Anyone want a paladin guide?


Advice


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I was going to do one on the bard but I lost a fair bit of steam. I only see paladin players around occasionally and figured I'd ask if a new paladin guide would be useful.


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I would like to see one. Made a paladin main character in The Kingmaker PC game and that made want to try a paladin in tabletop too.


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Sure, I'd be all for a new Paladin guide! :D


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I'd read a Paladin guide.

There were a couple around, but from memory they were pretty out of date. An updated guide would be appreciated if you have the time and inclination =)


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens Subscriber

Paladin is my favourite class, an updated guide would be great.

Silver Crusade

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Would love to help you out on that guide. I know a fair bit about the paladin. Played several. And despite what many people say, the primary paladin stat is charisma 95% of the time ;)


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Well I guess im working on a paladin/antipaladin guide next


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There is a paladin in about ... 9 out of 10 games that I play/run. They are my wife's favorite class. I'd love to see another perspective on them.


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So actually things brings up something fun. Usually what I do with guides is that I put up a 90% finished first draft, and then let people rip it to shreds.

This time, I wonder would anyone be interested in me instead just sorta starting with an outline and throwing information at me as I go along?


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An up to date Paladin guide could be useful.

I would like to see a Paladin guide that includes a chapter on which deities work best with Paladins for Deific Obedience/Diverse Obedience... or Celestial Obedience (for those LG Empryreal Lords). I feel that these feats are very fitting for the Paladin class, thematically. And some, potentially, offer substantial mechanical benefits a Paladin may find useful. There are only so many LG deities, and not all of them offer fully fleshed out Obedience boons... having the ones that do offer boons ranked with the typical guide color coding or number of stars would be nice. Me-thinks.

Silver Crusade

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Ragathiel is one of the best for the deific obedience IIRC.

I'd also love to see some more unorthodox multiclass listings. One of my new favorites is a paladin/Gunslinger (mysterious stranger) or the more spell/support focused paladins. As at later levels they can often get more channels per day than clerics.


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Speaking of multiclassing... I know Paladins do not come standard with an abundance of feats, so giving up half of them for Variant MultiClassing may not seem immediately inviting. But there are some relatively decent options.

VMC Cleric gives you spontaneous casting for cure spells. Nice. A separate pool of Channel. And some Domain stuffs. Can be quite thematic, as well.

VMC Sorcerer offers a wide range of Bloodline options and can be either powerful or thematic as you want it to be. The Charisma-based powers seem to mesh well with the Paladin chassis.

VMC Oracle is very similar to Sorcerer in how it plays out, but offers a completely different flavor with the Curse vs Bloodline.

VMC Barbarian, especially on the Tortured Crusader archetype, can be pretty fun... get Rage at level 3, and choose the Fatigued Mercy... a Flawed Scarlet/Green Cabochon Ioun Stone and Extra Rage Power at level 17 for Internal Fortitude effectively gives you Tireless Rage at the same time a "real" Barbarian gets theirs.


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I would definitely read a new Antipaladin guide


Played and seen played a few different Paladins, be happy to comment.


That could be useful.


Antipaladin wise, assuming that LE Antipaladins are allowed, Eiseth offers an incredibly reasonable (just sharpen your weapon) and easy to achieve deific obedience and some pretty cool boons and is probably the Archdevil Equivalent who is least likely to create a toxic work enviroment to a high performing player character.

I once had a lot of fun in a party with both a Paladin and an Antipaladin of Asmodeus (Paladins of Asmodeus are technically a thing :) ). Included with Phoenix Wright Ace attorney style legal battles.


VoodistMonk wrote:
VMC

If you do have houserules for VMCing into Bloodrager, that could actually be a good idea for a Paladin. You get back some feats via bloodline feats, Paladins imho benefit more from bloodrager bloodlines then from sorcerors, generally speaking.

I do however think that the list of classes who would benefit from VMCing into Paladin is longer then the list of classes that Paladin would benefit from VMCing into.


So it turns out that basically all of the other paladin/antipaladin guides are busted or require access...so looks like ill be mainly going into this blind.

On one hand, this is the reason I started writing guides.

On the other hand, man this blows.


Mightypion wrote:
VoodistMonk wrote:
VMC

If you do have houserules for VMCing into Bloodrager, that could actually be a good idea for a Paladin. You get back some feats via bloodline feats, Paladins imho benefit more from bloodrager bloodlines then from sorcerors, generally speaking.

I do however think that the list of classes who would benefit from VMCing into Paladin is longer then the list of classes that Paladin would benefit from VMCing into.

I can think Paladins could benefit from a lot of VMC options, actually.

Throw Cavalier on there, pick up an Order, a Challenge, and Tactician. It all fits the theme, too.


Yes, but divine grace on any class that uses charisma.....


Probably not what you had in mind, but a roleplaying guide for Paladin would be kind of great. I'd enjoy playing the class more often, but the role playing limitations of the class can make it very difficult, especially with certain GMs or player groups.


IluzryMage wrote:

So it turns out that basically all of the other paladin/antipaladin guides are busted or require access...so looks like ill be mainly going into this blind.

On one hand, this is the reason I started writing guides.

On the other hand, man this blows.

Lemme help you out with one of the paladin's best class features. Lay on Hands. Swift action healing and condition removal is extremely potent.

Amount healed:

While you start out with just 1d6/two levels it can be improved quite drastically. The most common way is Fey Foundling which must be taken at level 1 in return for adding +2 HP healed to every dice rolled. This feat alone increases your self-healing by ~60%. Additionally there's a couple FCBs that improve this amount, most notably the Tiefling FCB that increases self-healing by 1 per level.
It's pretty much cliche by now, but a Tiefling Paladin (check their alternate heritages for +Cha) with Fey Foundling heals more than double what a normal paladin does with each use. Rather than 2d6 at level 4 you'd get 2d6+8.

The effective HP gained by this class feature should not be underestimated. A level 4 fighter with 14 Con and their FCB in HP would end up with 40 HP. A Tiefling Paladin sporting 18 Charisma would be able to heal themselves 90 HP each day in addition to their normal HP pool. This, in combination with Divine Grace, is why Paladins have less use for Constitution than most frontliners.

Aim for the Bracers of the Merciful Knight at higher levels.

Uses per day:

They're tied to your Charisma mod and scales with half of your level. There's precious few ways to increase your user per day, but the Meditation Crystal is such a way. As a Channel Foci it is activated by spending a use of Channel Energy. Paladins get this ability at level 4, allowing them to spend two uses of LoH to charge a Meditation Crystal. Now why would you want to spend two uses of LoH to get one use of LoH later? It's precisely because it can be done later. If you spend unused LoH at the end of the day you can "save" half of those uses for tomorrow.
And if you ever get a separate pool of Channel Energy your potential uses of LoH in a day shoots through the roof. The Hospitaler can channel 3+Cha times per day. The previously mentioned 4th level Tiefling Pally would then go from 6 uses per day to 13.

Additionally, no pool of Channel Energy stacks unless explicitly stated. So a dip into Cleric or Oracle would give you even more uses per day. This can be taken advantage of with the Oath of Vengeance to gain a huge amount of smites per day.

Action Economy:

It's a swift action when used on yourself. Which is super. But if you want to heal allies then you want to avoid spending a standard action to do so. I think only the Chosen One archetype quickens this up by allowing your familiar to use LoH.
Another issue with using it on others is that they don't benefit from the investment you've made into it. They won't get the Fey Foundling bonus. This can be solved by the teamwork feat Passing Grace, which you can give out with the Shared Training spell. Then you can heal yourself as a swift action and grant the overheal to adjacent allies.
This wouldn't grant your allies any of the mercies, though.

The Phylactery of the Shepherd would be great for removing conditions from allies if it didn't contend with your Headband of Charisma.

Mercies:

Not much to say except that the Targeted mercy is busted and that you can't remove conditions if you can't act. Getting rid of Dazed, Paralyzed and Stunned won't help you much if you don't have the swift action to heal. Here is where the Chosen One's familiar can really save you. And if you're worried about Nauseated then buy a Corset of Delicate Moves to convert the move action to a swift.

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