just makes me feel weird.
I don't really have a type, but yeah, masculine men are one of my preferred.
For those of you who don't follow Lambda Legal's blog posts, the two posts regarding my settlement went up today. Lambda's Blog Post On the Matter
Sorry it had to happen, but congratulations on the win. :)
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And WOW. Just wow. TIME MAGAZINE THINKS I'M NEWS. That is hard to process.
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Man do you ever just like sit somewhere and wonder "hey I wonder how many other queer people are here?" and just look around? And you just imagine, one of the people you run into isn't straight but neither of you would ever know it? I don't know why I let my mind wander on such things at work and stuff. I kinda wish gaydar actually existed so when we saw each other we could just like, I dunno, give a thumbs up or something.
Also, random question for the other dudes that like dudes here: is it uncommon to like, like, masculine men? All the other gay and bi guys I know only go for effeminate girly types, and I mean I like those too, but really manly men are just YEAH! I dunno. It just makes me feel weird.
On the first question, yes I have. Like if I'm on my commuter train, I look around and think, "Statistically speaking, I am unlikely to be the only LGBT person in this car. So who else..."
Anyway.
On the second question, I think it depends on your "scene". There is definitely a fashionable scene in many larger cities where (in my utterly unscientific opinion) I think many gay men act a certain way to gain acceptance and credibility. (The reasons for the phenomenon of "effeminate" mannerisms among gay and bi men is a complicated one, and there are many factors to consider that I will not dig into here.) Away from that scene, I find a greater diversity in dispositions, mannerisms, and body types. My boyfriend and I strike most people as "ordinary guys". *shrug*
Similarly to the comments of another poster upthread about butch lesbians, men with mannerisms that are considered "effeminate" should not be considered less "male" because of it. Over the years, I have come to realize that the qualities that I associate with masculinity run far deeper than superficial consideration of voice inflection and hand gestures.
And then there's the bear scene which is a whole separate question. You try telling one of those guys they're femmy and see how that works out...
Whoa.
Go out and buy yourself something nice; that's a bit of honour worth celebrating. ;)
But don't spend everything at once... ;P
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Bob, love the pics. That dress is super flattering on you. Really glad you had a good time.:)
It really is very flattering and I'm happy that you had a great time! Also super-loving the nails (my birthday manicure is thrashed from moving—sigh)!
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But don't spend everything at once... ;PWhoa.
Go out and buy yourself something nice; that's a bit of honour worth celebrating. ;)
A good chunk is spoken for already. In a bit of poetic justice, I've set aside about half for surgery. :) I deposited the check this morning. I'm still a little overwhelmed at how big this got so quickly. It was referenced on the Huffington Post today as well.
:)
A good chunk is spoken for already. In a bit of poetic justice, I've set aside about half for surgery. :)But don't spend everything at once... ;PWhoa.
Go out and buy yourself something nice; that's a bit of honour worth celebrating. ;)
Fitting.
It was the first thing I did after getting the check was call and set up my appointment for it. I have less than a year, and it's exhilarating!
Awesome! :D
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Following up on this subject from a few days ago, correct pronoun usage regarding people you just met.
I've said that in any situation where I meet a new person and their gender is not obvious (for any given value of 'obvious') my reaction is to withhold any pronoun until a gender becomes clear, to avoid being wrong and causing offence.
Without any further agonising, my natural expectation is a binary male/female one, and (rightly or wrongly) expect this expectation to be near universal.
I don't want to live in ignorance, so if there's a better way to approach it I'd like to know.
It occurs that even trans* people face this same dilemma. Trans* people meet new people and, presumably, subconsciously assign a likely gender from that binary male/female expectation, even before their conscious mind kicks in with other possibilities.
So the question to the trans* community is this: how do you deal with this situation?
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Dovetailing off of Malachi's point, it can be hard on both sides of the fence. Asking a cis or a trans person what their gender is or what pronoun they prefer can be just as insulting as misgendering them. And it's also incredibly difficult for anyone who prefers X pronoun to just tell people that (who knows how people would react?)
I am a sagittarius. I put my foot/hoof in my mouth and make no bones when I am corrected.
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For those of you who don't follow Lambda Legal's blog posts, the two posts regarding my settlement went up today....
Cori,
Congratulations on this. Way to go.
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It was the first thing I did after getting the check was call and set up my appointment for it. I have less than a year, and it's exhilarating!
Very, very happy for you.
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So if someone outside of the trans* community asked a trans person who is presenting as the gender they identify as, "Should I call you 'he' or 'she'?" - that wouldn't be considered offensive?
A former coworker of mine actually had a lot of drama at work because she was told that a child (who had a phobia of men) may be scared of her because "they'll think you're a man". In many regards, this coworker of mine had a very 'butch' look, but she was incredibly upset that someone would not consider her a woman.
Yes, part of this is the problem of binary expectations, but the actual act of questioning someone's gender can often times be quite problematic - especially if you get that a lot for not conforming.
FWIW, I would be kind of confused if anyone ever asked me about pronoun usage. Maybe not offended, but I'd certainly be questioning why they might have done that!
It really is very flattering and I'm happy that you had a great time! Also super-loving the nails (my birthday manicure is thrashed from moving—sigh)!Bob, love the pics. That dress is super flattering on you. Really glad you had a good time.:)
I've never gotten a manicure. I don't want to work with one. Those were press on nails. I think I'm going to buy a bunch of them.
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TanithT, I think ultimately we agree on the fundamentals here - i.e., misgendering people ain't cool and you should do your best to answer to people's requests. I just think that it's not as easy or clear-cut as you make it out to be, especially when you're involving people who are probably not as informed about trans*/gender issues as you might be.
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And WOW. Just wow. TIME MAGAZINE THINKS I'M NEWS. That is hard to process.
I'm a little late to the party, but CONGRATS LADY!! :DD
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Edit congrats Cori :-)
Had an interesting discussion with my 9 year old the other day. An ad for a discussion panel show called Insight on one of our government run TV stations (SBS) was having a discussion about young transgendered people.
http://www.sbs.com.au/insight/
After watching the ad my 9 year old asked why... We wanted to keep our explanation simple, clear and compassionate.
We went with - sometimes people are born into bodies that do not match who they are. Some times there are girls who have bodies of boys and boys who have bodies of girls. It can be very confusing and difficult for them, but you treat them as who they know themselves to be.
Then came the question can they fix it... We said we said sometimes through surgery, and medicine and that it can be very expensive and not everybody can afford it.
We said then said you should never make fun of or tease people no matter who they are.
Should we have said more or said it differently or is that the right amont of info for a 9 year old.
Should we have said more or said it differently or is that the right amont of info for a 9 year old.
Going by what I learned during my, admittedly short (3-½ year), career as a substitute teacher, I'd say you hit the right amount fairly well.
Should we have said more or said it differently or is that the right amont of info for a 9 year old.
If the 9 year old hadn't more questions after you finished explaining it was right amount for now ;)
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Edit congrats Cori :-)
Had an interesting discussion with my 9 year old the other day. An ad for a discussion panel show called Insight on one of our government run TV stations (SBS) was having a discussion about young transgendered people.
http://www.sbs.com.au/insight/
After watching the ad my 9 year old asked why... We wanted to keep our explanation simple, clear and compassionate.
We went with - sometimes people are born into bodies that do not match who they are. Some times there are girls who have bodies of boys and boys who have bodies of girls. It can be very confusing and difficult for them, but you treat them as who they know themselves to be.
Then came the question can they fix it... We said we said sometimes through surgery, and medicine and that it can be very expensive and not everybody can afford it.
We said then said you should never make fun of or tease people no matter who they are.
Should we have said more or said it differently or is that the right amont of info for a 9 year old.
That sounds absolutely perfect! Thank you for teaching your child acceptance and love!
Should we have said more or said it differently or is that the right amont of info for a 9 year old.
That sounds about right for someone that age.
[ Genderfluidity isn't common, but it's not so very rare either. From 0.5 to 1% of the population, depending on the study you're looking at, is some flavor of genderfluid, genderqueer, gender questioning or transgendered. Chances are pretty good that you know or have known someone in this boat, whether or not they ever felt safe enough with you to reveal it.
Just to reinforce this point, if those are the percentages of the population in, say, the US, (and if I didn't screw up the math), that's between about 1.57 and 3.14 million people in the US alone.
To those asking about pronouns, etc., thanks for asking about this subject. I'll second TanthT's responses.
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@TanithT: thanks for the insights. : )
In a known group of trans* people it seems that the correct etiquette is generally known and accepted.
Also, when you are out and about amongst the general population, most people 'present' as clearly male or female, so finding the correct pronoun is not a challenge, even for me. : )
What about the difficult cases? When you are out and about and meet (for the first time) someone who's gender is not obvious, how do you approach the whole pronoun issue?
@TanithT: thanks for the insights. : )
In a known group of trans* people it seems that the correct etiquette is generally known and accepted.
Also, when you are out and about amongst the general population, most people 'present' as clearly male or female, so finding the correct pronoun is not a challenge, even for me. : )
What about the difficult cases? When you are out and about and meet (for the first time) someone who's gender is not obvious, how do you approach the whole pronoun issue?
I've worked in retail/customer service for over 10 years, and if I'm any kind of unsure, I'm careful not to use any pronouns at all until they or someone they're with does, and it works pretty well for me.
The hardest HARDEST habit to break (and I still do it from time to time) was changing from "how's it going guys?" to "how's it going, folks?".