Has anyone come up with a Whip Magus that could make it?
Has anyone come up with a Whip Magus that could make it?
1d2 subdual damage= I doubt it.
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well the whip is a complicated weapon to get the best use out of. Particularly since it's specialty is combat manuevers the 3/4 bab magus would have trouble with it.
However, the idea of delivering touch spells at range is intriguing. The idea definately holds some appeal, and since most of a magu's damage is coming from spells and special abilities the relative weakness of the whip (or scorpion whip) isn't as big a deal.
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I didn't think the Whip magus was so hard to build.
Come on, there is :
- Maneuver mastery arcana, to use a combat maneuver with full BAB.
- True Strike with spell combat, for a little +20 to your maneuvre check.
- The bladebound magus, who can choose a "one-handed slashing weapon" as his weapon to hit. The whip is a one-handed slashing weapon.
- The assurance not to be in close range when casting, so no need for the Combat Casting feat.
It seems pretty easy to build, but because it's just not purely focused on direct damage, there is less love for it than for the Dervish dancer.
Has anyone come up with a Whip Magus that could make it?1d2 subdual damage= I doubt it.
Don't forget the Water Whip from the MIC. Super ultimate weapon cheese for a low, low price. Non Lethal or Lethal damage at will, 1D6 base damage, Flaming or Frost as needed, comes back to you on it's own if disarmed, can use it on adjacent targets, can make AoO's.
What is not to like?
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The scorpion whip does 1d4 slashing isn't great damage wise but it is lethal. Their is the transformative ability from the advanced players guide for higher levels then you can carry a more typical weapon that can transform to a whip when wanted. If you ask nicely maybe your DM will allow it to be restricted to whip only to get a better price on the ability.
slightly off topic but I assume the reason your looking at whip is for the reach so you can always do spell combat ?
there's a lovely spell called force hook charge that basically gives you pounce for 1 round.
you cast it get dragged adjacent to you enemy as part of spell combat giving you your full attack, and leaving you adjacent to spell combat next turn.
have multiple force hook charges memorized and your good to go with any weapon.
Other things like Lunge feat can also improve you reach with any weapon allowing spell combat from 10ft.
Has anyone come up with a Whip Magus that could make it?
Take this with a grain of salt, but this is something I was working on for a campaign that started at lvl 7 and we rolled for stats... I rolled crazy well. Unfortunately the campaign didn't happen, so the character isn't polished. This GM let's us start with an extra feat, btw.
He's a support character for the most part. Decent battlefield control w/ the whip, decent debuffing with hexes. Probably not a crazy damage dealer, but it looks like a lot of fun to play.
TORGAR CR 6
Male Half-Orc Magus (Hexcrafter) 7
NG Medium Humanoid (Orc)
Hero Points 1
Init +5; Senses Darkvision (60 feet); Perception +7
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DEFENSE
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AC 23, touch 15, flat-footed 18 (+8 armor, +5 Dex)
hp 71 (7d8+21)
Fort +10, Ref +9, Will +7
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OFFENSE
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Spd 30 ft.
Melee +2 Shock Whip, Scorpion +12 (1d4+6/20/x2) and
Unarmed Strike +10 (1d3+4/20/x2)
Ranged +1 Longbow, Composite (Str +5) +9 (1d8+5/20/x3)
Special Attacks Arcane Accuracy +5, Evil Eye (DC 18), Spellstrike
Spell-Like Abilities Feather Fall (At will), Fly (7 minutes/day), Levitate (1/day)
Magus (Hexcrafter) Spells Known (CL 7, 9 melee touch, 10 ranged touch):
3 (2/day) Haste (DC 18), Stinking Cloud (DC 18)
2 (4/day) Stone Call, Web (DC 17), Scorching Ray, Invisibility
1 (6/day) Shocking Grasp, Floating Disk, Shield, Ray of Enfeeblement (DC 16), Expeditious Retreat,
Mount
0 (at will) Read Magic, Detect Magic, Mage Hand, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation (DC 15)
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STATISTICS
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Str 18, Dex 18/20, Con 14/16, Int 18/20, Wis 10, Cha 10
Base Atk +5; CMB +9 (+18 Tripping); CMD 24 (28 vs. Trip)
Feats Combat Expertise +/-2, Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Whip, Extra Arcana, Fury’s Fall, Improved Trip,
Serpent Lash, Weapon Finesse
Traits Bandit (River Kingdoms): Stealth, Prehensile Whip
Skills Acrobatics +4, Climb +10, Escape Artist +4, Fly +14, Intimidate +6, Knowledge: Arcana +9,
Knowledge: Dungeoneering +9, Knowledge: The Planes +9, Perception +7, Ride +10, Spellcraft +9, Stealth
+15, Swim +12, Use Magic Device +10
Languages Abyssal, Common, Draconic, Giant, Gnoll, Goblin, Orc
SQ Arcane Pool (+2) (8/day) (Su), Hero Points (1), Knowledge Pool (Su), Spell Combat (Ex)
Combat Gear +1 Longbow, Composite (Str +5), +2 Mithral Breastplate, +2 Shock Whip, Scorpion; Other
Gear Belt of Physical Might, DEX & CON +2, Cloak of Resistance, +2, Headband of Vast Intelligence, +2:
Perception
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SPECIAL ABILITIES
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Arcane Accuracy +5 (Su) 1 Arcane Pool: +5 to attack rolls until the end of your turn.
Arcane Pool (+2) (8/day) (Su) At 1st level, the magus gains a reservoir of mystical arcane energy that
he can draw upon to fuel his powers and enhance his weapon. This arcane pool has a number of points
equal to 1/2 his magus level (minimum 1) + his Intelligence modifier.
Bandit (River Kingdoms): Stealth +1 to Stealth checks, Stealth is always a class skill for you.
Combat Expertise +/-2 Bonus to AC in exchange for an equal penalty to attack.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Evil Eye -2 (8 round(s)) (DC 18) (Su) Inflict penalties with a glance.
I think a whip magus is very viable as a character build. While I haven't had the chance to play one yet, I've been thinking it over. Using a scorpion whip, you can deal lethal damage; the d4 damage kinda sucks, but really, when compared to a scimitar, it comes out as an average of 1 point less of damage, which isn't that bad. Besides, the real damage comes from adding thinks like shocking or flaming to your whip.
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Ah the whip, or more accurately the Scorpion Whip. Personally one of my more favorite weapons. It can be rather a nasty shock for any humanoid single foe. While it has low damage dice, as any good Fighter knows the die can be less improtant then how you pack on the bonuses.
A few notes about Whips and the Scorpion whip in the rules:
1) You do get your strengh bonus to damage, it is a melee weapon.
2) It is a One-handed Melee weapon not Light, you can use it in two hands for 1.5 Str Bonus or for Power Attack.
3) High Dex not always required for good whip use, actually higher Str is better if you want to do maneuvers with it anyways.
4) A Scorpion Whip (Adventures armory, inner sea guide) does lethal damage even to people in armor.
Here is a fluffy trick to do at low levels. Spell combat taking a Disarm as one of your attacks and cast Mage Hand to "pull" the dropped weapon (5 lb or less) to you or into reach of another party member.
Armor spikes are your friend, as they are of all people who use reach weapons.
I'd keep two whips, one normal and one lethal. Use the non-lethal one in towns to avoid serious injury or trouble if needed.
I think Whip Magus can work well for a bad touch Magus; at least once you can get Improved Whip Mastery and Combat Reflexes so you can play lion tamer. Work with the non-lethal damage - use Rimed Frostbite as your bad touch spell of choice and take the Enforcer feat.
I also think that a whip wielding Spire Defender 7 / Cleric of Calistria 3 is a wonderful (well, relative to the average MT anyhow) and flavourful entry into Mystic Theurge.
Whips qualify for Slashing Grace without needing any Swashbuckler levels.
Just throwing that out there.
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Frostbite spell + Rime Metamagic + Enforcer feat + Cruel Whip =
Fatigued (-2 strength and dexterity, cannot run or charge)
Shaken (-2 attack rolls, saving throws, skill and ability checks)
Sickened (-2 attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws, skill and ability checks)
Entangled (Half speed, cannot run or charge, -2 attack rolls, -4 dexterity, and casters need concentration checks)
Altogether:
-6 attack rolls,
-2 damage rolls,
-2 strength,
-6 dexterity,
-4 saving throws,
-4 skill and ability checks
With only 2 attacks (Cruel weapon only Sickens a Shaken target). 1 attack if you don't care about Sickening (Bladebound Whips can't even get the Cruel Enchantment, so 1 attack for them is sufficient).
Since you Threaten out to 30 feat with Enlarge Person and a whip (40 if you include the Long Arm spell and the Lunge feat) it's pretty easy to lay siege to the battlefield from relative comfort. Anyone getting close to you will provoke MULTIPLE Attacks of Opportunity = more damage.
If you wanted to, you could even add Dazing Metamagic, to stop them from doing anything, and Shatter Defenses, to make them flatfooted against your attacks (perfect for a Kensai, who adds INT to damage against flatfooted targets and gets free EWP and Weapon Focus at 1st level).
It's ungodly feat intensive, and pretty much crumbles against undead or anything else immune to nonlethal damage, but by golly when it works, it's a thing of beauty.
Plus, you can combine your delicious Kensai Superior Reflexes (INT to # of AoOps) with Combat Reflexes + Opportune Parry and Riposte (Flamboyant Arcana, which lets you take Arcane Deed for Precise Strike and Evasive later) and parry every attack the opponent throws at -6 to the roll. It's possible to have everything running as a Kensai by level 13, thanks to some Magus Bonus Feats. Did I mention that's also the level you get access to Greater Bladed Dash? Yeah, life is good for the Whip Magus.
At that point, you are basically untouchable and do a tremendous amount of damage. Still, you have to endure a lot of suck to get up to that level. Levels 1-3 (earliest point you can get Whip Mastery) especially suck. You can't even Spellstrike until Level 2, so it's best to just twiddle your thumbs for level 1.
If your GM allows you to pick and choose from the list of Variant abilities (as opposed to rolling a d100 for them), then Tiefling is easily the best choice for a Kensai Magus.
Even if you have to burn your level 1 feat on Fiendish Heritage, it's worth it for a free +2 INT.
Otherwise, yeah, a human can get the necessary feats a lot quicker, and thus suck a lot less in the beginning.
I'm rather curious as to what the story of such a character would be.
When I made such a Whip Master Magus, I basically used the picture of Nathan Graves, from Castlevania: Circle of the Moon (my first Castlevania game). Pretty much any Belmont would suffice, especially since the Legendary Vampire Killer could basically act as your Black Blade.
Hell, you could even do a little ritual to unlock it's full power, like non Belmonts have to, at level 3, when it actually becomes your black blade.
That said, the loss of an Arcana is painful, especially with the Kensai also costing you one. Flamboyant Arcana + Arcane Deed (2) + Arcane Accuracy are all pretty much necessary to any Kensai Magi, plus SpellShield and stuff like Ghost Blade, Bane Blade, Reflection, Spell Blending etc. Pretty much guarantees that you'll need the Extra Arcana feat, and you're stretched tightly for feats as it is.
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I made an ogre fighter big-bad who specialized in a flaming scorpion whip for a recent game. He was pretty neat (though not quite a magus, so I'm not sure how applicable this is to your thread...) and was relatively effective, though my players used excellent tactics and thus minimized his ability to dish out the damage.
He used a sword in his offhand and fished for AoOs with his whip/trips.
In hindsight I sorta wish I would've picked magus instead of fighter.
One thing that is a big drawback about the whip is that you provoke AoOs with your whip and you don't threaten any squares with it without this feat chain but AoOs aren't necessarily the magus' best tool anyway.
I think a whip-build magus has a lot of potential for awesome. Near-guaranteed trips/disarms with TrueStrike at the right moment could be a game-changer.
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Frostbite spell + Rime Metamagic + Enforcer feat + Cruel Whip =
Fatigued (-2 strength and dexterity, cannot run or charge)
Shaken (-2 attack rolls, saving throws, skill and ability checks)
Sickened (-2 attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws, skill and ability checks)
Entangled (Half speed, cannot run or charge, -2 attack rolls, -4 dexterity, and casters need concentration checks)Altogether:
-6 attack rolls,
-2 damage rolls,
-2 strength,
-6 dexterity,
-4 saving throws,
-4 skill and ability checksWith only 2 attacks (Cruel weapon only Sickens a Shaken target). 1 attack if you don't care about Sickening (Bladebound Whips can't even get the Cruel Enchantment, so 1 attack for them is sufficient).
Since you Threaten out to 30 feat with Enlarge Person and a whip (40 if you include the Long Arm spell and the Lunge feat) it's pretty easy to lay siege to the battlefield from relative comfort. Anyone getting close to you will provoke MULTIPLE Attacks of Opportunity = more damage.
If you wanted to, you could even add Dazing Metamagic, to stop them from doing anything, and Shatter Defenses, to make them flatfooted against your attacks (perfect for a Kensai, who adds INT to damage against flatfooted targets and gets free EWP and Weapon Focus at 1st level).
It's ungodly feat intensive, and pretty much crumbles against undead or anything else immune to nonlethal damage, but by golly when it works, it's a thing of beauty.
Plus, you can combine your delicious Kensai Superior Reflexes (INT to # of AoOps) with Combat Reflexes + Opportune Parry and Riposte (Flamboyant Arcana, which lets you take Arcane Deed for Precise Strike and Evasive later) and parry every attack the opponent throws at -6 to the roll. It's possible to have everything running as a Kensai by level 13, thanks to some Magus Bonus Feats. Did I mention that's also the level you get access to Greater Bladed Dash? Yeah, life is good for the Whip Magus.
At that point, you are basically untouchable and do a tremendous amount of...
My PFS character takes that and raises you Brow Gasher, as well as Vampiric Strike in a Spell-Stored Whip, and a new favorite of mine, Riving Strike for another -2 to saves vs spells and spell-like abilities when using Arcane Strike. http://paizo.com/people/FreyaArceana
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Wand Wielder Arcana + Wand of True Strike. 50 True Strikes for 750 gp, used to drive CMB checks to ungodly high levels... Remember you don't need the improved feats to use a Combat maneuver, especially if you are out of your opponents reach. Things like Longarm and Enlarge can drive your reach to phenomenal levels...
I was going to suggest the same, but as a personal spell, I don't believe you can source wands of true strike.
If you can, then definitely this.