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I greatly appreciate the guides. The minutiae of each and every class factoring in every archetype, race option and possible combination is almost paralyzation by analyzation for me.
I sometimes miss the simplicity of the old classes and "rp'ing" the flavor instead of having it made for you as an archetype ... etc.
As someone who is deciding among 3 potential classes this guide and other's are priceless to me.
Thanks for the good work.
Considering the one star ranking to Searing Light. I disagree that it is that low because the benefit of the spell swings upwards vs. undead. 1d8/level(10d8 max) that doesn't get a save to reduce damage is respectable and being able to throw 3 or so(assume after buffs) is a good way to shave off the HP of any undead, especially flyers.
@Amric: Thanks for the kind words, bud. :)
@Andrea1: It's only going to be 1d8/level if they're vulnerable to sunlight, which surprisingly few undead are. On the whole it's going to be 5d8 at 10th level for most enemies (avg. 22.5 damage) and a staggering 10d6 (avg. 35 damage) versus most undead. That's horrible on normal stuff and mediocre at best on the undead. I can see a few hedge cases where this might be better, like in undead-heavy campaigns, but on the whole I really feel like it's a red spell.
Hey all. Need some advice on a nature oracle for PFS. I am going to be playing a grippli on a giant frog (go go gadget GenCon boons). My conundrum is whether to go Cavalier 1/Nature oracle 11 or to try and roll up a mounted rage prophet. Any advice would be awesome, especially in regards to the rage prophet concept.
Possible update! Have you seen Kobolds of Golarion?
It gave Kobolds a great divine caster option: the Scaled Disciple feat. Basically, they can use spontaneous divine classes as sorcerer levels for the purpose of upgrading to Dragon Disciple.
And well, everything else. I love kobolds.
EDIT: Also, dhampirs, tieflings and aasimars all have various heritages, each one with a different stat layout. Some are better at certain classes than others, so perhaps you could look into this?
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Looked at the new updated version of this and came to the conclusion that this is the best class guide out there (Thought of doing a summoner one because that class need some love btw) out of any class guide.
Few things--
I also noticed that the halfling's alternate race trait Fleet of Foot basically negates the Lame Curse.
Noted that you empathize Strength for an spellcaster. I'm not sure more than a 12 is needed for encumbrance. On the other hand a 14 in con or dex might be more useful.
Finally, Ive noticed some players have hard time getting their mind around the Oracle class and just get hung up on the name.
So, would you consider a section on roleplaying oracles. I think a lot of people get hung up on the name 'Oracle' and think Delphi or the Spartan Oracles in 300 when the text of the class seems to be pointing to something broader, i.e. people who seem to have a perhaps unwilling encounter with the divine (however you define it) that seemed to reshape their lives and give them mission or insight. Pointing some historical/legendary figures who might be good examples of oracles might be a good place to start, for example--
Tiresias--having your gender changed twice and then blinded and gifted with prophecy seems to fit the bill.
Odin--Forget he's a god for a moment. Hanging yourself by the worldtree, losing an eye, literally sacrifice 'myself to myself' to gain knowledge seems to fit.
Blues Brothers--Jake and Elwood are duel class bards, but they work.
Moses-- Cool homebrew stutter curse, having a diety giving him a mission when he was minding his business looking for lost sheep.
Joan of Arc--Wrong gender curse and a badass battle oracle.
Francis of Assisi-- Mystic extrodinare (perhaps haunted curse?) which drove him away from becoming a merchant like his father and toward becoming a first class nature oracle.
One thing that might be controversial as I say this. When I have talked about what an Oracle is, getting into a few arguments, I've noticed those most involved w/ real world organized religion seem to have the hardest time getting their heads around this class. This is simply my observation and I don't blame anyone for not touching this with an 11 foot pole, but I wonder if anyone else has had experiences with people who have a hard time getting their head around this class?
Excellent guide!
For Part 3: Multiclass Options - 2nd Level of Paladin is really strong because of Divine Grace. Add your already strong Cha mod to all of your saving throws. Who wouldn't take a second level if they had already grabbed the first with this huge buff?
Before posting I searched the threads to see if anyone brought this up.
One thing that might be controversial as I say this. When I have talked about what an Oracle is, getting into a few arguments, I've noticed those most involved w/...
It depends on the religious background. The more systematic and academic (scholarly) the religious background the harder it is to grasp concepts such as mystery or mystical. Religious backgrounds that openly accept the unknown should be better able to handle such concepts -- specifically Taoism, Eastern Orthodox Christianity, Hasidic Judaism and some branches of Buddhism.
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One thing that might be controversial as I say this. When I have talked about what an Oracle is, getting into a few arguments, I've noticed those most involved w/...It depends on the religious background. The more systematic and academic (scholarly) the religious background the harder it is to grasp concepts such as mystery or mystical. Religious backgrounds that openly accept the unknown should be better able to handle such concepts -- specifically Taoism, Eastern Orthodox Christianity, Hasidic Judaism and some branches of Buddhism.
I'd add Norse and Celtic Paganism, African derived faiths such as Santaria and Voudon, Shinto, most Native American belief systems, some strains of Roman Catholicism and Hinduism.
I heard somewhere that Wrecker is awesome, due to the fact that at higher levels you can basically poke a wall and it'll collapse. Sundering!
I'd add Norse and Celtic Paganism, African derived faiths such as Santaria and Voudon, Shinto, most Native American belief systems, some strains of Roman Catholicism and Hinduism.
Yup. Good includes. The key element is the acceptance of the unknown - whether that is called mystical or magical or a mystery doesn't really matter. Our society tends to be very scholastic and we want to know everything about anything and give it a name. Some people (and religions) have the ability to simply accept that they don't know everything... those are the types who will have an easier time with role playing (instead of roll playing) an oracle.
FYI.. I liked your examples of possible oracle types, from Tiresias to Francis of Assisi... all good examples.
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Any chance of bringing up the other curses? Wolfscarred, burnt, legalistic, etc?
Also I'd mention the arcane bond with imp familiar to get telepathy pseudodragon to bypass the deaf penalties roughly =D
After a quick check of them...
Wolfscarred is horrible, may be the worst curse. A natural attack is not worth spell failure.
Blackened has no real penalty if you aren't planing on using weapons, but it adds spells that for the most part aren't very good (Wall of Fire and Scortching Ray are pretty cool though).
Consumed is probably the only thing that can rival Wolfscarred in awfulness. In exchange for 1.5 times damage taken, you can... go without food and water at a level you can just cast Create Food and Water at and have an ability that lets you gain ONE, uno, 一, ein, singular temporary hitpoint per activation at level 15 (If you don't remember, that's an orison level effect).
Legalistic is... OK. The penalty never comes up if you never give your word, which is not hard if you think a bit (Say "I'll see what I can do" over "I'll do it".) and it might never come up at all in some types of campaigns, but aside from the first benefit (+3 on social skills... yum), none of the benefits are really good. Good option for someone who doesn't want a curse I guess.
Wrecker is awful. Till the level 15 boon, the benefits only counteract the penalties it gives you (you do more damage against inanimate objects, you still take the penalty on damage rolls from the broken condition), not really giving you anything. The broken condition cripples ANY playstyle (it doubles the charges used on magic items)
So yeah, two curses which have very minor penalties and boosts, and 3 that are horrible options I have no idea what the author was thinking.
Hell, even if you are TRYING to gimp yourself (most likely because you are better at optimization or something) the 3 are awful.
With Wrecker, most wand spells are to the benefit of the group more than you and cuts into the groups...
And yet you're soo silly you overlooked one amazing thing about wolf scared, Dual cursed. You pick up deaf as your primary and wolfscared as your secondary. Voila, no verbal components to any spell you cast period... oh and now you get the sexy misfortune revelation... You're analysis is so flawed.
Wrecker is not as bad as you think either, you need to read up the FAQs. Because of it, wrecker is for the type that aren't going to melee it up.
Consumed is again not as bad as you think, the lvl 15 ability you are bemoaning can net you a consistant 1-8temp hp a round. The extra NON-LETHAL damage you take isn't always an issue considering whenever you heal physical damage, you heal and equal amount of non-lethal. So yeah, you got hit for 40 and took 20 non-lethal... you heal yourself for 20 and now you're sitting at just 20hp of dmg. If you're going blaster focused or healing focused it's not a bad curse.
Touch of the Moon is OK for turning Mass Inflict Light Wounds into a late access Confusion with a bit of damage and a (for the most part) better area. It's terrible for Cure (you pay twice the spellslots for it?).
Temp HP are nice though and it doesn't require learning any new spells.
Generally speaking, this mystery really feels like it can be a spontaneous Druid.
Is it me, or do the links in the Oracle Guide no longer function?
I remember that I could click on the link on the first page to get to the second or third document, but some of the layout seems to have gone missing...
Is it me, or do the links in the Oracle Guide no longer function?
I remember that I could click on the link on the first page to get to the second or third document, but some of the layout seems to have gone missing...Same here. All the formatting for part 1 is completely gone - no bold text or links. Part 2 still has the formatting though.
Hope it gets fixed.
Thanks for that link. Since the links to parts 2 and 3 in part 1 didn't work anymore, I lost my access to those two, as well. I only added part 1 to my favorites...
Now I can, at least, reach those other parts (and add them to my shortcuts, so this won't happen to me again).
Hey gang,
I've been out of the game for the better part of this year. Life took a couple awkward turns and I just haven't had time to focus on the guide or pathfinder community at large.
I saw a comment by Kroisos noting that the formatting had been stripped out of the guide so I pulled it up and yes, in fact, it had. The change was noted as being done by "anonymous" and happened late December. I'm not really sure what happened since nobody else has editing permissions on the guide, but whatever. I restored a previous version and it's back to where it should be. I don't believe any data was lost.
Like I said, I've been out of the game for nearly a year now. I haven't been following updates to Pathfinder and I don't really feel qualified continuing the guide or offering advice. The guide is and always has been both a product of the community and owned by the community, with me acting as a filter and editor. If anyone wants to expand/revamp/take over the guide just hit me up and we can chat about passing over the document.
Otherwise it'll remain public and available to whoeever wants to use it. As of now I won't be continuing production of the guide. The last time I reviewed the content of the game was February 2013, so it's fairly accurate to that point. At least, as much as an opinion piece can be.
I saw a comment by Kroisos noting that the formatting had been stripped out of the guide so I pulled it up and yes, in fact, it had. The change was noted as being done by "anonymous" and happened late December. I'm not really sure what happened since nobody else has editing permissions on the guide, but whatever. I restored a previous version and it's back to where it should be. I don't believe any data was lost.
Thanks for that! I never made a copy for myself, relying on the online version... Good to see it back.
Like I said, I've been out of the game for nearly a year now. I haven't been following updates to Pathfinder and I don't really feel qualified continuing the guide or offering advice. The guide is and always has been both a product of the community and owned by the community, [...] it'll remain public and available to whoeever wants to use it. As of now I won't be continuing production of the guide. The last time I reviewed the content of the game was February 2013, so it's fairly accurate to that point. At least, as much as an opinion piece can be.
Thanks for your efforts so far. It's much appreciated! Hope you'll find a successor soon...
And no, I'm not volunteering. I have embarked on an even bigger project years ago, and just like you, in the end I told the community that someone else should feel free to take over. Luckily I found someone soon.
If you're wondering what project I am talking about: I was the collector and editor of the Great Net Spellbook and Prayerbook for about ten years (D&D net accessory).
Wood - Tree Shape - Aasimar or Elf can be plant shaping, with +2 str/con/AC, into a Mandragora at level 6. That's 3 attacks with 1 grab and 2 poison. Plus you can still speak common.
At level 8 you could be, with +4 str/AC & +2 Con, a Vine Viper - bite + 4 tentacles grab/constrict, Or a Alraune with 4 vines with grab/constrict and speak common.
That's not Red surely?
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Wood - Tree Shape - Aasimar or Elf can be plant shaping, with +2 str/con/AC, into a Mandragora at level 6. That's 3 attacks with 1 grab and 2 poison. Plus you can still speak common.
At level 8 you could be, with +4 str/AC & +2 Con, a Vine Viper - bite + 4 tentacles grab/constrict, Or a Alraune with 4 vines with grab/constrict and speak common.That's not Red surely?
It's much better now than it was when written. Bestiary 3 & 4 have added some great Plant forms to assume, and Plant Shape has some great defensive abilities including regeneration.
Wrecker Curse
Coupled with Nature Mystery's Erosion touch makes for an interesting combination.
lvl 5 reduce Hardness of objects you attack by 1 HD per oracle level.
Erosion touch, as a melee attack, can damage objects for 1d6/2 oracle levels.
So a 6th level oracle, could sunder wooden doors in a single attack because it drops the wood HD by 6 and deals 6d6 damage to. Which at sixth level you can use this ability 3 times a day.
Most regular armor is HD 5-10 and HP 5 - Armor Bonus X5 hp, weapons are going to be between 5-10 HD and hp between 2-20.
You can reduce armor/weapons to broken or destroyed condition in a single round.
If you have nature attacks and improved sunder you can perform Multiple attacks at maximum attack bonus and commit to multiple sunder actions which would quickly stack damage on your enemies gear.
Also Wrecker curse only affects things you hold or touch, it doesn't affect worn armor or shields that don't require you to hold to obtain their bonuses.
Lots of potential for interesting combos and not just with Oracle.
Anyone have any views on the new Solar mystery from Harrow Handbook?
Dimension Door as bonus spell known at level 8. The revelations look fun from Astral Caravan, Astral plane version of shadow walk, and Sun Stride, bright light version of shadowdancer's shadow jump ability.
My valkyrie run with the mix of Haunted and Time mystery. The time powers are quite fun, but the spelsl you get from the time mystery isnt really that interesting before 12th level.
There isnt that many to-hit boosting spells around tho, but i think i picked up the most important ones so early ( using potions for bull's strenght )
Bless +1, Divine Favor +3, and Channel Vigor for ranged or Hasted, and i use the kobold 3rd party feat for some touch shenanigans.
Any other spells that help on the to-hit rate? except for Divine power or Aid that is.
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Hey gang, Sean again.
So we're inching up on two years since the guide has been updated and there's some new content out for the class. I've been thinking it over and I've decided to take up the mantle and start writing for the guide again.
Expect things to be a bit slow going at first. I'll need to get acquainted with the new material, and I'm very open to hearing from the community about new (and old) options.
The guide will of course maintain it's original focus and will only include books from the "loose core." Anything third party or campaign specific will be excluded. This means I won't be covering any of the revisited series or the player companion series. I'm happy to discuss any of this and of course encourage discussion of these prereferral materials, but they won't be in the guide proper.
So what does all of this mean? Basically, I'm going to be adding the following books:
- Mythic Adventures
- Advanced Class Guide
- Ultimate Equipment
I'll also dig through the Gamemastery Guide and Ultimate Campaign again to see if there's anything in those that can be added, but if I recall there's nothing. With Ultimate Equipment I'm only going to add the stuff that specifically affects the oracle. I don't want to clutter the guide. I wanted to add an equipment section the first time I wrote it, but it got very complicated. Expect something with broad strokes.
I'll post updates in this thread when new sections are complete since I usually just edit the Google document directly. Hopefully this will help alleviate some of the confusion between quick edits and entire updates.
Not sure anyone really even uses this anymore but I'm excited to be back on the project. Looking forward to responses from the community.
Until then, I'll be buried in a source book.
-Sean
dont forget Lunar, Solar and Winter Oracle Mysteries!
(not covering player companions, sad face)
I've actually been mulling this over. I don't like the idea of adding things from outside the "Loose Core," but I'm going to make an exception for the different mysteries. My first thought was to give them each a tiny blurb with some basic advice, but then I remembered how wordy I am. So instead they'll receive their own section and will be clearly labeled with their sources. This will be the only part of the guide that clearly steps away from the "Loose Core." I won't be adding any of the other material from the books though.
I feel that this is a good compromise.
Look, this is strictly my opinion, but I think you shouldn't try to incorporate Mythic Adventures material.
This stuff is way broken as a survey of the Wrath of the Righteous threads will indicate.
And my take as a player, is that to actually cover just how it interacts with Oracles is an effort bigger than you have done with this guide, even if you use this one as a base.
My 2 cents. Plus my impression is almost no one is playing with Mythic Rules, except maybe as a cherry picked ad hoc inclusion by the dm. And PFS doesn't use it at all.
Seriously take a look at Mythic Adventures. We haven't even scratched the surface of all the broken stuff you can do with it, because it isn't even popular with min/maxers.
Anyway if you do include it, good luck. I think you have a big task in front of you.
I imagine that you're probably right. It's one of the newer books that I haven't had a chance to read yet, but I do keep seeing a lot of generally negative stuff about it. I'm going to dig through it none-the-less, but if it stands very separate from the rest of the guide I'll exclude it. Especially since I skipped Words of Power.
I've been using this guide for my negitive dex character challenge
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The Lunar Oracle brings with it a number of really interesting options. Bad touch of the moon is especially hideous as soon as you start dropping mass inflict light wounds forcing max DC will saves to avoid being confused for 5 rounds against multiple enemies. It isn't even mind affecting so can affect plants and oozes.
The ACG brings three very strong Oracle options, two feats and an archetype.
Divine Protection is crazily broken for the Oracle and it is no surprise it was pre-emptively banned in PFS before the book actually hit the shelves. It is the default choice of feat at level 5 for any full Oracle anywhere and you will see a lot of people dipping a level or Cleric, Oracle or Warpriest to get it.
Battle Cry is another interesting feat for any high Charisma character. Its a swift action you can use a number of times per day equal to your Cha mod. All allies in 30' gain a +1 morale bonus on attacks so it is like a free Bless along with a +4 morale bonus on saves against fear which is OK. However, they can also end the effect on themselves to reroll a save which they have failed. Rerolls are always strong but most require you to decide whether or not to use it before knowing the outcome. This one is used after you have rolled when you also know very clearly what the effect is. I would be seriously tempted to take this on any Oracle.
Finally we have the Spirit Guide archetype which is amazing. You get a wandering lore spirit choice from the Shaman class every day. There are 9 of them and you initially get a single hex, at 4th you start getting their spells and then at 7th and up you start getting the spirit abilities. Most of the spirit abilities are fairly weak but there are a number of excellent hexes. Confusion Curse from Lore is an EX non mind affecting confusion effect. Enveloping Void can drop people into supernatural darkness. Fearful Gaze can frighten or panic. The real strength however is the spells. Each day you get to switch your choice of spirit. With 9 to choose...
I spent some time studying the Spirit Guide Archetype, and I truly fell in love with it for my Oradin. At the cost of the "meh" class skills that came with Life Oracles (all of which I had from my Paladin levels already) I got all knowledge skills, and the spell flexibility of being able to choose spells from each of the nine mysteries.
The nature spirit gives an erosion hex that works great on Season 6 constructs. The heavens spirit has a free teleport. The wind spirit -- or the waves spirit (i'd have to look it up) -- give you the ability to see through fogs and mists, allowing you to use obscuring mist really effectively. The flame spirit gives you a hex to make enemies vulnerable to flame. There's so much flexibility here it is simply wonderful. Lots to play with!
Hmm
PS The changes that you put in already to your guide are great, Sean!
When do you think the section on the Solar Mystery from The Harrowed Handbook will be finished? i am currently about to start a game of Rise of the Runelords and was hoping this guide could offer advice but up until recently it has been woefully unupdated...
I am glad that you'll be covering the lunar oracle. It is my favorite of the oracles, with several revelations that I consider pure blue. I'm glad that you will be revising your awesome guide. Will you be needing any help with the guide? Let me know if you need me to pitch in.
Hmm
I actually finished writing the Lunar section on Saturday. I haven't posted the official "update" in the thread because I'm still working through the different Mysteries though. As for helping I'm always checking this thread and listening to community input. If you've got some opinions on the class I'd love to hear it.
The Lunar Oracle brings with it a number of really interesting options. Bad touch of the moon is especially hideous as soon as you start dropping mass inflict light wounds forcing max DC will saves to avoid being confused for 5 rounds against multiple enemies. It isn't even mind affecting so can affect plants and oozes.
I touched on that in the guide, and I agree, it's stupidly powerful. It is subject to all the limitations of the confusion spell, however, which means that anything immune to compulsions or mind-affecting spells won't be affected. The wording specifically states "confusion, as the spell." It'd be unreasonably powerful otherwise.
@Andreww & Hmm: I haven't had a chance to really dig through the new books yet, but with what you two are saying I'm really interested.
When do you think the section on the Solar Mystery from The Harrowed Handbook will be finished? i am currently about to start a game of Rise of the Runelords and was hoping this guide could offer advice but up until recently it has been woefully unupdated...
I've been working on the guide while at the office since my homelife is particularly hectic. Solar is next on the list, so you can expect it to be completed on either Tuesday or Wednesday.
Once I'm done with all the new mysteries and archetypes I'll post an official update. As it stands I'm halfway done with the mysteries and I've already wrapped up the curses.