Satria Everton, the Sylvan Huntress desperately needs bow proficiency.
If I were building her I'd drop one of Extend Spell (what is this supposed to be for specifically?) or Heavy Armor Proficiency and take Extra Revelation:Wood Armor. There are enough good Revelations in Wood that you won't regret spending a feat on this.
I'd take Martial Weapon Proficiency:Longbow with the other.
I think this kind of build really might benefit from a little multi-classing though.
Haha, yeah, I was actually thinking about that. I think my resolution is to actually just strip out the whole Sample Builds section. I've been thinking about it all day and I don't think it provides anything useful to the guide. It's just bloat.
I'm going to tear it all down and replace it with an equipment section.
I feel I should mention Noble Scion:War (ISWG version) even though the book it is in isn't covered here: Charisma to initiative is amazing and should be taken on almost any Oracle it is allowed for.
Oh my god, yes. That, paired with the Battle's War Sight and Improved Initiative would be, well, ridiculous. +8-10 on initiative rolls and you get choose your favorite from 2 or 3 rolls? Amazing.
Perhaps even better for a Nature or Lore oracle who'd basically be replacing dexterity entirely.
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Yes that feat. It is amazing.
Btw, since you started this guide I fell in love with the oracle class and have since made four PFS oracles with a 5th in the works. All of them are substantially different and fun as hell to play.
I'm very glad you keep updating the guide. I've referenced it, along with this thread, quite a bit. I'm really looking forward to your equipment section.
Yes that feat. It is amazing.
Btw, since you started this guide I fell in love with the oracle class and have since made four PFS oracles with a 5th in the works. All of them are substantially different and fun as hell to play.
I'm very glad you keep updating the guide. I've referenced it, along with this thread, quite a bit. I'm really looking forward to your equipment section.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: writing this guide changed my perspective on the class. Paizo did a wonderful job recreating the class from its 3.5 counterpart (Favored Soul) without ever making it feel like a second string cleric. It's powerful, unique, and occupies a significant position somewhere between arcane and divine that makes me really happy.
I'm glad you've enjoyed the guide, too! It's been a real love/hate situation on my side. I've invested a lot into it (so have a lot of the posters here in this ridiculously long thread) and I'd hate to see it fall into obscurity because it got out of date. Each rulebook has inflicted significant changes on the nature of the class. That's not to say that it becomes more/less powerful with each book, but rather the interaction of spells, feats, and abilities makes the entire class something different to play with. I think, on the whole, Paizo has done a good job of keeping the class from getting too powerful with splat books. The half-elf's Paragon Surge spell is probably the only thing I'd say is "too powerful," but really only if you seek to exploit it. On its own and in the hands of a reasonable player it would just be a very versatile ability.
As for equipment, though, that's gonna be a long ride. I only recently touched Ultimate Equipment. It's a lot of material to sift through. I've been digging through d20pfsrd.com to read over a lot of it and have kept a word doc open to take notes in. I imagine I'll need to read over all of it a few (dozen) times to really get a good feel for it and how it interacts with the class. Haha, I haven't done a great job keeping the guide trim of bloat, so I'm trying to avoid that with the newest section.
I just hope I push myself hard enough to finish it before the next book comes out.
More fun for the idea of dumping dexterity: Putting your initiative and reflex save (I don't think it works for AC or CMD though) on charisma lets you boost them with a circlet of persuasion.
Yeah, so far there aren't any options for an oracle of nature or lore to completely dump dexterity, but they can get damn close.
Soothsayer's Raiment (APG) and Ring of Revelation (UE, but in one of the core books previously) are worth a mention. With UMD (You'll need a +19 mod to get it to work consistently, but with it as a class skill and a charisma focus, that's very easy, any oracle that starts with 18 charisma gets it by level 8 with just a Circlet of Persuasion) they can give mysteries from other Revelations, which is very nice.
That's somewhat shaky ground. UMD allows you to activate an item, but the item doesn't actually do anything- it just grants a subset class feature. You can use UMD to emulate a class feature but not use it, and if you can't use it you can't use the revelation tied to it.
Eh, it's messy. The forums have buzzed about if you can or can't, and the FAQ has been silent. I'd personally disallow it, but I know at least two DMs who'd give it an okay.
I was wondering if y'all could offer any advice or insight for a Oracle that I am looking to create for Rise of the Runelords. Basically he is haunted with ghosts of his very distant Thassilonian ancestors that are urging him to Varisia and the beginning of the module. He is obsessed with learning and uncovering as much as he can about his people, and Xian, attaining some of the power of his people and attempting to bring the lords to justice.
I would imagine him as a Caster/Controller style Oracle, but I cannot really find a fit for a mystery, and I am at a total loss at what would make for good spells for him. The level 1 spells seem very iffy, I have as of now Cause Fear and Burning Disarm.
I was wondering if y'all could offer any advice or insight for a Oracle that I am looking to create for Rise of the Runelords. Basically he is haunted with ghosts of his very distant Thassilonian ancestors that are urging him to Varisia and the beginning of the module. He is obsessed with learning and uncovering as much as he can about his people, and Xian, attaining some of the power of his people and attempting to bring the lords to justice.
I would imagine him as a Caster/Controller style Oracle, but I cannot really find a fit for a mystery, and I am at a total loss at what would make for good spells for him. The level 1 spells seem very iffy, I have as of now Cause Fear and Burning Disarm.
Going over the lore in the wiki (yes, I had to wiki it) I'd say that Lore is by far your strongest choice for mystery. The Thassilon empire has rich ties to rune magic, which fits very well with the Lore mystery. I'd probably flavor the spells to have a runic theme.
What race were you thinking? Distant ties to the empire seems to suggest human, but Elf or any of the half-blood races would be equally appropriate thanks to interbreeding. If you went Elf you could take the elf's racial archetype and pick up the most thematic arcane spells for your distant heritage.
You might also go Heavens, as the Thassilon empire had ties to Desna and a number of mysterious deities.
As for spells it's hard to say really. For a caster I'd always recommend Bless- especially if you add a "rune" component like a bright mark appearing on the chest of everyone affected. Fluff shouldn't be an issue. Obscurring mist is particularly powerful at 1-4 level, too.
For spells higher than 1st I'd say you really shouldn't miss out on the summon monster series since Thassilon was big on opression and slavery. I'd really recommend summoning fiends every once in a while, even if you didn't "mean to." Calm Emotions also has some oppressive vibes that you shouldn't pass up. Vision of Hell is likewise a good choice.
I was thinking Human, I just feel it fits thematically better, at least the vision I have for the character.
I was really working between Lore,Time, and Heavens. Lore does seem like a pretty solid fit, maybe with the dual-curse archetype? My DM suggested I could take Tongues with the caveat that I speak Thassilonian during combat in lieu of the other languages. That makes it very manageable, and probably haunted to finish the flavor and pick up some neat spells as well.
Would Eldritch Heritage: Arcane be a worthy investment, or should I save for more metamagic?
I was wondering if y'all could offer any advice or insight for a Oracle that I am looking to create for Rise of the Runelords. Basically he is haunted with ghosts of his very distant Thassilonian ancestors that are urging him to Varisia and the beginning of the module. He is obsessed with learning and uncovering as much as he can about his people, and Xian, attaining some of the power of his people and attempting to bring the lords to justice.
I would imagine him as a Caster/Controller style Oracle, but I cannot really find a fit for a mystery, and I am at a total loss at what would make for good spells for him. The level 1 spells seem very iffy, I have as of now Cause Fear and Burning Disarm.
Going over the lore in the wiki (yes, I had to wiki it) I'd say that Lore is by far your strongest choice for mystery. The Thassilon empire has rich ties to rune magic, which fits very well with the Lore mystery. I'd probably flavor the spells to have a runic theme.
What race were you thinking? Distant ties to the empire seems to suggest human, but Elf or any of the half-blood races would be equally appropriate thanks to interbreeding. If you went Elf you could take the elf's racial archetype and pick up the most thematic arcane spells for your distant heritage.
You might also go Heavens, as the Thassilon empire had ties to Desna and a number of mysterious deities.
As for spells it's hard to say really. For a caster I'd always recommend Bless- especially if you add a "rune" component like a bright mark appearing on the chest of everyone affected. Fluff shouldn't be an issue. Obscurring mist is particularly powerful at 1-4 level, too.
For spells higher than 1st I'd say you really shouldn't miss out on the summon monster series since Thassilon was big on opression and slavery. I'd really recommend summoning fiends every once in a while, even if you didn't "mean to." Calm Emotions also has some oppressive vibes that you shouldn't pass up. Vision of Hell is likewise a good...
I was thinking Human, I just feel it fits thematically better, at least the vision I have for the character.
I was really working between Lore,Time, and Heavens. Lore does seem like a pretty solid fit, maybe with the dual-curse archetype? My DM suggested I could take Tongues with the caveat that I speak Thassilonian during combat in lieu of the other languages. That makes it very manageable, and probably haunted to finish the flavor and pick up some neat spells as well.
Would Eldritch Heritage: Arcane be a worthy investment, or should I save for more metamagic?
EH: Arcane is a fantastic choice for this sort of character, who I imagine sort of rides the line between arcane and divine anyways. I'd recommend picking up Improved Familiar at 11th level to get a little imp companion. Very, very appropriate.
No oracle wants more than 3 metamagic feats- 4 at the very, very max. They offer versatility to be sure, but only to a certain point. Wait until you've got a good idea of what your spells will be before you pick metamagic, to. Get your money's worth.
Dual-cursed tongues/haunted is a great choice for this sort of character, though being limited to only Thassilonian means that all of your language dependent spells are right out, and I see that sort of thing as being very important for this kind of character. I don't know how you see this character, but I'm picturing him as a fiercely driven adventurer slowly pushing into madness as the ghosts of his ancestry creep deeper into his dreams and magic. Sort of like a slow ride to the dark side, despite the character's better intentions.
You might consider swapping Tongues for Wasting though. I wouldn't use the standard "rotting" flavor, but perhaps you could just be utterly sleep deprived and grow more and more gaunt and sickly looking as the cries of Thassilon call out to you while you slumber restlessly.
Just a few thoughts.
I have a quick question about Mantle of Moonlight and it's Rage touch ability and any errata. This seems to be an incredibly powerful ability to shut down even the most accomplished caster IF, for some reason, the target of the ability is not able to end the Rage as a free action. RAW a creature raging can end as a free action. We had a situation come up in a game where our Oracle would of effectively killed the Wizard we had been chasing for 3 modules by simply running up and touching, no save, no SR, him with this ability. This seems very powerful for an 8th level Oracle.
Need to know how it works and all searches yielded broken links. We all talked agreed that it just made the wizard recover from the rage for a round. Thanks for any help provided!
So far all we have to go on are the actual wording of the ability and the official FAQ, which you can read here.
Is it very powerful? Absolutely. But not unreasonably so. Rage only shuts down their ability to cast spells but they can still act, so in that way it's very similar to a no-save silence spell that lasts a MUCH shorter duration. It's also susceptible to dispel magic and immunity to emotion/mind-affecting/compulsion. Also, as it's based on a spell it is subject to SR. Plus the creatures most affected by the ability (casters) always have something to fall back on. Divine sorts can always rely on physical prowess and mages should have a few ways to avoid the attack in the first place.
Whether or not the target can willingly end the rage is up for debate. As the spell is designed as a buff it makes sense to allow it, but allowing an enemy to willing dismiss it makes the ability useless. Also, the spell has a listed duration and is dismissable, which makes me think that the duration is exactly as listed.
Your group is of course able to rule however s/he likes, but I feel the ruling made one of the better additions of the Heavens oracle utterly worthless. Had my group popped up that rule on me I'd have asked swap the ability out on the spot. Mantle of Moonlight is great for exactly one thing: turning off a single caster's ability to cast spells. It's only an instant win if your DM is in the habit of throwing up a single caster against your party. Your DM should have better prepared his/her encounters rather than nerf an ability s/he knew about in advance when it overcame an entire plot.
tl;dr: Yes, it's powerful, but not unreasonably so. It's great in certain situations but might be useless 5 days out of the week. A good DM could plan encounters to provide it use without invalidating his/her work.
Edit: I apparently misread your post. Corrected to apply to what you actually wrote.
Forgive me if this has been brought up earlier, but it seems to me that in the guide you are suggesting that adding a metamagic feat to a spell increases the spells level in regards to the DC to save against it?
Whether or not this is what you intended to come across, this is the impression that I got from reading things like-
"Bouncing Spell (***): A +1 boost to the spell level is a good way to ensure that your spell is going to hit
somebody."
I would just like to point out that metamagic spells do not affect the save DCs and in no way raise the level of the spells to which they are applied. They simply force you to use a higher level spell slot in order to cast the spell.-
"In all ways, a metamagic spell operates at its original spell level, even
though it is prepared and cast as a higher-level spell.
Saving throw modifications are not changed unless stated
otherwise in the feat description." -from the CRB
Just wanted to end by saying that I think your work on this guide is awesome. I would love to see a guide for every class from you but I understand that these things take loads of time play testing and research.
Forgive me if this has been brought up earlier, but it seems to me that in the guide you are suggesting that adding a metamagic feat to a spell increases the spells level in regards to the DC to save against it?
Whether or not this is what you intended to come across, this is the impression that I got from reading things like-
"Bouncing Spell (***): A +1 boost to the spell level is a good way to ensure that your spell is going to hit
somebody."I would just like to point out that metamagic spells do not affect the save DCs and in no way raise the level of the spells to which they are applied. They simply force you to use a higher level spell slot in order to cast the spell.-
"In all ways, a metamagic spell operates at its original spell level, even
though it is prepared and cast as a higher-level spell.
Saving throw modifications are not changed unless stated
otherwise in the feat description." -from the CRBJust wanted to end by saying that I think your work on this guide is awesome. I would love to see a guide for every class from you but I understand that these things take loads of time play testing and research.
That's a solid point. I occasionally get too caught up in my own terminology that it's fairly easy to misconstrue information. Like here, for instance.
What I meant to say was "a +1 boost to the spell slot..." but clearly didn't articulate this very well. I've been playing spellcasters for years now so I'm pretty familiar with the metamagic rules, despite how all that might read. :)
I'll skim the guide and see if there's any other areas I was verbally inaccurate.
Also, you're the first person to bring it up, so thanks! Any effort to tighten up the guide is great in my book.
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Is a more updated version of the guide? Say with the Wrecker curse? I want to know your opinion on it, and what color you'd make it for useability and for what you gain vs. what you lose.
Ah, yeah, those new curses were (thankfully) in supplement books so I chose not to review them. The Advanced Race Guide knocked me on my ass when that came out, so I'm glad to let a few books pass over.
Still, if you're looking for a total review, I'd probably rate the whole thing red. Let me break it down.
Broken - First of all, it's not clear to me if the broken condition is applied to only held/equipped items or if it applies to everything you've got equipped (armor). I choose to go with the first interpretation of only things in your actual hands, otherwise this is bright-freaking-red.
Broken status - This is pretty debilitating for both warrior and caster types, and it never gets better. Warrior types take -2 to attack and damage forever and have their weapon's crit range reduced to 20/x2, so that limits a lot of decent weapons. Shields only get half their AC bonus, so it's pretty worthless going that route as well. You also take a -2 penalty to skill checks requiring a tool (like heal and disable device). Wands & Staves also take a huge hit here, effectively halving their usefulness. This is a very rough penalty for any type of oracle. Weapon issues can be circumvented with natural weapons or pursuing unarmed combat (perhaps a 1 level dip into monk?).
Disable Device - This is deceptively bad. First, you can't deal with magical traps at all using this skill, but it's at least useful in dealing with the non-magical types. Sort of. It overcomes Wrecker's applied penalty of -2 and lets you reduce the time from several rounds to just 1 move action. Is that worth it? Maybe once in an entire campaign, or more if your DM is generous with the scenarios. The other great use for Disable Device is opening locks, which you will forever take a -2 penalty to doing. After level 5 you're actually better off sundering locks and traps.
5 - This is kinda nice, actually, if you're into the whole smash-in-the-door thing. You can sunder a LOT of stuff, especially if you're a half-orc. Keep in mind that you're still doing -2 attack/damage unless you're using a natural weapon. By level 10 you can bust through most stuff pretty effortlessly, so don't be surprised when your DM starts littering the campaign with enchanted locks and adamantine doors.
10 - Meh. Again, maybe useful once or twice. This makes a point to mention objects, but objects don't have Damage Reduction- they have hardness, and that's what the level 5 ability is for. If your DM rules otherwise this is pretty great.
15 - Again, deceptively terrible. At level 15 lots of creatures don't even bother to use weapons, so this is useless. Those that do use weapons are going to be using enchanted weapons, which are very expensive and probably the main source of your group's income. It may look cool to disintegrate your enemy's +4 Unholy Bastard Sword in a big show-down, but all of your allies are going to be pissed when all you did was end the fight 3 rounds earlier and cost them all a huge chunk of cash. This is only useful on creatures using mundane/cheap weapons and then only after you've been struck.
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I asked James Jacobs about the armor thing and he said "the Wrecker curse only affects held objects, and even then only when you use them or equip them. That more or less limits the effects to things like weapons, shields, wands, staves, rods, and certain miscellaneous items and tools." So your interpretation was correct.
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Guide Update: I thought long and hard about it and decided to pull the equipment section from the guide. I had it about two-thirds done (not uploaded) when I realized that it wasn't adding much to the overall guide at all. I know that there might be some pushback on this decision, but I really feel that the 4th section was unneeded and made the guide more dense/wordy/long (choose one).
This was a frustrating decision considering how much of the equipment I've combed through, but it does provide me with one very satisfying thing to say:
Well, until Paizo produces another book. I've still got every intention of keeping this guide up-to-date.
I've actually been considering producing a second guide, but I'm not sure which class to focus on. I'm a ground-up kinda guy so I wouldn't lean on another guide by making an "Expansion" to the guide, and some of my favorite classes have already been covered. I'm considering taking a stab at Cleric, Fighter, or Ranger since those seem to need the most love.
Anyways, I'm done! It's very exciting.
did you get the Winter Mystery added? Since you know, it was added to the game last month :P.
did you get the Winter Mystery added? Since you know, it was added to the game last month :P.
Haha, I had to look that up. You nearly gave me a heart attack. The Winter mystery is part of the golarion series, not the paizo "soft core" series, so I'm omitting it from the guide.
So, I'm trying to make a casting focused Oracle of Life for an upcoming game, and it seems like you noticed the same thing I did (based on your ratings): there aren't really any great level 1 spells to take (well, not at level 1 at least).
I ended up with Murderous Command as my main spell (since it took one guy out for one round, potentially drew AoOs, and could potentially take a second out if the first guy killed him), but yeah, it's slim pickings.
It almost seems like the divine casters are expected to be warriors--I really couldn't build a level 1 Oracle of Life that could consistently contribute without hitting things with a stick. Eventually, I can ditch the weapons, but at level 1, I think I'm stuck.
So, I'm trying to make a casting focused Oracle of Life for an upcoming game, and it seems like you noticed the same thing I did (based on your ratings): there aren't really any great level 1 spells to take (well, not at level 1 at least).
I ended up with Murderous Command as my main spell (since it took one guy out for one round, potentially drew AoOs, and could potentially take a second out if the first guy killed him), but yeah, it's slim pickings.
It almost seems like the divine casters are expected to be warriors--I really couldn't build a level 1 Oracle of Life that could consistently contribute without hitting things with a stick. Eventually, I can ditch the weapons, but at level 1, I think I'm stuck.
Honestly, it's not divine casters- it's just the cleric/oracle. First circle spells for an oracle are the worst of any level, and you're shoehorned into buffing & mediocrity. The list gets a LOT better as soon as you hit second circle spells.
What this means for an oracle is that your first mystery spell is very important for a lowbie. At second level you get your first bonus spell and if it's a good one (like Heavens or Flame) it quickly overcomes the hurdle, but if it's a bad one you'll suffer until fourth level.
Don't be discouraged by having to use a weapon though. None of the caster classes have enough spells to go around at this level, so all of the "pure" casters have to resort to their other tricks. You might not have the flare of a druid firing off an energy bolt or a sorcerer landing a dazing touch, but your longspear is just as effective.
So, I'm trying to make a casting focused Oracle of Life for an upcoming game, and it seems like you noticed the same thing I did (based on your ratings): there aren't really any great level 1 spells to take (well, not at level 1 at least).
I ended up with Murderous Command as my main spell (since it took one guy out for one round, potentially drew AoOs, and could potentially take a second out if the first guy killed him), but yeah, it's slim pickings.
It almost seems like the divine casters are expected to be warriors--I really couldn't build a level 1 Oracle of Life that could consistently contribute without hitting things with a stick. Eventually, I can ditch the weapons, but at level 1, I think I'm stuck.
It's not on the list because it's from the Inner Sea World Guide, but Unbreakable Heart is a pretty good level 1 spell. Helps against Fear, Confusion, and while it doesn't protect against Charm, it does help if it's used to directly oppose an ally.
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Ran into an interesting use of this revelation in PFS.
Moonlight Bridge (Su): You summon a bridge of shimmering moonlight. The 10-foot-wide span touches the ground at a point adjacent to your position. From this point it can extend in any direction for 10 feet per oracle level. The path persists until you have crossed over the bridge or for 24 hours, whichever is shorter. You may summon a moonlight bridge a number of times per day equal to your Charisma bonus. Should the bridge be attacked, treat it as a wall of force.
Any direction in this case=straight up. Monster is entering in a 20 ft space. Oracle does this one round and blocks 10 ft to protect dying party member. Second round, (realizing this works, and the GM has just read the revelation looking for reasonable justification to block it) blocks off the other 10 ft. Creature has to go around, buying party time to buff/heal.
Basically, at first level, we had a wall of force working for us. Seeing as it could be used to block passages and other things, the potential goes up.
Looking at this interpretation, I could see upgrading the bridge to blue.
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Again, I agree. But I still think that the most common interpretation of an 8 intelligence is "Thog like puppies! Thog smash puny talky man!"Speaking mechanically, I'd probably agree with you (despite being a total skill whore). However when I look at intelligence I don't just see bonus skill points- I see an RP justification for competence. A penalty to your intelligence hinders your roleplaying in so many more ways than a penalty to wisdom.I only half agree with you - I think this is partly because many DMs and players have a much clearer idea of what Intelligence means in concrete terms than they do about Wisdom, and partly because a low wisdom can easily be flavored as "prone to embracing bad ideas", which is in many cases what adventurers are expected to do anyway. :)
That said, an 8 intelligence and decent wisdom doesn't have to be an idiot; such a character could just as easily be your classic undereducated folk-wisdom sort. ("Now, I don't know much about your arcane lore, but I can tell a bad idea when I see one..")
I just rolled up a Half-Elf Wood Oracle, and I went with the following stats on a 25 point buy: 16 Str, 15 Dex, 10 Con, 8 Int, 10 Wis, 16 Chr (+2 for racial bonus to make it 18 ). I needed the 15 Dex to qualify for Two-Weapon Fighting, which is a must for a Wood Oracle using Shillelagh and a quarterstaff. I went with the 8 Int because she was from a wood elf tribe in the M'wangi jungle when Katapesh slavers saw her gathering herbs one day and kidnapped her, selling her into a harem. She escaped from there (thanks to the spirits of the wood guiding her... her curse is "Haunted" as she hears wooden objects talking to her), and has now become an adventurer because the voices say she has a destiny to fulfill.
In her case, I view the 8 Int as a lack of book learning, no experience with civilization and no formal education beyond that of a jungle tribe life and the little the other women taught her in the harem. It's not that she's stupid, just inexperienced. I don't think my DM is going to be overly hard-nosed about "You couldn't think of a plan like that, you have an 8 Int". If anything, I think he'll have a harder time accepting the 18 Chr! I'm notorious in the group for playing characters who have Chr as a dump stat, simply because that is so much fun to play. This is my 1st character in years with a high Chr.
Also, I want to say thanks for creating this guide. I may not agree with every single ranking, but it's good to get fresh perspectives on the class and builds, and it has really done that for me!
I understand why you're not including them, but since there are a lot of choices for oracles in the golarion setting material, I'd like to see a guide that included opinions on them...
New to Pathfinder, I spent a week or two sifting over the Oracle class. When I was done much to my shock the Ancestor Oracle appears to hold the most potential. I start in Friday with Rise of the Rune Lord and this is my choice. Your guide supports my opinion and btw, kudo's for a work of art. You did a fantastic job putting it together.
I do wish you had included feat progression trees. With that, I'm wondering if you have any tips for feat progression, and Revelation progression? 1-20...or if that's too much even 1-7...
I'm going with Fey at level 1...just because.
I took Aasimar\Angelkin.
I'm headed for Eldritch and probably taking Orc.
I think I will pump my class bonus into Spirit Shield, but I'm undecided there but enough ranks makes it 24 hours and at least 27AC.
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I just thought of a possibly great multiclass option: A Magus with a dip into Stone Oracle to get Clobbering Strike. A Magus specializes in using spells through his weapon, and when he does so, the spell gains the weapon's crit rating. The best option is to take a weapon with an 19-20 or 18-20, then take feats and Keen to increase that even further. A 15-20 crit threat isn't uncommon, and when you are casting a shocking grasp or other touch spell every round with your Spell Combat feature, you should have a ton of opportunities to make the Clobbering Strike power useful.
Aasimar Ancestor Oracle at level 20.
Magic vestment + spirit shield + favored class bonus = 32 AC.
That's good, yes? Would anyone rather have worn armor instead?
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Or spirit warrior + favored class bonus = 15 rounds!
Alright! Time to hit everyone's post.
@Redward: Yeah, that's a pretty decent spell but it's still very firmly a buff spell. It does scale nicely, though.
@Kerney: I touched on this ability earlier in these posts (gods help me, I don't know where) but I'm of the opinion that RAI (rules as intended) this should only work as a bridge, not as a wall of force. The rules are slightly unclear, but it is my opinion that allowing a first level caster access to 3+ walls of force per day is unreasonable. If your DM allows it then by all means take it! It's certainly a bright blue ability. Hell, I'd probably make a new rating.
@Samurai: (first post) That's a unique way to explore the 8 int issue, and if your DM & group are cool with it then I wish you a lot of luck. That sounds like a fun character to play. I don't necessarily agree with that interpretation, but this is a game about having fun. :D I'm glad you liked the guide, too. Honestly the whole point was just to offer new perspectives. (second post) That's a really good point! I'll need to look into that a bit further to cross check some rules, but that's brilliant.
@The Golux: Someone may well come along to do just that. As far as I'm aware nobody else has posted anything oracle-specific, but there are a lot of gaps in my guide (and differing opinions). I'd be happy to read over some of the material if you had specific questions on any of it and post it here, but I don't want to add it to the "official" guide.
@Havoq: (first post) Haha, thanks for the praise. As far as feat progession goes, I originally did a few "sample builds" but scrapped them because I thought they encouraged the idea of "one right way to do this" and I REALLY fought that with this guide. As for your character I'd be happy to offer a few suggestions if you like (as I'm sure anyone else would, too). I'm not sure what you mean by Fey, though. Also, how far is your campaign likely to go in level progression? (second post) Getting away from wearing armor is always nice because you always have it and it's much cheaper in the long run. I thoroughly encourage anyone to use the armor revelations if your DM rules you can "enchant" them. Spirit Warrior is pretty sweet, too. Tough decision.
Okay, gotta fly. I'm currently burning dinner.
I just thought of a possibly great multiclass option: A Magus with a dip into Stone Oracle to get Clobbering Strike. A Magus specializes in using spells through his weapon, and when he does so, the spell gains the weapon's crit rating. The best option is to take a weapon with an 19-20 or 18-20, then take feats and Keen to increase that even further. A 15-20 crit threat isn't uncommon, and when you are casting a shocking grasp or other touch spell every round with your Spell Combat feature, you should have a ton of opportunities to make the Clobbering Strike power useful.
I love this idea, and I've added it to the guide in the multiclassing section under the stone mystery. I had to make a few adjustments for clarity and had to change "Spell Combat" to "Spellstrike," but otherwise kept it all the same. Hope you don't mind.
@level 7 take feat Skill Focus: Survival
@level 9 take eldritch heritage [bloodline Orc]
@level 11 take improved eldritch heritage [strength]
@level 13 take improved eldritch heritage [fearless]
@level 17 take greater eldritch heritage [Power of the Giants]
So, here's my concept for the no armor route, but really only once you get into the teens somewhere:
Aasimar Oracle[ancestor] Favored Class Bonus: half oracle level to Spirit Shield.
@L20 that's +16ac. Growing large will put you at 31ac,
And Spirit Shield will last more than 24/hours...always on.
Shield of Faith should get you to 36ac
Weaknesses: this entire build isn't much of anything until level 9.
Sean, I took Fey Founding at level one just get the extra healing.
I'm not really sure if was worth it, but meh - it's done.
Rise of the Runelord: We're going all the way to level 20, then if there is an expansion we'll got to level 30.
Strengths: If your campaign lasts long enough the character should be really strong. I'm thinking you can go a few ways with this build. Go as far as 20CHA then put the rest into CON, and take toughness.
That's over 260 health, or 300 health with Spirit of the Warrior going!
The other option is pump STR for more damage, or if you want to stay super flexible, pump CHA for the more rounds of things based on CHA and a mega save bonus when you use things like Bestow Grace of the Champion.
Now, I'm a total newbie to DnD and Pathfinder but unless I'm missing something this is a pretty stout setup no matter how you go.
By the way - the concept of using Spirit of the Warrior screams River Tam and that sends gleeful chills down my back. Full of Rawr.
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I just thought of a possibly great multiclass option: A Magus with a dip into Stone Oracle to get Clobbering Strike. A Magus specializes in using spells through his weapon, and when he does so, the spell gains the weapon's crit rating. The best option is to take a weapon with an 19-20 or 18-20, then take feats and Keen to increase that even further. A 15-20 crit threat isn't uncommon, and when you are casting a shocking grasp or other touch spell every round with your Spell Combat feature, you should have a ton of opportunities to make the Clobbering Strike power useful.I love this idea, and I've added it to the guide in the multiclassing section under the stone mystery. I had to make a few adjustments for clarity and had to change "Spell Combat" to "Spellstrike," but otherwise kept it all the same. Hope you don't mind.
Great! My mistake on the ability name, sorry.
My Magus just reached 5th level and his black-blade scimitar can now gain the Keen ability for 1 minute per point from his Arcane Pool, giving a 15-20 crit threat. Whenever you see a power that activates when a spell crits, think "made for a Magus" :).
Breaking it up so I can reply more appropriately.
@level 7 take feat Skill Focus: Survival
@level 9 take eldritch heritage [bloodline Orc]
@level 11 take improved eldritch heritage [strength]
@level 13 take improved eldritch heritage [fearless]
@level 17 take greater eldritch heritage [Power of the Giants]
This is a good progression. The orc bloodline is a late bloomer, so putting it off helps.
So, here's my concept for the no armor route, but really only once you get into the teens somewhere:
Aasimar Oracle[ancestor] Favored Class Bonus: half oracle level to Spirit Shield.
@L20 that's +16ac. Growing large will put you at 31ac,
And Spirit Shield will last more than 24/hours...always on.
Shield of Faith should get you to 36acWeaknesses: this entire build isn't much of anything until level 9.
I love the idea of going armorless, but you have to realize that even when you're pumping all your resources into getting Spirit Shield amazing it's going to be less than a non-magical breastplate for a long time. However, after 8th level it's great (8+4 favored class) and essentially half-plate at that point.
Also, the build is a lot more than a single bonus to AC. You're a full caster with gobs of fun tools and the ability to channel your ancestor spirits to kick ass.
Sean, I took Fey Founding at level one just get the extra healing.
I'm not really sure if was worth it, but meh - it's done.
Rise of the Runelord: We're going all the way to level 20, then if there is an expansion we'll got to level 30.
That's a shame, but Fey Foundling won't be hard to capitalize on as an oracle. Just make sure you go the positive energy route.
Strengths: If your campaign lasts long enough the character should be really strong. I'm thinking you can go a few ways with this build. Go as far as 20CHA then put the rest into CON, and take toughness.
That's over 260 health, or 300 health with Spirit of the Warrior going!The other option is pump STR for more damage, or if you want to stay super flexible, pump CHA for the more rounds of things based on CHA and a mega save bonus when you use things like Bestow Grace of the Champion.
Now, I'm a total newbie to DnD and Pathfinder but unless I'm missing something this is a pretty stout setup no matter how you go.
I love the idea of taking CHA to 20, though 18 is probably fine as well. I would NOT recommend taking such a heavy focus on CON though. Something about the D&D/Pathfinder system is that battles are pretty short- usually between 3-7 rounds. This means that as long as you can survive those rounds it's much more important that you be able to contribute to the death/disabling of your enemies than just survive their onslaught. A strong offense is almost always better than a strong defense in D&D. Of course there are some exceptions, but them's the beans.
By the way - the concept of using Spirit of the Warrior screams River Tam and that sends gleeful chills down my back. Full of Rawr.
Enjoy this comic, then: River Tam beats up Everyone
Heheh, funny comic.
Sean, what would you pick at level one instead of Fey Founding? Or maybe a few choices...
And what do you mean by going the positive energy route? I'm brand new to DnD so the obvious stuff isn't to me.
Is there a way take advantage of Robe of Arcane Heritage, in this armorless build?
Lastly, if you had to pick one craft...what might you pick?
Noble Scion for Charisma to initiative :P
I saw that when I was doing research - Noble Scion: Scion of War.
I decided to go a different route.
@Sunbeam: Alright, looks like we've got a bit of a puzzle here. What you're asking is mostly a series of rules and how they interact with each other, so let's look at each rule.
First, Tree Form uses the Plant Shape series, so it's a polymorph spell.
Second, let's look at the relevant wording for the two abilities in question.
Now, with all of that in place, let's answer your questions.
1 & 2) No, both would be made inert with the polymorph spell. However there's nothing stopping you from simply conjuring them again while in Treant form. Your armor lasts hours per day and you've got enough uses of your weapon to conjure once a combat session.
3) This is a tough one that I feel would be up to your DM. It's not explicitly clear if natural weapons are "wielded" or not, but I personally think that they are. At my table I would let it work simply because it makes sense and fits the theme.
So, in conclusion, your idea is legal IF you do it in the right order (tree form > conjure equipment).
@Havoq: Never underestimate how utterly powerful it is to go first. Bonuses to your initiative can win a match simply because you were able to go before a powerful enemy did. Personally? I don't play characters who don't have Improved Initiative. Noble Scion (War), as Azelyan said, is utterly fantastic and stacks with Improved Initiative. I'd take both if it were allowed, but the Noble Scion feat does have some RP stigma that I'd personally avoid.
Extend Spell - Double duration for +1 spell level is really worth it. You can do some tricky things with this metamagic feat.
Examples?
A note about Reincarnated Samsaran Oracles - one of the benefits of Location Memories is gaining low light vision - but note that Samsarans already have low light vision.
I'm working on a Rage Prophet guide drawing heavily on your guide as a way to check my work on the Oracle pieces of the Rage Prophet puzzle. I'll post when it's done and I'd love to get your feedback.
Extend Spell - Double duration for +1 spell level is really worth it. You can do some tricky things with this metamagic feat.Examples?
Sometimes it's a simple as having a spell last two days instead of one, thus saving room for other spells the next day. Spells like Ant Haul, Magic Weapon/Vestment, and Endure Elements are a great example. Now sure, you may be thinking "if you're only casting it once every other day it's not a very good spell," which is a good point- unless you're casting it on multiple party members. Then you're getting great benefits for only half the cost for the whole group.
Other times it's using a spell that's mediocre because of its duration and effectively doubling it to produce a much more powerful spell. Examples here include Command, Forbid Action, etc.
Sorry, I had a few more examples earlier but I just got off work and my brain is stupid. I'll try to post a couple more if I remember.
Right, that's okay - but if you think of anything I'd love to hear it.
Here is what I was thinking now:
Oracle[ancestor]
Aasismar and all of that goodness
Traits:
Magical Lineage: Heal
Adopted: Unbreakable Hate, +2 concetration.
Feats:
1. Combat Casting, +4 more concetration.
3. Power Attack
5. Reach Spell
7. Skill Focus[Survival]
9. Eldritch Heritage[Orc]
11. Improved Eldritch Heritage[Strength of the Beast]
13. Improved Eldritch Heritage[Fearless]
15. Greater Eldritch Heritage[Power of Giants]
17. Spontaneous Metafocus[Heal] <--- meh, maybe
19. ...something.
Tactics:
Heal is the goto spell when things go South. Fight in melee, but with Unbreakable Hate/Combat Casting you're +6 concetration. Pure Oracle so you keep your caster levels. Put your favored class bonus into Spirit Shield and you're over 40ac....with all your powers up.
Traits:
Magical Lineage: Heal
Adopted: Unbreakable Hate, +2 concetration.
I'm assuming that Magical Lineage (Heal) is to be used in conjunction with Reach Spell. It's a neat idea, but Reach Spell isn't great for spontaneous casters. Since using metamagic increases the casting time to a full-round action it's about even with just using your move action to make the touch.
I can't find Unbreakable Hate, but if it's just a flavorful +2 concentration I fully approve.
Feats:
1. Combat Casting, +4 more concetration.
3. Power Attack
5. Reach Spell
You may be overestimating concentration checks, but then again you might not be. Charisma won't be a truly "primary" stat for you so this is probably a good choice. I'd probably put Power Attack off to 5th level- you're not likely to use it much before then since everything is fairly easy to kill.
Reach Spell should probably be reconsidered (in my opinion) for the reasons I posted above. For a battle oracle I'd actually recommend Quicken Spell or Extend Spell. You'll be using a LOT of buffs over the course of your career, and each of these allow you to do something else with your actions.
7. Skill Focus[Survival]
9. Eldritch Heritage[Orc]
11. Improved Eldritch Heritage[Strength of the Beast]
13. Improved Eldritch Heritage[Fearless]
15. Greater Eldritch Heritage[Power of Giants]
Fearless really doesn't seem worthwhile to me. It's +2 natural armor which feels mediocre at best, especially when you're well into the teens. Why not replace it with Heavy Armor Proficiency? It's a net gain of +3 AC at the expense of a bonus vs. fear effects (which can totally be covered by your spells). Also, Greater Eldritch Heritage isn't available until level 17, but I like the ability and encourage you to take it.
17. Spontaneous Metafocus[Heal] <--- meh, maybe
19. ...something.
Spontaneous Metafocus (Heal) does make your choice of Magical Lineage & Reach Spell much more palpable, but keep in mind- you're literally one level away from Mass Heal, which is a much better "oh s**t" button than a Reach Heal. This is especially true when you likely won't even have to be casting heal very often in combat. Yes, it's great when you get it, but you're still spending your whole turn casting a spell to save an ally- so it better be the best possible action.
Don't get me wrong- Heal is a great spell, but perhaps there are other ways to recover when things go south. Wall of Stone, Calm Emotions, Stone Shape, Air Walk (Communal). They're all available sooner than Heal, and all very good at turning the tide.
Tactics:
Heal is the goto spell when things go South. Fight in melee, but with Unbreakable Hate/Combat Casting you're +6 concetration. Pure Oracle so you keep your caster levels. Put your favored class bonus into Spirit Shield and you're over 40ac....with all your powers up.
It sounds like you've got a good idea as to the type of character you're looking to play. I'd recommend taking a look at the Step Up line of feats- you're really built to take advantage of them.
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I would like to request a look-see. This will be my first oracle and I would like to make sure I'm not walking into any traps. This is for a Very undead heavy, high level (starting 21st) campaign with a brutal GM who has a nearly encyclopedic knowledge of pathfinder. Any survival/spell advise is appreciated.
Dual Cursed (Deaf/Haunted, deaf advancing) Aasimar Oracle (Life) 18, Paladin 2, Holy Vindicator 1
Traits: Magical Knack, ??
Stats: 14, 16, 16, 14, 14, 20 (Rolled, lucky me)
With equipment and lvls my cha will be near 40 and my dex/con at 22
Favored class into Channel Revelation for 15d6 base, 17d6 w/phylactary
Feats:
1. Fey Foundling
3. Selective Channel
5. Alignment channel
7. Reach spell (?)
9. Quick Channel
11. Toughness
13. Point blank shot
15. Precise shot
17. Quicken spell
19??
21??
With paladin bonus my saves are 38/35/47 and my 17 channel dice to AC with the Vindicator's shield active mt AC is in the mid 60's. My worry is it only lasts until I'm hit.
Spells: [x]= from class features
1-[ Ill omen, CLW] prot. Evil, divine favor, command, bless, hide from undead
2- [oracle's burden, cure moderate] sound burst, consecrate, shatter, shield other, Glitterdust
3- [bestow curse, cure serious] Dispell magic, ??? Need help here
4- [Restoration, Cure critical] holy smite, air walk, Death ward, oracle's vessel
5- [breath of life] mass cure light, wall of stone, fickle winds, true seeing, undeath ward
6- [heal] Animate Objects, Dispell (greater), Geas/Quest
7- [restoration(greater)] Repulsion, Destruction, Holy Word
8- [mass heal] Discern Location, Summon Monster VIII
9- [true res. ] Miracle
Any advise here would be wonderful as I just picked what looked good out of the PFSRD.
Also, if this was inappropriate of me please slap my wrist and I'll go post it in its own thread or something. I just thought I would get better quality feedback here.
Sean,
I love your insight. Clevet stuff.
Fearless is kind of meh, isn't it. I guess it was a means to an end...upping the AC by any means possible.
But here's why I'm avoiding Heavy Amor:
Spirit Shield, using favored class to boost
1, 15ac
7, 17ac
8, 19ac
10, 21ac
13, 23ac
16, 25ac
18, 27ac and it lasts over 24/hours a day
Spend 35,500 for +5 Full Mith Plate and you're 25ac...and slowed.
At level 8 I'd say it's viable. Until then and until the duration is viable wear chain or whatever. But if you wait it out...sure seems like it's better than FMP.
Am I missing a trick? Sure seems like Spirit Shield is better in the long run if you add in the favored class boost.
Nice catch on Greater Eldritch Heritage isn't available until level 17.
That's maddening. Power of Giants is available at 15th, but the Feat that allows you take it isn't available until 17th? That I don't get.
I don't know what to do abut Heal/Mass Heal. Your points are well taken. I'd love hear a better way to allign those traits and feats if you have one. A more efficient way of placing them. My plan is fine, but I'm sure you're right about it not being efficient. ...but I wanted a clever us of Magical Lineage and that was my plan.
You're probably right about taking too much +concentration. I just waned to get my defensive heals off when I absolutely needed to.